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Old
05-29-2010, 07:05 PM
  #226
etherialone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
Yes because your example is the exact same thing as what we're talking about, isn't it? I can tell you just like arguing for arguments sake so I'm going to leave this one alone. You just don't get it.

And while it may be your opinion that he made a mistake trading Cammy to get Teubert, I don't see how you can make that judgement call already when Teubert hasn't even played one NHL game yet, and just finished his last year of Juniors THIS YEAR. Basically, you're proving my original point by thinking you already know Teubert is a bust and has no chance of ever being equal to or better than Cammy. Glad I don't live in your world.
Now this is just getting sad.

I don't know if Tuebert will or won't make it in the NHL but, if you go through every post that I have ever made about CT all that I have ever said is that to equal the value of the deal made to get him, he will have to become an amazing player.

I think *for the record* that he has a better than average shot at making the NHL and being a good player based on how he has performed in the several major tournaments that he has played in and the fact that he has been invited to play in so many of them.

MC was proven to be an excellent young NHL caliber player and has gone on to prove that since he has left us, that isn't any secret.

My knowing/saying that has absolutely nothing to do with what I think of Tuebert and I know that is obvious for most people who post here.

However, for TC to turn out to be of the same value of MC he is going to have to be a top 3 pairing dman in my opinion based on the success that MC had at the time of the deal and has gone on to prove and eclipse since he left. (which as I have said is fine, players leave teams for a myriad of reasons, I only hate it when they are given away for less than what they are worth)


I don't know nor have I ever claimed to have any inside information or knowledge of anything outside of the scope of available information and my personal experience.

Your silly point was that you hated how people come in here pretending to know everything, making you yourself sound like a hypocrite (because, ya see, that statement in itself is hypocritical).

I haven't done anything like that, all that I have done is post my opinion. I don't think that it has any significant value over most anyone else that posts here and often is of less value than than some.

As far as your arguing statement well skippy, the only poster that I am "arguing" with is you so I can't see where there is any validity in your statement.

And as far as you living in my world well, judging by what you have posted in this thread all I can say is that unfortunately, we both actually have to live in the exact same world and worse, we are fans of the same team.

I can live with it.

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05-29-2010, 07:10 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
Again, do you know FOR SURE DL could have gotten more for Cammy? Are you POSITIVE he didn't try to trade him at the deadline before? Maybe he did and the return was worse? Maybe he thought he had a legit chance to re-sign him? You don't know what goes on behind close doors, please stop acting like you listen to all of DL's conversations and know exactly what happened...
Do YOU know FOR SURE DL COULDN'T have gotten more for him?

Are you POSITIVE he DID try to trade him at the deadline before?

Maybe he did and the return was BETTER but he decided to wait?

Maybe he knew he didn't want to RE-SIGN him.

Quit acting like you know what DL is doing.

Nobody who posts here "KNOWS" what goes on behind closed door and I can't think of anyone who posts here who claims to so quit trying to accuse people of garbage that only YOU seem to think that I and according to your first response "EVERYONE" else is doing?

NK?


Last edited by etherialone: 05-29-2010 at 07:51 PM.
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05-29-2010, 07:23 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Do YOU know FOR SURE DL COULDN'T have gotten more for him?

Are you POSITIVE he DID try to trade him at the deadline before?

Maybe he did and the return was BETTER but he decided to wait?

Maybe he knew he didn't want to RE-SIGN him.

Quit acting like you know what DL is doing.

Nobody who posts here "KNOWS" what goes on behind closed door and I can't think of anyone who posts here who claims to so quit trying to accuse people of garbage that only YOU seem to think that I and according to your first response "EVERYONE" are doing?

NK?
For one, never have I ever said that I know anything as fact nor have I ever made a statement indicating that I know anything as fact. And if you really don't think, when someone says "DL made a mistake because he DIDN'T trade Cammalleri at the deadline because he WOULD HAVE gotten more for him" or anything along those lines they are stating it as fact then you are about as smart as they are. What part of " DL could have gotten more at the deadline" isn't stated as a fact? If they said "I THINK DL could have gotten more at the deadline", that's stated as opinion and a whole different scenario. But that is not the case and not what I was commenting on originally.

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05-29-2010, 07:26 PM
  #229
etherialone
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
How can that not be read as fact? You are asking everyone to accept that it was a terrible mistake.

Dean has made a lot of mistakes, I've talked about most of them in the past, but I don't think that Cammy is a $6 million player. I've spent too much time already talking about Cammy, so this will be it.

I think that giving Cloutier an extension before he even played a game with the Kings was a terrible mistake. Keeping Bernier in the AHL all of last season was a terrible mistake, it cost the Kings a 2nd round series. Not getting a replacement for Jones at the trade deadline was a terrible mistake and getting Halpern was a complete waste of assets.

Not going hard after Tippett was a mistake, he probably didn't want a 3rd coach in 3 years, but Tippett was already familiar with the organization and is a much better coach than Murray.


On topic:
Do you think that Frolov is a $5 million player? That is what is currently being rumored, are we going to have to endure more threads in three years about how Dean let Frolov walk for nothing? Isn't that worst than what Dean got for Cammy? Especially if Dean knew that he wasn't going to sign him anyways

Well because I said it doesn't make it a fact and isn't it assumed that all any of us are ever capable of doing here is posting our opinions? I mean, I didn't say "it's a fact that DL made a terrible mistake". I said "*In my opinion*". I prefaced what I said specifically that it was "my opinion" and therefore it cannot be a fact nor can I see how it could ever be mistaken as one (since I even said it was an opinion).

We both agree that MC wasn't worth his current $6m per salary but that isn't my position either. My position is that we didn't receive fair value for MC in my opinion. I would add that it wouldn't likely according to media gossip and the rest at the time have cost us $6m to sign him but who knows.

Hey, we also agree that DL has made several other mistakes.

As to Frolov I can't imagine him being a $5m player today and have said in this thread that I think he is worth between $3.5 to the low $4m per depending on length of contract etc.

The thing with Frolov is that *in my opinion* it is a different situation. We were nowhere near being a contender when DL happy fluffly bunnies and kittens playing with yarn while puppys lick our faces let MC go for next to nothing.

I don't know if we will have to endure more posts about it but they *in my opinion* would be almost without any real merit save that they both were talented players who aren't on the team anymore (while I don't like the deal, MC did become part of a trade so while little value in my opinion was received for him in my opinion the situation between frolov in my opinion and MC in my opinion are different things in my opinion

Frolov was in my opinion too critical a part of our team making the playoffs and then it was too late to try and deal him away (along with our first round pick to move up a few spots in the draft ).

Oh, in my opinion

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05-29-2010, 07:40 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
For one, never have I ever said that I know anything as fact nor have I ever made a statement indicating that I know anything as fact. And if you really don't think, when someone says "DL made a mistake because he DIDN'T trade Cammalleri at the deadline because he WOULD HAVE gotten more for him" or anything along those lines they are stating it as fact then you are about as smart as they are. What part of " DL could have gotten more at the deadline" isn't stated as a fact? If they said "I THINK DL could have gotten more at the deadline", that's stated as opinion and a whole different scenario. But that is not the case and not what I was commenting on originally.
Can you show me where I have said that I know anything as a fact or where I have ever made a statement indicating that I know anything to be a fact? I mean really, can you? I bet you can't even come close to it without also seeing where I have said something to the effect that it is an opinion.

I can show postings of mine where I have said "in my opinion" but to be entirely truthful, I believe that ALL posts are only EVER capable of being OPINIONS and so I take them for what they are worth, simply opinions.

That might be where you are getting hung up, this is a public hockey forum and NOT a forum for people who work for the Kings (though I would imagine that they are welcomed) or the NHL specifically.

The reason I point this out is to help you understand that nobody posting here is doing anything other than giving their opinion and sometimes they might feel strongly about it but rarely is anything posted over more than that.

Of course, this is just my own opinion and it is only in reference to this ridiculous weeing contest that we are having. So if a poster says "the kings lost in the first round" that actually is a fact.

If a poster says that the reason that we lost is due to a magical unicorn that only Quick could see is the reason that we lost out to Vancouver then that would be an opinion.

If a poster says "I know that it was all Jones' fault that we lost the series due to his coughing up the puck all the time" that again is an opinion. That poster just has a very pointed perspective as what they thought happened but it doesn't mean that they are trying to act like they know "exactly what DL was doing" or anything else.

It just means that it is their own opinion on what happened.

Your "argument" regarding your responses TOTALLY CONTRADICT WHAT YOU SAID AT THE BEGINNING OF YOUR POST and the sad thing is that you simply can't see it.

So that's all I have for ya tantrum, this is so truly off topic that if you want to continue, just send me a pm.

Otherwise I am just going to have think that you just like arguing with people and ignore your posts.

Oh, unless you want to bring up something on topic that is.

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05-29-2010, 07:48 PM
  #231
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Would this lineup make you forget about Cammy?


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05-29-2010, 08:03 PM
  #232
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I really have already forgotten about the MC deal other than as a cautionary tale in my opinion.

That line up is close to exceptional for my money. I would like to see someone other than Stoll as our second line center but who at this point I couldn't say. I also think that if we are could add a talented Dman like Martin we would have a ridiculously stacked D and I would likely simply fall into a coma the day it happened as I have waited for so long to see us have a great D that my hair has gone from thick and black to thinish and salt/pepper (that is what hair I haven't yanked out over the years).

Though truth be told I would rather have Hammy over Martin but I wouldn't even complain in the slightest if we had him.

I bet a deal could be made where Stoll and one of our young stud D prospects (if we sign Martin etc to a contract that will take up a space and I think might make one of our young d prospects available for a deal) to bring in a solid 2nd line center.

Though, ya know I gag a little saying this but I have mentioned it before, Jokinen is a ufa and there are allot of Flame fans who would bring him back for a reduced salary. I think he might be an alright fit for us at the number two spot and would likely (maybe?) sign in the mid $3 range.

Other than that I think that we become a true threat to make an honest run at the cup next year.

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05-29-2010, 08:06 PM
  #233
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Oh, and I would play Lewis instead of Cliche but that is based on speed and preference more than an absolute must sort of thing.

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05-29-2010, 08:15 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Oh, and I would play Lewis instead of Cliche but that is based on speed and preference more than an absolute must sort of thing.
The fourth line is pretty much interchangable since most will make the same money. Lewis should make the same as Cliche, etc.

I would rather keep Stoll, he is great on faceoffs and already knows the system. It gives the Kings a chance to see if Schenn could take the role from him when his contract is up. Dean can look for a #2 center next off season.

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05-29-2010, 08:23 PM
  #235
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Yep on the fourth liner.

Yep on the Stoll 2nd line too, I not as sold on him playing there but it is next to impossible to quantify what sort of an impact that a player like Kovy would have on our overall team scoring so Stoll might be an acceptable fit.

I can't say why but the idea of him as our second C just makes me uneasy though I don't really have an actual set of reasons why.

If we got Martin and Kovy and could keep JJ, DD and Simmonds etc then I would think that we would be as solid a team as we could be for awhile.

I do want to say that I am a diehard opponent of trying to build a team by signing over priced ufa's and or dealing away any of our youth but I am having a really hard time seeing us move forward from this past season if we don't.

I was hoping that we would have at least one top six prospect and one top pairing D ready to step up by now but that is sort of a best case scenario.

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05-29-2010, 08:45 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
Where did you come to that conclusion? Like another poster on here says, "Link Please!!"

Kovalchuk is not a King yet, correct. Most people would drive him from the airport and let him **** their wives.

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05-29-2010, 09:10 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Would this lineup make you forget about Cammy?

Not really, since you have absolutely no cap space left over for injuries or deadline acquistions.

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05-29-2010, 09:15 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Not really, since you have absolutely no cap space left over for injuries or deadline acquistions.
Then carry 22 players and have $1.5 million available. Also, you can go over the cap with injured players. Plus I went high in the cap hits with Kovalchuk and Martin to show that it is possible. They could easily sign for $0.5-1 million less combined.

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05-29-2010, 09:21 PM
  #239
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Then carry 22 players and have $1.5 million available. Also, you can go over the cap with injured players. Plus I went high in the cap hits with Kovalchuk and Martin to show that it is possible. They could easily sign for $0.5-1 million less combined.
Bad idea. Ask the Calgary Flames.

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05-29-2010, 09:35 PM
  #240
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Bad idea. Ask the Calgary Flames.
The Kings only had 22 on the roster for a lot of last season.

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05-29-2010, 09:42 PM
  #241
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I dunno, I thought it was an outline to show people like me that we could actually sign Kovalchuk and a dman upgrade and still put out a competitive team under the cap.

hey DS25, how about putting together a roster based on what we have signed (include our rfa's) along with our rookie call ups as a comparison.

I know its been done and in the end we will be close to $16m under the cap and of course if it were to happen I can't see us competing for a cup but maybe a roster could be fleshed out that might prove the point further.

Its allot to ask so if your not into it that's cool, just a thought.

Oh, and instead of Martin at $5 you could simply replace him with D Siedenberg at around the $3,5m mark and we would still have an amazing D and another couple of mil to play with.

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05-30-2010, 12:51 AM
  #242
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Lets just save the money in case AEG needs it someday to develop more land around STAPLES. We all know it never helps to just through money at a problem right?

I mean just look at those two teams that are in CAP HELL. They are really screwed now that they made it all the way to the FINALS!

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05-30-2010, 01:58 AM
  #243
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Hey, curious Leafs poster here

Just thought I'd show up and ask because as it seems to have been rumoured Frolov is done as a King. Has there been any speculation or rumours as to where he might end up? I really couldn't give two ***** if he ends up a Leaf, I'm just asking because I am interested in seeing how this offseason unfolds for all teams not just the leafs.

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05-30-2010, 02:21 AM
  #244
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In my personal opinion, Fro may very well be a Leaf. BB knows his game, and in general, it's good. So...

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05-30-2010, 10:08 AM
  #245
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I could see Frolov end up with the Islanders.

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05-30-2010, 01:13 PM
  #246
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I was sort of set that he would become a rag or a devil but ever since people started banging on about the wings it sure has made me start seeing them as a natural fit.

He would actually be a great player in their system and could be a key ingredient to their remainng one of the biggest pain in the tails around for another season or two anyways.

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05-30-2010, 02:55 PM
  #247
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Frolov will head to Anahiem. He likes it in L.A, The Ducks will have the space and need secondary scoring

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05-30-2010, 08:14 PM
  #248
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Frolov will head to Anahiem. He likes it in L.A, The Ducks will have the space and need secondary scoring
That's fine.

They can have Fro because we'll eventually end up with Ryan.

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05-31-2010, 07:30 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
I mean just look at those two teams that are in CAP HELL. They are really screwed now that they made it all the way to the FINALS!
quoted for truth.

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05-31-2010, 08:08 AM
  #250
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How is $8 million almost double $6 million?

If Kovalchuk he was all about money, he would still be in Atlanta with the largest contract in NHL history. Do you think that Lou and Lemaire are lying about Kovalchuk's character?
Now that was hot. Goes from 6 to 8 and yes, my math is bad, but then you turn around and say that Wads offered him the largest contract in NHL history. Let's be honest here. We really don't have a clue what he will sign for.

Haven't seen those quotes before. I respect those two hockey minds very much with what they've been able to do. Thanks for posting them.

Tantrum, I don't have a link, but as I've mentioned my family is from GA and FL so I also root for them and have watched a lot of games. Games. And he gets taken out of his game so easily sometimes. You frustrate him, and you win. He's shutdown. That's where this is coming from.

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