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Old
05-22-2010, 10:45 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pukboy5kroner View Post
The Matthias issue seems to be more of a coaching decision (the same coach Rochester seems unhappy with, Groulx) than anything.
And yet, you can't really blame the coach either from his POV. Any coach is going to put established AHL scorers like Taffe, Taylor and Johnson above a young unproven guy like Matthias. The problem is Matthias was blocked. If we stay with Roch., it's likely to be more of the same for our prospects in the future. They are always going to want 5+ vets on the roster.

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05-22-2010, 10:56 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
And yet, you can't really blame the coach either from his POV. Any coach is going to put established AHL scorers like Taffe, Taylor and Johnson above a young unproven guy like Matthias. The problem is Matthias was blocked. If we stay with Roch., it's likely to be more of the same for our prospects in the future. They are always going to want 5+ vets on the roster.
Blocked by the Rochester organization? I guess so, in that they care about winning (therefore they recruit AHL vets). However, that desire was something the Panthers originally seemed to like about the affiliation -- in that it doesn't encourage a spirit which easily accepts failure, and forces players to earn their spots wherever they are playing. I'm with Zero G on this one, in that certain needs/demands are a good thing.

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05-22-2010, 11:22 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pukboy5kroner View Post
Blocked by the Rochester organization? I guess so, in that they care about winning (therefore they recruit AHL vets). However, that desire was something the Panthers originally seemed to like about the affiliation -- in that it doesn't encourage a spirit which easily accepts failure, and forces players to earn their spots wherever they are playing. I'm with Zero G on this one, in that certain needs/demands are a good thing.
Rochester is a great AHL-franchise, a winner, and I was doing backflips when I heard we were going to be affiliate... And I loved it, and I wanted it to continue for a lot of years... And I think those demands are good ones too.

Those stupid comments ? Stupid people making them, people who have no clue of how you do business... I'm still laughing at that article.

Well I guess... How do you say ?... Is it ?...

Be-Bye Rochester ?!?

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05-22-2010, 12:00 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pukboy5kroner View Post
Blocked by the Rochester organization? I guess so, in that they care about winning (therefore they recruit AHL vets). However, that desire was something the Panthers originally seemed to like about the affiliation -- in that it doesn't encourage a spirit which easily accepts failure, and forces players to earn their spots wherever they are playing. I'm with Zero G on this one, in that certain needs/demands are a good thing.
I'm all for an AHL team that cares about winning, but I think it would be better to find a happy medium, rather than stick with Rochester which is at one extreme. I think Buffalo found a much better situation in Portland. They are a good team down there now and they are winning with their prospects, not with 8 AHL vets on their roster.

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05-22-2010, 02:10 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
I'm all for an AHL team that cares about winning, but I think it would be better to find a happy medium, rather than stick with Rochester which is at one extreme. I think Buffalo found a much better situation in Portland. They are a good team down there now and they are winning with their prospects, not with 8 AHL vets on their roster.
I agree that a situation somewhere between the San Antonio affiliation (which was pretty pathetic) and the Rochester one would be preferable. As to the 8 AHL vets, I thought a bit of that made up for how often Florida calls up its prospects (complaints from years past), yet having York, Taffe, Mink, and Johnston up front was a bit much.

The question as to who was supposed to pay players is ridiculous. If Florida was to be responsible, something should have been put into writing. In years past, Florida loaned the Amerks players at half the normal dollar cost.

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05-22-2010, 07:38 PM
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Rangers and Rochester to exchange Vows?

It appears the Rangers and Amerks are wooing each other.

http://bizofhockey.com/index.php?opt...news&Itemid=51

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05-22-2010, 08:19 PM
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I don't know how the Rangers could be "unhappy with their relationship with the Wolfpack" considering they own the Wolfpack. The lease is supposedly up in Hartford with the building which is what they're unhappy about. Another issue is that the Rangers own their own AHL franchise, so would they have it go dormant if they partnered with another franchise like the Amerks? The guy who wrote that supposedly "heard" something and is trying to break the story, we'll have to wait and see if he's right or not.

Supposedly there's a ton of closet Rangers fans in New York state that never show it and for some odd reason it's who everyone wants.

Not so sure though how people think Glen Sather is going to work miracles.

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05-24-2010, 10:39 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
And yet, you can't really blame the coach either from his POV. Any coach is going to put established AHL scorers like Taffe, Taylor and Johnson above a young unproven guy like Matthias. The problem is Matthias was blocked. If we stay with Roch., it's likely to be more of the same for our prospects in the future. They are always going to want 5+ vets on the roster.
with regard to matthias, we really don't know what organization's priority was for him. has anyone considered the fact that sexton and deboer *wanted* him to get that type of work (e.g. checking) when he was spending time with rochester?? nobody's even considered it.

on the subject, i heard BU sports psychologist adam naylor speak this weekend here at a seminar for coaches and one of his slides had a graphic diagramming how "play to learn" gradually becomes "play to win" as kids develop from mites to pros. while talking about the slide, he brought up a comment made to him by a well known coach about his time working in the AHL which was something along the lines of "even though the kids were now pros, my primary job with that club was NOT to win, but to prepare this kids for their careers with the big club". JM brought in groulx, a competent and successful junior coach, as a compliment to deboer to develop the kids down there and though he certainly has a tough job balancing the demands of both clubs, i would hope his approach toward guys like matthias is based more on his responsibility to prepare kids for the parent club which brought him in than on the demands of the amerks.

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05-24-2010, 02:23 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
with regard to matthias, we really don't know what organization's priority was for him. has anyone considered the fact that sexton and deboer *wanted* him to get that type of work (e.g. checking) when he was spending time with rochester?? nobody's even considered it.

on the subject, i heard BU sports psychologist adam naylor speak this weekend here at a seminar for coaches and one of his slides had a graphic diagramming how "play to learn" gradually becomes "play to win" as kids develop from mites to pros. while talking about the slide, he brought up a comment made to him by a well known coach about his time working in the AHL which was something along the lines of "even though the kids were now pros, my primary job with that club was NOT to win, but to prepare this kids for their careers with the big club". JM brought in groulx, a competent and successful junior coach, as a compliment to deboer to develop the kids down there and though he certainly has a tough job balancing the demands of both clubs, i would hope his approach toward guys like matthias is based more on his responsibility to prepare kids for the parent club which brought him in than on the demands of the amerks.
Great call! I agree, IMO it showed! Great post.
Anyone near these levels should be able to direct the lil rubber disk toward the net...to learn to do it while someone is trying to batter you is another...


Anyway, everyone agrees that going public isn't the best thing to do...
has to stop, both ends have to hold their side of the deal.
What I don't understand, is if it's an individual that makes certain decisions, gets paid to dress up and do so...not the team logo/all hired together in conference...then why is it like "Panthers/Amerks May Split" instead of "So and so promised certain things and HE didn't deliver..so dealing with HIM is out of the question, etc..."?
Like is it the owner being a sketchy businessman?
(Not accusing in anyway, just for sake of saying so...)Does it not otherwise give the impression that it isn't what it's said to be, but like the Panthers are too embarassing of a market to be tied to? ...given that nobody that walks around the BAC gives a flying ____ about the product...but the face painting, etc...

Wouldn't the Panthers want to be able to keep tied to SOMETHING with prestige that has nothing to do with an advertising auto store?

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05-24-2010, 02:49 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
with regard to matthias, we really don't know what organization's priority was for him. has anyone considered the fact that sexton and deboer *wanted* him to get that type of work (e.g. checking) when he was spending time with rochester?? nobody's even considered it.

on the subject, i heard BU sports psychologist adam naylor speak this weekend here at a seminar for coaches and one of his slides had a graphic diagramming how "play to learn" gradually becomes "play to win" as kids develop from mites to pros. while talking about the slide, he brought up a comment made to him by a well known coach about his time working in the AHL which was something along the lines of "even though the kids were now pros, my primary job with that club was NOT to win, but to prepare this kids for their careers with the big club". JM brought in groulx, a competent and successful junior coach, as a compliment to deboer to develop the kids down there and though he certainly has a tough job balancing the demands of both clubs, i would hope his approach toward guys like matthias is based more on his responsibility to prepare kids for the parent club which brought him in than on the demands of the amerks.
And thats where this all comes to a head and the reason why the Amerks and Panthers will separate after the agreement ends next season. The Amerks think that the team should be coached to win first and expect that preparation comes at the same time. In reality it never truly works that way and often coaching to win comes at the expense of developing those players. The primary focus of a minor league franchise like an AHL team should be what that coach referred to and not what the Amerks want.

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05-24-2010, 05:59 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
with regard to matthias, we really don't know what organization's priority was for him. has anyone considered the fact that sexton and deboer *wanted* him to get that type of work (e.g. checking) when he was spending time with rochester?? nobody's even considered it.

on the subject, i heard BU sports psychologist adam naylor speak this weekend here at a seminar for coaches and one of his slides had a graphic diagramming how "play to learn" gradually becomes "play to win" as kids develop from mites to pros. while talking about the slide, he brought up a comment made to him by a well known coach about his time working in the AHL which was something along the lines of "even though the kids were now pros, my primary job with that club was NOT to win, but to prepare this kids for their careers with the big club". JM brought in groulx, a competent and successful junior coach, as a compliment to deboer to develop the kids down there and though he certainly has a tough job balancing the demands of both clubs, i would hope his approach toward guys like matthias is based more on his responsibility to prepare kids for the parent club which brought him in than on the demands of the amerks.
I strongly doubt that. After Matthias was sent down after we got back from Finland, DeBoer even said that he wanted Matthias to have a very productive season in Rochester first before he comes up to the big club, and that's one of the reasons he was sent down. Putting him on the 3rd and 4th lines would be contradictory to that. If that was what Groulx was trying to accomplish with Matthias, then he should have been playing him in the top 6.

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And thats where this all comes to a head and the reason why the Amerks and Panthers will separate after the agreement ends next season. The Amerks think that the team should be coached to win first and expect that preparation comes at the same time. In reality it never truly works that way and often coaching to win comes at the expense of developing those players. The primary focus of a minor league franchise like an AHL team should be what that coach referred to and not what the Amerks want.
Bingo.

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05-24-2010, 09:12 PM
  #37
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I strongly doubt that. After Matthias was sent down after we got back from Finland, DeBoer even said that he wanted Matthias to have a very productive season in Rochester first before he comes up to the big club, and that's one of the reasons he was sent down. Putting him on the 3rd and 4th lines would be contradictory to that. If that was what Groulx was trying to accomplish with Matthias, then he should have been playing him in the top 6.
it's just a theory/thought exercise but, having said that, i'll defend it a little bit (why not? nothing else to do these days ). first of all, how do you define productive? maybe that's a +15 with 30 pts? (i.e., maybe it's no pts quantity). also, (and you'd have a better answer here, seeing more of their games) because of the veteran depth, i would assume that he wasn't playing with career AHL checking line guys every night, even on the 3rd line. finally, it's possible that what they wanted from matthias changed after the point pete said that (before coming back from finland).

unlikely? maybe. possible? i think so.

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05-25-2010, 06:53 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
it's just a theory/thought exercise but, having said that, i'll defend it a little bit (why not? nothing else to do these days ). first of all, how do you define productive? maybe that's a +15 with 30 pts? (i.e., maybe it's no pts quantity). also, (and you'd have a better answer here, seeing more of their games) because of the veteran depth, i would assume that he wasn't playing with career AHL checking line guys every night, even on the 3rd line. finally, it's possible that what they wanted from matthias changed after the point pete said that (before coming back from finland).

unlikely? maybe. possible? i think so.
Pete said he wanted Matthias to have a big offensive season in Rochester. I just put productive in there, but it's kind of the same thing. In the middle of the season with injuries and callups, Matthias was playing with poor linemates like Sweetland, Steiner, and Calla. He was unable to show anything playing with those guys. Even at different points in the season, he was playing on the 4th line with enforcers. Groulx sometimes put Taylor, Taffe, and Johnson all at center above Matthias. It wasn't really until just before his last callup to the Panthers, and in the playoffs for the Amerks that Matthias finally got to play with good linemates. The Amerks were healthy and Groulx switched Taffe to wing for the playoffs. Then Matthias' line really took off and seems it became the No.1 line. Most of the season in Rochester however was a waste for Matthias. He didn't learn anything playing with enforcers and AHL scrubs.

Why would what they wanted from Matthias change after he got sent down? What they wanted makes sense, they wanted him to have a big offensive year in the pros and get his confidence up before he came up into a bottom 6 role in the NHL. I don't see how playing him on the 3rd and 4th lines in Rochester benefited him. He's already a good defensive player. In his last year of junior, he was touted as the best two-way player in the CHL, which was a big reason he made the WJC team for Canada that year. Groulx either caved in to the pressure put on by Amerks management or the Panthers for some reason deferred to the Amerks' desire to win first. I don't see why they'd want one of their top prospects playing with poor linemates and not producing much offensively.

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05-25-2010, 06:58 PM
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I don't think Tallon is very happy with Rochester at the moment based on this comment.


ON THE ROCHESTER SITUATION AND THEIR POSSIBLE FREE AGENCY IN 2010

"I will take care of that situation shortly. It was a shock to me, on my second day on job, to see that in paper. I don't do business in the newspaper.


http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapa...d-yzerman.html

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05-25-2010, 07:09 PM
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I don't think Tallon is very happy with Rochester at the moment based on this comment.


ON THE ROCHESTER SITUATION AND THEIR POSSIBLE FREE AGENCY IN 2010

"I will take care of that situation shortly. It was a shock to me, on my second day on job, to see that in paper. I don't do business in the newspaper.


http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapa...d-yzerman.html
I'm getting more and more excited about Tallon the more I read about our organization now. This man seems like he has a plan for success and he will deal with any situation that arrises in that path. This is what our organization needed, and needed very badly. We needed a hockey mind such as his, who will step in and take control over this mess, and I can't wait to see how things unfold come Draft day. Go get em' Tallon!

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05-25-2010, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
I don't think Tallon is very happy with Rochester at the moment based on this comment.


ON THE ROCHESTER SITUATION AND THEIR POSSIBLE FREE AGENCY IN 2010

"I will take care of that situation shortly. It was a shock to me, on my second day on job, to see that in paper. I don't do business in the newspaper.


http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapa...d-yzerman.html
HAHA! My freaking thoughts exactly. I just gained a lot more love for Tallon right there. The way that Amerks handled the situation was so amateurish and what Tallon just said speaks professionalism. Kudos to him.

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05-25-2010, 07:13 PM
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I think Kevin O has to take some of the blame for that article as well. It's not like the Amerks hounded him down and begged him to write an article about it. He definitely has an agenda. They weren't really smart to tell him all of that though, either.

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05-25-2010, 07:13 PM
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HAHA! My freaking thoughts exactly. I just gained a lot more love for Tallon right there. The way that Amerks handled the situation was so amateurish and what Tallon just said speaks professionalism. Kudos to him.
Couldn't agree more, and that they decided to do it on his 2nd day on the job, even more ridiculous. Really happy Tallon is on board.

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05-25-2010, 07:15 PM
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I think Kevin O has to take some of the blame for that article as well. It's not like the Amerks hounded him down and begged him to write an article about it. He definitely has an agenda. They weren't really smart to tell him all of that though, either.
Both parties are equally responsible, imo. You don't share that kind of information with a reporter, but he was foolish to report that on Tallon's 2nd day.

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05-26-2010, 08:55 AM
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I've never liked Kevin O. He's always seemed to have an agenda to me. His reporting is very mid grade if you ask me. He's a hockey fan who happens to have reporting credentials.

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05-27-2010, 11:42 AM
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I'm sort of convinced all of the local Rochester media has an agenda about getting a higher profile team so they can do more. Major league sports news sells more than minor leagues.

In defense of Kevin O, if the President of the team opens his mouth with this stuff of course its going to be reported. No journalist is going to sit on a story like that. Just like the Jamie Johnson news, when he talked openly it was reported.

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05-27-2010, 11:49 AM
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I'm sort of convinced all of the local Rochester media has an agenda about getting a higher profile team so they can do more. Major league sports news sells more than minor leagues.
I agree. Seems the owners want it too.

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In defense of Kevin O, if the President of the team opens his mouth with this stuff of course its going to be reported. No journalist is going to sit on a story like that. Just like the Jamie Johnson news, when he talked openly it was reported.
I don't disagree, but he does seem to have the same agenda you described above and doesn't even attempt to hide it one bit. I think the guy's an ass.

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05-27-2010, 04:01 PM
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I've never liked Kevin O. He's always seemed to have an agenda to me. His reporting is very mid grade if you ask me. He's a hockey fan who happens to have reporting credentials.
Correction - he's a homer who happens to have reporting credentials - there's a difference. He's very pro-Amerks and as touchy as their most die-hard fans.

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05-27-2010, 05:43 PM
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Pete said he wanted Matthias to have a big offensive season in Rochester. I just put productive in there, but it's kind of the same thing. In the middle of the season with injuries and callups, Matthias was playing with poor linemates like Sweetland, Steiner, and Calla. He was unable to show anything playing with those guys. Even at different points in the season, he was playing on the 4th line with enforcers. Groulx sometimes put Taylor, Taffe, and Johnson all at center above Matthias. It wasn't really until just before his last callup to the Panthers, and in the playoffs for the Amerks that Matthias finally got to play with good linemates. The Amerks were healthy and Groulx switched Taffe to wing for the playoffs. Then Matthias' line really took off and seems it became the No.1 line. Most of the season in Rochester however was a waste for Matthias. He didn't learn anything playing with enforcers and AHL scrubs.

Why would what they wanted from Matthias change after he got sent down? What they wanted makes sense, they wanted him to have a big offensive year in the pros and get his confidence up before he came up into a bottom 6 role in the NHL. I don't see how playing him on the 3rd and 4th lines in Rochester benefited him. He's already a good defensive player. In his last year of junior, he was touted as the best two-way player in the CHL, which was a big reason he made the WJC team for Canada that year. Groulx either caved in to the pressure put on by Amerks management or the Panthers for some reason deferred to the Amerks' desire to win first. I don't see why they'd want one of their top prospects playing with poor linemates and not producing much offensively.
ok, well-reasoned and you've seen/followed the amerks pretty closely this year so i'll take your word. that's would be disappointing, both of groulx and, more importantly sexton to allow such a thing to happen. i was trying to find a way around that

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06-01-2010, 07:25 AM
  #50
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So apparently the founder of the Hartford Whalers, Howard Baldwin, is trying to revive interest in bringing an NHL team back there. To me, I would love to see the Whaler's logo and jersey again. If the Rangers do want to change their affiliation to Rochester, I wonder how likely they would be to sell the Wolfpack franchise to Baldwin's Whalers Sports & Entertainment company. That would be a great situation to be apart of but not sure how willing they would be to use the Whalers name when its not associated with the NHL.

Source: http://www.masslive.com/mywideworld/..._hartford.html

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