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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Hockey Canada defends Crosby; IIHF deletes controversial article

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05-29-2010, 08:21 AM
  #651
Geric
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It's too bad Canada didn't lose in the Olympics - all of this would have been avoided. Because the US and Canada played for the Gold, North Americans are really cocky about international hockey.

I wonder if this sort of talk was happening in 2006. I'm thinking no.

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05-29-2010, 11:25 AM
  #652
RusskiyHockey
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Originally Posted by EricG View Post
It's too bad Canada didn't lose in the Olympics - all of this would have been avoided. Because the US and Canada played for the Gold, North Americans are really cocky about international hockey.

I wonder if this sort of talk was happening in 2006. I'm thinking no.
You're right. After 2006, Canada gave a damn and put in strong efforts with solid rosters at the next few World Championships, winning one gold and two silver.

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05-29-2010, 02:25 PM
  #653
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The IIHF can have their "world championships" during they playoffs I don't care but to call out our players for not attending is incredibly foolish. Bettman is right the IIHF doesn't respect the NHL schedule, they shouldn't expect to see many NHL players play in the WC. The players owe the IIHF nothing, I don't know where the IIHF get off thinking they are entitled to the NHL players. They don't don't pay them, they don't respect their schedules, they clearly don't understand how tough it is to play an NHL season and they criticize players who don't attend. I hope we continue to send worse and worse teams and that more players decline because of the way the IIHF treats the players. Good work Hockey Canada for sticking up for your athletes.

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05-29-2010, 07:05 PM
  #654
DoyleG
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
Bettman isn't conservative at all, he'd have hockey played on a beach if the owners were for it and it'd look like a money-maker. Bettman represents the NHL's interest in a) protecting its product and b) maximizing profits. This interest collides with the IIHF's interest in a) protecting its product and b) maximizing profits, simple as that.
Actually, the NHL has shown that its more concerned with the profits than the product. If what you had said was true, there would be no conflict between either as they would be on common ground. Bettman has been very conservative since his NHL is still isolationist compared to the NBA and MLB. He has shown no willingness to really work out an international transfer deal (compared to MLB) or to have a strong policy to have the NHL involved in the international game (as is the case of NBA).

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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
You see the same conflict in football between the top clubs and FIFA with the difference that the top clubs are actually part of FIFA and therefore bound by its rulings whereas the NHL is outside the IIHF and can thus pretty much ignore it for the most part. This of course has irked the IIHF for decades because they know the money in the NHL dwarfs the money in IIHF hockey by far.
Of course, you destroy your argument by using the FIFA example. FIFA's own influence on the club game is limited thanks to the individual national FA's, which are what the clubs actually report to. This is already seen by attempts by FIFA to regulate player movements and to come up with a uniform international calendar. All attempts have been resisted by the clubs with some addition help (UEFA in particular, who see FIFA control as a threat to their own business development).

In having the championships annually, the IIHF is rewarded with a constant revenue stream that FIFA doesn't have the benefit of. The NHL hates that because they can't bowl over the IIHF as the way clubs have done to FIFA. The NHL's position is more to the line of the NBA with relations to FIBA. The NBA really doesn't need the World Championships since it already has the Olympics (Which was the main goal of the NBA when they began to partner with FIBA). Yet, to drop it would hurt its ability to remain a top league as it would shut them out of overseas talent. Unlike Bettman, Stern has learned that being part of the international realm is more important than being a complainer like Bettman, even though such an agreement can be uncomfortable for the NBA.

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05-29-2010, 10:34 PM
  #655
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Originally Posted by GavinD80 View Post
Actually, the NHL has shown that its more concerned with the profits than the product. If what you had said was true, there would be no conflict between either as they would be on common ground. Bettman has been very conservative since his NHL is still isolationist compared to the NBA and MLB. He has shown no willingness to really work out an international transfer deal (compared to MLB) or to have a strong policy to have the NHL involved in the international game (as is the case of NBA).

Of course, you destroy your argument by using the FIFA example. FIFA's own influence on the club game is limited thanks to the individual national FA's, which are what the clubs actually report to. This is already seen by attempts by FIFA to regulate player movements and to come up with a uniform international calendar. All attempts have been resisted by the clubs with some addition help (UEFA in particular, who see FIFA control as a threat to their own business development).

In having the championships annually, the IIHF is rewarded with a constant revenue stream that FIFA doesn't have the benefit of. The NHL hates that because they can't bowl over the IIHF as the way clubs have done to FIFA. The NHL's position is more to the line of the NBA with relations to FIBA. The NBA really doesn't need the World Championships since it already has the Olympics (Which was the main goal of the NBA when they began to partner with FIBA). Yet, to drop it would hurt its ability to remain a top league as it would shut them out of overseas talent. Unlike Bettman, Stern has learned that being part of the international realm is more important than being a complainer like Bettman, even though such an agreement can be uncomfortable for the NBA.
The individual FAs are part of FIFA and thus bound by FIFA rulings in discipline matters, rules questions etc. and a possible ban from FIFA competitions in football is enough to bring any club in line. FIFA's position is institutionally very strong, hence they have been able to impose nonsense like the Club World Cup on the antagonistic clubs. The clubs have to abide on the face of things even if they sabotage it passively.

The NHL exists outside the institutional framework of the IIHF and has done very well within that situation primarily because it means they don't need to abide by IIHF decisions on rules or anything. You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that the NHL and IIHF product is the same, it isn't and anyone who has watched both European league hockey and the NHL knows that. Bettman has no responsibility to the sport of ice hockey as the IIHF would call it, his duty rests with NHL hockey. The reality of the situation is that the IIHF needs the NHL more than vice versa, hence the long courtship of the NHL on part of IIHF.

International talent has flocked to the NHL in spite of every player who signs a deal with a NHL team fully knowing that this means World Championships are likely not in the picture anymore. Why? Because players know that playing in the NHL is the pinnacle of hockey achievement and financially of course much more rewarding than any European league. The IIHF can't do anything about that really, they can just try to be nice to the NHL so the NHL may be nice to them.

The ball is really in the IIHF's court anyway, the NHL wouldn't move any part of their season for the sake of IIHF events. The IIHF can reform the World Champs to make them more appealing to the NHL and sorry to say it, to the average fan anywhere in the world. Outside of the 4-5 countries in Europe where hockey is huge, the IIHF game isn't exactly thriving and in the Czech Rep. and Slovakia the game is in trouble as well.

My hostility to the IIHF as a European is mostly based on the fact that the IIHF have always been idiots and the national federations are poorly run as well. I don't know why the NHL would want any part of it.

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06-02-2010, 10:08 AM
  #656
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Suck it up, Gary Bettman obviously is a extremely dishonest person. He have zero interest in this what so ever, especially not the players "well being", this is all about politics.

And the tools in this affair, thats you and your buddys who buys his talk about caring about the players well beings. Saying that it makes him emotional et c. roflmao.
On the other hand, you are buying the IIHF's talk about "patriotism" and "loving the game".

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Old
06-02-2010, 11:23 AM
  #657
therealdeal
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Originally Posted by RusskiyHockey View Post
You're right. After 2006, Canada gave a damn and put in strong efforts with solid rosters at the next few World Championships, winning one gold and two silver.
I don't think many of the Olympic guys went for one, and in the actual olympic year we didn't medal.

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