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Lombardi on Leafs Lunch June 1st, 2010

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06-02-2010, 03:09 PM
  #76
JDM
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Speaking of violating the CBA, I thought this was interesting from his Hammond interview:

"even though he’s a guy we intend to have here a long time, I don’t know what else I can get until I know what his number is. So that’s where it hangs over you. As a practical matter, we’ve had very preliminary discussions, but it’s awful hard to think we’re going to get this thing done here, ideally, before July 1 so that you know. I just don’t think it’s practical. I wish it was.”

Now technically, he isn't allowed to have negotiations before July 1 with Drew. Now we all know no one listens to this rule, and that really it only applies practically applies to SIGNING the contract, but I found it interesting that Lombardi basically said they have already talked a little and that he would like to have the contract hashed out prior to when he's supposed to be allowed to start talking about that contract.

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06-02-2010, 03:10 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Loktionov View Post
Well I haven't heard the NHLPA cry about Parise's, Browns, Jack Johnsons, Getzlafs, Perrys, Burrows, St. Louis, Savards, T. Kaberles, ... contracts,
did you?
Those players got what they deserved. I like how you throw in Johnson in there. Last I checked he hasn't proven anything in this league. Before he got his contract, he was still 'all hype'. Brown had what 2 years of NHL experience before he signed that deal. He wasn't going to be the highest paid 30 goal scorer in the league was he?

Doughty will have a choice of low years/high dollar or long term/low cap hit. Players tend to accept the security of having a long term deal in case of injury.

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06-02-2010, 03:11 PM
  #78
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Ofcourse the NHLPA will want Drew to get top dollars. However damacles, its not a foregone conclusion that Drew will listen or care. He can still sign whatever contract he wants. My guess is it will be somewhere in between a bargain and top dollar. Expensive but reasonable. He's not going to turn around and screw the Kings and hold out just because the NHLPA told him to. The only reason I could see Drew going that far would be if Dean tries to screw him first. And we can logically reason that he won't, given Kopi is the closest comparable.
Never said Drew was going to screw the Kings, I said he was going to ask for top dollar which he deserves. And to think or expect him to sign for peanuts is silly.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that Professional Athletes do care about how much money they make. It most instances it's all they care about.....

Now I would like to think Drew is different than other people. But I don't expect him to be. Like I said if Drew signs a very low Contract I would be shocked, and you can expect the NHLPA will not be happy. Not to mention other Defensive men around the league.


Wingers that score decent around the league right now are praying Kovi gets a huge contract....

I know people like to point to Kovi passing on that nice deal Atlanta was handing him. But wouldn't you pass knowing that your could go to a contender and still make 8 to 9 mill? Cause that's probably what he is going to get.


Last edited by damacles1156: 06-02-2010 at 03:23 PM.
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06-02-2010, 03:23 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Never said Drew was going to screw the Kings, I said he was going to ask for top dollar which he deserves. And to think or expect him to sign for peanuts is silly.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that Professional Athletes do care about how much money they make. It most instances it's all they care about.....

Now I would like to think Drew is different than other people. But I don't expect him to be.
I think he will be slightly different than most. Certainly different than Johnson, if you want to compare him to a current King.

I absolutely think he should get top dollar. I think he should get 7.5 for 10 years and that Lombardi should use that for everyone else as a comparable and a ceiling the way Detroit has used Lidstrom in that way.

Of course I would prefer him to sign for a ~5 cap hit, but I won't be surprised or butt hurt if he doesn't.

Of course athletes care about money, but you are also talking about a 20 year old whose head will likely spin at the thought of 5 or 6 million. It takes a particular kind of scum to sneeze at those numbers and demand more at such a young age. Drew is not that kind of scum. With regards to Drew, his childhood love of the Kings and Cinderella story he is living absolutely is a factor here. Its the "yeah, I could pay you X + Y, but if I pay you X only, I can go get this other player for you play with. You want to make more money or win more games?"

Its very relevant, and not all players (like I suspect about Johnson), are willing to listen to or care about those kinds of arguments, but my guess is that Drew will to a degree.

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06-02-2010, 03:26 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I think he will be slightly different than most. Certainly different than Johnson, if you want to compare him to a current King.

I absolutely think he should get top dollar. I think he should get 7.5 for 10 years and that Lombardi should use that for everyone else as a comparable and a ceiling the way Detroit has used Lidstrom in that way.

Of course I would prefer him to sign for a ~5 cap hit, but I won't be surprised or butt hurt if he doesn't.

Of course athletes care about money, but you are also talking about a 20 year old whose head will likely spin at the thought of 5 or 6 million. It takes a particular kind of scum to sneeze at those numbers and demand more at such a young age. Drew is not that kind of scum. With regards to Drew, his childhood love of the Kings and Cinderella story he is living absolutely is a factor here. Its the "yeah, I could pay you X + Y, but if I pay you X only, I can go get this other player for you play with. You want to make more money or win more games?"

Its very relevant, and not all players (like I suspect about Johnson), are willing to listen to or care about those kinds of arguments, but my guess is that Drew will to a degree.
That I agree with, Drew may be more willing to listen to reason. But Like I said I wouldn't expect him too. Although it would be nice for a change..

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06-02-2010, 03:28 PM
  #81
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Those players got what they deserved. I like how you throw in Johnson in there. Last I checked he hasn't proven anything in this league. Before he got his contract, he was still 'all hype'. Brown had what 2 years of NHL experience before he signed that deal. He wasn't going to be the highest paid 30 goal scorer in the league was he?

Doughty will have a choice of low years/high dollar or long term/low cap hit. Players tend to accept the security of having a long term deal in case of injury.
Johnson makes 1.4 mio $ <-> that is the same number that Cloutier made last year for "playin'" and about 1.3mio $ less then what Preissing gets on year. Brown made 2.450 mio $ this season, for a captain who will score 25-30 goals a year and is known for physical play.
Why didn't you pick on other players I listed?!!

And how many goals did Samuelson score on us in the playoffs? What does he make again?

And yes it's up to the player and what he expects and is willing to accept. The NHLPA will make sure he gets every cent from his contract and that's their job. Not contract negotiations lol.

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06-02-2010, 03:31 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Loktionov View Post
Johnson makes 1.4 mio $ <-> that is the same number that Cloutier made last year for "playin'" and about 1.3mio $ less then what Preissing gets on year. Brown made 2.450 mio $ this season, for a captain who will score 25-30 goals a year and is known for physical play.
Why didn't you pick on other players I listed?!!

And how many goals did Samuelson score on us in the playoffs? What does he make again?

And yes it's up to the player and what he expects and is willing to accept. The NHLPA will make sure he gets every cent from his contract and that's their job. Not contract negotiations lol.
I fail to see how you argument holds up, Brown and Johnson so far are making what they should. Brown maybe should be making a little more. But his contract was signed early.
Like I said you have probably never worked for a Union. There job is to make sure you make top dollar at your position according to your skill level in any setting. And to protect your labor rights.

That's why companies avoid them like the plague and everyone wants to work for one. Or create one in the job place.

Now they don't have any direct contact .....But if you think they are not involved under the table your live under a rock.


Last edited by damacles1156: 06-02-2010 at 03:37 PM.
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06-02-2010, 03:35 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
I fail to see how you argument holds up, Brown and Johnson so far are making what they should.
You really think 1.4 mio$ is top what Johnson could have commanded?


There are no union representatives on the negotiating process, nor are there other GM's making under table proposals as this would be tempering and would be a violation of the CBA. Is it that hard to you to understand this?
The NHLPA comes in play after the player & organization have already agreed on a contract and they can only refuse to accept a contract if it violates the CBA. There is no such thing as NHLPA "factor" that says what contract is good/bad. And the NHLPA makes only sure that the player gets his negotiated money and other additions (good medical support, ...)
A player can get hurt/finish his career and then this so great contract looks bad (DiPietro anyone?).

The one that wants his client to make top dollars is his agent who usually gets around 5% of the contract - I know it (been there, done that - albeit I (my father) was negotiating for only around 240€/month+bonuses for games won which however is quite some income for a highschool boy).


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06-02-2010, 03:39 PM
  #84
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You really think 1.4 mio$ is top what Johnson could have commanded?
When he signed the Contract? ....Yes unless you think a Defense men who was hurt most of his young career, with a plus minus rating in the tank was worth more......Hey I got a bridge I want to sell you...

You are thinking of Jack's worth today. It's more of course, but He didn't sign a contract yesterday.....

I know Jack having the season he did is making people forget about his abysmal first couple of years but yikes.....1.4 mill for the guy a year ago was a lot......


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06-02-2010, 04:09 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
When he signed the Contract? ....Yes unless you think a Defense men who was hurt most of his young career, with a plus minus rating in the tank was worth more......Hey I got a bridge I want to sell you...

You are thinking of Jack's worth today. It's more of course, but He didn't sign a contract yesterday.....

I know Jack having the season he did is making people forget about his abysmal first couple of years but yikes.....1.4 mill for the guy a year ago was a lot......
It's called potential - something the agents like to use to use to get more $ for a player. Johnson could've easily hold out and signed for the Pens for 1,5mio$ to play with his buddy Sidney. In fact there were plenty of rumors about KHL offers for Jack if I remember correctly - 4million$?.
Oh, as for the 1.4 million being a lot for an NHL 2nd pairing defensman -> ELC of top 5 picks can be worth over 3mio$ (with bonuses) nowadays.

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06-02-2010, 05:20 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Loktionov View Post
Johnson makes 1.4 mio $ <-> that is the same number that Cloutier made last year for "playin'" and about 1.3mio $ less then what Preissing gets on year. Brown made 2.450 mio $ this season, for a captain who will score 25-30 goals a year and is known for physical play.
Why didn't you pick on other players I listed?!!

And how many goals did Samuelson score on us in the playoffs? What does he make again?

And yes it's up to the player and what he expects and is willing to accept. The NHLPA will make sure he gets every cent from his contract and that's their job. Not contract negotiations lol.
Guys that get paid top dollar should be the league's best year in and year out. The guys you listed are stars but not the league's best... they are getting paid accordingly imo.

Getzlaf is the best player you listed and he's set to make over 5mil for the next 3 years. He was a big part of his teams cup run but he's never led the league in anything and this past season he missed 16 games and his team failed to make the playoffs. Is he worth a whole lot more than his $5.35 cap hit?

Parise is on the last year of his $3+ mill contract. Do you see him signing for anything less than $5 mill?

Samuelson scored a bunch of goals against us in the first round.. whoop dee doo! He still didn't make it past the 2nd round and he doesn't have the resume to command a bigger contract.

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06-02-2010, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Loktionov View Post
It's called potential - something the agents like to use to use to get more $ for a player. Johnson could've easily hold out and signed for the Pens for 1,5mio$ to play with his buddy Sidney. In fact there were plenty of rumors about KHL offers for Jack if I remember correctly - 4million$?.
Oh, as for the 1.4 million being a lot for an NHL 2nd pairing defensman -> ELC of top 5 picks can be worth over 3mio$ (with bonuses) nowadays.
I'm not sure but I don't think the arbitrator would ever consider 'potential' when it came to making a decision. When JJ signed the deal he only had one rookie year of experience.

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06-02-2010, 05:27 PM
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Doughty will get 6-7 years at 5.5 per, give or take 0.3.

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06-02-2010, 06:01 PM
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Dion Phaneuf did. And look how unattractive his contract is now because of his early success.
Dion was 20 during his rookie year and his impact was on the offensive side/big hits only. The guy has generally been lost in his own zone his whole career. He's not Mike Green bad but he's not much better either.

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06-02-2010, 09:10 PM
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Doughty will get 6-7 years at 5.5 per, give or take 0.3.
Those numbers work for me. This way, DD will still be in his prime when he hit free agency. He also has the chance to cash in on another big contract.

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06-03-2010, 11:28 AM
  #91
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Union yes wants their members get top dollar = True.

But it's up to the players by the end of the day IMO.

My sense is, DD will sign a contract around $6 - 7 million per year depending on the length of the deal. DD dreamed of playing for LA so I would assume he will give the Kings a good bargain unless Dean low balls him that the figure is so insulting.

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06-03-2010, 11:29 AM
  #92
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If JJ is signed an offer sheet from other teams and LA does not match it, how many 1st round picks do we get?


Last edited by The Judge: 06-03-2010 at 11:35 AM.
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06-03-2010, 11:34 AM
  #93
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Can anyone clarify this for me

DL on the interview said that he has a problem signing players based on projections. If that is the case, didn't he sign Kopitar based on that. Because to me $6.8 million per season based on Kopitar's past numbers and performance does not justify his contract. Isn't he contradicting himself?

Second point, on Backstrom. He produced 101 points that is why the Caps GM signed him that type of contract and is justifiably so... than Kopitar's signing...?

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06-03-2010, 11:45 AM
  #94
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If JJ is signed an offer sheet from other teams and LA does not match it, how many 1st round picks do we get?
here
Quote:
-- WHAT IS THE COMPENSATION REQUIRED FOR SIGNING A RFA TO AN OFFER SHEET?
For 2008-09, the compensation due for signing a RFA to an Offer Sheet is:

Amount


Compensation Due

$863,156 or less


None

$863,156 - $1,307,812


3rd round pick

$1,307,812 - $2,615,625


2nd round pick

$2,615,623 - $3,923,437


1st and 3rd round pick

$3,923,437 - $5,231,249


1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick

$5,231,249 - $6,539,062


Two 1st's, one 2nd, one 3rd round pick

$6,539,062 or more


Four 1st round picks
http://www.nhlscap.com/offer_sheets.htm

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06-03-2010, 11:51 AM
  #95
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Thanks man.

Question though, remember Dustin Penner? Did Edmonton sign him before 2008? Because the Ducks got a 1st, 2nd and a 3round pick on a $4.5 million contract.

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06-03-2010, 12:09 PM
  #96
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Thanks man.

Question though, remember Dustin Penner? Did Edmonton sign him before 2008? Because the Ducks got a 1st, 2nd and a 3round pick on a $4.5 million contract.
Yes, it was 2007

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