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05-02-2010, 05:25 PM
  #26
MarkMM
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I disagree. paying him 5 million years 3 qnd 4 would mean we would tie up over 1/3 of our payroll (at least 16 million) in three defensemen. Thats just untenable given our self imposed cap. Add in the 10 million that Legwand and Erat will be making, and that only leaves about 20 million dollars for the other 17-18 players.

of all teams, we are the least able to afford to pay our #3 defenseman top pair money.


as i said before... we could possibly squeeze hammer in for the next two years, but beyond that, either Weber, Suter, or Hamhuis MUST go. Sorry but i pick hammer, and I assume so does poile.
No argument here, my point is that by signing him to a long-term deal, Nashville preserves the flexibility of what to do down the road.

1.) If you can keep both Weber and Suter, then you can trade Hamhuis because he's on a good cap-deal and get assets back in return (unlike if you let him walk now).

2.) If you can't keep both Weber and Suter, you've got Hamhuis in your back-pocket to keep your top two defensemen respectable.

3.) By back-loading the deal, you can sign him for this year without going over-budget, and only worry about his pay-raises when Arnott comes off the books and you have to start choosing between Suter and Weber.

By not doing this, you not only lose Hamhuis for nothing this year, you also run the risk of not having back-up options down the road if things get sticky with Weber/Suter.

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05-02-2010, 05:31 PM
  #27
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Volde, if you're thinking we can re-sign Weber for around 5 and Suter for 4.5 you're a dreamer. If you're comparing them to the Pronger and Niedermayer of their generation and entering their primes, they're gonna command more than $6 million apiece. Teams will offer that and more on the open market. The only way we keep those two is to offer them decent money for long term deals. I don't think offering either one of them long term deals is a bad decision at all. These guys should be the cornerstone of our defense for as long as we can keep them. If I'm Poile, when Weber becomes a RFA after next season, I sit down with him and Suter and re-sign them for the same deal for the long term, somewhere in the neighborhood of $6 million/season for 8-10 years. If a guy like Campbell can make over $7 million, these guys are certainly worth at least $6 million.

Unfortunately, salaries have been thrown out of whack by deals to Bouwmeester, Campbell and Phaneuf. None of these guys are worth the money they are getting and Weber/Suter are better than all 3. Now, if you look at Keith's deal, around $5.5 million, that might be a way to approach this too. It would save us about a million a year total which is always helpful but these guys will get the money from someone else if we don't buck up so to speak.
I know. I was creating a best case scenario with the home town discount and a backloaded deal. I actually expect weber to be 6 mil and suter 5.5 mil average for their deals but backloaded so we can afford them the first couple of seasons.

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05-02-2010, 05:36 PM
  #28
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No argument here, my point is that by signing him to a long-term deal, Nashville preserves the flexibility of what to do down the road.

1.) If you can keep both Weber and Suter, then you can trade Hamhuis because he's on a good cap-deal and get assets back in return (unlike if you let him walk now).

2.) If you can't keep both Weber and Suter, you've got Hamhuis in your back-pocket to keep your top two defensemen respectable.

3.) By back-loading the deal, you can sign him for this year without going over-budget, and only worry about his pay-raises when Arnott comes off the books and you have to start choosing between Suter and Weber.

By not doing this, you not only lose Hamhuis for nothing this year, you also run the risk of not having back-up options down the road if things get sticky with Weber/Suter.
problem is if you backload his deal and he gets hurt or underperforms, nobody will take him off our hands at 5 million per year, then we are stuck with him, and that would cripple us.

I think poile has a pretty good idea of whether he can keep suter and weber and how much its going to cost. Having Hamuis only as a fallback is too risky a contingency plan. Honestly if we lose either Weber or Suter the best thing to do is replace them with a youngster who is coming up and spend the 6 mil we would have spent on Webs or Suter on some scoring.

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05-02-2010, 05:48 PM
  #29
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Yo I hope all you Nashvillers are safe from the intense floods.

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05-02-2010, 05:55 PM
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Yo I hope all you Nashvillers are safe from the intense floods.
+1

All my best to you all.

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05-02-2010, 05:59 PM
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Yo I hope all you Nashvillers are safe from the intense floods.
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+1

All my best to you all.
Thanks guys

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05-02-2010, 06:12 PM
  #32
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The weird thing is if we actually had a game at home last night or tonight or possibly tomorrow it would be canceled.It would have to be, there's no way for a lot of people to get around and it's obviously dumb to try. They also canceled a big name concert at the Ryman tonight as well.

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05-02-2010, 07:17 PM
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Would Denis automatically take the QO?

How about calling up one of the kids from Milwaukee and signing another bargain Dman like Bouillon as insurance?

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06-02-2010, 10:42 PM
  #34
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Since it seems a given that Hamhuis is a goner, would you Pred fans' care to give a honest opinion on how he plays? on a day to day basis, strengths, weaknesses.

Thanks in advance!

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06-03-2010, 12:49 AM
  #35
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his perm is his strength

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06-03-2010, 09:46 AM
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his perm is his strength
I mean besides that, lol.

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06-03-2010, 02:55 PM
  #37
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Not sure if you saw this, but Hamhuis was on a local Vancouver radio show that has become a hot topic over on the Canucks forum:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=782557

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06-03-2010, 03:36 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by ILikeItILoveIt View Post
I drove by his house today. Zeitlin Reality. Front Lawn. It's there. Must have just happened within the last 2 days.
This is the most horrifying thing in the entire thread. It's like my biggest pet peeve.

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06-03-2010, 04:15 PM
  #39
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This is the most horrifying thing in the entire thread. It's like my biggest pet peeve.
right there with you

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06-04-2010, 09:50 AM
  #40
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We need a better ownership group so we can get rid of this self imposed salary cap and can keep them all.

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06-04-2010, 09:50 AM
  #41
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Since it seems a given that Hamhuis is a goner, would you Pred fans' care to give a honest opinion on how he plays? on a day to day basis, strengths, weaknesses.

Thanks in advance!
He plays to the level of his competition... which is scary sometimes. He is smart with who he gets chippy with which is something I loved - watching Hamhius shove the Thortons and Sedins of the league after the play is dead. Among all our players, I saw him getting in the face of the star players more than anyone, but I never saw him lose focus on some scrubby 4th liner.

There was a big issue with him being paired with Klien this year. I'm not sure why, but I would look over your team and try to find who is most like Klien and make sure Hamhius is not paired with him.

That said, he has a nasty hipcheck that is hella-exciting. He has fallen off in the offensive department. That could just be his role though.

He is a very solid player though...

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06-04-2010, 10:26 AM
  #42
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The problem I have with Hamhuis is that it seems like he peaked 3 years ago. With each season, he's looked a little worse than the one before. Not sure what that's about, I'm sure some of it is who he gets paired with, but I don't think he'll be worth what he ends up getting paid.

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06-04-2010, 11:10 AM
  #43
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The problem I have with Hamhuis is that it seems like he peaked 3 years ago. With each season, he's looked a little worse than the one before. Not sure what that's about, I'm sure some of it is who he gets paired with, but I don't think he'll be worth what he ends up getting paid.
How many free agents are worth what they sign for?

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06-04-2010, 11:13 AM
  #44
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How many free agents are worth what they sign for?
So that makes it okay?

I'm just saying, if some other team wants to pay Hamhuis 4 million dollars, that's great for him. I just wouldn't want it to be my team.

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06-04-2010, 11:20 AM
  #45
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So that makes it okay?

I'm just saying, if some other team wants to pay Hamhuis 4 million dollars, that's great for him. I just wouldn't want it to be my team.
Never said it was ok. Where did you get that from my post? Most guys get overpaid in free agency. Some guys are steals, some guys are busts. At the same time, some guys are steals on entry level contracts and when they are restricted so at the end of the day, does it even out, probably so.

I don't agree to the testament of paying out huge gobs of money to build a winning team. You can fill in a hole by being smart in free agency but when guys are given $6-7 million a season it blows the market out of whack. Look at Chicago. They give Campbell that huge contract and sign Keith to an extension well below the value of that deal. We have Weber and Suter up for deals in the next 2 years, which contract do you base their new contracts on?

Market value and availability also dictate who gets what. Hamhuis is probably one of the top 5 defensemen out there in this years free agent class. He'll get paid a pretty sum of money. Is he worth top pairing money, who knows. Will he get top pair minutes and get lots of special teams play to justify his contract? Once again, who knows. Will he take his game to another level or be the pretty consistent Hamhuis we have known over the years? I have no idea if he does better, worse or the same in another system. All I know is losing him is going to hurt our blue line and our community. It's a business and you can't re-sign guys for what they do off the ice but he is a solid individual on and off the ice. It's refreshing to see but sad to see someone like him go too, if that's what happens in the end.

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06-04-2010, 12:30 PM
  #46
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I guess I'm in the minority here but I'd rather spend the money elsewhere. I was underwhelmed by Dan this past season, including the playoffs. I like him, and he's a good guy, but if he's going to command 3-5, I'd rather pass and let him earn his keep in another city.

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06-04-2010, 01:04 PM
  #47
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I guess I'm in the minority here but I'd rather spend the money elsewhere. I was underwhelmed by Dan this past season, including the playoffs. I like him, and he's a good guy, but if he's going to command 3-5, I'd rather pass and let him earn his keep in another city.
Agreed. He can be "pretty good" when he's on his game, and then someone will blow by him for a goal. He just can't be counted on consistently, IMO. We can not afford to give out another big contract to a slightly above average player.

It will be interesting to see what he gets on the open market. There's this sick feeling that Poile is pushing ownership to spend money on him though.

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06-04-2010, 01:52 PM
  #48
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i would rather sign dan and send hornquist somewhere else. I just don't believe in him

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06-04-2010, 02:21 PM
  #49
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i would rather sign dan and send hornquist somewhere else. I just don't believe in him
wow, I don't know what to say ... I don't believe in Radulov would be my argument because he doesn't stick his ass in front of the net and jam rebounds home

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06-04-2010, 02:49 PM
  #50
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This thought came to me the other day. What about trading Franson and re-signing Grebs. Franson will probably get around a million, maybe a little less. Grebs is a RFA and if he gets a qualifying offer from us it can be within 10% of his current salary up or down if I'm not mistaken from what someone posted a while back. So say we offer him $3 million, is it doable? Obviously Hornqvist is a bigger deal as far as getting done but assuming he's re-signed to a decent cap hit, would that work? Trade Franson for either a pick/high prospect or a young kid on a small contract that can play up front? Also, re-signing Bouillon to a decent deal that doesn't cripple us monetarily. That would leave us, Weber, Suter, Klein, Bouillon, Grebs and either Laakso, Sulzer or Blum as our number 6 guy.

The only reason I bring this up is because the cap is going up as well. Didn't know if this was a possibility for us salary wise.

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