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06-03-2010, 01:06 PM
  #26
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
Honestly, I don't get all the talk about salary. The only thing making us more than a $41 million spending team right now is $3 million wasted for Brindy, $3 million wasted on Cole and $2.8 million wasted on Samsonov. If a higher payroll means more wins, then why are we complaining about those three guys. We should keep them around so we can spend $50 million instead of $41 million, right?
That's a great point. If anything, we're only cutting useless salary anyway. It's not like the team is going to get a lot worse without Samsonov holding it down on the wing.

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06-03-2010, 01:30 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
Honestly, I don't get all the talk about salary. The only thing making us more than a $41 million spending team right now is $3 million wasted for Brindy, $3 million wasted on Cole and $2.8 million wasted on Samsonov. If a higher payroll means more wins, then why are we complaining about those three guys. We should keep them around so we can spend $50 million instead of $41 million, right?
It's BECAUSE of those salaries we can't use a $41 mil cap. Who asked us to spend stupidly this off season. JR and PK ****ed up with those three signings, so they should expect to feel those bad decisions, but instead they pass those poor decisions on to the fans. It'd be different if we couldn't spend more because we hit the league cap with bad contracts, but to have two huge contracts and $10 mil wasted contracts, and to spend at the league min is just awful.


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06-03-2010, 01:37 PM
  #28
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
Vote for most off point post in history.

It's BECAUSE of those salaries we can't use a $41 mil cap. Wow talk about a nonsensical post. Who asked us to spend stupidly this off season. JR and PK ****ed up with those three signings, so they should expect to feel those bad decisions, but instead they pass those poor decisions on to the fans
I think his point is simply that slashing bad contracts is not a bad thing for the team. It would be different if we were cutting useful players with a long future, but that's not what's happening at all. If anything, getting rid of Samsonov and Brind'Amour would probably be a case of addition by subtraction. Cole is getting close to that territory as well. These cuts aren't as painful as they're made out to be.

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06-03-2010, 01:42 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I think his point is simply that slashing bad contracts is not a bad thing for the team. It would be different if we were cutting useful players with a long future, but that's not what's happening at all. If anything, getting rid of Samsonov and Brind'Amour would probably be a case of addition by subtraction. Cole is getting close to that territory as well. These cuts aren't as painful as they're made out to be.

I edited my post because I read it and it sounded bad... Sorry Kev

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06-03-2010, 02:10 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
I edited my post because I read it and it sounded bad... Sorry Kev
Does that mean I can have my perfect game, Mr. Joyce?

No offense taken. And thanks tarheelhockey. My point was made in a pretty sarcastic manner, and it was more than just "we shouldn't have signed bad contracts." Obviously, nobody knows it's a bad contract when it's signed (although, in these three cases, it wasn't a bad bet that they'd all end up bad), and sometimes you get stuck.

My bigger point is that "payroll" in and of itself has very little bearing on success or failure on the ice. Just because you pay more for a guy, doesn't mean you're going to get more production. The Canes spent against the cap last year and they were awful.

Sure, spend a few bucks at the deadline to improve your depth for the playoffs, but all spending big money guarantees you is a high payroll. I'm just tired of the generalization that spending to the cap means you want to win more than teams that set self-imposed caps.

And all the talk of the team needing to spend to keep fans is simply ridiculous. I know for one, I'd be more likely to fork over my own cash to watch a group of hungry players on the upside of their careers over watching guys like Brindy, Cole and Samsonov cheating the game every night as long as the checks keep clearing.

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06-03-2010, 02:12 PM
  #31
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I meant losing will cost fans in the seats, not spending

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06-03-2010, 02:15 PM
  #32
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Plus, SVT, you seem to be resigned to the fact that the Canes are "stuck" with those $10 million in contracts. I'm not. It will cost us, but I do believe we will package at least one of those guys into a salary dump deal where we give somebody a pick to take on the contract.

I still like the Bieksa deal, where we give up Cole or Samsonov and two picks (second round or lower) for Bieksa. The lesser pick is payment for taking Samsonov or Cole's contract, the higher pick is payment for Bieksa. In the end, we end up addressing the need on defense, clearing a spot for a young player, *and* staying at the same salary point.

And seriously, I'm not upset in the least, so don't go soft now ... !

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06-03-2010, 02:25 PM
  #33
tarheelhockey
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I wonder if NHL teams have some kind of cost-return analysis to determine whether it's profitable to sign certain players. As in, "since ticket sales will go up by X if we win Y more games, then it's worthwhile to spend $Z on players". But if Z > X, we'd rather just tank those games and build for the future.

I think this is, in extremely rudimentary terms, what Karmanos is really telling us with his comments on the internal cap. It's not worth several million dollars worth of salary to sneak in the back door of the playoffs and get only 2 or 3 extra home dates. Not when it also means a much lower draft position, prospects getting stuck in the AHL and potentially a problem re-signing guys down the line. Right now the equation favors a rebuild, and Karmanos is ever-so-gently preparing us for another tough season or two before things get better.

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06-03-2010, 02:38 PM
  #34
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Ticket sales have to be up with the all star game business. If there ever was a time to go cheap and take a down year for the future, this is it.

I am cool with sacrificing.

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06-03-2010, 02:56 PM
  #35
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I am very doubtful season tickets will increase because of the all star game

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06-03-2010, 03:18 PM
  #36
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I see the All Star game as the opposite. You have another opportunity, the first the season after we won the cup, to share this game with a new set of ticket holders that will be attracted. You should do your best to put an exciting (competitive) product on the ice that will encourage these buyers to remain and attract more. No one likes to feel that they aren't getting what they paid for. I'm having a hard time understanding how compuware was successful.


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06-03-2010, 03:24 PM
  #37
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Personally I bought 2 tickets specifically to get All-Star access. Speaking only for myself.

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06-03-2010, 03:41 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NTClikeCandy View Post
I see the All Star game as the opposite. You have another opportunity, the first the season after we won the cup, to share this game with a new set of ticket holders that will be attracted. You should do your best to put an exciting (competitive) product on the ice that will encourage these buyers to remain and attract more. No one likes to feel that they aren't getting what they paid for. I'm having a hard time understanding how compuware was successful.
Once again, with feeling, the Canes *ARE* doing their best "to put an exciting (competitive) product on the ice." Just because they want to shed bad contracts and NOT overpay for new crappy contracts, does NOT mean they are not trying to put their best team on the ice.

Are you saying that people will feel like they're getting what they paid for if they get to watch Brindy, Cole and Samsonov dogging it? Or would it be better if we overpaid for Sutton and watched him suck? C'mon folks, this is not rocket science.

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06-03-2010, 03:43 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
Once again, with feeling, the Canes *ARE* doing their best "to put an exciting (competitive) product on the ice." Just because they want to shed bad contracts and NOT overpay for new crappy contracts, does NOT mean they are not trying to put their best team on the ice.

Are you saying that people will feel like they're getting what they paid for if they get to watch Brindy, Cole and Samsonov dogging it? Or would it be better if we overpaid for Sutton and watched him suck? C'mon folks, this is not rocket science.
Where did I say we should keep Brindy, Cole or Samsonov? You obviously have never read a single thing I've ever written because I think they should all be gone. I'm just arguing that you use seasons where attendance is up to attract new business not to go cheap and profit.

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06-03-2010, 03:50 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NTClikeCandy View Post
Where did I say we should keep Brindy, Cole or Samsonov? You obviously have never read a single thing I've ever written because I think they should all be gone. I'm just arguing that you use seasons where attendance is up to attract new business not to go cheap and profit.
And I'm just saying that "going cheap" and "winning" aren't mutually exclusive, the same way "spending to the cap" and "winning" don't always go together. They going to try to win by getting rid of dead weight and letting guys play who actually care. I don't see that as a bad thing, from a "paying customer" point of view.

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06-03-2010, 03:54 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
And I'm just saying that "going cheap" and "winning" aren't mutually exclusive, the same way "spending to the cap" and "winning" don't always go together. They going to try to win by getting rid of dead weight and letting guys play who actually care. I don't see that as a bad thing, from a "paying customer" point of view.
In the case of Cole, Samsonov, Brindy and I'd add even Whitney I think this team will be better from subtraction. However, this team still needs to address some concerns via FA and I hope they don't misuse another golden opportunity to share this game with some new fans.

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06-03-2010, 04:02 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by NTClikeCandy View Post
In the case of Cole, Samsonov, Brindy and I'd add even Whitney I think this team will be better from subtraction. However, this team still needs to address some concerns via FA and I hope they don't misuse another golden opportunity to share this game with some new fans.
I don't think you address needs via free agency. Unrestricted free agents are -- with very rare exception -- overpriced, simply because they are free. But the Canes have assets to work trades. This is where the concerns will be addressed. If JR is smart, he can use our depth to dump salary AND address needs. Plus, players you trade for are a) signed, and b) generally younger than UFAs, eliminating the need to overpay for veterans.

If JR does this well (and there's no real reason to think he will), the Canes can be cheaper and more competitive next season.

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06-03-2010, 04:33 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
I am very doubtful season tickets will increase because of the all star game
I remember reading about Atlanta's boost in season tickets the year they held the All Star Game due to the access it gets you to actual game tickets. There were many extra seats bought by scalpers, ticket agencies, and out of state hockey fans exclusively for All-Star tickets.

The Canes would be crazy not to use the All Star Game this summer as THE marketing tool for season ticket sales to both individuals and corporations. It could draw back bandwagon fans that have waned into the background since the Cup run and also serve as a great way to get people who have always been interested or have just recently become interested but haven't attended a game yet to make the leap and purchase tickets.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Personally I bought 2 tickets specifically to get All-Star access. Speaking only for myself.
Case in point right there...

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06-03-2010, 05:44 PM
  #44
Sasha Cares
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there is only about 10-12k All Star tickets available, we already have close to that in season tickets. I think nearly everyone that wants to go to the game is already a season ticket holder

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06-03-2010, 06:02 PM
  #45
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I had a 12 gamer, now have a full plan. The people that went to the games with me(4 in total) all upgraded from 12 gamers to 26 or full plans solely on the ASG priority

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06-03-2010, 06:05 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
there is only about 10-12k All Star tickets available, we already have close to that in season tickets. I think nearly everyone that wants to go to the game is already a season ticket holder
If you read the fine print though, the literature said that the full season and 26 game holders (who purchase by may 14th) are guaranteed the opportunity to purchase tickets equal to the number of seats for the skills competition and all-star game. The 12 game pack only gets "priority" for 1 or the other based on availability. (not sure how they'll decide all of that).

I know of two individuals who upped their plans from 12 games to 26 games this year strictly so they were guaranteed all-star tickets.

I also have a friend who I play hockey with here in Raleigh who bought an upper deck mini-pack in Atlanta a few years ago so he could be guaranteed All-star tickets. He only went to the All-star game and sold all of his other tickets at a loss. Obviously he has enough disposable income to do this, but I think the All-star game will have an impact on season ticket sales (either via upgrades or new season ticket holders). Not sure how much of an impact, but it will have one.

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06-03-2010, 08:36 PM
  #47
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Also keep in mind that they say the 26-gamers are "guaranteed" the opportunity to purchase tickets, but they don't say *where*. This is what swayed me away from the deal. I may have had two fulls in LL North, but my All-Star tix could still be in the 300s.

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06-03-2010, 09:12 PM
  #48
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I'll be getting full season tickets, but the All-Star Game has absolutely no bearing on my decision...

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06-03-2010, 09:55 PM
  #49
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Damn,,,,, I am sorry to hear this

I was sorta hoping Versteeg or Sharp would end up on the Canes as I think both would have helped your team next year

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06-03-2010, 09:57 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
I remember reading about Atlanta's boost in season tickets the year they held the All Star Game due to the access it gets you to actual game tickets. There were many extra seats bought by scalpers, ticket agencies, and out of state hockey fans exclusively for All-Star tickets. ...
Weren't the Thrashers also coming off a playoff season? That probably caused an increase in tickets purchased that offseason

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