HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The "I want to complain about Regier" Thread (Merged)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-04-2010, 11:56 AM
  #51
jflory81
Irken Elite
 
jflory81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 20,711
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to jflory81
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcv View Post
Yeah, I'm wondering as well.

It sounds like Darcy should have traded Max immedietly after he reached his peak. As if that's so easy to determine.
That was somewhat rhetorical, because I know the answer. It was his wrist injury. Which was an injury that is notoriously hard to come back from in any decent time frame and still have the same abilities as before the injury.

Which means no GM was going to give anything of value until he proved he could come back and play at the same level. Which he didn't, which resulted in him having to sign a tryout contract to even sniff the Thrashers roster this year.

I'm glad he made the team and I'm glad to see him do well, because Maxim's always been one of my favorite players - since I saw him record a hat-trick in his first professional home game (in Rochester). But Buffalo really got caught in a bad situation where Max's contract expired as he was recovering from that injury.

jflory81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 11:57 AM
  #52
Ron Barr
Doing it to Death
 
Ron Barr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: bdddddddet
Posts: 5,820
vCash: 500
If I'm not mistaken, during the 07/08 season (when Max's production started dwindling) he had a lot of injuries as well, mainly his wrist. He missed like 25 games or so, so I'm sure managment thought once he got an off-season to rest he'd be back in full form again. Obviously that didn't work out, but that should explain why he didn't get traded the year before.

Ron Barr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 12:22 PM
  #53
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 56,675
vCash: 500
Awards:
Broken wrist and chronic groin strains took a lot out of his value because it took a lot out of his overall game.

__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 01:32 PM
  #54
fightclubber25
Registered User
 
fightclubber25's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 932
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Why do fans make these excuses for Regier?
something ive had a hard time understanding for a while now. i feel that nobody really likes what hes doing, but because he represents our team and everything we love, people feel the need to defend him as if bashing him is the same as another teams fans bashing the sabres in general.. imo its ok to feel disgusted with any particular part of your favorite team - it shouldnt make you into a bad fan, it just shows that you employ some sort of passion for success at all costs that some fans just arent willing to buy into.

i dono, i see what theyre saying about ignoring certain things to suite a theme of a thread or whatever, but imo even if the details are off, as long as the idea is true and the intent is relevant, its still a legitimate item for discussion. ive found that there are more people on these forums who want to focus on the details of a particular post and pick apart its integrity based on spelling errors or incorrect references to dates or something than there are people who focus on the idea of an opinion and the legitimacy of it - which ultimately and consistently results in personal scuffs and irrelevant arguments that completely ignore the theme of a post and go on forever until a mod comes in and reminds people to stay on point.

in other words, if a person references afinogenov in a post that clearly is about how darcy sucks, regardless of whether the afinogenov portion is 100% correct, the post is still about how darcy sucks, and if you agree with that.. why bother making it a point to argue about the correctness of the afinogenov portion?.. its about how darcy sucks, imo either you agree or disagree, it has nothing to do with max, really. and if youre tired of hearing about how darcy sucks, think about all the other random topics that people get sick of hearing about.. its just the nature of a forum.. not everyone is on here 24-7, and sometimes people miss a discussion or two and arent aware theyre starting a thread about something that one or two regular posters are sick of hearing about.. and it shouldnt matter, ignore it if you dont like it, am i wrong?


Last edited by fightclubber25: 06-04-2010 at 01:53 PM.
fightclubber25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 01:34 PM
  #55
jflory81
Irken Elite
 
jflory81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 20,711
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to jflory81
Quote:
Originally Posted by fightclubber25 View Post
something ive had a hard time understanding for a while now. i feel that nobody really likes what hes doing, but because he represents our team and everything we love, people feel the need to defend him as if bashing him is the same as another teams fans bashing the sabres in general.. imo its ok to feel disgusted with any particular part of your favorite team - it shouldnt make you into a bad fan, it just shows that you employ some sort of passion for success at all costs that some fans just arent willing to buy into.

i dono, i see what theyre saying about ignoring certain things to suite a theme of a thread or whatever, but imo even if the details are off, as long as the idea is true and the intent is relevant, its still a legitimate item for discussion. ive found that there are more people on these forums who want to focus on the details of a particular post and pick apart its integrity based on spelling errors or incorrect references to dates or something than there are people who focus on the idea of an opinion and the legitimacy of it.
There's been plenty of bashing of Regier.

Most of us want it to be legitimate. Rather than the random threads full of the usual "OMG WHY DIDN'T HE TRADE A (untradeable) PLAYER???!?!?!?!?"

jflory81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 01:51 PM
  #56
fightclubber25
Registered User
 
fightclubber25's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 932
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
There's been plenty of bashing of Regier.

Most of us want it to be legitimate. Rather than the random threads full of the usual "OMG WHY DIDN'T HE TRADE A (untradeable) PLAYER???!?!?!?!?"
i must have been editing my post while you were posting, so see above for my rebuttal (saw that one coming)

fightclubber25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 01:58 PM
  #57
jflory81
Irken Elite
 
jflory81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 20,711
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to jflory81
Quote:
Originally Posted by fightclubber25 View Post
i must have been editing my post while you were posting, so see above for my rebuttal (saw that one coming)
The problem is the Afinogenov portion is not at all correct.

You missed the entire point of the objection.

jflory81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 01:59 PM
  #58
vcv
Moderator
Deal with it
 
vcv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Williamsville, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,472
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to vcv
Quote:
Originally Posted by fightclubber25 View Post
in other words, if a person references afinogenov in a post that clearly is about how darcy sucks, regardless of whether the afinogenov portion is 100% correct, the post is still about how darcy sucks, and if you agree with that.. why bother making it a point to argue about the correctness of the afinogenov portion?.. its about how darcy sucks, imo either you agree or disagree, it has nothing to do with max, really.
Huh? There isn't an "Afinogenov" portion. The very basis of the thread is Regier's handling of Max and how he supposedly "lied" or "didn't mean what he said". And that basis is wrong.

The premise of the thread is based on a misguided crusade, so all the criticisms are very relevant.

vcv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 02:06 PM
  #59
fightclubber25
Registered User
 
fightclubber25's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 932
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcv View Post
Huh? There isn't an "Afinogenov" portion. The very basis of the thread is Regier's handling of Max and how he supposedly "lied" or "didn't mean what he said". And that basis is wrong.

The premise of the thread is based on a misguided crusade, so all the criticisms are very relevant.
i guess i dont find them as irrelevant as you do. nobody knows exactly how darcy handled the situation behind closed doors. its all speculation. but like i said, the essence of the thread was about DARCY not max... yet people still need to focus on the details. when was the last time you found yourself thinking to yourself, man im really glad we have darcy as a GM, he really did a good job with (insert accomplishment here)?

i cant think of any.

fightclubber25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 02:07 PM
  #60
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 10,614
vCash: 500
The problem is his belief that Roy, Pominville, Vanek etc were good enough going forward as well as his habit of holding on to players until they have virtually zero trade value. It has nothing to do with him not shaking things up when he says they need a shake up. It's that he doesn't really think that the team has needed one since the Captains left.

In short, it's his misinterpretation of the Sabres situation that is a problem, not his honesty.

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 02:10 PM
  #61
jflory81
Irken Elite
 
jflory81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 20,711
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to jflory81
Quote:
Originally Posted by fightclubber25 View Post
i guess i dont find them as irrelevant as you do. nobody knows exactly how darcy handled the situation behind closed doors. its all speculation. but like i said, the essence of the thread was about DARCY not max... yet people still need to focus on the details. when was the last time you found yourself thinking to yourself, man im really glad we have darcy as a GM, he really did a good job with (insert accomplishment here)?

i cant think of any.
Well, yeah I suppose the focus of the thread was Regier, as was any number of other threads started by the same poster this summer.

Want to criticize Regier? Come up with some legitimate (within the last 2-3 years) reason. (And there are plenty.) Because as angry as I was with him about Briere, and as angry as I am with him about his passivity, he did build a division winner 3 years after losing ALL of his leadership.

Don't start a thread about how he failed to trade damaged goods who no other GM wanted for FREE during the offseason.

jflory81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 02:16 PM
  #62
vcv
Moderator
Deal with it
 
vcv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Williamsville, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,472
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to vcv
Quote:
Originally Posted by fightclubber25 View Post
i guess i dont find them as irrelevant as you do. nobody knows exactly how darcy handled the situation behind closed doors. its all speculation. but like i said, the essence of the thread was about DARCY not max... yet people still need to focus on the details. when was the last time you found yourself thinking to yourself, man im really glad we have darcy as a GM, he really did a good job with (insert accomplishment here)?

i cant think of any.
No, Darcy is a "detail". His handling of Max was the only point put forth in the original post. The basis of that point was misguided. So technically you're the one trying to focus on only a specific part of the original point.

Seriously, stop trying to play semantics with this.

p.s. I said the criticisms of the thread are RELEVANT, not IRRELEVANT.

vcv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 02:20 PM
  #63
fightclubber25
Registered User
 
fightclubber25's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 932
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Well, yeah I suppose the focus of the thread was Regier, as was any number of other threads started by the same poster this summer.

Want to criticize Regier? Come up with some legitimate (within the last 2-3 years) reason. (And there are plenty.) Because as angry as I was with him about Briere, and as angry as I am with him about his passivity, he did build a division winner 3 years after losing ALL of his leadership.

Don't start a thread about how he failed to trade damaged goods who no other GM wanted for FREE during the offseason.
of course nobody wanted a guy who sat on the bench all season cuz his coach wouldnt let him play, we forget that max had some value prior to last summer, which obviously dwindled as the calendar flipped away and he was watching games from the press box. for a guy who is supposedly so terrible, he had a pretty decent season in atlanta. if regeir thought he needed a change of scenery he should have changed his scenery, hes the GM, thats his job. if you cant get late round pick for a guy you dont want on your team, most teams would waive him instead of putting him up in the press box and letting him earn his full salary for free.

fightclubber25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 02:24 PM
  #64
vcv
Moderator
Deal with it
 
vcv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Williamsville, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,472
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to vcv
Quote:
Originally Posted by fightclubber
nobody knows exactly how darcy handled the situation behind closed doors.[1]
Quote:
Originally Posted by fightclubber25 View Post
we forget that max had a ton of value prior to last summer[2], which obviously dwindled as the calendar flipped away and he was watching games from the press box. for a guy who is supposedly so terrible, he had a pretty decent season in atlanta. if regeir thought he needed a change of scenery he should have changed his scenery, hes the GM, thats his job. if you cant get late round pick for a guy [3]you dont want on your team, most teams would waive him instead of putting him up in the press box and letting him earn his full salary for free.
So what is it? We don't know how he handled the situation or Regier didn't try to trade him prior to last summer? [1] [2] and [3] are at a disconnect here. Pick a position and stick to it. It's hard to understand your point when you are contradicting yourself.

vcv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 02:27 PM
  #65
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 10,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fightclubber25 View Post
of course nobody wanted a guy who sat on the bench all season cuz his coach wouldnt let him play, we forget that max had some value prior to last summer
But the quote was from last summer, which is the earliest we know for sure that Darcy was thinking about moving Max.

If you want to say that Darcy messed up by not trading Max sometime in 07/08 when Max still presumably had some value, sure. But that's not what the OP said. The OP said that Darcy ****ed up by not trading Max after he said he might last summer when he had no value.

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 02:46 PM
  #66
fightclubber25
Registered User
 
fightclubber25's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 932
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcv View Post
So what is it? We don't know how he handled the situation or Regier didn't try to trade him prior to last summer? [1] [2] and [3] are at a disconnect here. Pick a position and stick to it. It's hard to understand your point when you are contradicting yourself.
you wana know what my position is? i dont care about what happened to max, or how it wasnt handled. i think regier is a **** GM, regardless of which example you want to use to prove it. sure i thought it was poor management to let the guy sit on the sidelines while he was healthy then let him walk having paid him to do nothing, but i dont care cuz its not the only thing i saw as handled poorly. theres a grocery list of other things hes done to this team i think were failures. my point is this: the thread might have cited some misunderstood information about this or that, but thats water under the bridge if you were capable of taking from the thread the intended message - darcy doesnt do ****. its obvious people dont want to talk about regier being a bad GM, theyd rather pick on a guy.


Last edited by Chainshot: 06-04-2010 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Stop with the personal attacks
fightclubber25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 03:07 PM
  #67
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 56,675
vCash: 500
Awards:
Enough with the personal attacks. Really. Enough.

Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 03:29 PM
  #68
jflory81
Irken Elite
 
jflory81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 20,711
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to jflory81
Quote:
Originally Posted by fightclubber25 View Post
of course nobody wanted a guy who sat on the bench all season cuz his coach wouldnt let him play, we forget that max had some value prior to last summer, which obviously dwindled as the calendar flipped away and he was watching games from the press box. for a guy who is supposedly so terrible, he had a pretty decent season in atlanta. if regeir thought he needed a change of scenery he should have changed his scenery, hes the GM, thats his job. if you cant get late round pick for a guy you dont want on your team, most teams would waive him instead of putting him up in the press box and letting him earn his full salary for free.
No. He had no value because he just suffered a performance impacting wrist injury - one that nobody in the league knew if he'd come back from. Hence him only getting a tryout contract from one of the worst teams in the league (who happened to also have a Russian as their star player)

And I can fill in the blanks from your earlier post.....



Darcy Regier made a great decision with: Ryan Miller

jflory81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 04:24 PM
  #69
Vito_81
Registered User
 
Vito_81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
The problem is his belief that Roy, Pominville, Vanek etc were good enough going forward as well as his habit of holding on to players until they have virtually zero trade value.
.
I really wish people would stop including Vanek in discussions such as this. Buffalo had just lost thier two most popular forwards in the span of a day or so. There was no way Regier could allow Vanek to walk away with that offersheet a few weeks later. THAT is the reason why he kept Vanek. Not because Darcy jumped the gun and overpayed early to lock a guy up. It's because Regier knew that the fanbase couldn't swallowa third big name leaving in the same month after a huge success of a season. Hell, there are some fans who STILL complain about Drury this, and Briere that, 3+ seasons after the fact.

Plain and simple, Darcy had to retain Buffalo's most promising young forward . He had just had a 43 goal/84 point season and finished 1st in goals and 2nd on the team in points. Regardless of the overpayment of the offersheet. Regier HAD to match that.


You can argue he misjudged Pominville and overpayed based on a career year.
You can argue he hangs onto assets too long bringing down their value.
You can argue a piece or two of the "core" shouldn't be.

But he did nothing wrong and should take no blame for the Vanek issue. For all we know, Golisano/Quinn could have been "NO, match the sheet. We can't lose another merchandise money maker!"

Vito_81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2010, 05:32 PM
  #70
Lock3Boys
Ted's #1 Fan
 
Lock3Boys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: Ireland
Posts: 1,381
vCash: 500
I'm no Darcy apologist, but I sure as heck would rather have a GM with his approach, then say a Mike Keenan or Mike Milbury.

There is a fine line between aggressive and down right stupid, and I'm glad Darcy is nowhere near that line.

On the other hand, he is patient to a fault, and thinks way too highly of some of his players. I can't say I'd be any different though, it's hard when you have personal attachment to a player because you deal with him on a daily basis, something most of us don't experience. It's easy for us to detach ourselves emotionally, we haven't met said players wife, kid, parents etc.

I know it's a cut throat business, but I believe some GM's can detach themselves easier than others.

Lock3Boys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2010, 03:37 PM
  #71
Afino
The Juice
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Orchard Park, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 20,940
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito_81 View Post
I really wish people would stop including Vanek in discussions such as this. Buffalo had just lost thier two most popular forwards in the span of a day or so. There was no way Regier could allow Vanek to walk away with that offersheet a few weeks later. THAT is the reason why he kept Vanek. Not because Darcy jumped the gun and overpayed early to lock a guy up. It's because Regier knew that the fanbase couldn't swallowa third big name leaving in the same month after a huge success of a season. Hell, there are some fans who STILL complain about Drury this, and Briere that, 3+ seasons after the fact.

Plain and simple, Darcy had to retain Buffalo's most promising young forward . He had just had a 43 goal/84 point season and finished 1st in goals and 2nd on the team in points. Regardless of the overpayment of the offersheet. Regier HAD to match that.


You can argue he misjudged Pominville and overpayed based on a career year.
You can argue he hangs onto assets too long bringing down their value.
You can argue a piece or two of the "core" shouldn't be.

But he did nothing wrong and should take no blame for the Vanek issue. For all we know, Golisano/Quinn could have been "NO, match the sheet. We can't lose another merchandise money maker!"
To play devil's advocate here (not because I don't agree with you), he did make a tactical error in publicly declaring that he would match any offer sheet for Vanek.

Kevin Lowe probably tacked on another $10 million right then and there.

Afino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2010, 04:24 PM
  #72
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 56,675
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Afino View Post
To play devil's advocate here (not because I don't agree with you), he did make a tactical error in publicly declaring that he would match any offer sheet for Vanek.

Kevin Lowe probably tacked on another $10 million right then and there.
Vanek's agent had more than one team lined up to make an offer-sheet for his player. There was no option for Buffalo re-signing Thomas early, he was going the RFA offer-sheet route with his agent's influence all along.

Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2010, 04:39 PM
  #73
jlr
\m/o.o\m/
 
jlr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by K McDude View Post
I'm no Darcy apologist, but I sure as heck would rather have a GM with his approach, then say a Mike Keenan or Mike Milbury.
Talk about damning with faint praise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by K McDude View Post
There is a fine line between aggressive and down right stupid, and I'm glad Darcy is nowhere near that line.
It's about timing - there are times you need to be aggressive, if you want to win. If you never get close to that line, you aren't going to win it all. Darcy is either unwilling or incapable of doing that.


Last edited by jlr: 06-05-2010 at 04:46 PM.
jlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2010, 04:39 PM
  #74
Jeremy2020
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 1,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by K McDude View Post
I'm no Darcy apologist, but I sure as heck would rather have a GM with his approach, then say a Mike Keenan or Mike Milbury.

There is a fine line between aggressive and down right stupid, and I'm glad Darcy is nowhere near that line.
^this

What GM is this magical replacement? Do people really believe that any GM hired is going to be a guy who 'goes out and signs big free agents and then cuts them to sign more free agents' type of guy? It's not happening regardless of GM.

Jeremy2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2010, 04:45 PM
  #75
WhoIsJimBob
Circle the Bandwagon
 
WhoIsJimBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 16,276
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy2020 View Post
^this

What GM is this magical replacement? Do people really believe that any GM hired is going to be a guy who 'goes out and signs big free agents and then cuts them to sign more free agents' type of guy? It's not happening regardless of GM.
I would have been excited had the Sabres hired Steve Yzerman instead of Tampa Bay.

I've seen enough of Regier to think that the GM behind Door #2 might just increase the Sarbes' odds of winning a cup.

I don't think Regier has the killer instinct to get it done at this point.

WhoIsJimBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:47 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.