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Old
06-03-2010, 12:05 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by squishytomato View Post
Everyone thinks Nabby isn't an elite goalie, I somewhat agree and disagree



But us sharks fans have bad luck.


Watch next season Nabby sign with the Washington Capitals and carry them to the stanley cup
Nabby is an elite goalie during the season and then gets very streaky come play off time. As much as I'd like to keep him it just doesn't seem possible and he's going to demand more money than we'll offer. He could very well sign with the Capitals and take them to a cup. I just want to see the cap room we'll get from him to improve our D core

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06-03-2010, 03:33 PM
  #102
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Our D corp being crap is laughable. Nobody makes it to the WCF with a crap D. We were beat by the team most likely to win the SC and they are only there because of tanking and the CAP room it left to sign top talent while having Toews and Kane on the cheap.

Could our D be better? Of course. But we did what we did while spending to the CAP! The only argument to be made is that we were too top heavy CAP wise in JT/Heater/Marleau. But that doesn't take into account the exceptional deals I think we got in Nichols and Manny. The money we saved right there makes Heater a 5.5 Mil CAP guy if you wanna look at it that way, since all 3 were acquired this year.

Excellent job by the Sharks this year. We just ran into a team that got all the breaks one could hope for in a CAP constricted league.

Oh, and I hope we can find a way to keep Patty on the cheap and Nabby walks.
Again, compare our D to any that won the cup in the past 3 or 4 seasons.

"nobody makes it to the WCF with crap D". Not true. We face the avs- even crappier D, and Detroit's D is good but quickly aging. Their forwards still had plenty of breaks against our D as well, but we killed them with powerplays and a hot offense. Guess what happens when we face a stacked D? Swept...

Nabby bails out our D way more than people give him credit for. Best wishes to Greiss trying to fill those shoes next season.

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06-03-2010, 04:20 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by GuitarByte View Post
Again, compare our D to any that won the cup in the past 3 or 4 seasons.

"nobody makes it to the WCF with crap D". Not true. We face the avs- even crappier D, and Detroit's D is good but quickly aging. Their forwards still had plenty of breaks against our D as well, but we killed them with powerplays and a hot offense. Guess what happens when we face a stacked D? Swept...

Nabby bails out our D way more than people give him credit for. Best wishes to Greiss trying to fill those shoes next season.
Put a great defense in front of him and he won't need to bail anyone out. That's the entire rationale behind ditching Nabokov, that money goes toward the defense

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06-03-2010, 04:32 PM
  #104
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Put a great defense in front of him and he won't need to bail anyone out. That's the entire rationale behind ditching Nabokov, that money goes toward the defense
Every goalie bails out their team once in a while, it's called being human.

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06-03-2010, 04:33 PM
  #105
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Trade Clowe, Mitchell and Huskins
Get Kaberle + picks
Sign Martin

2010-11 SAN JOSE SHARKS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Logan Couture ($1.242m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / Dany Heatley ($7.500m)
* Patrick Marleau ($5.000m) / * Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / * Devin Setoguchi ($2.000m)
Jamie McGinn ($0.997m) / * Manny Malhotra ($1.500m) / * Owen Nolan ($0.800m)
John McCarthy ($0.550m) / * Scott Nichol ($0.750m) / * Jed Ortmeyer ($0.550m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / * Paul Martin ($4.500m)
* Thomas Kaberle ($4.250m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
Mike Moore ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
* Evgeni Nabokov ($4.000m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 22; CAP:$58.6m; PAYROLL: $59.254m; CAP ROOM: $0.061m BONUSES: $0.715m

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06-03-2010, 05:30 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by GuitarByte View Post
Nabby bails out our D way more than people give him credit for. Best wishes to Greiss trying to fill those shoes next season.
or alternatively,

Nabby has to bail out our D way more than he should. Best wishes to Greiss not having to fill those shoes because we have Xmil more in defense in front of him.

Don't get me wrong, personally I would like nothing more than to be able to keep Nabby, but we would be a much worse team than if we keep Patty. Nabby is simply so much easier to replace with something almost as good, but a better value.

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06-04-2010, 01:01 AM
  #107
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The answer to this is that there is simply nobody that can be acquired that will move Dustin Byfuglien from the front. Douglas Murray can't do it and there aren't many that are bigger than him. They had success in containing Tomas Holmstrom who has every bit of skill in front as anyone in the league. When a body like Byfuglien is in front, you have to cut the team off before they get set up to utilize the net presence.

There were plenty of problems with regards to the Sharks but most of it is due to the fact that Chicago was quicker to loose pucks. Quicker through the neutral zone and given time and space entering the zone. This defensive posture is due to an accepted disparity in team speed between the two teams.

The Sharks have decent speed. They don't have good enough speed to match up to this particular Hawks team who has quality speed all the way through their lineup.

I don't disagree with the thought of letting Nabby go for a worse goalie and improving the D in some capacity. I just don't think the team needs to get slower and losing Marleau will kill their team speed in pretty much every capacity and I don't think they can procure a suitable replacement for all the things Marleau brings with him.
I understand at the current moment that their is no one available for the job, however there is ways around it that I did not see the Sharks defense implement. They teach undersized defensemen like myself as soon as junior hockey that if someone is oversizing you infront of the net, get in front of them and do to them what they are doing to the goalie. Grab ice in front of them and block the puck before it gets to the screener and they get a chance to make a play. Seems simple enough, but it takes a tough player to take the bigger guys intimidation and **** in front of the net. This is a mental aspect of the game that the Sharks lacked.... a mental toughness that I spoke of previously.

If you ask me, the nuetral zone is the Sharks biggest problem. They are so bad at getting 3 men across the blue line at the same time. There passing is often horrible, them being unable to make the neccisary 2nd and 3rd passes to make something happen. I guess a lot of it boils down to speed. The general consencus seems to be the Shark need to get faster and tougher.

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06-04-2010, 01:15 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Mr.Bridge View Post
Decent speed? No. Outside of Marleau, McGinn, Seto, occasionally JT, Mitchell, and occasionally Nichol, the Sharks forwards are relatively slow. You are correct that no one could move Butt****er from the front of the net. Look at how Pronger is doing it: by playing with a toe over the line. No Shark wanted to do that. Douglas Murray has the size but not the agility. Nabokov did not assert himself much to find the puck either.



Before you cry out for a slice of Turco, go ask Stars fans what they think of him.

Just go do it.

Alex Auld was in net for them for 21 games. They traded for Kari Lehtonen.

Go ask.
The 5+ names you mentioned above qualify as decent speed IMO, which I credited to them. Nowhere have I ever said that they have good speed, only decent speed which is backed up by 3yrs of finishing #1 in the West.

Like I said before. I am just throwing around ideas. I'm not the GM, so my individual opinion ultimatley means nothing. Turco seems like a good fit to me, perhaps an elite goalie isn't what we need. What if the Sharks perform better in the playoffs because Turco is backed with a solid D and we dont have the pressure of being the #1 seed and the label of being chokers anymore? Just something to chew on, because I am sick of seeing Pacific Division Ttitles being bittersweetly dropped from the tank rafters every October.

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06-04-2010, 01:16 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by DROPxTHExGLOVES View Post
I understand at the current moment that their is no one available for the job, however there is ways around it that I did not see the Sharks defense implement. They teach undersized defensemen like myself as soon as junior hockey that if someone is oversizing you infront of the net, get in front of them and do to them what they are doing to the goalie. Grab ice in front of them and block the puck before it gets to the screener and they get a chance to make a play. Seems simple enough, but it takes a tough player to take the bigger guys intimidation and **** in front of the net. This is a mental aspect of the game that the Sharks lacked.... a mental toughness that I spoke of previously.

If you ask me, the nuetral zone is the Sharks biggest problem. They are so bad at getting 3 men across the blue line at the same time. There passing is often horrible, them being unable to make the neccisary 2nd and 3rd passes to make something happen. I guess a lot of it boils down to speed. The general consencus seems to be the Shark need to get faster and tougher.
The Sharks didn't implement that defense because the coaching staff chose not to...not because they aren't mentally tough. They didn't want a second body screening Nabokov. Plain and simple. It isn't a lack of mental toughness. Won't argue past that because I feel that mental toughness is too easy of a crutch for criticizers to point to. It wasn't a problem with this team in these playoffs.

They definitely need to get faster up front and on the blue line. I don't feel they need to get tougher at all. They were fine in that regard and it's overrated and overstated on these boards anyway. Most people don't even know what they're talking about with it.

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06-04-2010, 02:02 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
The Sharks didn't implement that defense because the coaching staff chose not to...not because they aren't mentally tough. They didn't want a second body screening Nabokov. Plain and simple. It isn't a lack of mental toughness. Won't argue past that because I feel that mental toughness is too easy of a crutch for criticizers to point to. It wasn't a problem with this team in these playoffs.

They definitely need to get faster up front and on the blue line. I don't feel they need to get tougher at all. They were fine in that regard and it's overrated and overstated on these boards anyway. Most people don't even know what they're talking about with it.
If that was the case, then shame on the coaching staff for not even attempting to try it. It sure is a better idea than just leaving Buffy The Shark Slayer's A** right in Nabby's face with no help whatsoever. Perhaps the coaches tried to tell the players this, but all of them failed in doing so because they were too busy habitually chasing the puck instead of standing their ground and trying to block it when it comes in their zone. I think that could be considered being mentally disciplined and tough.

I guess this is where we agree to disagree. Who is there to truly fear on the Sharks roster, Doug Murray? Not good enough IMO. After all, this is all just opinion.

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06-04-2010, 02:41 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by DROPxTHExGLOVES View Post
If that was the case, then shame on the coaching staff for not even attempting to try it. It sure is a better idea than just leaving Buffy The Shark Slayer's A** right in Nabby's face with no help whatsoever. Perhaps the coaches tried to tell the players this, but all of them failed in doing so because they were too busy habitually chasing the puck instead of standing their ground and trying to block it when it comes in their zone. I think that could be considered being mentally disciplined and tough.

I guess this is where we agree to disagree. Who is there to truly fear on the Sharks roster, Doug Murray? Not good enough IMO. After all, this is all just opinion.
And putting another body in front of Nabokov is just making it worse than it has to be. That's the choice coaches make when gameplanning. There's nothing wrong with that choice because it worked against Tomas Holmstrom. They were able to cut off the Wings attack before it got to the net for the most part. They didn't against Chicago. That's pretty much what it comes to. And the resolution for that is adding more speed to the lineup because that was where they consistently got beat.

Nobody fears Douglas Murray when you can just skate around him. This whole toughness spiel is vastly overrated. Toughness only matters when the skills and the speed match up. Toughness doesn't overcome a skill or speed deficiency. The toughest group of players in the world is going to get destroyed on the scoreboard by a team that is faster and more skilled than they are.

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06-04-2010, 10:44 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by DROPxTHExGLOVES View Post
The 5+ names you mentioned above qualify as decent speed IMO, which I credited to them. Nowhere have I ever said that they have good speed, only decent speed which is backed up by 3yrs of finishing #1 in the West.

Like I said before. I am just throwing around ideas. I'm not the GM, so my individual opinion ultimatley means nothing. Turco seems like a good fit to me, perhaps an elite goalie isn't what we need. What if the Sharks perform better in the playoffs because Turco is backed with a solid D and we dont have the pressure of being the #1 seed and the label of being chokers anymore? Just something to chew on, because I am sick of seeing Pacific Division Ttitles being bittersweetly dropped from the tank rafters every October.
I don't know why you and a couple other posters seem to think Marty Turco is the answer for the Sharks in net. The Stars traded for Alex Auld and Kari Lehtonen last season rather than put Turco in net. That D had better be more than solid.

I don't really see that as decent speed. It's spread around the forward lines and each line has a bit of an albatross on it.

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06-04-2010, 03:13 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
And putting another body in front of Nabokov is just making it worse than it has to be. That's the choice coaches make when gameplanning. There's nothing wrong with that choice because it worked against Tomas Holmstrom. They were able to cut off the Wings attack before it got to the net for the most part. They didn't against Chicago. That's pretty much what it comes to. And the resolution for that is adding more speed to the lineup because that was where they consistently got beat.

Nobody fears Douglas Murray when you can just skate around him. This whole toughness spiel is vastly overrated. Toughness only matters when the skills and the speed match up. Toughness doesn't overcome a skill or speed deficiency. The toughest group of players in the world is going to get destroyed on the scoreboard by a team that is faster and more skilled than they are.
100% agree.

******

As for everyone else who says that Nabokov isn't an elite goaltender, they don't know what they're talking about. He is. He may not be #1 or #2, he may not even be a HOF'er (I don't think so), but he's consistently in or near the Top 5 every year. And he is better than Turco (who also lets in his share of softies and hasn't really done much in the postseason either).

I know everyone loves to rip Nabby for the occasional soft goals he gives up. Newsflash: ALL goalies give up soft goals from time to time.

Did Nabokov have a stellar series against the Hawks? No. But he did have a stellar series against Detroit. And here's the funny part about that.....statistically speaking, Nabokov's numbers against Chicago (2.87 GAA, .906 SVPCT) were actually BETTER than his numbers against Detroit (3.37 GAA, .886 SVPCT).

So what was the major difference? How about twice as many goals for in the Wings series, even with fewer shots taken. Simply put, scoring 7 goals in 4 games will not win you many postseason series no matter who you have in net.


Now, having said all that and being one of Nabby's staunchest defenders......IMO, it is time for him to go. Not because he's not an elite goaltender, but simply because he's 35+ and in today's NHL you can't afford to have $5-6 million tied up in goaltending.....and old goaltending at that. It is an important position, but the difference between an elite $5mil goalie and the difference between a mediocre $500k goalie is simply not worth 10x the difference in salary. Now *maybe* if Nabby was 25, it might be worth it to pay that kind of money to guarantee yourself a solid-to-elite goalie for years to come. But at age 35, on the decline of his career, more susceptible to injury, sacrificing/delaying the development of the team's goaltenders of the future......no.

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06-04-2010, 03:48 PM
  #114
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And putting another body in front of Nabokov is just making it worse than it has to be. That's the choice coaches make when gameplanning. There's nothing wrong with that choice because it worked against Tomas Holmstrom. They were able to cut off the Wings attack before it got to the net for the most part. They didn't against Chicago. That's pretty much what it comes to. And the resolution for that is adding more speed to the lineup because that was where they consistently got beat.

Nobody fears Douglas Murray when you can just skate around him. This whole toughness spiel is vastly overrated. Toughness only matters when the skills and the speed match up. Toughness doesn't overcome a skill or speed deficiency. The toughest group of players in the world is going to get destroyed on the scoreboard by a team that is faster and more skilled than they are.
So Nabby is expected to make quality saves with another players A** right infront of his face? I respectfully disagree with that, they should have at least tried it before tossing the idea aside. It might have worked since the Sharks were slow to cut off the Hawks. I'm not saying speed wasnt a problem, but I stand by my opinion that the Sharks are just not strong/physical = Tough enough.

Perhaps it is a tad bit overated, but none the less it has its place in Hockey or it wouldnt get mentioned. Hockey is a tough guys sport and that is a fact. Knowing your going to get hit in the corner when collecting loose pucks exc. Comparing speed to toughness is like comparing apples and oranges, it just doesnt make sense. Both are needed to gain success.

Good conversation though.... Go Sharks!

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06-04-2010, 03:57 PM
  #115
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I'm hoping for a lot of 1 year contracts and extensions next year. Seto at 2.5, Marleau at 4.0, Nabby at 2.5. We'll extend you next year. j/k

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06-04-2010, 03:58 PM
  #116
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at this point, nabby is barely in the top 10 best goalies in the league. when you start questioning your goaltender this much, its time to move on.

patty marleau is one of the best things to happen to this franchise. this team rarely hits on high draft pick. lets not let this one get away. he should retire a shark.

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06-04-2010, 03:59 PM
  #117
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I don't know why you and a couple other posters seem to think Marty Turco is the answer for the Sharks in net. The Stars traded for Alex Auld and Kari Lehtonen last season rather than put Turco in net. That D had better be more than solid.

I don't really see that as decent speed. It's spread around the forward lines and each line has a bit of an albatross on it.
Turco with an improved defense appeals to me simply because I know what he can do, after all, he did outplay Nabby in O8 in the second round. Most noticably that triple overtime game that sent us packing. Turco is by no means an elite goalie, but he is smart and does not rely on pure reflex like Nabby does. Sure Dallas pulled him this year, but look at the Stars defense, it is atrocious.

At least half of our forwards have some speed, perhaps if the lines were tweaked it could be balanced out a little bit more.

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06-04-2010, 04:21 PM
  #118
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Turco with an improved defense appeals to me simply because I know what he can do, after all, he did outplay Nabby in O8 in the second round. Most noticably that triple overtime game that sent us packing. Turco is by no means an elite goalie, but he is smart and does not rely on pure reflex like Nabby does. Sure Dallas pulled him this year, but look at the Stars defense, it is atrocious.

At least half of our forwards have some speed, perhaps if the lines were tweaked it could be balanced out a little bit more.
It was actually 4OT, and when a game goes on that long; it's a genuine goaltenders' duel. The Stars didn't outplay the Sharks, Turco didn't outplay Nabokov.

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06-04-2010, 07:16 PM
  #119
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So Nabby is expected to make quality saves with another players A** right infront of his face? I respectfully disagree with that, they should have at least tried it before tossing the idea aside. It might have worked since the Sharks were slow to cut off the Hawks. I'm not saying speed wasnt a problem, but I stand by my opinion that the Sharks are just not strong/physical = Tough enough.

Perhaps it is a tad bit overated, but none the less it has its place in Hockey or it wouldnt get mentioned. Hockey is a tough guys sport and that is a fact. Knowing your going to get hit in the corner when collecting loose pucks exc. Comparing speed to toughness is like comparing apples and oranges, it just doesnt make sense. Both are needed to gain success.

Good conversation though.... Go Sharks!
Yes, Nabby is expected to make a quality save with screens in front of him. It's part of his job and it worked for them against Detroit. They had no reason to go with another plan. The screen in front wasn't really the determining factor either. The speed the team lacked kept them from collecting pucks in the attacking zone, skating through the neutral zone, stopping them in the neutral zone and at the blue line. They were chasing and losing ground to the Hawks the entire series.

As for toughness, I fully admitted it has a place in the game. Yes, the game's tough. I think every player gets that. You don't get to this point without being tough. You don't get to the Western Conference Finals without being tough. Saying it's apples and oranges is a cop out. It's just as easy to gauge a player's worth in this regard as it is to gauge a player's worth in the speed and skill regard. You need a defenseman that knows how to get a shot through from the point. However, if he's completely brain dead defensively and is slow in general, he's not worth it. Toughness isn't going to make up for getting skated around by the other team. That's what this series came down to. Toughness wasn't even a factor because they were beaten so badly up and down the ice by the Hawks' speed and skill.

You can get by with great speed and skill and a perceived lack of toughness. You can't get by without great speed and skill with a perceived abundance of toughness. Toughness, in today's NHL, is a luxury when putting together a team with the thought of winning the Cup. It can be taught and instilled into players if they buy into the coach's system. Speed cannot be taught and certain skills can't be either.

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06-05-2010, 01:53 PM
  #120
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Yes, Nabby is expected to make a quality save with screens in front of him. It's part of his job and it worked for them against Detroit. They had no reason to go with another plan. The screen in front wasn't really the determining factor either.
Yep. It's part of a goaltender's job to fight through a screen to find the puck, control it, and prevent rebounds from going right to the guy in front. It's also part of the defense's job to stay close enough to tie up his stick or clear the puck after the goalie makes the initial save.

One screen isn't easy to fight through, but it's part and parcel of being a good goaltender. Fighting through two screens is next to impossible. Putting a second body directly into the goalie's line of sight basically takes away any ability for him to make a save. At that point, it's all just about guessing and blind luck and just hoping that the puck hits something or goes wide.

Obviously it's a good idea to move the screening forward, but there are some guys (like Holmstrom and Byfuglien) who just won't be moved without taking a penalty. So if you can't move him far enough away and all your doing is just standing there and doubling the goaltender's loss of vision (and doubling the oportunities for an unstoppable carom or deflection), you're only serving to drastically decrease the odds of a save. By leaving that guy relatively alone in front (still close enough to defend against a pass or rebound) you turn the rest of the zone into a 4-on-5, can outnumber the opposing forwards in puck battles, and take away more of their time and space.

It's how they beat Detroit. They didn't execute as well against Chicago, and Chicago's speed allowed them to win those puck battles anyway.

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The speed the team lacked kept them from collecting pucks in the attacking zone, skating through the neutral zone, stopping them in the neutral zone and at the blue line. They were chasing and losing ground to the Hawks the entire series.
Constant turnovers at the blue line and needing 2-3 attempts to breakout of the zone didn't help either. Part of those turnovers were the result of the Hawks speed. Hell, the first goal of G2 was scored when Patrick Marleau lost a foot race for a loose puck to a guy who was laying down on the ice. Would've been a 2-on-none break, instead it was a neutral zone turnover and a goal against.

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06-05-2010, 07:50 PM
  #121
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Just talked to my friend who's aunt is apparently Patty's realtor. Anyway, supposedly Patty just bought a house down in LA.

I know its hear say, but if by chance this is correct, does that mean Patty's gone?

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06-05-2010, 08:02 PM
  #122
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by nicolalas View Post
Just talked to my friend who's aunt is apparently Patty's realtor. Anyway, supposedly Patty just bought a house down in LA.

I know its hear say, but if by chance this is correct, does that mean Patty's gone?
It is hearsay. It has been done before with confirmation on other players and was indicative of final destination.

Technically without DW's permission, Patty is not supposed to talk to anyone else before July 1. That means he should have received no commitment from Lombardi or the Ducks and that it is premature if the rumor is true. It can mean that those are the only two teams with which he will negotiate and that he won't be crossing any lines if no communication has taken place up to this point in time.

Realistically, DW likely knows right now whether or not Patty will be returning. It is for us to hear the explanations from both.

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06-06-2010, 03:24 AM
  #123
Minicoop831
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Originally Posted by nicolalas View Post
Just talked to my friend who's aunt is apparently Patty's realtor. Anyway, supposedly Patty just bought a house down in LA.

I know its hear say, but if by chance this is correct, does that mean Patty's gone?
Not cool news, can't imagine patty in that ugly uniform(puke)

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06-06-2010, 04:04 AM
  #124
baydrake
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Originally Posted by nicolalas View Post
Just talked to my friend who's aunt is apparently Patty's realtor. Anyway, supposedly Patty just bought a house down in LA.

I know its hear say, but if by chance this is correct, does that mean Patty's gone?
that would make me a sad panda.

okay, i have a confession. the details are a bit hazy but here goes:
i have an acquaintance that works in a real estate office whom i visit occasionally. one day for no reason whatsoever i decide to pull a fax out of the machine while waiting for him/her. it's some sort of sale paperwork for a crazy 8ish-million dollar place IIRC with a poolhouse that around here would likely be a multimillion dollar home in its own right. i'm pretty sure i actually made the wolf whistle noise.

i'm about to set it back down when i make out the (trustee?) signatures: patrick & christina marleau. this can't have been more than ~6 months ago. now, my brother has run into patty at the basketball courts near where the marleaus (used to?) live, so i remember at the time thinking, "oh, good. marleau intends to re-sign" and keeping it to myself. life moves fast in the pro sports world, though, so it's still possible of course that they'll be moving to LA.

i wouldn't give the address out here of course but a cursory search of what i think was the area on trulia reveals that a place very similar to what i remember this house being has been on the market for over 2 months. i'm convinced this is the place but can he really have known since late march/early april? =/

i'm hoping i somehow remembered something wrong, though, bc i don't want patty within the division if he goes =/

as an aside, the previous tenant of my last place in NYC was none other than henrik lundqvist. a few xmas cards addressed to him & his gf were accidentally delivered to me i have the weirdest luck with stumbling upon hockey-related stuff.


Last edited by baydrake: 06-06-2010 at 04:13 AM.
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06-06-2010, 11:49 AM
  #125
Gilligans Island
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Originally Posted by baydrake View Post
i wouldn't give the address out here of course but a cursory search of what i think was the area on trulia reveals that a place very similar to what i remember this house being has been on the market for over 2 months. i'm convinced this is the place but can he really have known since late march/early april? =/
wow, interesting, baydrake if true. patty's slump started right around the olympics until game 2 or 3 w/ the Wings. maybe he was mentally out of it, realizing he really was playing his last season as a shark.

patty is a class act, warts and all. yes, he's not a alpha leader but still is an incredible asset and would tough to lose, especially to the up and coming kings if that's where he lands.


Last edited by Gilligans Island: 06-06-2010 at 12:08 PM. Reason: edit: wrong quote
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