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Would European fans care if Canada and the US pulled out of the World Championships?

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Old
05-29-2010, 11:34 AM
  #26
ts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiyHockey View Post
Regarding the NHL "boycotting" the WC, who or what exactly is going to stop players from going? Will Bettman and his goons knock on Ovechkin's/Vokoun's/Stamkos'/etc. door and take their family away or something? If a player is eliminated from the playoffs and passes the medical, he should be able to represent his country if he wants to.
Well, if the NHL decide to prohibit their players to participate it could cause problems with insurance, so either the national teams or the player could have to pay for an extra insurance by themself. With such a physical sport and with the high salaries that would be really expensive for the federations or players, so I think they could decide to rather skip their participation.

I think at some point the German basketball team had that problem with Nowitzki, but I'm not sure about that, not a basketball fan.

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05-29-2010, 11:44 AM
  #27
Danish Pastry
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i hope we dont pull out... normally i dont follow the tourney but that is mainly due the playoffs and the horrible lack of coverage here in California i despise watching hockey on the computer i only do that if necessary...

and in non olympic years i think participation is higher from nhl'ers *not sure just a feeling someone could check i dont care enough to actually research it*

but i like the idea of just letting the Americans and Canadians who are playing out in Europe play in the tourney...

heck the way Bettman was talking yesterday who knows about nhl'ers in the olympics...

personally i want my players thinking about the playoffs and not worrying about the WC... honestly i dont want sharks players going to that tourney either too risky with the millions teams have invested in players... but that is me... i want to win the tourney but i dont want to send sharks... just send ducks players...

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05-29-2010, 12:06 PM
  #28
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No need to change anything. There are plenty of american and canadian NHLers who want to play in the World Championships every year, so we'll let them participate. It's a very valuable learning experience for guys like Tavares, Duchene and Stamkos who are expected to compete for an spot on the olympic team in 2014.

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05-29-2010, 12:30 PM
  #29
Salzig
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It would be a bitter pill to swallow.

This year's WC was just awesome for me. I saw many players I only knew from TV/the internet live. It was amazing to see players like Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Jagr, .... and for me Tim Kennedy and Tyler Myers live. That's why the WC is great for European fans, they have a chance to see the best players live. It's important for hockey to promote itself because soccer is a huge competitor in almost every European country. The best and easiest way to promote a sport is to show the sport in perfection on TV/in the arenas.

Moreover it doesn't make sense for Canada/the USA to stop playing at the WC's. If people don't care they can blow the tournament and no one would be offended at this. Canada doesn't have to win the tournament. I think it was a good idea to send young players like Tavares, Duchene, Myers, Stamkos, Kane,... to Europe among some established NHLers like Perry, Burns and Whitney. It's doesn't hurt the development of these young players and other Canadians like Whitney, Burns or Mason have a chance to present their home country. I think Canada doesn't have a disadvantage if they participate in the WC. As long as people don't care, they don't have to win. If people started to care, they would send their best players and would most likely finnish with a medal.

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05-29-2010, 12:37 PM
  #30
therealdeal
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Why would Canada or the US do this? As long as the IIHF shuts their stupid mouth and stops complaining about players not coming over there is no reason to pull out.

Its a good tournament and its fun year to year. People care way too much about whose there and whose not. Get over it Canada and US fans.

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05-29-2010, 12:46 PM
  #31
Mr Kanadensisk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Makarov View Post
If Canada and USA don't want to take part in the WC, it's ok. But that would mean also to renounce to the Olympics and the WJC.
The Olympics would present an interesting dilema under this scenario. If the IIHF/IOC want the NHL to participate they would have to find a way to accomodate the NA teams. I think we would both agree that the NHL would not participate in the OG if Canada and the US were not in the tournament. If the NHL was not participating in the OG, then same as the IHWC I would rather not send a team than send something less than our best.

As for the WJC I don't really see how that comes into play unless you're suggesting Canada and the US would be kicked out out of spite.

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05-29-2010, 01:50 PM
  #32
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Im an European fan and I don't care about this thread, I haven't read it.

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05-29-2010, 03:14 PM
  #33
RusskiyHockey
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Originally Posted by Snauen View Post
Im an European fan and I don't care about this thread, I haven't read it.
Good for you. Why reply in it then?

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05-29-2010, 03:16 PM
  #34
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This sort of thing demonstrates there are hockey fans and there are NHL fans. I'm glad to be a hockey fan.

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05-29-2010, 05:03 PM
  #35
Tomas W
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Of course we would care, because we would lose a good chunk of the hockeyworld for the championship, how would that be a good thing for anyone??

The problem with the world champs is that it is held to OFTEN. It should NOT be a WC during a olympic year!

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05-29-2010, 07:14 PM
  #36
DoyleG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
The Olympics would present an interesting dilemma under this scenario. If the IIHF/IOC want the NHL to participate they would have to find a way to accommodate the NA teams. I think we would both agree that the NHL would not participate in the OG if Canada and the US were not in the tournament. If the NHL was not participating in the OG, then same as the IHWC I would rather not send a team than send something less than our best.

As for the WJC I don't really see how that comes into play unless you're suggesting Canada and the US would be kicked out out of spite.
Going to the second point, you can't really expect the IIHF to let you into some tournaments while not being part of others.

The problem is that the IIHF isn't going to be over and do the NHL's bidding on this matter. They can do so because the NHL is in a far more weaker position given its inability to constantly commit to the Olympics or to have a standard for international player transfers.

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05-29-2010, 09:09 PM
  #37
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I'm a Canadian fan. I would be very unhappy if Canada or the United States, or any other significant country, left this tournament. The hockey at the tournament is entertaining. Removing two of the high quality teams from the tournament only means that there will be fewer entertaining hockey games each year. I would guess that most European fans would feel the same way, although they could probably do without some of the overly whiny North American fans.

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05-29-2010, 09:22 PM
  #38
Wham City
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per HNIC, Brian Burke will propose at the next GM meetings that no NHL players shall play in the World Championships in an Olympic year. This will be voted on by the GM's at some point, but even if the GM"s take this position it has to be collectively bargained into the next CBA with the NHLPA.

The second thing that was mentioned is that the NHL wants to have a quardennial World Cup starting in 2012. The schedule they showed looked like this.

2012 World Cup
2013 World Championship
2014 Olympics
2015 World Championship
2016 World Cup
etc.

This is the NHL's position, if this schedule comes to pass is another matter. The NHLPA has interests, the IIHF has interests, should be interesting to see what happens on this issue at the hockey summit in Toronto this summer.

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05-29-2010, 09:42 PM
  #39
yunost
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This is kind of a dumb threat. It seems that there are lots of isolated NHL fans that have problems understanding that team USA and Canada are not suited up by the NHL. Hockey Canada, and USA Hockey are not NHL, but rather are full members of the IIHF, therefore, they actually wouldnt even consider the dumb suggestion of not having representatives at an event there members of.
Frankly it has nothing to do with the NHL boycott of the WHC, because that is a different organization, and the 2 hockey federations would still suit up a team - there is no reason not to.
Seems to me that some people are just upset that they performed so bad at this event, since this would probably not have been asked after Canada won gold.

Having the NHL boycott the games also sounds kind of stupid especially now.
1) It is an honor to be part of/represent your national team, mores(for some people) than your NHL club.
2) Canada represents 50% of NHL players while USA 25%. There are 14 teams that just physically will not play in the playoffs thats plenty of players avalable. I have no idea what Bettman is blabbing about with the 'tired' risking olympic players, but im pretty sure there are dozens of Canadian/American players not in the olympics that would be Happy to play for their country.
3) Finally you -cant- really stop NHL players right now from playing in international events like WC.

For example, Ovechkin signed a 10 year contract at the time NHL -WAS- participating at the international event. So he put his signature there expecting to play for his national team. Having the NHL stop him play would be a breach of contract. You cant just change the terms midway. Same goes for anyone else. Be it Crosby or Parise.

I dont understand this leash that the NHL wants around each player's neck...hockey is hockey

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05-29-2010, 10:44 PM
  #40
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The NHLPA wouldn't agree to this - there is no reason for them to agree to LIMIT their players' freedom. Why would the NHLPA agree to this? Many NHLers want to play in the World Hockey Championships, particularly European players.

It has no chance of happening.

And, as someone has pointed out, Hockey Canada and USA Hockey are not NHL-run but part of the IIHF. With the WHC being their "premiere" event, there is no chance that these two national bodies would pull out of the WHC because the communications director at the IIHF wrote a meanie article.

This talk also shows HUGE disrespect for the other nations, particularly those outside the top 10, who are constantly struggling to improve the quality of hockey in their own countries, and who desperately need this kind of event to allow for development.

Removing Canadian, American, and NHL participation from the WHC would hurt everyone - except the team owners who are more concerned with keeping their high-paid employees healthy enough to work.

Anyone who supports this idea is not a hockey fan, plain and simple. Canadians who are talking like this should be ashamed of themselves. Go enjoy your Atlanta vs. Dallas hockey games and leave the rest of us true hockey fans alone. Stop trying to change what we love and you don't care about in the first place.

Bettman and Burke sound like the typical "Ugly American", except they are being obnoxious and ignorant from the comfort of their own country.

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05-29-2010, 11:02 PM
  #41
Wham City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricG View Post
The NHLPA wouldn't agree to this - there is no reason for them to agree to LIMIT their players' freedom. Why would the NHLPA agree to this? Many NHLers want to play in the World Hockey Championships, particularly European players.

It has no chance of happening.

And, as someone has pointed out, Hockey Canada and USA Hockey are not NHL-run but part of the IIHF. With the WHC being their "premiere" event, there is no chance that these two national bodies would pull out of the WHC because the communications director at the IIHF wrote a meanie article.

This talk also shows HUGE disrespect for the other nations, particularly those outside the top 10, who are constantly struggling to improve the quality of hockey in their own countries, and who desperately need this kind of event to allow for development.

Removing Canadian, American, and NHL participation from the WHC would hurt everyone - except the team owners who are more concerned with keeping their high-paid employees healthy enough to work.

Anyone who supports this idea is not a hockey fan, plain and simple. Canadians who are talking like this should be ashamed of themselves. Go enjoy your Atlanta vs. Dallas hockey games and leave the rest of us true hockey fans alone. Stop trying to change what we love and you don't care about in the first place.

Bettman and Burke sound like the typical "Ugly American", except they are being obnoxious and ignorant from the comfort of their own country.
The NHL may want to go to Sochi in 2014 but that doesn't mean they won't use it as a bargaining chip. At the same time a World Cup is in the NHL and NHLPA's interest, and thus I wouldn't be surprised to see a quadrennial tournament formalized in the next CBA. Is it crazy to think the NHLPA would agree to no World Championship participation in Olympic and World Cup years? Maybe, but then again who thought they'd ever agree to a salary cap either.


Last edited by Wham City: 05-30-2010 at 12:19 AM.
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Old
05-30-2010, 05:54 AM
  #42
Mr Kanadensisk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yunost View Post
This is kind of a dumb threat. It seems that there are lots of isolated NHL fans that have problems understanding that team USA and Canada are not suited up by the NHL. Hockey Canada, and USA Hockey are not NHL, but rather are full members of the IIHF, therefore, they actually wouldnt even consider the dumb suggestion of not having representatives at an event there members of.
Frankly it has nothing to do with the NHL boycott of the WHC, because that is a different organization, and the 2 hockey federations would still suit up a team - there is no reason not to.
Seems to me that some people are just upset that they performed so bad at this event, since this would probably not have been asked after Canada won gold.

Having the NHL boycott the games also sounds kind of stupid especially now.
1) It is an honor to be part of/represent your national team, mores(for some people) than your NHL club.
2) Canada represents 50% of NHL players while USA 25%. There are 14 teams that just physically will not play in the playoffs thats plenty of players avalable. I have no idea what Bettman is blabbing about with the 'tired' risking olympic players, but im pretty sure there are dozens of Canadian/American players not in the olympics that would be Happy to play for their country.
3) Finally you -cant- really stop NHL players right now from playing in international events like WC.

For example, Ovechkin signed a 10 year contract at the time NHL -WAS- participating at the international event. So he put his signature there expecting to play for his national team. Having the NHL stop him play would be a breach of contract. You cant just change the terms midway. Same goes for anyone else. Be it Crosby or Parise.

I dont understand this leash that the NHL wants around each player's neck...hockey is hockey
Hockey Canada has withdrawn from the IWHC in the past and your point about Ovy's contract is wrong. Even if it is a 10 year contract it will still be subject to the new collective agreement and if the new CA barred NHLers from participating then there would be no breach of contract.

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05-30-2010, 10:23 AM
  #43
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Canada and USA won't leave and have no reason too. They both tend to use the tournament to develop young players and to give veterans and other players a chance to play for their country.

Also, could you imagine how both teams IIHF ranking would drop? It wouldn't be worth it at all...

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05-30-2010, 01:16 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I don't get the point of this thread.

Is there some movement I'm not aware of in the Canadian and American hockey associations to do this?

Why would either one pull out?
Obviously they would pull out because a couple of clueless fans want them to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ts View Post
Why not just make it like the mid 90s, where Canada and the USA played at the WC but mostly with pros from European leagues?
Canada in the 90s always had an almost all-NHL roster at the Worlds, outside the 95 lockout season. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_team_rosters for full rosters

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Old
05-30-2010, 06:57 PM
  #45
DoyleG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
Hockey Canada has withdrawn from the IWHC in the past and your point about Ovy's contract is wrong. Even if it is a 10 year contract it will still be subject to the new collective agreement and if the new CA barred NHLers from participating then there would be no breach of contract.
Canada pulled out at a time when the IIHF refused to allow any pros to play. This was when the NHL was only start to come out of the O6 era and the rosters were quite static.

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05-31-2010, 05:32 AM
  #46
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Old
05-31-2010, 02:16 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ts View Post
What about the olympic games then? Are you willing to play in qualifiying rounds so that Canada/Usa can participate at the OG?

Why not just make it like the mid 90s, where Canada and the USA played at the WC but mostly with pros from European leagues? It was enough to stay in the A group and for Canada to win a medal sometimes (well, most of the time, the USA got relegated once) and if you don't care about the tournement, then it doesn't matter if Canada has a chance to win or will only finish 4th/5th...
Canada has never sent a team comprised "mostly" with pros from European leagues. There have been years where they have augmented their roster with a few Euro-based pros, but since the IIHF started allowing NHL players to participate, the overwhelming majority of the players have been members of NHL clubs who had been eliminated from the playoffs.

It would be terrible for that to be the norm. Canada would wind up fighting for 8th-10th every year and the IIHF would lose a significant draw: the opportunity for its European fans to see top flight NHL players.

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05-31-2010, 03:13 PM
  #48
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Well the IIHF made their bed with that stupid article they put out a couple weeks ago and now they have to lie in it.

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05-31-2010, 04:34 PM
  #49
RusskiyHockey
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Well the IIHF made their bed with that stupid article they put out a couple weeks ago and now they have to lie in it.
So you're saying that one stupid article (which has been apologized for and withdrawn) is more important than an eighty-year old global tradition, the wishes of hundreds of players to represent their country when they're available, and the enthusiasm that millions of hockey fans (not just in Europe, but also in North America) have for the tournament? Talk about an overreaction!

In any case, I can't imagine Hockey Canada and USA Hockey, not to mention the European federations, allowing an NHL boycott without a fight. If Bettman and the NHL GMs want to entrench a rift in international hockey, it will be their loss and a boost to the KHL and European leagues. Who is going to tell Ovechkin & co. "If you're out of the playoffs, you can golf, but you can't play for Russia!" Keep in mind, it's the national federations that pay for players' insurance for the WC, not the clubs.

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06-05-2010, 09:28 PM
  #50
afrobomber11
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As long as people don't care, they don't have to win. If people started to care, they would send their best players and would most likely finnish with a medal.
we love to win

we need to win at all levels, there was a high in the country in 02-05

we were the winners of: world cup 04. the 02 olympics. the 04 world championships. the 05 juniors. and even the ladies had the 02 olympics and silver at the world championships and until the czechs beat us in 05 at the world championships we were top of the world of hockey in every event

we go into every tournament to win and when we dont its a case of how do we fix it

even silver the team gets overanalyzed

we care

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