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Hurricanes to move to the #2 spot in the draft?

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Old
06-07-2010, 01:39 AM
  #1
Rink Rage
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Hurricanes to move to the #2 spot in the draft?

Luke Decock of the Raleigh News & Observer: Could the Hurricanes look to move up from he #7 spot to one of the top-2 draft spots? They have 11 picks in this years NHL draft. The Bruins are tight financially (cap wise) and could to shed some cap space. The ‘Canes could send a 2nd round pick or two, and a lower priced player (Chad LaRose) to move up. The Hurricanes could look to drafting a defenseman, regardless of where they are picking. The team on a whole hasn’t had much luck drafting out recently unless it’s from the OHL or WHL.

Thoughts?

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06-07-2010, 02:02 AM
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We'd kill for Seguin/Hall, but I highly doubt it. That train left when Staal and Ward realized it was time for them to carry this team out of the basement.

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06-07-2010, 02:07 AM
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We would have to give up A LOT more than two 2nds and Larose to get the 2nd. It would be more like our first, our 2nd, one of the other 2nds/3rds, Boychuk/Dalpe/Bowman/whatever else it would take. I think it's more likely we move up to picks 3, 4, or 5.

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06-07-2010, 02:19 AM
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I almost think Boston *has* to keep that pick as an homage to the Phil Kessel trade. In addition, Seguin and Hall have confirmed that the only teams that have brought them in for one on one interviews have been Edmonton and Boston.... as if it were a foregone conclusion that those were the only two players at the table. Boston is enamored with one of the defenders in this draft and would like to package their own pick, 15th, with perhaps the 32nd in order to get back into the Top 8 picks depending upon how the draft goes from 3-7. That is the only concrete thing we've heard from Boston.

In this draft there are two top guns, four pop guns, and 10 or 11 pea shooters. The rest is anybody's guess. At 7th overall, the best we can hope for is that one of those pop guns falls to 7th so we don't have to draft the best pea shooter available.

This may be one of the harder drafts in recent memory to trade from the late single digits and the teens into the top 6 picks. As per usual Hurricanes standards, we landed 7th in a 6 man battle.

My only hope is that the wildcard comes into play, being Campbell, and throws the whole works down one peg. If he goes Top 6, we'll get a player we need. If not, we'll get a prospect.

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06-07-2010, 07:53 AM
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I follow the Bruins and their media closely and I can say with confidence that there is absolutely no chance that the Canes trade into this position. Chiarelli has repeatedly stated that he is not planning to move down, and they're currently talking to Edmonton about what it would take to move up. The only assets we have that would even make the Bruins think twice are Staal and Sutter, and obviously we're not moving either of them for a draft pick.

The fact that Decock throws out Larose and a 2nd is just ludicrous. That's not even close to fair value.

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06-07-2010, 08:30 AM
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I don't think theres much of a chance Boston gives up either Hall or Seguin. Especially since they were the 2nd lowest scoring team in the entire league last season.

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06-07-2010, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I follow the Bruins and their media closely and I can say with confidence that there is absolutely no chance that the Canes trade into this position. Chiarelli has repeatedly stated that he is not planning to move down, and they're currently talking to Edmonton about what it would take to move up. The only assets we have that would even make the Bruins think twice are Staal and Sutter, and obviously we're not moving either of them for a draft pick.

The fact that Decock throws out Larose and a 2nd is just ludicrous. That's not even close to fair value.
The fact DeCock wrote that article makes me wonder if the Canes are talking about moving up to 3 or 5. Columbus won't move from 4, they are in perfect position to get an offensive defenseman they've needed for some time. I can see the Islanders moving back from 5 to 7 for a pick, especially if they prefer one of the forwards to the remaining defenseman.

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06-07-2010, 08:53 AM
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This won't happen. There is simply no way. And I'm not even sure it's worthwhile. Luke talks about a 1-2-3 at center of Staal-Sutter-Seguin, which to me sets up a Penguins-like shortage of ice-time at center. Plus, don't we have very high hopes for Zac Dalpe?

Luke also keeps bringing up the price to move up to get Ladd. It's an apples-to-oranges comparison and is pretty much insulting to anybody who knows anything. The cost to trade up is relative to the players involved. It only cost Pittsburgh a tiny amount to move up from 3 to 1 to get Fleury in 2003 because there were three elite guys, and Florida wanted Horton. They knew Pittsburgh wanted Fleury and Carolina wanted Staal, so Pittsburgh didn't have to give much to move up. Carolina didn't have to give much to move from 8 to 4 in 2004 because Columbus didn't like the options at No. 4 (with good reason, that draft sucked after OV, Geno and, to a much lesser extent, Barker). Even Luke has to agree that the price to move up to get Andrew Ladd will be much less than the price to move up to get Tyler Seguin, no?

All of this basically guarantees the Canes will give up too much to get the Plymouth Whalers guy. This team frustrates me to no end.

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06-07-2010, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post

The fact that Decock throws out Larose and a 2nd is just ludicrous. That's not even close to fair value.
Just to be clear, he was also including the #7 pick.

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With the Bruins' salary-cap problems, adding a bonus-heavy rookie contract may not be the best idea. Moving down a few picks to take a player who isn't immediately NHL-ready would delay the financial impact. The Hurricanes might be able to offer them a second-round pick or two and a player with a reasonable salary - Chad LaRose? - to switch places.

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06-07-2010, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
This won't happen. There is simply no way. And I'm not even sure it's worthwhile. Luke talks about a 1-2-3 at center of Staal-Sutter-Seguin, which to me sets up a Penguins-like shortage of ice-time at center. Plus, don't we have very high hopes for Zac Dalpe?
Well, I'd say it has worked pretty well for the Pens, salary problems or not. Also, I'm not 100% sold Dalpe plays center when he gets here because that would mean he's centering the 3rd line which doesn't really match his skill set, but who knows what they will do with him when that time comes.

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All of this basically guarantees the Canes will give up too much to get the Plymouth Whalers guy. This team frustrates me to no end.
Huh, guarantees? That's a strong word. From everything Chiarelli has sai d, they're going to hold onto the pick anyway.

I'd stop putting the cart before the horse and actually let the offseason play out before you get frustrated. But that's just me.

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06-07-2010, 09:35 AM
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Can someone clear up something for me - Vagrant and a few others mentioned that in this draft the Canes are 7th in a 6 man race , so-to-speak. I had thought (according to JR) that there were at least 7 top picks - Hall, Seguin, Fowler, Gormley, Gudbranson, Connolly and Niederreiter - to be followed by Johansen and Granlund. Who is being knocked out of that top 7? Since Hall and Seguin are realistically out of reach, rather than burning our 2nd rounders, wouldn't one of the 3 defensemen or Connolly/Niederreiter be just as solid a pick for the Canes at #7?

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06-07-2010, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfofthesteppes View Post
Just to be clear, he was also including the #7 pick.

Link
Yes, just to be clear what I meant... Larose and a 2nd is nowhere near enough to even make Boston consider trading back from 2nd overall to 7th overall. In reality the trade would be Larose+2nd+Nino/etc for Seguin. Not close.
Quote:
This won't happen. There is simply no way. And I'm not even sure it's worthwhile. Luke talks about a 1-2-3 at center of Staal-Sutter-Seguin, which to me sets up a Penguins-like shortage of ice-time at center.
Not to mention a potential salary cruch 5 years down the road when we're committing something like $20 million to the center position alone. It will be much like the Pens' situation, except nowhere near as good. IMO this article was just not well thought-out or researched at all.

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06-07-2010, 10:22 AM
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My guess is that we are looking to move up to the #5 spot by moving our #7 and a 2nd rounder and maybe something else

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06-07-2010, 10:32 AM
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Well, I'd say it has worked pretty well for the Pens, salary problems or not. Also, I'm not 100% sold Dalpe plays center when he gets here because that would mean he's centering the 3rd line which doesn't really match his skill set, but who knows what they will do with him when that time comes.


Huh, guarantees? That's a strong word. From everything Chiarelli has sai d, they're going to hold onto the pick anyway.

I'd stop putting the cart before the horse and actually let the offseason play out before you get frustrated. But that's just me.
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06-07-2010, 10:54 AM
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luke is just drumming up some summer interest. speculating we'll do our homework on if we can move up, which i think we will. make the calls anyway.

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06-07-2010, 11:05 AM
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I could see teams moving out of 4-6 if the price was right. This group of defensman while good, arent the elite group like the Doughty Bogosian group was. And if you dont seem much difference among the second group of forwards it ouwld make sense to drop back. Of course this would all depend on JR believing one of the D group is elite and worth the extra asset to move up. Personally i think Tampa will move out if possible, though it wont be with us. They have alot of holes to fill among the forwards, smells like a pick and a young player to me.

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06-07-2010, 12:02 PM
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We could use maybe our 2011 picks for this year? I heard it was a really weak draft class next year. We should bank on 2010?

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06-07-2010, 01:38 PM
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I'd rather us trade for a player and move back to the 10-15th than move up at the cost of any of our 2nd rounders. I know Boston fan's keep speculating that they'd move to the 3rd. I wonder if they'd have any interest in the 7.

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06-07-2010, 06:06 PM
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Can someone clear up something for me - Vagrant and a few others mentioned that in this draft the Canes are 7th in a 6 man race , so-to-speak. I had thought (according to JR) that there were at least 7 top picks - Hall, Seguin, Fowler, Gormley, Gudbranson, Connolly and Niederreiter - to be followed by Johansen and Granlund. Who is being knocked out of that top 7? Since Hall and Seguin are realistically out of reach, rather than burning our 2nd rounders, wouldn't one of the 3 defensemen or Connolly/Niederreiter be just as solid a pick for the Canes at #7?
I think most people have it more of a five man race, and the Canes will be picking from the leftovers of Connoly, Nino, Johansen and Granlund.

I can't think of a conceivable trade we could make to get one of the top two picks, and IMO none of the big 3 d-men are THAT much better to make it worthwhile trading up. Knowing our luck with drafting lottery pick defense-men, we would pick the one guy out of three that ends up getting ten concussions in juniors or something.

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06-07-2010, 08:52 PM
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I can't think of a conceivable trade we could make to get one of the top two picks, and IMO none of the big 3 d-men are THAT much better to make it worthwhile trading up. Knowing our luck with drafting lottery pick defense-men, we would pick the one guy out of three that ends up getting ten concussions in juniors or something.
unless that trade meant getting Sammy or Roddy off our books as add ins on the trade to move up, which I could see as maybe only a slight possibility, then I would be fine with that lol

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06-07-2010, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
Off.
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Sorry but your extreme pessimism on just about everything they do is hilarious when we haven't got to UFA or the draft. You think JR is horrible (and he is, SOMETIMES) but you don't realize many teams would kill to have the success we had over the last decade. 3 playoffs, 3 ECFs, 2 Cup finals and 1 Cup win are a lot more than most teams have.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

Have a little faith, geez.

I normally don't do these type of posts but if you think I'm just out to argue with you all the time for no reason, you are mistaken. I just happen to disagree with you on just about everything... if you don't want to address my posts, fine.. then put me on ignore or something.


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06-07-2010, 11:01 PM
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I'll be fine with us taking a big 3 defenseman, but ideally I think we should go for a top line winger. With all of our picks, I think we can find a couple gems beyond the first round. I think guys like Merrill, Gauthier-Leduc, MacKenzie, Faulk, Alm, etc. all have a strong set of skills and all have potential to break out next season, similar to guys like Barrie and Elliott this season.

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06-08-2010, 07:51 AM
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draft or trade pick for a scoring wing--us drafting a d man is a futile exercise--JR's track record proves it

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06-10-2010, 12:57 PM
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totalkev
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Originally Posted by Erik Stall View Post


Sorry but your extreme pessimism on just about everything they do is hilarious when we haven't got to UFA or the draft. You think JR is horrible (and he is, SOMETIMES) but you don't realize many teams would kill to have the success we had over the last decade. 3 playoffs, 3 ECFs, 2 Cup finals and 1 Cup win are a lot more than most teams have.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

Have a little faith, geez.

I normally don't do these type of posts but if you think I'm just out to argue with you all the time for no reason, you are mistaken. I just happen to disagree with you on just about everything... if you don't want to address my posts, fine.. then put me on ignore or something.
Yeah, yeah. I know we've had three deep playoff runs, and as a former Whalers fan, I really do appreciate it. I was there for Game 7 in 2006 and I got to see my team lift the Cup. Not many fans can say that, and I will be forever grateful.

But we've also missed the playoffs five of the past seven seasons since the 2002 run to the Final. Our scouting budget is embarrassing. We cheaped out and split an AHL team for many years. We nickel and dime our guys during their productive RFA years, only to overpay them massively once they reach UFA status and their production declines.

Many of the problems leading to these bad seasons were easily preventable by a GM who understands the nature of building a team. The worst thing to me about these struggles is that Rutherford continues to do the same thing over and over expecting different results. We continue to basically ignore Europe in our scouting, we continue to overpay for veterans, we continue to put up with a losing coach, we continue to giftwrap important minutes to vets and we continue to give few prospects legitimate chances to play in key situations on top lines.

IT DOESN'T WORK!!

Once is a mistake, twice is bad, three times is inexcusable. But three times, Rutherford has brought back a veteran team after a long playoff run, and three times they have finished at the bottom of the league.

Now, all signs point to a similar offseason, filled with the inability of JR to do anything to address the team's obvious weaknesses.

You can agree or not, but it shouldn't be that hard to make the playoffs. It shouldn't be that hard to *return* to the playoffs after reaching the Eastern Conference Final, yet we're 0-for-3 in that situation, once managing to finish DEAD LAST (and it was *NOT* on Peter Laviolette's watch that that particular disater occurred, Mr. Karmanos).

So you can point at the budget, or you can point at three successful seasons, but none of it changes the fact that I don't personally feel that Rutherford is doing what he should be doing to get us to the point of consistently make playoff appearances. He's created a "country-club" atmosphere around the entire organization, which extends to the obvious nepotism in the front office (Jason Karmanos as the asst. GM despite quitting at one point), the obliviousness to the laughingstock that is Tripp Tracy, and the desire to continue to pay former players (Francis, Wesley, Barrasso, Rowe, Daniels, Brindy sure to come later -- to that point that we have more assistant coaches and associate coaches than any team in the league).

We could save Karmanos millions if we got down to a head coach and two assistants like every other team in the league. We could save millions if we scouted better. We could save millions by not giving ridiculous contracts to fan favorites who clearly don't have it anymore.

My fear is that JR is going to sign Whitney, once the UFA period starts slowly for Ray (see Cole, Erik and LaRose, Chad). I fear that JR will start the season with Brind'Amour in the lineup (and poisoning the locker room). I fear that whichever youngsters are lucky enough to break camp with the team will be relegated to third- and fourth-line duty while Cole scores two goals on Staal's right wing in the first three months of the season.

Sorry, but I'm not pessimistic for the sake of being pessimistic. I'm down because I'm tired of sitting here watching this team go down the same road time after time. I think it looks like we're headed there again. If you don't think so, then I think you're being overly optimistic. To each his own.

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06-10-2010, 03:30 PM
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Sounds like someone is a masochist.

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