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Old
06-07-2010, 09:43 PM
  #301
William H Bonney
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
That's a massive overpayment imo.

Massive. But that's just me.
It's not just you.

Plus, making that trade (which would wipe out our prospect pool) and taking on a floater's $7 million cap hit and adding Kovy to a long term deal would mean a lot of our younger players would be on the way out too.

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06-07-2010, 09:44 PM
  #302
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I'd do, Stoll, Williams, Teubert and Moller, and a 2nd for Spezza and a warm body.

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06-07-2010, 09:45 PM
  #303
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So, you wouldn't do that deal? Which would you add/subtract for Spezza?
I would not at all. His contract sucks for the player he is.

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06-07-2010, 09:46 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
I'd do, Stoll, Williams, Teubert and Moller, and a 2nd for Spezza and a warm body.
But why would the Sens do that? We're talking about their #1 center here. Schenn has to be the center piece to the trade.

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06-07-2010, 09:47 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
But why would the Sens do that? We're talking about their #1 center here. Schenn has to be the center piece to the trade.
Some Sens fans are under the impression that they need to fill out their roster. Stoll, Williams and Moller help accomplish that.

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06-07-2010, 09:47 PM
  #306
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That's a tough one. I'd consider it, depending on what that warm body brings to the table. Even still, that's a really tough trade to make given Spezza's contract, although he is much better than what Stoll and Williams have given us, unfortunately. At that point it comes down to what you think of Teubert and Moller. Also, I'd want to drop the pick.

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06-07-2010, 09:48 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
I'd do, Stoll, Williams, Teubert and Moller, and a 2nd for Spezza and a warm body.
Depending on the warm body I wouldn't even go that far.

The Dany Heatley trade would be my comparable and that fetched Ottawa Michalek, Cheechoo and a 2nd.

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06-07-2010, 09:51 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Some Sens fans are under the impression that they need to fill out their roster. Stoll, Williams and Moller help accomplish that.
Hey, if we can get it done with your proposal, I'm all for it. That's a no brainer imo.

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06-07-2010, 09:53 PM
  #309
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Some of these proposals for Spezza are bad....his value is ~Kopi's (little less imo) who hear would trade Kopi for a couple 2/3rd liners and a prospect that now has question marks????

Imo fair value is our first this year, one of schenn/Hickey/Loki/Voinov, and a roster player of Stoll/JW/Richie(and a 2nd if for Richie)

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06-07-2010, 09:56 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Some of these proposals for Spezza are bad....his value is ~Kopi's (little less imo) who hear would trade Kopi for a couple 2/3rd liners and a prospect that now has question marks????

Imo fair value is our first this year, one of schenn/Hickey/Loki/Voinov, and a roster player of Stoll/JW/Richie(and a 2nd if for Richie)
Each situation isn't close to comparable.

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06-07-2010, 09:56 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Hey, if we can get it done with your proposal, I'm all for it. That's a no brainer imo.
Not saying it'd work, but I wouldn't offer more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Some of these proposals for Spezza are bad....his value is ~Kopi's (little less imo) who hear would trade Kopi for a couple 2/3rd liners and a prospect that now has question marks????

Imo fair value is our first this year, one of schenn/Hickey/Loki/Voinov, and a roster player of Stoll/JW/Richie(and a 2nd if for Richie)
I just don't see any team offering that. Maybe Edmonton or Columbus.

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06-07-2010, 10:21 PM
  #312
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It then becomes a question of Spezza or Kovalchuk. Hard decision, that.

Stoll, Moller, 1st for Spezza and Cheechoo. Might need to tweak it, but I like that as a starting point.

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06-07-2010, 10:29 PM
  #313
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Forget trading for Spezza. I'm not sure I'd even offer him a contract if he were a free agent.

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06-07-2010, 10:34 PM
  #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slippery Moses View Post
It then becomes a question of Spezza or Kovalchuk. Hard decision, that.

Stoll, Moller, 1st for Spezza and Cheechoo. Might need to tweak it, but I like that as a starting point.
Not necessarily. Moving Stoll and Williams is pretty close to Spezza salary wise. Technically Kovalchuk would still be a possibility.

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06-07-2010, 10:38 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Not necessarily. Moving Stoll and Williams is pretty close to Spezza salary wise. Technically Kovalchuk would still be a possibility.
Is that counting Doughty's huge raise, plus the raises Johnson and Simmer will also be getting soon?

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06-07-2010, 10:41 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
Each situation isn't close to comparable.
What do you mean each situation....? I'm not sure how Spezza and Kopi aren't comparable....age is similar, salary is similar, and production is similar.....with edge to each in separate categories.

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06-07-2010, 10:42 PM
  #317
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Is that counting Doughty's huge raise, plus the raises Johnson and Simmer will also be getting soon?
No. Because I don't want to make assumptions as to what those guys are going to make.

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06-07-2010, 11:10 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
What do you mean each situation....? I'm not sure how Spezza and Kopi aren't comparable....age is similar, salary is similar, and production is similar.....with edge to each in separate categories.
4 years is a pretty big difference in age IMO given where Kopi is in his development but that wasn't really what I was referring to.

I was referring to the their respective teams and the proposals we're seeing more so than each respective player, although I didn't really make that clear in my wording. We'd be trading from a position of power so-to speak whereas by most accounts Spezza wants out of Ottawa (and it may be mutual) and has a NTC.

When is the last time a top end player fetched two top 10 picks/prospects, a top 9 player, and a #1 pick?

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06-07-2010, 11:12 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
No. Because I don't want to make assumptions as to what those guys are going to make.
Gotcha but Dean would/should be making those assumptions.

Not that it really matters. I don't think he's interested in Spezza, let alone both Spezza and Kovy. Dean doesn't strike me as a guy that's looking to add a $7 million center that is soft and doesn't play defense.

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06-07-2010, 11:17 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
Gotcha but Dean would/should be making those assumptions.

Not that it really matters. I don't think he's interested in Spezza, let alone both Spezza and Kovy. Dean doesn't strike me as a guy that's looking to add a $7 million center that is soft and doesn't play defense.
Soft yes, doesn't play defense meh. I do think if he can do it, Kopitar, Kovy, Spezza, Doughty and Smyth on the PP is genius.

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06-07-2010, 11:25 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Soft yes, doesn't play defense meh. I do think if he can do it, Kopitar, Kovy, Spezza, Doughty and Smyth on the PP is genius.
That would be an amazing unit to trot out there, I agree.

I just don't see Dean giving up what Ottawa will want for Spezza to make that happen.

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06-07-2010, 11:33 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
4 years is a pretty big difference in age IMO given where Kopi is in his development but that wasn't really what I was referring to.

I was referring to the their respective teams and the proposals we're seeing more so than each respective player, although I didn't really make that clear in my wording. We'd be trading from a position of power so-to speak whereas by most accounts Spezza wants out of Ottawa (and it may be mutual) and has a NTC.

When is the last time a top end player fetched two top 10 picks/prospects, a top 9 player, and a #1 pick?
Not sure if you are referring to my post or others but I said 1 prospect, 1 pick, 1 top 9 more likely top 6. I think the DH trade from Ott last year is close, 2 top6's and a 2nd is pretty close imo, also the Ollie deal (to Calgary), hell even the the Kovi rental and Hossa rental(though different scenario's)

Also on the "2 top 10 picks" imo once a pick is made where is was made means little, that is to say you can value a Hickey/Schenn as top5 picks forever you have to judge them on currently value. What that is right now is up for debate that is just my opinion.

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06-07-2010, 11:42 PM
  #323
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Not sure if you are referring to my post or others but I said 1 prospect, 1 pick, 1 top 9 more likely top 6. I think the DH trade from Ott last year is close, 2 top6's and a 2nd is pretty close imo, also the Ollie deal (to Calgary), hell even the the Kovi rental and Hossa rental(though different scenario's)

Also on the "2 top 10 picks" imo once a pick is made where is was made means little, that is to say you can value a Hickey/Schenn as top5 picks forever you have to judge them on currently value. What that is right now is up for debate that is just my opinion.
I was referring to the earlier proposal that got the new debate going, not yours necessarily. Your scenario is a lot more likely although I don't think Schenn would be available.

Ottawa didn't get two Top 6 players though. It's a huge reach to call Cheechoo a Top 6 guy anymore. But I agree that is a comparable trade, although I think Spezza is worth more than Heatley.

Agreed but Schenn still easily has the value he did when he was drafted. If in 3 years he's still toiling in the AHL, then yes, his value isn't what it is now but not even close to reaching that level yet. Hickey isn't worth a #4 pick again but he's still got a lot of value.

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06-07-2010, 11:59 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Spezza for Schenn, JW/Stoll, Voynov/Hickey and 1st. Trade for Spezza should entice Kovy to sign with us even more I would think.

As much as I want Schenn to be a king, the timing just isn't right. Schenn won't be in his prime for another several years and it's my impression that we're trying to win the cup now!!!
What DL is doing in LA the past few years completely negates your wet dream. Furthermore, Spezza ain't THAT dreamy.

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06-08-2010, 12:15 AM
  #325
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There's a guy on the Sens board who seems to have credibility in regards to breaking deals before they've happened before. He just said Spezza is a goner...
He made a thread on the Sens board where he said he made the whole thing up.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...4#post26185424

Not that we may or may not make a move for him, but I thought I should note that.

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