I think Schneider has yet to prove he is an NHL ready goalkeeper.
Yay captain obvious. Only one way to prove your ready for the NHL but you can't do it without FIRST getting the opportunity. Or perhaps you feel he should prove he's ready BEFORE he gets the opportunity to show it.
I've seen this repeated over and over from you. I'll present this apples and oranges argument. And I mean this all with much respect.
Were you a proven lawyer while you were honing your craft in law school? No, of course not, but you probably excelled compared to your peers and there was a high probability that you would become a successful lawyer.
What about in your first 10 real cases? Are you a proven lawyer after 10 cases? Can we compare your first 10 cases to Schneider's first 10 games in the NHL? Are probabilities high that, with experience, someone with the pedigree of Schneider will succeed at an NHL level? Of course they are. Saying they're not would be arguing for the sake of arguing - which you're good at because you are now (or were formerly) an excellent lawyer.
People are saying Schneider will be Luongo's back-up based on educated probabilities and past events. I see nothing wrong with that, yet you seem to want to point out that Schneider has yet to prove he is capable of being an NHL goalie. Well, no kidding man. Nobody in the history of civilization has proven anything whatsoever until they've been put in a situation to do so, and Cory Schneider has earned that opportunity, and then some.
My first ten cases were all wins - so yes I suppose I was successful. And it continued. I did lose a couple of cases subsequently. I think my first loss was in the mid-30's.
Thus far Schneider has not shown to me in his ten games that he is not another Jason LaBarbera.
Jason LaBarbera was of similar age when he put up better AHL numbers than Schneider over several seasons and in fact was the AHL MVP on top being the top goaltender. He is at best a journeyman back-up when he is on his game.
Thus far Schneider has not proved to be an NHL goalie as a back-up or starter. Last year he was beaten out by Raycroft.
This year he may or may not have much competition depending upon who Gillis signs.
Yay captain obvious. Only one way to prove your ready for the NHL but you can't do it without FIRST getting the opportunity. Or perhaps you feel he should prove he's ready BEFORE he gets the opportunity to show it.
His first ten NHL games do not fill me with a great deal of hope and he went backwards last season in the AHL.
They actually have five (Varlamov, Rask, Bernier, Markstrom, Gustavsson).
Three of them should not be considered prospects as they played full-time in the NHL last season - in fact, Rask and Gustavsson have not played outside the NHL since the 2008-09 season while Varlamov saw just three games in the AHL this year.
1. If a prospect is a skater (forward, defenseman) and has played in 65 NHL games or more before the completion of the season of his 24th birthday; or, if a goaltender has played in 45 NHL games before the completion of the season of his 24th birthday, that player will be considered graduated to the NHL. Conversely, if a player completes the season of his 24th birthday without passing those milestones, then that player will no longer be considered a prospect by Hockey’s Future, regardless of the player’s status with his NHL club.
...
There's more but basically they just add conditions that allow certain prospects (NCAA players, Europeans etc) more time to "graduate" before being considered "busts."
Anyway, Rask has played his 45 games and it is plainly obvious that Gustavsson and Varlamov will reach this milestone early next year.
So I would argue that Schneider is at present the third best goaltending prospect out there (and due to the prospect du jour nature of these rankings will likely drop once Campbell et al are drafted this year).
Anyway, what about Schneider's NHL starts this year has you troubled about his ability to play in this league?
Last edited by R0bert0 Lu0ng0: 06-08-2010 at 03:53 PM.
Being a top 50 ranked prospect isn't good enough for you? He has to be the top ranked goalie as well?
Second, you always appeal to the hockey futures prospect rankings to support your position. If the Canucks are representative of the site as a whole, their prospect rankings leave a ton to be desired.
Being a top 50 ranked prospect isn't good enough for you? He has to be the top ranked goalie as well?
Second, you always appeal to the hockey futures prospect rankings to support your position. If the Canucks are representative of the site as a whole, their prospect rankings leave a ton to be desired.
Being ranked there as goalie indicates to me he is not the lock that many think him to be.
Overall the Canucks currently rank #8 as an organization. A definite upgrade on the bottom third rankings with Burke and Nonis's mid third rankings.
They actually have five (Varlamov, Rask, Bernier, Markstrom, Gustavsson).
Three of them should not be considered prospects as they played full-time in the NHL last season - in fact, Rask and Gustavsson have not played outside the NHL since the 2008-09 season while Varlamov saw just three games in the AHL this year.
There's more but basically they just add conditions that allow certain prospects (NCAA players, Europeans etc) more time to "graduate" before being considered "busts."
Anyway, Rask has played his 45 games and it is plainly obvious that Gustavsson and Varlamov will reach this milestone early next year.
So I would argue that Schneider is at present the third best goaltending prospect out there (and due to the prospect du jour nature of these rankings will likely drop once Campbell et al are drafted this year).
Anyway, what about Schneider's NHL starts this year has you troubled about his ability to play in this league?
I think HF is correct. Schneider slots in as the 6th ranked prospect and that is without considering Antii Niemi.
We may get a better indication of what Gillis may really think after July 1 and which goaltender(s) he may sign.
I think HF is correct. Schneider slots in as the 6th ranked prospect and that is without considering Antii Niemi.
63 NHL GP.
Schneider looks pretty bad when you compare him with former prospects - not so much when you don't. The list you posted is already out of date and will be much further as soon as Toronto and Washington are playing again.
Schneider on the other hand will not play 45 games in this league any time soon and should be compared to other players at similar developmental stages.. granted that Schneider is one of the older "prospects" out there.
Quote:
We may get a better indication of what Gillis may really think after July 1 and which goaltender(s) he may sign.
Oh I don't disagree... if Schneider fails to beat out another league minimum goaltender for a spot then that is his problem and he can compete with Eddie Lack for starts in Winnipeg while he hones his game further.
Schneider has yet to prove he's an NHL goalie. This is a fact as he's only played ten NHL games. He could be the greatest goaltender for the entirety of history but until he proves it in the NHL, he's not a NHL goalie. I personally think Schneider is going to turn out something like Johan Hedberg, a journey man 1A.
