HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Official Rumor Thread--Kings Rumor Mill IV

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-08-2010, 05:48 PM
  #1
Telos
Moderator
In Dean We Trust
 
Telos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Reno, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 26,703
vCash: 424
Send a message via ICQ to Telos Send a message via AIM to Telos Send a message via MSN to Telos Send a message via Yahoo to Telos
Official Rumor Thread--Kings Rumor Mill IV

Continue here.

__________________

“This is for you Kings fans wherever you may be. All the frustration and disappointment of the past is gone. The 45 year drought is over. The Los Angeles Kings are indeed the Kings of the National Hockey League. They are the 2012 Stanley Cup Champions!” - Bob Miller
Telos is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 06:05 PM
  #2
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 16,007
vCash: 500
DIEHARD's quote from previous thread:

Since we are arguably 1 year behind the Blackhawks, and as players of the caliber of Kovy and Marlene don't come around everyday, isnt NOW the right time?

And if not NOW, WHEN?

To use more one-liners: Sooner or later you got to pay the piper.
And as the Fram Oil commericial guy says: you can pay (me) now or pay (me) later.

IMHO, the RIGHT TIME IS JULY 1, 2010. Pay for Kovy now, and make it work!

I'm tired of the old refrains about why it hasn't happened or it cant happen. Chicago paid big for players that got them over the hump. Philly didnt really go the route of builf through the draft, they bought a team, and look where it got them.

ITS TIME FOR ACTION NOT A SINGLE MORE EXCUSE


My response:

The Kings are arguably at least 2 years behind the Blackhawks.

I am not against adding a piece via the UFA market now if the cost is reasonable. However, until we know more about guys like Schenn, Loktionov, Hickey, and Bernier, we don't even know what the missing piece might be.


Last edited by KINGS17: 06-08-2010 at 06:27 PM.
KINGS17 is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 06:16 PM
  #3
Flour Child
Unleavened User
 
Flour Child's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Drury Lane
Posts: 22,611
vCash: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
]

My response:

The Kings are arguably at least 2 years behind the Blackhawks.

I am not against adding a piece via the UFA market now if the cost is reasonable. However, until we know more about guys like Schenn, Loktionov, Hickey, and Bernier, we don't even know what the missing might be.
This x 7

When we make The conference finals or almost make it to the 3rd round...THEN it's time to add Hossa or the piece to push us over the top.

Flour Child is online now  
Old
06-08-2010, 06:16 PM
  #4
Chruceg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 870
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeMeck
I don't think you can just lump the Kings into this boat. The most glaring weakness wasn't defense or goaltending or special teams.

Our glaring weakness is scoring goals, and even moreso 5 on 5. A 30/40/50 goal scorer addresses this weakness.

So what, those other teams had 30 goal scorers and had crap goaltending or defense. It is really all that means. Those other teams will be addressing their D and goaltending. Lombardi built from the back out.

We already are strong defensively, especially among our forwards. We absolutely need a dangerous guy who will keep opposing dmen honest.

Why do we seem to get hemmed up in our own end more than most teams??? It is because we don't have the forward or forwards to make the opposition think twice about pinching dmen or sending 3 forecheckers. We need the impact player more for this reason than we need 50 goals. The name Kovalchuk will garner immediate respect in way teams prepare for us.
I completely agree that the biggest are of weakness on the Kings is their lack of five on five scoring; however, I disagree that it is the only area of need. What people don't realize is how good the Kings were overall in the five on five goals differential stat. The Kings were tenth in the league. I just don't think it is as much of a glaring weakness that everybody makes it out to be. And I would maintain that by adding a single premier player for seven million or higher the Kings would be unable to address other vital areas of need on the team. (ie fifth & sixth defenseman, third line LW, the entire fourth line, etc.)

I completely disagree though that the reason why the Kings get hemmed up in their own zone has anything to do with having an elite goal scoring winger. The defensemen and the center are by far the most important part of that equation. If you offer some stats I might believe you but right now the supposition that a guy who is on the ice for roughly a third of the game can be the difference in quality breakouts out of the defensive zone. It just doesn't pass the smell test. Especially in light of the fact that the Kings are known around the league as a team that breaks it out of their own zone well.

Chruceg is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 06:35 PM
  #5
DeeMeck
Registered User
 
DeeMeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chruceg View Post
I completely agree that the biggest are of weakness on the Kings is their lack of five on five scoring; however, I disagree that it is the only area of need. What people don't realize is how good the Kings were overall in the five on five goals differential stat. The Kings were tenth in the league. I just don't think it is as much of a glaring weakness that everybody makes it out to be. And I would maintain that by adding a single premier player for seven million or higher the Kings would be unable to address other vital areas of need on the team. (ie fifth & sixth defenseman, third line LW, the entire fourth line, etc.)

I completely disagree though that the reason why the Kings get hemmed up in their own zone has anything to do with having an elite goal scoring winger. The defensemen and the center are by far the most important part of that equation. If you offer some stats I might believe you but right now the supposition that a guy who is on the ice for roughly a third of the game can be the difference in quality breakouts out of the defensive zone. It just doesn't pass the smell test. Especially in light of the fact that the Kings are known around the league as a team that breaks it out of their own zone well.
We were 10th in the league in differential because our 5 on 5 D was that good. The differential was decent...but the scoring of goals was down. That is where the sniper comes in, because we will pretty much be returning the same D corps with probably a new face in the mix.

Centers and D are important in the breakout, but having that game-breaking threat helps keep the dmen and forecheck honest. Kovy has the skill and wheels to burn you if you make a bad pinch. Frolov was good at this too, he just can't execute a breakaway

Good discussion.

DeeMeck is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 06:44 PM
  #6
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,849
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Differential doesn't mean much, it just shows that the Kings had a solid defense, a bad PK and a really good PP.

The Kings were 9th in total offense and 19th in 5-on-5 scoring.

The Kings were 9th in total defense and 4th in 5-on-5 defense.

That tells me that the Kings need a game breaker to improve their ES scoring.

Sydor25 is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 06:47 PM
  #7
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 16,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Differential doesn't mean much, it just shows that the Kings had a solid defense, a bad PK and a really good PP.

The Kings were 9th in total offense and 19th in 5-on-5 scoring.

The Kings were 9th in total defense and 4th in 5-on-5 defense.

That tells me that the Kings need a game breaker to improve their ES scoring.
See it tells me something completely different, like the Kings had some trouble making a good first pass out of their own zone and generating any speed through the neutral zone. Good first passes that are made stick-to-stick to the attacking forwards are what generate speed in the neutral zone.

KINGS17 is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 06:55 PM
  #8
Duc620
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 931
vCash: 500
Couple of things - that 5 on 5 stat was skewed during the early part of the season before the Kopitar line was broken up due to injuries.

I agree that we need at least one veteran D especially to improve break outs. That being said, good break outs have to have a real threat (scoring) or the opponents D will stop respecting your break outs. A serious threat can help prevent that - even when they don't score they still create chaos.

I disagree that a Kovalchuk hiring just automatically ruins all plans and development. It just changes it - to the better, for me.

Duc620 is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 06:55 PM
  #9
tantrum4*
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Kelowna, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,336
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
See it tells me something completely different, like the Kings had some trouble making a good first pass out of their own zone and generating any speed through the neutral zone. Good first passes that are made stick-to-stick to the attacking forwards are what generate speed in the neutral zone.
None of that matters unless you have a guy that can finish the play at the other end. We did most of our scoring when the other team was down a man. That will not get you through very many playoff rounds if you have to always wait for a power play. Just add Kovy Dean. I'm tired of not having a real superstar on offence since Gretzky...

tantrum4* is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 06:56 PM
  #10
DeeMeck
Registered User
 
DeeMeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
See it tells me something completely different, like the Kings had some trouble making a good first pass out of their own zone and generating any speed through the neutral zone. Good first passes that are made stick-to-stick to the attacking forwards are what generate speed in the neutral zone.
The only time we get out of the zone is when we make the good first pass.

We don't have the gamebreaking threat to keep the opposition a little honest. We pretty much get picnhed and forechecked without abandon.

DeeMeck is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 06:58 PM
  #11
Duc620
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 931
vCash: 500
And Gretzky had Kurri on wing. Kopi and Kovy deserve each other.

Duc620 is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 07:13 PM
  #12
Chruceg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 870
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
We were 10th in the league in differential because our 5 on 5 D was that good. The differential was decent...but the scoring of goals was down. That is where the sniper comes in, because we will pretty much be returning the same D corps with probably a new face in the mix.

Centers and D are important in the breakout, but having that game-breaking threat helps keep the dmen and forecheck honest. Kovy has the skill and wheels to burn you if you make a bad pinch. Frolov was good at this too, he just can't execute a breakaway

Good discussion.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the scoring of goals was down." Two years ago the Kings were dead last in five on five scoring while last year the Kings were 18th. So they definitely improved. Now what's most important is that the 7th is separated from 22nd by only fifteen total goals. So when you look at LW production on the Kings (depending on what you consider Smyth as) you can see a glaring hole at either first and third LW or second and third LW. Replace Frolov's 19 goals and all you have to do is better Parse's 11 goals. A twenty five goal scorer betters that by fourteen. More than enough to put the Kings in the top ten. In addition because the Kings aren't breaking the bank with a premier guy there is enough money to pay for this years bridge defenseman while saving money for Doughty, Johnson, Simmonds et al.

Chruceg is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 07:14 PM
  #13
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,849
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
See it tells me something completely different, like the Kings had some trouble making a good first pass out of their own zone and generating any speed through the neutral zone. Good first passes that are made stick-to-stick to the attacking forwards are what generate speed in the neutral zone.
The Kings had one of the best break out systems in the NHL, Vancouver broke it up because they didn't fear anyone on the Kings and pinched their defensemen constantly.

Kovalchuk will add a lot more 5-on-5 offense than another puck moving defensman UFA. Why not just use Hickey, Voynov or Muzzin when they are ready? Why lock yourself into another top 4 defenseman when you have plenty coming through the ranks. Where are the top line forwards going to come from in a couple of years? Schenn is the only one that is projected to be a possible top 3 forward, the Kings only have 1 top 3 forward (Kopitar). Loktionov and Moller are still wildcards, they may become top 6 forwards.

A player of Kovalchuk's ability may never be available at 27 again. If the Kings still need 3 years to develop into a cup contender, he will still be only 30 years old. Marleau is already 30 years old.

Sydor25 is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 07:14 PM
  #14
DIEHARD the King fan
Registered User
 
DIEHARD the King fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: blueline to slot
Country: United States
Posts: 6,244
vCash: 500
DL has already admitted that they lack depth up front in the system. He's acknowledged that they need to go UFA to address scoring needs. He supposedly made offers for Hossa and turned down a chance to match the Rangers on Gaborik. If he keeps passing up the opportunities to IMPROVE while losing Frolov, O'Sullivan and Cammy in the last three years, please tell me where our goals are going to come from. Williams in 40-45 games? Doubtful. Parse, 15-20 best. We need a true proven sniper for Kopitars line and that isnt going to come from dumpster diving.

Too many times have we heard that we need to add pieces and too many times we have added the wrong piece or just not enough. The time to help this team is now, not in 2-3 years, when it will be the time to add that final piece. With the statements DL has already made, I think he's talked himself into a corner, but if he fails, many of you have had so much Kool-aid, you'll accept whatever excuse is offered as being "the plan all along."

here's your UFA list of forwards:

Patrick Marleau,
Tomas Plekanec
Ilya Kovalchuk
Pavol Demitra
Adam Burish
Ray Whitney
Matt Cullen
Alexander Frolov
Bill Guerin
John Madden
Teemu Selanne
Alexei Ponikarovsky
Matthew Lombardi
Paul Kariya
Olli Jokinen
Saku Koivu
Lee Stempniak
Colby Armstrong
Craig Conroy
Andy Sutton
(I may have missed a few)

Now, anyone other than Kovy and Marleau (and yes, even Whitney) is a step down and not really the sniper we need. So when the man himself says we need to address our weakness up front at the forward position through UFA, what is he saying? And it means little to say we'll use the UFA market, if you're not going to bring enough money to go shopping. Addressing a position through UFA means spending money, and more often than not, alot of it. We have the space and two supposedly very bright management people who can, or at least should be able to, figure out how to make paying Kovy his boatload of cash work.

Since I heard DL say today on the Fan590 interview that he wouldn't mind having the problem Chicago has with cap space, as long as he has a good team, I think all you cap/cost worry worts dont see that there are times in any business (hockey included) when you have to go "All In" if you want to make it big. Playing conservative all the time may get you a steady return, but if you want rings, you've got to jump in the deep end, and its now time to start adding those pieces to make this team a powerhouse, not just an also-ran.

And if you still want to build through the draft, maybe you'd suggest tanking for a few more years? Because right now we're in the black hole territory, so we better move up quick or go back to tanking. I'd rather jump-start the ramping up process with the best player that's likely to be available as a UFA for a considerable amount of time.

DIEHARD the King fan is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 07:20 PM
  #15
Flour Child
Unleavened User
 
Flour Child's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Drury Lane
Posts: 22,611
vCash: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
worts
This was literally the first word I saw in your post and I got all excited thinking that you started homebrewing.


Flour Child is online now  
Old
06-08-2010, 07:23 PM
  #16
Ollie Weeks
Registered User
 
Ollie Weeks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sioux Lookout, NWO
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,335
vCash: 500
Organizing a pre-emptive strike on the Lombardistas, I see.

Ollie Weeks is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 07:26 PM
  #17
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,849
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slippery Moses View Post
Organizing a pre-emptive strike on the Lombardistas, I see.
Just gettting ready for our normal July 1st meltdown as Kings fans...

Sydor25 is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 07:53 PM
  #18
nki
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,281
vCash: 500
When you have enough quality chances but can't finish, you go after a scoring winger. When you don't have enough quality chances, you look at your centers or defensemen...or coach.

What I'd like to see (in order): an all around top 4 defenseman, a second line center, a scoring winger. Not saying you need to get them in that order, but I'd be happy if we sign a Martin/Hamhuis and Whitney (for a year or two) or go the trade route, either way I won't be overly sad if Kovalchuk is not a King.

nki is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 08:03 PM
  #19
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 16,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nki View Post
When you have enough quality chances but can't finish, you go after a scoring winger. When you don't have enough quality chances, you look at your centers or defensemen...or coach.

What I'd like to see (in order): an all around top 4 defenseman, a second line center, a scoring winger. Not saying you need to get them in that order, but I'd be happy if we sign a Martin/Hamhuis and Whitney (for a year or two) or go the trade route, either way I won't be overly sad if Kovalchuk is not a King.
Yeah, I agree. I didn't see all the great quality chances that the Kings just couldn't finish. A game breaker doesn't help you get out of your own zone if you can't put a pass on his tape, and the only guy we have that consistently does that now is Doughty. Johnson is still a work in progress in that area and looks promising.

What I saw mostly this season was a defense that either always made the safe play off the glass or boards (think Scuderi, Greene, and OD some of the time), or handled the puck in their own zone like it was a hand grenade on the end of their stick (think Jones, OD some of the time, and Drewiske a lot of the time).

KINGS17 is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 08:07 PM
  #20
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 16,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
DL has already admitted that they lack depth up front in the system. He's acknowledged that they need to go UFA to address scoring needs. He supposedly made offers for Hossa and turned down a chance to match the Rangers on Gaborik. If he keeps passing up the opportunities to IMPROVE while losing Frolov, O'Sullivan and Cammy in the last three years, please tell me where our goals are going to come from. Williams in 40-45 games? Doubtful. Parse, 15-20 best. We need a true proven sniper for Kopitars line and that isnt going to come from dumpster diving.

Too many times have we heard that we need to add pieces and too many times we have added the wrong piece or just not enough. The time to help this team is now, not in 2-3 years, when it will be the time to add that final piece. With the statements DL has already made, I think he's talked himself into a corner, but if he fails, many of you have had so much Kool-aid, you'll accept whatever excuse is offered as being "the plan all along."

here's your UFA list of forwards:

Patrick Marleau,
Tomas Plekanec
Ilya Kovalchuk
Pavol Demitra
Adam Burish
Ray Whitney
Matt Cullen
Alexander Frolov
Bill Guerin
John Madden
Teemu Selanne
Alexei Ponikarovsky
Matthew Lombardi
Paul Kariya
Olli Jokinen
Saku Koivu
Lee Stempniak
Colby Armstrong
Craig Conroy
Andy Sutton
(I may have missed a few)

Now, anyone other than Kovy and Marleau (and yes, even Whitney) is a step down and not really the sniper we need. So when the man himself says we need to address our weakness up front at the forward position through UFA, what is he saying? And it means little to say we'll use the UFA market, if you're not going to bring enough money to go shopping. Addressing a position through UFA means spending money, and more often than not, alot of it. We have the space and two supposedly very bright management people who can, or at least should be able to, figure out how to make paying Kovy his boatload of cash work.

Since I heard DL say today on the Fan590 interview that he wouldn't mind having the problem Chicago has with cap space, as long as he has a good team, I think all you cap/cost worry worts dont see that there are times in any business (hockey included) when you have to go "All In" if you want to make it big. Playing conservative all the time may get you a steady return, but if you want rings, you've got to jump in the deep end, and its now time to start adding those pieces to make this team a powerhouse, not just an also-ran.

And if you still want to build through the draft, maybe you'd suggest tanking for a few more years? Because right now we're in the black hole territory, so we better move up quick or go back to tanking. I'd rather jump-start the ramping up process with the best player that's likely to be available as a UFA for a considerable amount of time.
Forget Kovy and his boatload of cash. We will see Marleau get a Hossa-like deal before that ever happens IMHO, and I would be fine with that. Look at it this way, you would finally have a use for that O'Sullivan jersey. Just change the name plate.

Sorry, but losing Cammalleri, O'Sullivan, and Frolov was not the end of the world. All three are immensely easy to replace.

KINGS17 is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 08:13 PM
  #21
Kurrilino
Go Stoll Go
 
Kurrilino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,533
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Kurrilino
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
See it tells me something completely different, like the Kings had some trouble making a good first pass out of their own zone and generating any speed through the neutral zone. Good first passes that are made stick-to-stick to the attacking forwards are what generate speed in the neutral zone.
This is based on the system the Kings play.
You can't get much better defenders then Johnson and Doughty and we still have the wrong defender ??????????????

This is a pure coaching issue.

Like i said.......... playing defense is good but sacrifice the complete offense
is another thing.

I would love the Kings mixed with the Predators system.
Ultra agressive forecheck and lightning fast passes and moves
into the offensive zone.

Kurrilino is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 08:20 PM
  #22
Telos
Moderator
In Dean We Trust
 
Telos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Reno, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 26,703
vCash: 424
Send a message via ICQ to Telos Send a message via AIM to Telos Send a message via MSN to Telos Send a message via Yahoo to Telos
We need to draft Kabanov and sign Kovalchuk, then put them on Kopitar's line and call them the KKK line

Telos is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 08:37 PM
  #23
DIEHARD the King fan
Registered User
 
DIEHARD the King fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: blueline to slot
Country: United States
Posts: 6,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slippery Moses View Post
Organizing a pre-emptive strike on the Lombardistas, I see.
Guilty as charged. I may need a good lawyer to get a plea bargain

DIEHARD the King fan is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 08:38 PM
  #24
Youngblood93
Registered User
 
Youngblood93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 1,962
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
We need to draft Kabanov and sign Kovalchuk, then put them on Kopitar's line and call them the KKK line
I saw this coming a mile away. This crossed my mine when all the Kovy to LA talk started.

I also was hoping Team USA didn't put Kessel with Kane and Kesler.

Youngblood93 is offline  
Old
06-08-2010, 08:46 PM
  #25
The Black1963
Grit & Character
 
The Black1963's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orange County CA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Guilty as charged. I may need a good lawyer to get a plea bargain
You won't find one on this board.

The Black1963 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:44 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.