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06-08-2010, 11:42 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by SteelTownFever View Post
Why do you think that?
Lots of reasons. Crosby is our most dangerous and shifty player in tight and on the boards. He scores a bundle of goals from within 10 feet on the PP. Putting him on a point takes away many of the things he is really great at there with no one who can do the same around on the team.
On the other hand he doesn't have the biggest gun despite his improved shot, and while a great passer, he just isn't that patient which means that he tries to force quite a lot passes. Its a position I don't think he has ever played, and I don't quite see how it is meaningful to try and change him from being awesome at something to being 'adequate to potentially great' at something else? We have Gogo to be that player if that's what we're going for, or Malkin to be 'great but flawed'.

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06-09-2010, 12:36 AM
  #102
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It all would depend on what Whitney would want to be paid, which of course speaks to how much he would want to be a Pens on Crosby or Malkin's wing. Basically, the Pens spent $14 - $15 million on the wing position, or about a third of the salary cap. With the cap going up maybe $3 million that leaves $15 - $16 million on the position. If Whitney will accept a reasonable salary he would no doubt be a Pen, if not then another will be. Pretty simple and the ball is in his court almost entirely as Shero has shown before in similar situations.
3 million cap raise? i thought it was 2 million rumored?

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06-09-2010, 05:31 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
3 million cap raise? i thought it was 2 million rumored?
i heard it could be as high as 2.5... so 59.3, it was in an article right after the bettman press conference, i can't remember the article to link it though.

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06-09-2010, 06:33 AM
  #104
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Can Whitney play the Point on the PP? If so I'd go with him and Gogo at the point's with Crosby and Malkin rotating around the half board and high circle with Kunitz doing the hard working and trying to screen the goalie.

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06-09-2010, 07:30 AM
  #105
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Can Whitney play the Point on the PP? If so I'd go with him and Gogo at the point's with Crosby and Malkin rotating around the half board and high circle with Kunitz doing the hard working and trying to screen the goalie.
Yeah, he has played the left point a good bit and likes to slide down to the left dot for one timers.

I can think of a team where that would be helpful.

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06-09-2010, 08:35 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Lots of reasons. Crosby is our most dangerous and shifty player in tight and on the boards. He scores a bundle of goals from within 10 feet on the PP. Putting him on a point takes away many of the things he is really great at there with no one who can do the same around on the team.
On the other hand he doesn't have the biggest gun despite his improved shot, and while a great passer, he just isn't that patient which means that he tries to force quite a lot passes. Its a position I don't think he has ever played, and I don't quite see how it is meaningful to try and change him from being awesome at something to being 'adequate to potentially great' at something else? We have Gogo to be that player if that's what we're going for, or Malkin to be 'great but flawed'.
Putting Sid on the point gives him the puck more. As crazy as this sounds, I don't believe Sid has the puck nearly enough over the course of a season. And obviously, the Habs denied him the puck very well. I want my best player to have the puck as much as humanly possible.

SO, either Sid is the new QB or Geno. Either way. Feed the beasts.

As JTG pointed out, whether they are literally on the point or the half-wall, just make one of them the guy on the power play. Call it the point forward, whatever. Just have them more involved.

Heck, use them both interchangeably, where every power play they alternate roles. These two guys are so special, I just don't think we're maxing out what they're capable of.

And when it comes right down to it, my whole Kovalchuk obsession is more about what I just said above than about any kind of man-crush for ol' 17. I like Kovy, but what I like even more is maximizing what we already have in Sid and Geno. THAT is Priority 1 for me right now.

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06-09-2010, 09:24 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by odds View Post
They don't, just like having both centers along the RW boards, it's counter productive.

Malkin in the middle(pun intended) will create, and he is big enough to take the punishment to be in that area. He also has better hands than what they have used there, and it's not like he can't still cycle out to the boards from there either.
Geno couldn't handle the middle of the ice on the PP, I don't think. He isn't strong enough, and he doesn't have the disposition to handle it. Nor would I want him taking that kind of pounding.

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I think all PP's run through the points to some extent. If it isn't Gonchar, then there'll obviously be less emphasis on the right point bringing it up ice and distributing when set up, but we'd still be catering to where the biggest weapons are, just like any other team does.
That will remain setting up Malkin for a one timer, IMO. If Whitney is there for instance and Gogo is in Gonchar's position, some more of that will shift to the other side of the ice whether Whitney is on the half wall or left point, but anyway, the poin men are still essential in moving the puck around, keeping it in and getting shots on net.

I don't see why we cannot have more movement on our PP without that having anything to do with the need to have guys who know the point position intimately. Its not like the main guys on Chicago/Philly have particularly different roles in that respect than our guys have had. They have many more skill players at wing who can make plays, but that doesn't mean their point men play different functions than ours on the PP.
Almost every PP does have some variation of getting run from the point, but my point is, we don't need someone back there who touches the puck every single time. What happens when a shot is taken? We recover (hopefully), and it's funneled back to Sarge. That doesn't have to happen. That's what I'm saying. Rather than funneling it to one guy, spread it around, create movement, and let the PK forget about one of our guys.

Without Sarge, it makes everyone think a bit more because it's not just an automatic back to the point, but it should help with our powerplay in the fact that the PK never know who it's going to.

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06-09-2010, 09:32 AM
  #108
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Yeah, he has played the left point a good bit and likes to slide down to the left dot for one timers.

I can think of a team where that would be helpful.
That's the huge benefit of Whitney is we could actually have someone who can handle the puck on the Left hand side of the ice with our current PP it's basically Sid,Geno and Gonch who handle the puck all at one side of the ice making it easy to defend.

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06-09-2010, 09:49 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
That's the huge benefit of Whitney is we could actually have someone who can handle the puck on the Left hand side of the ice with our current PP it's basically Sid,Geno and Gonch who handle the puck all at one side of the ice making it easy to defend.
Pens PP with Whitney would be incredibly hard to defend...

Did people miss his performance at the Worlds?

The Wizard has a lot left in the tank.

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06-09-2010, 09:54 AM
  #110
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Reading about our pp just left a bad taste in my mouth. Can we please put together two legit units?

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06-09-2010, 09:54 AM
  #111
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Yeah, we saw any team with a decent PK attack the **** out of Gonchar and Malkin and leave Letang alone as he wasn't a threat. Getting the right guy on the left side would keep everyone honest and open everything up.

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06-09-2010, 09:58 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Wintersiziz77 View Post
Reading about our pp just left a bad taste in my mouth. Can we please put together two legit units?
That's going to be difficult unless we split Geno and Sid up. Maybe If we got a guy like Tanguay along with Whitney we could have Tanguay running the half wall on the 2nd unit which is the main problem as they use Staal in that role when he's much more suited to down low and in front of the net.


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06-09-2010, 10:04 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
That's going to be difficult unless we split Geno and Malkin up. Maybe If we got a guy like Tanguay along with Whitney we could have Tanguay running the half wall on the 2nd unit which is the main problem as they use Staal in that role when he's much more suited to down low and in front of the net.
Sounds painful, but it could work!

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06-09-2010, 10:11 AM
  #114
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Sounds painful, but it could work!

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06-09-2010, 10:24 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Without Sarge, it makes everyone think a bit more because it's not just an automatic back to the point, but it should help with our powerplay in the fact that the PK never know who it's going to.
We lack movement and alternatives on the PP something fierce but that is a coaching (and lack of skill) issue. We've played 75 games over the past two regular seasons without Gonchar... it's not like him being there changes how we do things or make other teams think more, we are just better at doing the same things with him/easier to stop without him.

My point wasn't even about Gonchar, the point is the same if it is Goligoski there or anyone else. And it is the same when you look at other elite teams. All the other elite teams have defenders on the points who do many of the same things Gonchar does. Not many have anyone as good as him (on the PP I mean), but instead they most often have someone better than Letang or Goligoski on the other point. Pronger/Timmonen/Carle/Richards manning the points on Philly for instance. Keith/Campbell/Seabrook for Chicago.

I even get arguments that Gonchar is ageing and so much of a potential risk defensively, that we shouldn't sign him (I don't agree, but I get the arguments), but seeing what our PP is with and without him, it is just too counter to logic to argue that we'll be better and less predictable without him.
Just like JagSid's argument that we take Crosby away from where he is most effective and ask him to do something he has never done before in order to put him in a position where he is the guy to simply move the puck around or use his less than fantastic slap-shot is simply bizarre to me.
If we want to have more movement, we need our most skilled player to be roaming around in traffic areas where he can beat players and actually has a license to make plays. Like he does now, and a player like Briere does for Philly for instance. You don't want him taking those kind of chances while on the point! Its one of the reasons Geno hasn't been very good there when he has been tried, and another reason is that it takes experience to play the position well. Goligoski is a better point than either of Sid or Geno, and I don't think the world of Gogo on the point, despite his obvious flair for it.

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06-09-2010, 10:30 AM
  #116
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But what I'm saying is that the bulk of over powerplay is determined on what Sarge is going to do, and when you take him out of that equation and put in a lesser piece, of course it's going to falter.

What I'm saying is that instead of making sure Sarge touches the puck every time, try to make sure every guy gets the same amount of touches. And if we have to set up, maybe set it up against the wall with Sid and Geno? I don't know. All I'm saying is that the powerplay doesn't have to be run from the blueline, and if Sarge isn't there, the show will go on. This team will adapt...I have faith.

And when you want to talk about some QB'ing the powerplay, one would think you'd want the best playmaker in the game doing that.

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06-09-2010, 12:15 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by WVP View Post
Yeah, he has played the left point a good bit and likes to slide down to the left dot for one timers.

I can think of a team where that would be helpful.
Being able to set things up from both the left and right side would add a huge dimension.

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06-09-2010, 12:58 PM
  #118
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The development of a potent powerplay in Pittsburgh will not come until you split Malkin and Crosby up. Both of them love the right boards. If you must get Whitney, use him on the left side pounding one-timers on goal. Find another right handed defender who can move the puck (my Kubina light is flashing) and another fringe right handed forward (Kennedy or FA).

It was easy to overplay the Malkin, Crosby, Gonchar side this year. Having little threat from the far side killed us and using one group also stopped us. Two fresh groups for about 50 seconds each would be more effective than a 1:30 shift.

PP1
-- Gonchar (or suitable replacement), Malkin (boards), Kunitz (in front), Letang (left point) and Whitney or right handed FA (lower left boards for one-timers)

PP2
-- Goligoski, Crosby (boards), Staal (in front), FA RH defender (left point) and Kennedy or right handed FA (lower left boards)

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06-09-2010, 01:02 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by BatonRougePen View Post
The development of a potent powerplay in Pittsburgh will not come until you split Malkin and Crosby up. Both of them love the right boards. If you must get Whitney, use him on the left side pounding one-timers on goal. Find another right handed defender who can move the puck (my Kubina light is flashing) and another fringe right handed forward (Kennedy or FA).

It was easy to overplay the Malkin, Crosby, Gonchar side this year. Having little threat from the far side killed us and using one group also stopped us. Two fresh groups for about 50 seconds each would be more effective than a 1:30 shift.

PP1
-- Gonchar (or suitable replacement), Malkin (boards), Kunitz (in front), Letang (left point) and Whitney or right handed FA (lower left boards for one-timers)

PP2
-- Goligoski, Crosby (boards), Staal (in front), FA RH defender (left point) and Kennedy or right handed FA (lower left boards)
They both love the right boards, but Sid likes to play much lower than Geno does. Geno would much rather play closer to the point where he can rip shots, whereas Sid likes being close to the net where he can tip, catch pucks off the boards, and work behind the net.

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06-09-2010, 01:13 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
They both love the right boards, but Sid likes to play much lower than Geno does. Geno would much rather play closer to the point where he can rip shots, whereas Sid likes being close to the net where he can tip, catch pucks off the boards, and work behind the net.
That's nice, but it didn't help. Teams could still overload that side.

Splitting them would also force teams to not send their top PK group out against just one group.

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06-09-2010, 01:20 PM
  #121
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That's nice, but it didn't help. Teams could still overload that side.

Splitting them would also force teams to not send their top PK group out against just one group.
Well they aren't going to be split up, so I guess we can quit discussing that.

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06-09-2010, 01:27 PM
  #122
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That's nice, but it didn't help. Teams could still overload that side.

Splitting them would also force teams to not send their top PK group out against just one group.
They mainly loaded the right side because they knew Letang would either fumble the pass or shoot the puck over the net. A serious threat over there changes everything, we basically used 50% of the zone this year.

I still have confidence in Letang for that role eventually, but man, the problem seemed to be his confidence in himself.

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06-09-2010, 01:27 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Pens PP with Whitney would be incredibly hard to defend...

Did people miss his performance at the Worlds?

The Wizard has a lot left in the tank.
The question is how much does he have left, specifically. I don't want to gamble on that third year, which his camp will undoubtedly ask for.

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06-09-2010, 01:33 PM
  #124
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From watching Whitney...I'd say he had 3 good years left in him. If I didn't know his age already, I would never guess in a million years that he's 38. His shot is still wicked, he hasn't lost a step. The only thing I worry about is what if we go through another 2 years like the 2 we just had? I can see a 38/39/40 year old body having a really, really rough time playing that much hockey.

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06-09-2010, 01:34 PM
  #125
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I still have confidence in Letang for that role eventually, but man, the problem seemed to be his confidence in himself.
Yeah... I have a lot of faith in Letang... but he took a visible step back this year. Going into the season I had absolutely no reservations about Gonchar potentially leaving, since I figured Letang's development would continue on the same track it had been. But man... ugly year. You're right, though... with both he and Goligoski... it's all confidence.

It totally boggled my mind that the coaching staff started to emphasize him practicing his point shot on the powerplay with something like two weeks left in the regular season when he had been biffing opportunities all... year... long.

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