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A potential trade proposal... [mod: Wolski/Kaberle]

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Old
05-24-2010, 10:12 PM
  #1
slapshots1515
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A potential trade proposal... [mod: Wolski/Kaberle]

Hey, just visiting over here. So I saw this proposed the other day, and I was curious to see what Phoenix fans thought of it. I know we're all tired of Kaberle threads, so I'm sorry to bring one over here if you don't like it. But this was actually one of the first ones I saw that made sense, and so I wanted to see how it would go over on here.

:

Wolski

:

Kaberle
TOR 2010 3rd

From watching you guys in our series against you, I was impressed with Yandle's play, but I particularly thought of him as more of a shooter, and thought it would be interesting to see him with a puck mover. Trust me, I'm not one of those that sees Kaberle as a be all end all by any stretch of the imagination, but I do see him as a good PPQB, and possibly the right piece for a team that's almost there to be moved into contender status. I know Wolski's a valuable part of your top 6 right now, but I thought maybe with Turris coming up, and possibly signing a top 6 like Frolov for instance, that you guys might actually be one of the few teams that could actually use him. Kaberle and Yandle could make one hell of a power play rearguard.

Thoughts?

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Old
05-24-2010, 10:14 PM
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You take Vandermeer with you. It's the only way salaries even come close, and actually seems like a player Burke would like. We don't need Kaberle in the slightest, but pointing out how your trade would have to go down.

Assuming Z walks and Wolski is un-signable this is not a terrible deal. It's a matter of convincing Kaberle to not sulk here.

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05-24-2010, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
You take Vandermeer with you. It's the only way salaries even come close, and actually seems like a player Burke would like. We don't need Kaberle in the slightest, but pointing out how your trade would have to go down.

Assuming Z walks and Wolski is un-signable this is not a terrible deal. It's a matter of convincing Kaberle to not sulk here.
Well, yeah. This does of course assume he's somehow in good spirits over there. I was looking at it from a hockey standpoint.

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05-24-2010, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by slapshots1515 View Post
Well, yeah. This does of course assume he's somehow in good spirits over there. I was looking at it from a hockey standpoint.
From a hockey standpoint the Coyotes absolutely do not need Kaberle. Most teams PP troubles do stem from having a lack of a QB. That is not the case here. In fact, if you look at the guys on our blueline they all at one point QB'd PPs and all have shots. The problem comes from the fact that once the Coyotes became the top scoring D unit teams started to key in on them, and deny them shots from the point. Because we had no semblance of a net prescence and were scared to death of the cross ice pass, the PP was ineffective.

It was only until Jovo moved to the front of the net did the PP start to work a bit. Early in the year, it was due to lack of talent. Late in the year, it was just a lot of bad luck. Hesitation is the key word. I don't think Kaberle does anything to fix those problems. In fact, Wolski made the Coyotes more dynamic. I'd argue he's worth overpaying, at this point. Especially given his performance in the playoffs.

Kaberle is a good player, but just not right for the Coyotes.

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05-24-2010, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
From a hockey standpoint the Coyotes absolutely do not need Kaberle. Most teams PP troubles do stem from having a lack of a QB. That is not the case here. In fact, if you look at the guys on our blueline they all at one point QB'd PPs and all have shots. The problem comes from the fact that once the Coyotes became the top scoring D unit teams started to key in on them, and deny them shots from the point. Because we had no semblance of a net prescence and were scared to death of the cross ice pass, the PP was ineffective.

It was only until Jovo moved to the front of the net did the PP start to work a bit. Early in the year, it was due to lack of talent. Late in the year, it was just a lot of bad luck. Hesitation is the key word. I don't think Kaberle does anything to fix those problems. In fact, Wolski made the Coyotes more dynamic. I'd argue he's worth overpaying, at this point. Especially given his performance in the playoffs.

Kaberle is a good player, but just not right for the Coyotes.
Ok, fair enough. Admittedly I'm working from a limited sample; from what I saw it looked like you guys could use a puck mover off on the side, with Yandle up on the point to shoot and direct the puck as well.

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05-24-2010, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by slapshots1515 View Post
Ok, fair enough. Admittedly I'm working from a limited sample; from what I saw it looked like you guys could use a puck mover off on the side, with Yandle up on the point to shoot and direct the puck as well.
Coyotes couldn't collapse a U-Haul box, much less another teams PK. A healthy Scottie Upshall and a new year are all the team needs. Going forward, Yandle will be the main trigger guy. I'm not sure where Jovo fits in all of this. I'm guessing the front of the net, as they seemed to love him there. The Coyotes were the 4th best team in the league while having the worst PP. That should terrify other teams, especially in the west.

Puck movement is actually the bane of our existence. Where's that sobering pass-pass-pass-pass-pass-blocked shot .gif when you need it?

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05-24-2010, 10:33 PM
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No. Takes from an area of weakness to add to an area of strength.

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05-25-2010, 09:35 AM
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Agreed, rt.

Wolski is a very important piece of the team moving forward. We need to add to our compliment of skilled forwards not take away.

Kaberle would be nice but not at that price.

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05-25-2010, 01:29 PM
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Yeah I mean don't get me wrong, the value is there, but we need offense, and Wolski will be heavily relied on to provide it. When the Coyotes drafted Mueller, they were expecting him to be a franchise player, things didn't work out, so we traded him for another young player who needed a change of scenery. We aren't just going to give up on that asset. In a way, that's giving up a top 10 pick for a guy that may be retiring in a few years.

Besides, we have our own little version of Kaberle in Jovonovski, he has really stepped it up over the past few years. I am confident in our current D system, and excited for our future defensive core.

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05-25-2010, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wabbit3119 View Post
Yeah I mean don't get me wrong, the value is there, but we need offense, and Wolski will be heavily relied on to provide it. When the Coyotes drafted Mueller, they were expecting him to be a franchise player, things didn't work out, so we traded him for another young player who needed a change of scenery. We aren't just going to give up on that asset. In a way, that's giving up a top 10 pick for a guy that may be retiring in a few years.

Besides, we have our own little version of Kaberle in Jovonovski, he has really stepped it up over the past few years. I am confident in our current D system, and excited for our future defensive core.
Alright, I see exactly what you're saying...until you put Jovo in the Kaberle role. I don't necessarily think of a pure puck mover when I think of Jovo (actually, I kind of think of the anti-Kaberle-guy who doesn't move the puck particularly well, but why actually plays physical defense).

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05-25-2010, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshots1515 View Post
Alright, I see exactly what you're saying...until you put Jovo in the Kaberle role. I don't necessarily think of a pure puck mover when I think of Jovo (actually, I kind of think of the anti-Kaberle-guy who doesn't move the puck particularly well, but why actually plays physical defense).
Jovo has a physical edge, but he's more like Kaberle than you seem to believe. He was forced to play a more defensive role this past season out of circumstance, but he produces similar numbers to Kabele when given free reign. Good first pass out of the zone and good breakout speed, while being just as porous defensively as Kaberle can be.

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05-25-2010, 05:00 PM
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1 year of Kaberle doesn't equate to 3+ potential years of Wolski. Phoenix is still a team largely devoid of top-level skill and removing Wolski from our team hurts us short-term and long-term. I'd pass.

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05-25-2010, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshots1515 View Post
Alright, I see exactly what you're saying...until you put Jovo in the Kaberle role. I don't necessarily think of a pure puck mover when I think of Jovo (actually, I kind of think of the anti-Kaberle-guy who doesn't move the puck particularly well, but why actually plays physical defense).
I should have emphasized the "little" when I said "our own little version"

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05-26-2010, 06:54 PM
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God.... whates with the leafs fans all wanting to trade kaberle??

ITS ANNOYING

and its all over the boards

Not saying this is a bad trade, IDK if i would do it, but it would be intresting.

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05-27-2010, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by PhXcoyotes View Post
God.... whates with the leafs fans all wanting to trade kaberle??

ITS ANNOYING

and its all over the boards

Not saying this is a bad trade, IDK if i would do it, but it would be intresting.
Not a Leafs fan. And trust me, I was hesitant to spread a Kaberle trade, but I actually thought it was interesting and wanted to see what the thoughts were on it.

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05-27-2010, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshots1515 View Post
Not a Leafs fan. And trust me, I was hesitant to spread a Kaberle trade, but I actually thought it was interesting and wanted to see what the thoughts were on it.
Strictly from an asset management perspective you're suggesting the Coyotes trade Wolski, Peter Mueller and Kevin Porter for Kaberle and a 3rd. Makes no sense. Wolski was brought here to contribute as a scoring forward and did just that. If you don't think you can re-sign him, more likely you move him for forward help signed for more than a year. Kaberle just isn't that valuable to Phoenix to give up that much. And the 3rd adds zero value.

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05-27-2010, 04:33 PM
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Repeating much of the same sentiment but I think Wolski is here long term. He is the style of player you can build a team around and we need to develop a core of young leadership (thinking Yandle, Upshall, Wolski) because Doaner and the vets are unfortunately another year older and not going to be able to carry this team forever. Should be an extremely interesting offseason for us though and I'm excited to see what moves GMDM does make.

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05-27-2010, 11:35 PM
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I would never do that deal...Kaberle is a good player but I like what Wolski has brought to the team.

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05-28-2010, 02:04 AM
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I thought Wolski was fantastic in the playoffs--seemed to fit in well with the system, I didn't see too much egregious floating, and he appears to like playing here. We're already strong on defense.

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05-28-2010, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RR View Post
Strictly from an asset management perspective you're suggesting the Coyotes trade Wolski, Peter Mueller and Kevin Porter for Kaberle and a 3rd. Makes no sense. Wolski was brought here to contribute as a scoring forward and did just that. If you don't think you can re-sign him, more likely you move him for forward help signed for more than a year. Kaberle just isn't that valuable to Phoenix to give up that much. And the 3rd adds zero value.
I certainly understand your perspective, but your argument that you're trading all three for him doesn't seem to make sense. Now if you want to say that essentially you're trading Peter Mueller and Kevin Porter, from an asset management point, that makes sinse, since that's what you had to give up to get Wolski. At no point did you have all three though, so it doesn't make sense to say you're giving up all three for Kaberle.

But I do get the rest of your post and all.

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06-10-2010, 02:00 PM
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pmd is the last of the coyotes worries

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