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What will it take to get Hornqvist signed?

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Old
06-09-2010, 03:14 PM
  #51
worstfaceoffmanever
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Also, we've never signed someone to an extension the offseason before they were due to be UFA/RFA.
Vokoun was extended just before camps opened back in 2006.

I look for Hornqvist to take a two- or three-year deal at reasonable money (no higher than $3M) with the promise that continued production of this caliber will set him up for life in Music City.

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06-09-2010, 06:14 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Vokoun was extended just before camps opened back in 2006.

I look for Hornqvist to take a two- or three-year deal at reasonable money (no higher than $3M) with the promise that continued production of this caliber will set him up for life in Music City.
mason was extended in july before his contract expired.(after the firesale)

Vokouns extension was critical because he had to be traded before july 1st before his NTC kicked in.

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06-09-2010, 07:03 PM
  #53
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Dulzhok, maybe it's just me but it really seems like you have a major issue with Poile. Maybe so much of one that you let things that (maybe) happened blow up out of proportion. Of course a GM is going to say "yeah we totally would've traded for that guy!" after picking up a player who seemed destined to be a career minor leaguer and he turned out to produce. It makes you look good. Maybe he would have traded for Pevs, maybe he wouldn't have. The fact remains the kid had multiple shots with offensively talented linemates and never cut it in Nashville. We needed the room, and he wasn't panning out. He had to go. About Dumont and Arnott having to contact Nashville first, do you honestly think a GM has the time to contact every free agent in an attempt to woo him to the club? This is one of the reasons an athlete needs an agent. 1) to contact clubs in an effort to find the best fit and/or money and 2) to negotiate contracts. It's the job.

On the Hornqvist/arbitration front, from what I've read he will not be eligible for arbitration. The only way he would be eligible after two seasons is if he signed his first NHL contract at or after the age of 24. He is only 23 and has played two seasons of professional hockey in NA. Unless I'm missing something he isn't eligible until his next contract expires.

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06-09-2010, 07:25 PM
  #54
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I just said he's a passive GM. Call it pateince or whatever you want, but if you follow GMs the last 12 years, he's one of the least active. But to answer your question, no I don't he's the guy to take us to the next level, but I'm not diving into that again. He holds the NHL record for most 1st rd exits best I can tell.

He's a quiet and "patient" guy. Very rarely has he been aggressive in anything. So yeah, I will speculate that he's not a "go get it done" type of guy in contract negotiations. Sometimes that may work to his advantage. Sometimes it may not.

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06-09-2010, 09:02 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
It sure sounded me to like he's petitioning to get a bigger contract.
Agreed.

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06-09-2010, 10:05 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I just said he's a passive GM. Call it pateince or whatever you want, but if you follow GMs the last 12 years, he's one of the least active. But to answer your question, no I don't he's the guy to take us to the next level, but I'm not diving into that again. He holds the NHL record for most 1st rd exits best I can tell.

He's a quiet and "patient" guy. Very rarely has he been aggressive in anything. So yeah, I will speculate that he's not a "go get it done" type of guy in contract negotiations. Sometimes that may work to his advantage. Sometimes it may not.
So how many GM's have re-signed many of their restricted or unrestricted free agents so far? Most have been minor signings at best. Seidenberg is probably the biggest name re-signed so far. I really don't know what your beef or complaint is considering no one else has really done anything either. It means either most GM's are patient or passive or this is the way it works. You aren't in his office, you aren't at his home answering his phone either. Until you have definitive proof of what he's doing or not doing you might want to reconsider what you're saying.

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06-09-2010, 10:26 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Until you have definitive proof of what he's doing or not doing you might want to reconsider what you're saying.
"Can't say this with any certainty, but I will speculate."

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06-09-2010, 10:31 PM
  #58
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I agree that Poile tends to be patient. I also understand that with the way this organization has to operate that Poile's patience, depending largely on his decision making, is a benefit. As a fan base we must face the reality that we can't afford a GM that goes out on a limb for a high priced player every off season. We need a guy who understands how to operate with constraints. Don't blame Poile for the way he has to manage this team. Blame people who have both an interest in the Preds and the disposable income to go to games but decide not to.

(And Washington wasn't a big budget team in the pre-salary cap mid-to-late 90s.)

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06-09-2010, 10:36 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
So how many GM's have re-signed many of their restricted or unrestricted free agents so far? Most have been minor signings at best. Seidenberg is probably the biggest name re-signed so far.
Other big ones, to name a few:

Kessler, Backstrom, Nash, Vermette, Griere, Hejduk, Eriksson, Ott, Peverly, Letang, Semin, Robias, plus more....

I'm not saying Hornquvist should definitely be signed by now. But to copy and paste again: "I will speculate that Poile's not a "go get it done" type of guy in contract negotiations."

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06-09-2010, 10:52 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Other big ones, to name a few:

Kessler, Backstrom, Nash, Vermette, Griere, Hejduk, Eriksson, Ott, Peverly, Letang, Semin, Robias, plus more....

I'm not saying Hornquvist should definitely be signed by now. But to copy and paste again: "I will speculate that Poile's not a "go get it done" type of guy in contract negotiations."
Forgot a lot of those in recent weeks and signings during the season. Big difference with some of those guys versus Hornqvist, most of them have track records already whereas Hornqvist has had one very good season. I do not envy Poile in trying to negotiate this deal. Here's the last guy in the draft, 2 goals last year, 30 this year, heart and soul guy that stands in front of the net, how do you compensate him fairly while keeping within your budget.

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06-10-2010, 12:32 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Other big ones, to name a few:

Kessler, Backstrom, Nash, Vermette, Griere, Hejduk, Eriksson, Ott, Peverly, Letang, Semin, Robias, plus more....Goc, Tootoo, and Rinne

I'm not saying Hornquvist should definitely be signed by now. But to copy and paste again: "I will speculate that Poile's not a "go get it done" type of guy in contract negotiations."
FTFY

I personally hope Poile will push a 3 year 8 million dollar contract and if there is no accepting that for Hornqvist move it up to 3 years 9 million. I know its higher than some of the numbers here but the kid scored 30 goals in his first full season in the NHL. I don't even think I would be too mad if Poile gave Hornqvist 3.5 or 4 a year. It would be uncharacteristic of Poile and would change future plans, but I think Hornqvist will be around the top of our goal scorers.

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06-10-2010, 01:54 AM
  #62
dulzhok
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Originally Posted by Webersmashpuck View Post
FTFY

I personally hope Poile will push a 3 year 8 million dollar contract and if there is no accepting that for Hornqvist move it up to 3 years 9 million. I know its higher than some of the numbers here but the kid scored 30 goals in his first full season in the NHL. I don't even think I would be too mad if Poile gave Hornqvist 3.5 or 4 a year. It would be uncharacteristic of Poile and would change future plans, but I think Hornqvist will be around the top of our goal scorers.
I wasn't including lower pay scale guys, but yeah, Rinne is one significant signing that's done. Poile did show some proactivity there.

I think our dream contract comparable for Hornqvist is Dustin Brown- 7 years, 21 million.

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06-10-2010, 07:14 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I'm not saying Hornquvist should definitely be signed by now. But to copy and paste again: "I will speculate that Poile's not a "go get it done" type of guy in contract negotiations."
Interesting. I've always thought there were two sides to a negotiation. How do we know that Poile hasn't made his offer and the other side is stalling to see what happens elsewhere? Does "get it done" mean close the deal no matter the price?

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06-10-2010, 07:38 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
Interesting. I've always thought there were two sides to a negotiation. How do we know that Poile hasn't made his offer and the other side is stalling to see what happens elsewhere? Does "get it done" mean close the deal no matter the price?
its the same mentality that causes people to get mad at poile for not making a trade without knowing if the other team would have even been willing to deal with us.

I wont complain until we lose a player we should have had. Otherwise, as long as they are signed in time to get to camp next fall, its all good.

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06-10-2010, 08:29 AM
  #65
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Patience is the key on this. Agents are constantly talking with Poile about contracts or blowing proverbial sunshine about their player up Poile's yingyang.

I would rather Poile sign Hornqvist to a good deal not a quick deal.

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06-10-2010, 01:30 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
Interesting. I've always thought there were two sides to a negotiation. How do we know that Poile hasn't made his offer and the other side is stalling to see what happens elsewhere? Does "get it done" mean close the deal no matter the price?
We don't know anything. I'm just saying I would guess he's not an aggressive contract negotiator. Also, Shero was in charge of contract negotiations when he was here. I think that Poile is now the lead negotiator, but I dont know for sure.

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06-10-2010, 01:51 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
We don't know anything. I'm just saying I would guess he's not an aggressive contract negotiator. Also, Shero was in charge of contract negotiations when he was here. I think that Poile is now the lead negotiator, but I dont know for sure.
So this all speculation on your part with no basis of fact.

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06-10-2010, 03:45 PM
  #68
dulzhok
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
So this all speculation on your part with no basis of fact.
YES. I've only said so explictily atleast 4 times. This whole website is built around speculation.

Speculate on prospects, speculate on free agents, speculate on who's going to win games, speculate roster changes, speculate on when/if Radulov comes back, speculate on Hamhuis, speculate on Hornqvist negotiations.


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06-10-2010, 04:15 PM
  #69
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Wait... I think I've been leaving the boards alone too much lately. Can we not discuss facts on here any longer? Damn it! And I was just beginning to learn a thing or two about the game. Glenn has been around for a while. I wouldn't be so quick to be condescending unless that's just your nature.

I look for Hornqvist to be locked up in the next couple of weeks. His case is a bit of a tricky one, so negotiations should be expected to linger. Maybe around the time of the draft we finally see something done.

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06-11-2010, 07:25 AM
  #70
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Wait... I think I've been leaving the boards alone too much lately. Can we not discuss facts on here any longer? Damn it! And I was just beginning to learn a thing or two about the game. Glenn has been around for a while. I wouldn't be so quick to be condescending unless that's just your nature.
With all due respect, Dulzhok is discussing facts as well. He's just adding in his opinion. Whether we like the opinion or not, it's a valid one from a valid poster. This board would be pointless if we just rehashed facts read in the Tennessean or elsewhere.

There are plenty of knowledgeable posters on this board that know a lot about hockey and a lot about the Predators. Pushing them into a box built solely on facts defeats one of the primary purposes of this message board. Otherwise, there would only need to be one thread called, "Relevant facts regarding the Predators: An amalgum of newspaper interviews and other quotes from the Predators."

In the end, facts merit no discussion in and of themselves. They are facts. They aren't arguable. The only discussion points regarding facts are our opinions surrounding those facts, opinions that are generally born from those facts. "What was his motivation in saying that?"
"I wonder if this means he'll consider trading our draft pick?" "Why does Hartnell look so homeless?" It is pointless to ask those questions in a world of only facts unless there is a factual gatekeeper posting on these boards that has all these facts and distributes them from time to time upon our request. Opinion is what steps in and leads to a series of potential answers regarding those questions. They are based in fact but are not fact, since the Preds likely wouldn't give you the answer anyways.

We need opinions on these boards. That you don't agree with them is OK. Dulzhok has a history of taking stances that aren't always carried by the mainstream poster here. But his posts are based on facts and his interpretation of those facts. Honestly, what else could you ask for?


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06-11-2010, 08:04 AM
  #71
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I would consider Poile being passive a fact to be honest. dulzhok is right. The guy is very passive; sometimes that works out for him, other times... not so much.

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06-11-2010, 08:36 AM
  #72
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I am really uncertain how anyone could even remotely consider Poile as NOT being passive. As far as I can tell, he may be the most passive general manager in the game.

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06-11-2010, 08:57 AM
  #73
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He's passive but what tools does he have to attack? He's low on the cash needed to sign players. He can't give out a risky stupid contract because he can't afford it and look at Milwaukee, there is enough talent there to help Nashville when they need a player.

Let's look at the roster and see what have been the points of contention in Poile's career.

Legwand: He was the second best player in the draft and Poile took him. Nashville was not going to get Marty no matter what trade happened. By the way, that draft year sucked hard core and Poile still managed to get 4 NHLers when the rest of the league was happy to get 1.

Arnott and Dumont: Starting to show their age and because of that they are underachieving. Is that Poile's fault? Is Poile to be blamed for time passing?

Passive in signing big FAs: Ok, give him the money to go git er done! Oh wait that's the ownerships' fault not Poile's.

What CAN you give him credit for?

Drafting: Seriously, this guy drafts talent look at his late rounders: Rinne, Erat, Hornqvist. His draft record is like the Beatles' record catalouge; hit after hit after hit. Last year was phenomenal, so was the year before so was the Legwand/Erat draft only because of the amount of suck that happened to be in it and he still managed to get a good draft out of it.

Cheap FAs he DOES sign: Dan Ellis, Chris Mason, Joel Ward. Most of these guys are junkheap scraps and with the combo of Poile and Trotz they turn chicken **** into chicken salad.

Talking to Canadians gives you a perspective. Most of the wonderful people up north would genocide Nashville to get their hands on both Poile and Trotz. Look at the teams Balisillie tried to steal: Pittsburgh, need I say more? Nashville, and Phoenix; who looks like a talented teams. He didn't go after any scrubs but went for talented teams.

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Old
06-11-2010, 09:11 AM
  #74
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I think passive can be looked at a few ways. One way is what we see as a direct result of his work. We see the trades, the signings and the drafts. That is what we know happens.

What we don't see is how any of that is accomplished. So on the surface it may look passive but what goes on behind closed doors is anybody's guess. How many of us think he's sitting by the pool right now drinking margarita's enjoying the hot humid summer here in Nashville? Maybe he's down at CMA Fest getting his favorite country stars signatures all week. Then again, maybe he's on the phone with agents of his free agents, talking to his scouts, talking to ownership and trying to figure out how to re-sign a bunch of guys with very little money to do so or talking to other GM's about trades so he can free up some money to keep some of the guys he wants to? Just because one is not outwardly aggressive doesn't necessarily make them passive either.

I'd say he's cool, calm and collected more than anything. If he didn't like the situation here he could've left for greener pastures as he's had some offers from teams up north such as Toronto. He would've had an open check book yet he remained here. Personally, I'm glad he stayed as he knows how to keep a competitive team on the ice year after year. Am I always happy with the end result, no but I see some growth in this team and hopefully that keeps getting better and better.

As far as the thread goes, he has a tough job ahead of him to re-sign Hornqvist and a few others. Getting him signed along with a few of the defensemen will be his biggest challenge. Hornqvist needs to be re-signed plain and simple. What it's going to cost is anybody's guess at this point.

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06-11-2010, 09:18 AM
  #75
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here is another fact about hornvqist. We absolutely should compare him and his salary to holmstrom. Even in holmstrom's prime. holmstrom has NEVER made over 2.25 million. NEVER

http://www.hockeyzoneplus.com/salaries/1614

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