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Old
06-10-2010, 07:23 PM
  #26
Craig71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
Except that Plekanec wishes to stay in Montreal may actually be legitimate. It's the only place he knows.

Reportedly, Plekanec's camp demands are very high, in the order of 6M. I really don't see Gauthier giving him this kind of money. If they don't change their position, pursuing other options become more interesting; it may involve a trade, but it could also make our team better than we are with Plekanec. All this will have to wait for draft day, or around draft day.
If that is the asking price then the Habs will have to say bye bye. I would give him 4 mill for 2 years and no more. We will handcuff our team if he is given 6 million, he does not bring enough to get that much money. I like him but we need some more size at center and maybe he can be replaced with a UFA.

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06-10-2010, 08:59 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by RoyBoyCoy View Post
DISREGARD PLEKS

ACQUIRE PAVELSKI
you wish he would be available, SJ will lose Marleau before they ever think of losing Pavelski

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06-10-2010, 09:29 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by HEPG24 View Post
you wish he would be available, SJ will lose Marleau before they ever think of losing Pavelski
In a way SJ should probably trade Pavelski after his crazy playoff run; he's a 50-60 point center which is a very good second line center, but some sucker may well offer #1 center assets for Pavelski because of his 17-in-15 playoffs.

I don't want him, not because I don't think he's a good player, but because at this moment he will cost more than he's worth.

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06-10-2010, 10:12 PM
  #29
otto bond
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
In a way SJ should probably trade Pavelski after his crazy playoff run; he's a 50-60 point center which is a very good second line center, but some sucker may well offer #1 center assets for Pavelski because of his 17-in-15 playoffs.
I don't want him, not because I don't think he's a good player, but because at this moment he will cost more than he's worth.
Good math right there.

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06-10-2010, 10:18 PM
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Good math right there.
Don't see anything wrong.

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06-10-2010, 10:22 PM
  #31
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I would definately dangle him at the draft for a second rounder/late first.

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06-10-2010, 10:29 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
In a way SJ should probably trade Pavelski after his crazy playoff run; he's a 50-60 point center which is a very good second line center, but some sucker may well offer #1 center assets for Pavelski because of his 17-in-15 playoffs.

I don't want him, not because I don't think he's a good player, but because at this moment he will cost more than he's worth.
So Plekanec is worth less than market due to a poor playoff, and Pavelski is worth less than market due to a good playoff.

Gotcha!

Methinks some folks just don't like paying market value for players. Fair enough, but if you are going to be bargain shoppers, you have to be very careful regarding what kind of team gets cobbled together when cheap salary is the only reason to hire someone.

What I mean is this. You can either target certain types of players or specific players due to your evaluation of your needs, or you can wait for the "Afinogenov season" (August-October) and see what is available. If you go the latter route, you may not get the type of players you were looking for up front. Especially if what you were looking for is grit and a winner attitude, because those guys were the first to be snapped up.

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06-10-2010, 10:38 PM
  #33
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We already have teams that are in cap hell and want to trade players away. Which will further illustrate that not to many teams will dish out huge bucks for pleks. The guys good but I don't expect much more that 5 million. If a GM pulls more than 5 million on this guy they are stupid and deserve to be fired. Thats hopefully why PG didn't sign him yet. The guy can't be that stupid. Good luck Pleks ttrying to test FA. He probably won't get much more than what the CH are offering. Maybe enough to say adios Amigos.

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06-10-2010, 10:38 PM
  #34
Watsatheo
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If 6mil was the most Cammalleri got offered coming off a 39 goal 80+ point season why would Plekanec get anything close. He'll get closer to Antropov type money imo.


Last edited by Watsatheo: 06-10-2010 at 10:59 PM.
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06-10-2010, 10:46 PM
  #35
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Hawks need to get rid of salary. I wonder if they are inclined to trade Sharp...

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06-10-2010, 10:48 PM
  #36
MathMan
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Methinks some folks just don't like paying market value for players.
I don't mind paying market value. But I'm pretty confident that after Pavelski's playoff run, SJ will find some sucker who will go well over market value for him. He's a good player, but not an elite one; but he's being hyped as one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
What I mean is this. You can either target certain types of players or specific players due to your evaluation of your needs, or you can wait for the "Afinogenov season" (August-October) and see what is available.
I think you need to do both actually. Bargain-hunting is how you're going to get the best impact-for-cap-space ratio (eg. most bang for the buck) but you need to ice a complete team, too.

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06-10-2010, 10:56 PM
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I think you need to do both actually. Bargain-hunting is how you're going to get the best impact-for-cap-space ratio (eg. most bang for the buck) but you need to ice a complete team, too.
Fair enough, but I would never wait ONLY for bargain season unless I felt I had no major needs to address on my team.

Whatsatheo had a good point concerning Cammalleri versus Plekanec. I don't know about Antropov money, but I think a long-term contract at $4.5M is fair, given that Pleks has had two productive seasons in the last four. Clearly he is a streaky guy, streakier than most top scorers.

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06-11-2010, 05:04 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
In a way SJ should probably trade Pavelski after his crazy playoff run; he's a 50-60 point center which is a very good second line center, but some sucker may well offer #1 center assets for Pavelski because of his 17-in-15 playoffs..
He's a 50-60 point center? He's already had 59 points two years ago, this year he had 51 in 67 (62 point pace) then a stellar playoff run. He turns 26 this summer so he won't be hitting his prime for a couple years. Safe to say his ceiling is comfortably above 50-60 points...

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06-11-2010, 06:40 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by starglider View Post
He's a 50-60 point center? He's already had 59 points two years ago, this year he had 51 in 67 (62 point pace) then a stellar playoff run. He turns 26 this summer so he won't be hitting his prime for a couple years. Safe to say his ceiling is comfortably above 50-60 points...
I don't think it's "safe to say" at all. His ceiling might be slightly higher than what we've seen but it's not likely to be signficantly higher; before I call him anything more than a 50-60 points center, I'd like to see at least one season above that range from him, and at age 26, it's starting to become iffy to project a big increase.

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06-11-2010, 08:11 AM
  #40
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I hope Gauthier is working hard for the next couple of weeks. This is crunch time. If I'm Plekanenc's agent I'm saying flat out "wait til July 1st". If I'm Pleks... well, it all comes down to whether I'm really happy and comfortable or not in Montreal. If I am, then I'm willing to keep the negotiations going, but... if they haven't already got something mostly worked out, it's not a good sign IMHO. It shouldn't be that hard, if the player is already inclined to stay.

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Old
06-11-2010, 08:17 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsauce514 View Post
Hi ,

We are now less than 3 week from july first and plekanec is not sign yet. I think at this time , he will wait to see what he can get on the UFA market.......And obviously some GM will give him the money he want .


Plekanec will be hard to replace , but still good ridance ( specially if he asked more than 4,5 M$). That means we loose an other good player for nothing.....Did it worth keeping plekanec to get to the ECF ?
Gotta get used to it, it happens every year, on every team. That's the reality of the salary cap. What's good about this is that we can also sign someone without giving anything in return. So losing a player these days is not as bad as it was before the salary cap era.

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06-11-2010, 08:39 AM
  #42
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He has to get himself into the social pipeline first.
So he's definitely moving to Colorado. I'd insert a comment about the French, but I'm not sure everyone will get the reference.

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06-11-2010, 09:03 AM
  #43
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
If 6mil was the most Cammalleri got offered coming off a 39 goal 80+ point season why would Plekanec get anything close. He'll get closer to Antropov type money imo.
gionta got 5M coming off a 20g 60pt season...

so using that logic alone, Plekanec should be coming in somewhere around ~5.5M after a 25g/70pt season.

the problem with that, however, is that the market is set much more by demand than it is by previous years contracts.

several factors go into Pleks favour:

- unlike cammalleri, who had hossa, gaborik, havlat, gionta and kovalev as "competition" (other goal scoring winger options for teams with that need), Plekanec only really has Marleau, and to a lesser extent, jokinen and lombardi. fewer options for teams to chose from = greater demand

- if i heard correctly, cap is set to go up by 2M this year, a bigger boost than last year

- while people around here seem to bemoan his post-season play, i'd bet he did nothing but increase his value... his production until the conference finals (where the whole team stopped scoring) was good, he played through injury, he was the best PK on the best playoff PK unit, and in my eyes answered any questions as to wether or not he could handle himself in the high-pressure high-contact play of the post-season

- every year there are a few players that end up getting much more than anyone thought, if his agent plays his cards right, this could be Plekanec's year

- every team wants a turtle-neck gangsta


i think if we get him for ~5M, it's because he tells his agent to give the habs a hometown discount, otherwise, I'd expect him to go for closer to 6M if he goes to the highest bidder.

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06-11-2010, 09:38 AM
  #44
Watsatheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
gionta got 5M coming off a 20g 60pt season...

so using that logic alone, Plekanec should be coming in somewhere around ~5.5M after a 25g/70pt season.

the problem with that, however, is that the market is set much more by demand than it is by previous years contracts.

several factors go into Pleks favour:

- unlike cammalleri, who had hossa, gaborik, havlat, gionta and kovalev as "competition" (other goal scoring winger options for teams with that need), Plekanec only really has Marleau, and to a lesser extent, jokinen and lombardi. fewer options for teams to chose from = greater demand

- if i heard correctly, cap is set to go up by 2M this year, a bigger boost than last year

- while people around here seem to bemoan his post-season play, i'd bet he did nothing but increase his value... his production until the conference finals (where the whole team stopped scoring) was good, he played through injury, he was the best PK on the best playoff PK unit, and in my eyes answered any questions as to wether or not he could handle himself in the high-pressure high-contact play of the post-season

- every year there are a few players that end up getting much more than anyone thought, if his agent plays his cards right, this could be Plekanec's year

- every team wants a turtle-neck gangsta


i think if we get him for ~5M, it's because he tells his agent to give the habs a hometown discount, otherwise, I'd expect him to go for closer to 6M if he goes to the highest bidder.
Gionta has a history of producing at top end numbers and was making 4mil the year prior so he was surely not going to look for a pay cut. For example Ryder was paid for what he did prior to his ufa season. Less free agents ufa wise (which also means less teams looking to replace their high priced players unlike say Montreal last off season) but there are way more top end rfas and teams with cap issues. I'm not saying he won't get 5, I'm saying he won't get 6. IMO he'll get between 4-5 in the open market. Historically (post lockout) that's what people with a career high of 70 points tend to get if I'm not mistaken.

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06-11-2010, 09:44 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsauce514 View Post
Hi ,

We are now less than 3 week from july first and plekanec is not sign yet. I think at this time , he will wait to see what he can get on the UFA market.......And obviously some GM will give him the money he want .


Plekanec will be hard to replace , but still good ridance ( specially if he asked more than 4,5 M$). That means we loose an other good player for nothing.....Did it worth keeping plekanec to get to the ECF ?

We NEED to re-sign him!!!! There is no available free agent centers that have the skill that Pleky has. Everybody is willing to throw away his 70 point season because he had a bad playoffs....saying that we don't need him and he's not worth keeping around. Well thats BULL!!!! The Habs wouldn't have made the playoffs at all without Pleky and I'm about 99% sure that he was injured for the whole playoffs as well which effected his play.

The guy is young and worth keeping around. He'll only get better and better and I for one am getting sick of watching the Habs let talented players walk away for nothing.

I'm guessing he'll sign a 3 or 4 year deal worth between $4 and $5 million a season.....and he's worth every penny of that!!!!

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06-11-2010, 09:48 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Gionta has a history of producing at top end numbers and was making 4mil the year prior so he was surely not going to look for a pay cut. For example Ryder was paid for what he did prior to his ufa season. Less free agents ufa wise (which also means less teams looking to replace their high priced players unlike say Montreal last off season) but there are way more top end rfas and teams with cap issues. I'm not saying he won't get 5, I'm saying he won't get 6. IMO he'll get between 4-5 in the open market. Historically (post lockout) that's what people with a career high of 70 points tend to get if I'm not mistaken.
i hope you're right!

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Old
06-11-2010, 10:49 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
i hope you're right!

If Plekanec goes and we end up with Gomez, Gionta and Pouliot on the 1st line and AK, SK and Cammelleri on the 2nd there really isn't anybody on the top 2 lines that is suited to Martin's system, which can't be good for Martin's career longevity.

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06-11-2010, 11:00 AM
  #48
BigTime
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Originally Posted by starglider View Post
He's a 50-60 point center? He's already had 59 points two years ago, this year he had 51 in 67 (62 point pace) then a stellar playoff run. He turns 26 this summer so he won't be hitting his prime for a couple years. Safe to say his ceiling is comfortably above 50-60 points...
I agree i think the playoffs were his coming out party, he looks strong on the puck and has sweet hands, he will put up MINIMUM 50 points a season even if he doesnt play the entire season, and look for a 70-75 points from him next year

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06-11-2010, 11:02 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I don't think it's "safe to say" at all. His ceiling might be slightly higher than what we've seen but it's not likely to be signficantly higher; before I call him anything more than a 50-60 points center, I'd like to see at least one season above that range from him, and at age 26, it's starting to become iffy to project a big increase.
thats not true, some players bloom later, and at 26 look for the next few years to be career numbers, signing him to a 2-3 year deal even if "higher" than youd like would be a smart move IMO

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06-11-2010, 11:36 AM
  #50
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
If Plekanec goes and we end up with Gomez, Gionta and Pouliot on the 1st line and AK, SK and Cammelleri on the 2nd there really isn't anybody on the top 2 lines that is suited to Martin's system, which can't be good for Martin's career longevity.
the funny/scary thing about it is that 4 of those 6 players were brought in AFTER Martin was hired as coach...

if they aren't suited to the system the coach is running, what in the world was management thinking???

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