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Lundqvist played with sore knee late in the season

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Old
06-11-2010, 08:44 AM
  #26
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a backup in absolutely necessary now, more than ever.

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06-11-2010, 09:59 AM
  #27
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Trade him. Lundqvist for Toews.

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06-11-2010, 10:51 AM
  #28
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Greatest TV SHOW OF ALL TIME!
I agree

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06-11-2010, 11:16 AM
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As it is right now we're probably going to suck next season so expect Tortorella to ignore all logic again

I'm not sure Auld is good enough for us to start him 20 games and still make the playoffs. I have more confidence in Hedberg

Still, it's time to try another approach.
False. Hedberg would be the worst choice. I watch him more than 95 percent of the ppl on the ranger boards to since I live in atlanta and watch enough thrashers hockey.

That being said hedberg has without a doubt lost it a little bit. You can tell he's getting old and its starting to affect his game slightly. Auld would be a much better choice. Biron would be ideal but I doubt he wants to take a back up position.

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06-11-2010, 01:20 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post
False. Hedberg would be the worst choice. I watch him more than 95 percent of the ppl on the ranger boards to since I live in atlanta and watch enough thrashers hockey.

That being said hedberg has without a doubt lost it a little bit. You can tell he's getting old and its starting to affect his game slightly. Auld would be a much better choice. Biron would be ideal but I doubt he wants to take a back up position.
Why would Biron not want to take a backup position? There aren't many teams looking for starters, and you've got: Nabakov, Chris Mason, Marty Turco, Jose Theodore, Ray Emery, Antero Nittymaki and Michael Leighton all hitting the FA market this off-season.

You've got these teams definitely looking for starters: St. Louis, Philly
And these teams looking for guys that can play significant time and maybe take the starting role: San Jose, NYI, Edmonton (maybe), Dallas, Tampa Bay
And these teams POSSIBLY looking for a FA backup: Washington, Nashville, NYR, NJD, Carolina, Buffalo, Atlanta

There are also goalies that are on the trading block...Tim Thomas, Jonathan Quick/Bernier in LA, Vokoun...

Biron barely got any offers last season. He's not going to get a ton this season either. I'm willing to bet Buffalo brings him back as their back-up to let Miller rest more.

It's a buyers market for goalies this off-season.


I think the best options for the Rangers are Auld, Dan Ellis, Andrew Raycroft, or Nittymaki. Preferably Auld or Nittymaki.

I think Chad Johnson is ready to play 20 games a season, the problem is if he or Lundqvist got hurt...there'd be NO ONE in Hartford worth promoting.

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06-11-2010, 01:21 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Part of me wonders if Hedberg isn't going to be looking for a #1 job, not a backup job

And Tortorella KNOWS Lundqvist needs to play less. He just had no freaking backup goalie that could reliably spell Lundqvist.

He talked about getting Lundqvist fewer games, and then Valiquete flamed out and the Rangers were left with no real backup goalie. Not a good position ot be in
Where is Hedberg going to land a #1 job? The only place that'd give him that is a team in SEL or the KHL at this point.

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06-11-2010, 01:23 PM
  #32
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Biron wouldnt be a bad choice, or Turco.

Most of those other guys are going to want starting jobs.

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06-11-2010, 01:25 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Crazyhorse30 View Post
What else is new? He gets injured late in every season. Sometimes it becomes public, other times it does not.

The coach has to face the facts that he CANNOT handle a work load of 70+ games. Hell, what goalie has gone far in the playoffs after playing more than 70? In the last decade, only one- Martin Brodeur.

The Rangers need to get a backup capable of playing 20-25 games. Lundqvist will never win a cup if he keeps this kind of workload. If it was up to me he would be playing 55-60. No more than that.
If it was up to you we would never make the playoffs . I agree... His career will be short lived playing this much ice time.

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06-12-2010, 02:01 AM
  #34
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If Lundqvist played on a more Renney-like team, where the system revolves around team defense, I think he could probably stand to play 65-70 games a season during his prime.

Under Tortarella though? Not a chance. He'll burn out quicker than Jim Carey went from a Vezina Trophy winner to a career minor leaguer.

What's interesting is the year Torts won the cup with the lightning, John Graheme played 29 games(28 were starts I believe).

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06-12-2010, 02:07 AM
  #35
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It doesn't matter who we get. Hank won't have sucha full schedule this year (no olympics). Just don't spend more than 1 mil on a backup please.

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06-12-2010, 03:28 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
If Lundqvist played on a more Renney-like team, where the system revolves around team defense, I think he could probably stand to play 65-70 games a season during his prime.

Under Tortarella though? Not a chance. He'll burn out quicker than Jim Carey went from a Vezina Trophy winner to a career minor leaguer.

What's interesting is the year Torts won the cup with the lightning, John Graheme played 29 games(28 were starts I believe).
Henrik Lundqvists stats under Tom Renney.
05-06: 1485 Shots in 53 games. 28 shots per game.
06-07: 1927 shots in 70 games. 28 shots per game.
07-08: 1823 shots in 72 games. 25 shots per game.
08-09: 2007 shots in 70 games. 29 shots per game.


Last season under John Tortorella: 2109 shots in 73 games 29 shots per game.

only 1 season under Renney was noteworthy in how low it was comparatively, otherwise his workload is nearly identical to 3 of the 4 years under Renney.

Also, in those seasons we didnt have our backup goalie completely melt down like this year. Vally was somewhat decent in those seasons (im going off of memory, someone can look up the stats though). This year though, Torts was basically in a bind...no backup goalie you could even remotely trust till we got Alex Auld...and by then you HAD to play Henrik every game because we were in a fight to make the playoffs, which, we almost did.

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06-12-2010, 11:56 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Henrik Lundqvists stats under Tom Renney.
05-06: 1485 Shots in 53 games. 28 shots per game.
06-07: 1927 shots in 70 games. 28 shots per game.
07-08: 1823 shots in 72 games. 25 shots per game.
08-09: 2007 shots in 70 games. 29 shots per game.


Last season under John Tortorella: 2109 shots in 73 games 29 shots per game.

only 1 season under Renney was noteworthy in how low it was comparatively, otherwise his workload is nearly identical to 3 of the 4 years under Renney.

Also, in those seasons we didnt have our backup goalie completely melt down like this year. Vally was somewhat decent in those seasons (im going off of memory, someone can look up the stats though). This year though, Torts was basically in a bind...no backup goalie you could even remotely trust till we got Alex Auld...and by then you HAD to play Henrik every game because we were in a fight to make the playoffs, which, we almost did.
I'm not blaming it on Tortarella, simply stating that I think Tortarella's system doesn't allow you to play a goalie for 70-75 games and get the type of production you need. Regardless of shots per game, I think most would agree Hank had to carry this team to victory a lot more under Torts than he usually did under Renney. There's a reason Brodeur was able to do it for so long, and it's not because he's some superhuman athlete (although i'm sure that's part of it) the system helps minimize the wear and tear since he isn't standing on his head every game.

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Old
06-12-2010, 01:20 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuy1985 View Post
Biron wouldnt be a bad choice, or Turco.
Turco... For real?

1. His game overall has slipped big time over the two past seasons.
2. The guy is a primadonna and wants to be the starter, not a backup.
3. Can we even afford the guy?

__________

Re-signing Auld seems to be the best and cheapest option available.

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06-12-2010, 01:24 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Where is Hedberg going to land a #1 job? The only place that'd give him that is a team in SEL or the KHL at this point.
Hey, Toskala thinks he deserves a #1 job. Any craziness is possible

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06-12-2010, 01:25 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I'm not blaming it on Tortarella, simply stating that I think Tortarella's system doesn't allow you to play a goalie for 70-75 games and get the type of production you need. Regardless of shots per game, I think most would agree Hank had to carry this team to victory a lot more under Torts than he usually did under Renney. There's a reason Brodeur was able to do it for so long, and it's not because he's some superhuman athlete (although i'm sure that's part of it) the system helps minimize the wear and tear since he isn't standing on his head every game.
Think your way off.

Lundqvist the year we didnt have Jagr had to win 2-1, 1-0, 3-2 games all the time. If anything he was relied on a lot more, if he gave up 2-3 goals, we lost the game.

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06-12-2010, 02:18 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
Think your way off.

Lundqvist the year we didnt have Jagr had to win 2-1, 1-0, 3-2 games all the time. If anything he was relied on a lot more, if he gave up 2-3 goals, we lost the game.
How is that any different than last year? Maybe the fact that if he gave up 2-3 goals we lost is the same, but IMO there was usually a lot more pressure on him last season. The quality of chances were better (and there was probably more scoring chances against, not sure where I'd find that stat). We didn't have one come from behind win all season if we trailed going into the third, until the final stretch of games, where we had ONE.

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06-12-2010, 02:21 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Hey, Toskala thinks he deserves a #1 job. Any craziness is possible
But it doesn't really matter what they think. They're going to have to accept reality sooner than later once Nabakov, Mason, etc. are the few starting positions available are gone.

Toskala, IMO, is a LOCK to go to Europe or Russia. Probably the FNL or SEL, since he's played in both before, but I could also see the KHL because the money would be unparalleled to any other offers he's going to get.

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06-12-2010, 03:51 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I'm not blaming it on Tortarella, simply stating that I think Tortarella's system doesn't allow you to play a goalie for 70-75 games and get the type of production you need. Regardless of shots per game, I think most would agree Hank had to carry this team to victory a lot more under Torts than he usually did under Renney. There's a reason Brodeur was able to do it for so long, and it's not because he's some superhuman athlete (although i'm sure that's part of it) the system helps minimize the wear and tear since he isn't standing on his head every game.
Disagree:


(regular season only)
Henriks record in 05-06 when giving up 2 or fewer goals: 26-3-4
Henriks record in 06-07 when giving up 2 or fewer goals: 31-8-4
Henriks record in 07-08 when giving up 2 or fewer goals: 32-5-4
Henriks record in 08-09 when giving up 2 or fewer goals: 33-9-4

Henriks record in 09-10 when giving up 2 of fewer goals: 30-8-6


The winning %'s tell the story. Under Renney/Jagr he won .812 of those game where he was awesome. Under Torts/Kotalik/Higgins/Whatever he won .750

If you apply the .812 to last seasons total youre talking about 5 more points in the standings. 5 more points goes from the Rangers being out of the playoffs to the Rangers being in 6th place facing a very beatable Buffalo team.

The difference here was the goal support...Henrik didnt have to stand on his head any more than usual, his total number of games at 2 or fewer is nearly identical (not counting his rookie year) at 43, 41, 46, 44.

To me the problem with this team has been winning more of those low scoring games by scoring more goals. These guys just couldnt finish. Higgins, Kotalik, Jokinen....the list really goes on and on. Even dubi and cally should have finished more than they did despite having pretty good years. And the guy leading the parade has to be Captain Cardboard. If he scored more along his career lines, i bet you those numbers would be a lot closer to henriks career total.

To be totally honest, Ive said this before, but I think this was one of Henriks weaker years. I thought he gave up far fewer soft goals this year than he had in years past. Don't get me wrong, I still think hes one of, if not the very best goalie in the league, in the world, in the universe (the Martians have a damn good goaltending program). But, he seemed to lose us more games than he used to. Usually you could expect Henrik to lose you like 3 or 4 games a year...this year it felt more like 8 or 9. I think next year, without having to worry about the Olympics all year, he will be back on form.

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06-12-2010, 05:02 PM
  #44
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But it doesn't really matter what they think. They're going to have to accept reality sooner than later once Nabakov, Mason, etc. are the few starting positions available are gone.

Toskala, IMO, is a LOCK to go to Europe or Russia. Probably the FNL or SEL, since he's played in both before, but I could also see the KHL because the money would be unparalleled to any other offers he's going to get.
LOL Ok he's a lock right...The guy could be had for 800k or 1 mill max. You think a team won't give a former #1 a shot at that kinda money?

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06-12-2010, 05:24 PM
  #45
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It does not surprise me he was hurt. There were some games he looked slow, and was playing way deep in net.

A solid backup who can put in 20 games could improve this team by 5 or more wins.
As the teams greatest asset his health NEEDS to be protected better.
Without Henrick this team is not even sniffing playoffs.

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06-14-2010, 01:00 AM
  #46
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Please no Biron... And no Nitty either.

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06-14-2010, 01:06 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
It does not surprise me he was hurt. There were some games he looked slow, and was playing way deep in net.

A solid backup who can put in 20 games could improve this team by 5 or more wins.
As the teams greatest asset his health NEEDS to be protected better.
Without Henrick this team is not even sniffing playoffs.
there is absolutely no quantifiable way to say this. i mean, its just a random number youre pulling out of the air, and frankly i think its the opposite. Its like baseball, W.A.R. Henrik Lundqvist will have a significantly higher WAR than his backup. if anything playing Henrik less will probably mean fewer wins.

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06-14-2010, 12:14 PM
  #48
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We do not need a veteran backup. Bring in CJ. Let him compete for starter job. Play CJ from Thanksgiving to New Year straight. Sign someone to a two way contract as a precaution. This way Lundqvist will be fresh and sound comes playoff time.

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06-14-2010, 12:36 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by warf1234 View Post
LOL Ok he's a lock right...The guy could be had for 800k or 1 mill max. You think a team won't give a former #1 a shot at that kinda money?
You think Toskala's going to want to stay here as a backup for less than a mil when he can go to Russia, start, and barely take a paycut?

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06-14-2010, 12:37 PM
  #50
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Sign someone to a two way contract as a precaution.
Like who?

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