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Old
06-12-2010, 06:06 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
Had Philly had Halak instead of Leighton, Philly would be Stanley Cup Champions today.
And they never learn

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06-12-2010, 08:20 AM
  #102
Mats NAslund
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I know jeff carter has nice numbers, and I think he will be a consistent 30 goal scorer for years to come. He's a good skater as well... but when it comes down to it, I dont think he has that "it" factor. Dont get me wrong... its always nice to have a 30 goal scorer, but he seems to be talked about around here as the saviour to our centre ice problems, and I dont see it. Sure, he's got size over pleks and he scores more goals, but pleks is a strong pk guy and a better playmaker IMO. Its not a huge upgrade overall, even if Carter is bigger.
Here's what I don't understand, why do you need your second line Centre to play PK. Lapierre, Pyatt ect....those are the guys that should be playing PK. Montreal should give two ***** about Plekanec being good on the PK. No way in hell should Montreal pay Plekanec 5 million because he can play the PK.


If Pekanec wants 5 plus million let put up Gionta Cammalleri type effort come playoff time. Montreal already has a overpaid C able to play the PK (Gomez) but at least showed up for playoffs!

Plekanec's ofence can adequately be replaced by a guy like Brock Trotter or David Desharnais at a fraction of the price. Plekanec 70 points / 5 million or one the Hamilton guys 50points at less then 1 million and add a gritty winger who will pot 25.

BYE BYE Pleaknec.....I love Plekanec but only if he stays at 3.5 and no more!

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06-12-2010, 08:33 AM
  #103
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I'd like for Montreal NOT to resign Plekanec and somehow bring in Staal but it will never happen.
Montreal doesn't have the assets Pittsburgh is looking for.

Pitt wants a puck moving D-man and a winger for the second line.
No way Montreal can afford to trade Markov or Subban for Staal.

Only thing that I can think of is Andrei Kostitsyn Weber and a pick for Staal. Salary wise it's a wash.
Staal makes 4 million and AK makes 3.25 and Weber under a million.

I think AK would score 40 in Pitt playing with Crosby!

Not so sure Pitt makes this deal though, Oh well it was a nice dream!

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06-12-2010, 08:37 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
I'd like for Montreal NOT to resign Plekanec and somehow bring in Staal but it will never happen.
Montreal doesn't have the assets Pittsburgh is looking for.

Pitt wants a puck moving D-man and a winger for the second line.
No way Montreal can afford to trade Markov or Subban for Staal.

Only thing that I can think of is Andrei Kostitsyn Weber and a pick for Staal. Salary wise it's a wash.
Staal makes 4 million and AK makes 3.25 and Weber under a million.

I think AK would score 40 in Pitt playing with Crosby!

Not so sure Pitt makes this deal though, Oh well it was a nice dream!
When it is all said and done, and the summer of dreams is over....I think we may see Pouliot centering the second line.....and seomeone like Frolov replacement him at LW.....

Seeing what is UFA, I dont see a whole of C that Montreal would want....either too pricey (Marleau) or too small.....

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06-12-2010, 09:00 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by cap10bfl View Post
i also think jordan staal is overhyped, but i agree he should produce more with better wingers, just not that much more...
Don't forget Staal is making 4 mil long term where Plekanec is looking for 5+ a year.

I'd rather have Staal as a shut down C who can score and play the PK as well as Plekanec! Plekanec is not worth more the the the $million Staal makes.

Who would have helped Montreal in this last playoff run?

Healthy Staal playing vs Richards or Plekanec?

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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
When it is all said and done, and the summer of dreams is over....I think we may see Pouliot centering the second line.....and seomeone like Frolov replacement him at LW.....

Seeing what is UFA, I dont see a whole of C that Montreal would want....either too pricey (Marleau) or too small.....
Agreed but you have to admit that Jordan Staal at 4 million is better then Plekanec at 5 + million!

I but you that Pittsburgh would not trade Staal one for one for PLekanec, even if he was signed!

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06-12-2010, 09:07 AM
  #106
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From what I can see Staal has rougly 30 seconds of PP per penalty: 326 opp. and 156 minutes.
Not a lot but still some PP TOI.
Given 17% the Pens had, if Staal would be the solution they would have used him by now...

Still Staal did not prove he can score 50 points.
I see him breaking the 60 points mark once in his carreer.
50 points per season carreer is still very good.

You think he has great offense, I have said the reverse for two years now.
Two years later, nothing has changed...

BTW, Staal will be traded this summer. Just watch a team overpay for him.

Even during his junior years he was not a great scorer. Great two way but not great scorer.
I sure hope we're that team!

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06-12-2010, 09:43 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
Agreed but you have to admit that Jordan Staal at 4 million is better then Plekanec at 5 + million!

I but you that Pittsburgh would not trade Staal one for one for PLekanec, even if he was signed!
That may be the case, but 3 things make a big difference...

1-We can get Plekanec for free just by signing him

2-J.Staal would cost a lot in assets

3-Plekanec has proven twice that he can produce at a #1 center level(70 pts) while Staal(ev en though he hasn't gotten as much Pp time and as good linemates) hasn't.

Those are facts, not opinion.

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06-12-2010, 09:51 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
That may be the case, but 3 things make a big difference...

1-We can get Plekanec for free just by signing him

2-J.Staal would cost a lot in assets

3-Plekanec has proven twice that he can produce at a #1 center level(70 pts) while Staal(ev en though he hasn't gotten as much Pp time and as good linemates) hasn't.

Those are facts, not opinion.
I'm not a Plekanec hater, I happen to be a big fan and I agree that he's good in the regular season but has been a no show two years in a row now in the playoffs.

If he stays at 4 million MAX then fine keep him but anything more I'd rather trade assets to get a BIG centre LIKE Staal to replace him on the second line.

It's a moot point anyway because the two teams don't match up well for a trade.

Pitt needs a a guy to replace Gonchar and a scoring winger.

Montreal could offer AK and Weber but it wouldn't be enough to land Staal!

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06-12-2010, 10:00 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
I'm not a Plekanec hater, I happen to be a big fan and I agree that he's good in the regular season but has been a no show two years in a row now in the playoffs.

If he stays at 4 million MAX then fine keep him but anything more I'd rather trade assets to get a BIG centre LIKE Staal to replace him on the second line.

It's a moot point anyway because the two teams don't match up well for a trade.

Pitt needs a a guy to replace Gonchar and a scoring winger.

Montreal could offer AK and Weber but it wouldn't be enough to land Staal!
Why is everybody so obsessed about having big centers? All things being equal I'd take the 6'2" guy over the 5'10" guy, but size is a much bigger factor on the wings, in goal and on defense than at center.

Apart from Toews who is not a big banger, the centers in the cup final were all under 6' or under 200lbs. Phillie had Richards Briere Giroux and Betts who average 5'10" and about 185lbs.

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06-12-2010, 10:45 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
When it is all said and done, and the summer of dreams is over....I think we may see Pouliot centering the second line.....and seomeone like Frolov replacement him at LW.....

Seeing what is UFA, I dont see a whole of C that Montreal would want....either too pricey (Marleau) or too small.....
Yes this is a possible but I'm not sure if he will be successful. I prefer Pouliot on the wing for now but I hope that he would work on FO during practice.

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06-12-2010, 10:51 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Why is everybody so obsessed about having big centers? All things being equal I'd take the 6'2" guy over the 5'10" guy, but size is a much bigger factor on the wings, in goal and on defense than at center.

Apart from Toews who is not a big banger, the centers in the cup final were all under 6' or under 200lbs. Phillie had Richards Briere Giroux and Betts who average 5'10" and about 185lbs.
You're correct it's not all about size....Plekanec while talented has no size or grit. He plays a finesse game and not worth 5 + million per year.

Gionta on the other hand gets in the dirty spots on the ice and that's what separates him from Plekanec. That's why Gionta was effective in all three zones and Plekanec only on the PK!

See where I'm going with this.

Staal is big and gets dirty and will win those battles in front of the net, along the boards and in the corners. He can score dirty goals and do everything Plekanec does!

For the haters on Gomez for 7.3 mil cap hit what are they going to say once Plekanec hits the 5+ range and flops come playoff time again. Like I said if Plekanec would stay at 4M MAX then great but otherwise he's replaceable!

While Plakanec has a high skill level he cannot deliver the goods once the game tightens up.
He just doesn't have it!


Who would you rather have Kesler who just signed at 5mil over 6 years or Plekanec who's looking for that kind of money?


Both put up 70 points 20 goals both are extremely good two way Centreman but come playoff time and I need someone to go up against Richards and HArtnell....


Staal for that matter makes 4 million and would put 60 to 70 points playing Plekanec minutes on the second line in Montreal.

I'll take Kesler or Staal thanks

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06-12-2010, 11:00 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I know jeff carter has nice numbers, and I think he will be a consistent 30 goal scorer for years to come. He's a good skater as well... but when it comes down to it, I dont think he has that "it" factor. Dont get me wrong... its always nice to have a 30 goal scorer, but he seems to be talked about around here as the saviour to our centre ice problems, and I dont see it. Sure, he's got size over pleks and he scores more goals, but pleks is a strong pk guy and a better playmaker IMO. Its not a huge upgrade overall, even if Carter is bigger.
I agree that he's not physical, but he knows how to use his size in front of the net, something that Plekanec will never do. He's also better on faceoffs than Pleky and has as strong a two-way game as Plekanec, so yes he's an upgrade.

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06-12-2010, 11:00 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
You're correct it's not all about size....Plekanec while talented has no size or grit. He plays a finesse game and not worth 5 + million per year.

Gionta on the other hand gets in the dirty spots on the ice and that's what separates him from Plekanec. That's why Gionta was effective in all three zones and Plekanec only on the PK!

See where I'm going with this.

Staal is big and gets dirty and will win those battles in front of the net, along the boards and in the corners. He can score dirty goals and do everything Plekanec does!

For the haters on Gomez for 7.3 mil cap hit what are they going to say once Plekanec hits the 5+ range and flops come playoff time again. Like I said if Plekanec would stay at 4M MAX then great but otherwise he's replaceable!

While Plakanec has a high skill level he cannot deliver the goods once the game tightens up.
He just doesn't have it!


Who would you rather have Kesler who just signed at 5mil over 6 years or Plekanec who's looking for that kind of money?


Both put up 70 points 20 goals both are extremely good two way Centreman but come playoff time and I need someone to go up against Richards and HArtnell....


Staal for that matter makes 4 million and would put 60 to 70 points playing Plekanec minutes on the second line in Montreal.

I'll take Kesler or Staal thanks
Same here......Staal is a pipe dream but possible, it all depends on what the Pens decide this summer.

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06-12-2010, 11:55 AM
  #114
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Same here......Staal is a pipe dream but possible, it all depends on what the Pens decide this summer.
Why would the Penguins even consider it? Every year they let veteran wingers go and then sign others. But they religiously hold on to their young centres.

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06-12-2010, 12:31 PM
  #115
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Why would the Penguins even consider it? Every year they let veteran wingers go and then sign others. But they religiously hold on to their young centres.
Well because RUMOURS say the Penguins are looking to get better line mates for Crosby and the fact they have failed to do so now for three years. If not for Fleury's stellar run in the playoffs Pitt would not have won that CUP.

The lack of the depth this year on the wing really cost the Pens in the playoffs. You know you have issues when Guerrin is your best WING at 40! They almost lost to a battered team in Ottawa and weren't that impressive vs the Habs!

Add to all that it's been said, again only hearsay that Staal wants a top two center role.

So unless one of Malkin or Crosby move to wing Staal doesn't see
the TOI he wants 5 on 5.

Now I'm not saying Pitt moves Staal but his return could potentially be very very good. Something like a top 4 d-man and legit 2nd line scoring winger!

From a Montreal perspective they can offer AK, prospect (weber) and 1st for Staal. I don't see Montreal and Pitt as good trading partners though because I think Staal gets way more then that if he's truely going to be shopped!

Montreal's true trading chip is Halak and Pitt is not in the market for a goalie!

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06-13-2010, 01:56 AM
  #116
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Here's what I don't understand, why do you need your second line Centre to play PK. Lapierre, Pyatt ect....those are the guys that should be playing PK. Montreal should give two ***** about Plekanec being good on the PK. No way in hell should Montreal pay Plekanec 5 million because he can play the PK.


If Pekanec wants 5 plus million let put up Gionta Cammalleri type effort come playoff time. Montreal already has a overpaid C able to play the PK (Gomez) but at least showed up for playoffs!

Plekanec's ofence can adequately be replaced by a guy like Brock Trotter or David Desharnais at a fraction of the price. Plekanec 70 points / 5 million or one the Hamilton guys 50points at less then 1 million and add a gritty winger who will pot 25.

BYE BYE Pleaknec.....I love Plekanec but only if he stays at 3.5 and no more!
There's nothing saying that your 2nd line centre has to kill penalties, but man, its a damn good luxury if he can do it. Trust me when I tell you that the opposing team is uncomfortable when an offensive weapon is out there killing penalties. The coaches think twice about having a forward play the point, and the PP point men think twice about making some high risk passes.

Pleks is a superb PKer because he anticipates the play so well, which causes turnovers, and his speed makes him a serious counterattack threat.

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06-13-2010, 08:54 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
Had Philly had Halak instead of Leighton, Philly would be Stanley Cup Champions today.
So what? That has nothing to do with Carter. There are other players on that squad. Again I don't see Philly trading him unless they're horribly dumb. I know as Habs fans we salivate at the idea of Jeff Carter joining the club. But realistically, the Flyers should not sacrifice him.

I could see something like Leino, Carcillo and Bourdon for Halak. It fills the need of the Habs and doesn't fleece the Flyers.

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There's nothing saying that your 2nd line centre has to kill penalties, but man, its a damn good luxury if he can do it. Trust me when I tell you that the opposing team is uncomfortable when an offensive weapon is out there killing penalties. The coaches think twice about having a forward play the point, and the PP point men think twice about making some high risk passes.

Pleks is a superb PKer because he anticipates the play so well, which causes turnovers, and his speed makes him a serious counterattack threat.
But how many lead to goals? None. He's overrated on the PK.

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06-13-2010, 11:56 AM
  #118
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So what? That has nothing to do with Carter. There are other players on that squad. Again I don't see Philly trading him unless they're horribly dumb. I know as Habs fans we salivate at the idea of Jeff Carter joining the club. But realistically, the Flyers should not sacrifice him.

I could see something like Leino, Carcillo and Bourdon for Halak. It fills the need of the Habs and doesn't fleece the Flyers.
I like Leino but Carcillo and Bourdon......Halak is worth more then just Leino!

Now Montreal gets fleeced!

I'm not saying that Philly has to trade Carter but if they want a REAL number goalie you have to be willing to give something up.

Leino and a first would be a good trade but Philly doesn't have one!

Philly will NEVER win a Stanley cup with Boucher or Leighton....They can go there 10 times ina row and they always finish second until they find a true number one. They don't have a good enough team to allow soft untimely goals by sub par goaltending.

Leighton looked better then he was because he faced a Boston and Montreal team that could find the back of the net. Leighton did not win any games on his own in either series!

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06-13-2010, 12:00 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
I like Leino but Carcillo and Bourdon......Halak is worth more then just Leino!

Now Montreal gets fleeced!

I'm not saying that Philly has to trade Carter but if they want a REAL number goalie you have to be willing to give something up.

Leino and a first would be a good trade but Philly doesn't have one!

Philly will NEVER win a Stanley cup with Boucher or Leighton....They can go there 10 times ina row and they always finish second until they find a true number one. They don't have a good enough team to allow soft untimely goals by sub par goaltending.

Leighton looked better then he was because he faced a Boston and Montreal team that could find the back of the net. Leighton did not win any games on his own in either series!
Halak for Lieno straight up is more than fair.

Leino is a very good player. He is young and affordable and plays a great two way game.

He is going to be 27, coming into his own and can easily be a 2nd line centre. Detroit never wanted to lose him, but had to trade him because of cap issues. Plus Detroit couldn't move him to the higher lines in Detroit because of their depth.

The injuries to Philly allowed Leino to show what he had, and what the Wings knew he had.

A Halak for Leino deal is a good deal for the Habs.

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06-13-2010, 01:26 PM
  #120
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Halak for Lieno straight up is more than fair.

Leino is a very good player. He is young and affordable and plays a great two way game.

He is going to be 27, coming into his own and can easily be a 2nd line centre. Detroit never wanted to lose him, but had to trade him because of cap issues. Plus Detroit couldn't move him to the higher lines in Detroit because of their depth.

The injuries to Philly allowed Leino to show what he had, and what the Wings knew he had.

A Halak for Leino deal is a good deal for the Habs.
It would be a good deal yet the Habs can fetch more than this for Halak. I was suggesting from the Flyers' perspective, they can add a good goalie without killing themselves.

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06-13-2010, 01:31 PM
  #121
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Halak for Lieno straight up is more than fair.


A Halak for Leino deal is a good deal for the Habs.

Leino stats for the 2009-2010 season : 55GP - 6G - 5A - 11Pts


Yeah let's trade Halak for this guy.

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06-13-2010, 03:07 PM
  #122
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I was listening to CKAC, and they said Jeff Carter could be available? Would you trade Jeff Carter for Carey Price? Could be a risky move to Price in the same conference and Carter`s recent injuries.

Personally, I'd be more enclined to move Andre Kostitsyn for Jeff Carter (ironic that both players were drafted round #1 the same draft year..........and the Habs chose ahead of the Flyers) - no doubt Flyers would jump all over this trade proposal in a herat beat.............LOL!



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06-13-2010, 03:27 PM
  #123
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But how many lead to goals? None. He's overrated on the PK.
Playing on the PK is not about scoring goals but about preventing them. Plekanec has been our best PK forward for a few years now, it's not even debatable, and JM said it in his press conference a few times this season.

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06-13-2010, 03:28 PM
  #124
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Halak for Lieno straight up is more than fair.

Leino is a very good player. He is young and affordable and plays a great two way game.

He is going to be 27, coming into his own and can easily be a 2nd line centre. Detroit never wanted to lose him, but had to trade him because of cap issues. Plus Detroit couldn't move him to the higher lines in Detroit because of their depth.

The injuries to Philly allowed Leino to show what he had, and what the Wings knew he had.

A Halak for Leino deal is a good deal for the Habs.
OMFG you guys are killing me... Halak for Leino... ahaha now that's a good one

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06-14-2010, 01:41 AM
  #125
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Playing on the PK is not about scoring goals but about preventing them. Plekanec has been our best PK forward for a few years now, it's not even debatable, and JM said it in his press conference a few times this season.
So what? Are we paying him for the PK? Gomez is good at it too.

I'd rather have a better scorer. One that doesn't mind the physical play too.

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