HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Notices

Do you think the Monarchs should add some quality players to their roster?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-16-2005, 02:13 PM
  #51
King Blazer
Registered User
 
King Blazer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 6,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieMoto
Little Reg noticed that last game. He was asking me why they put Cammy on defense. LOL.
I hope you told him it was because they couldn't find Max Kuznetsov


Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieMoto
BTW - yeah, I know Borzecki is a r-e-a-l long shot, but hey - I guy can dream, can't he?
I was all for keeping Borzecki in Manchester, sending Milam to Reading and keeping Schmidt at forward...We all know how that turned out... It only took them 60-games to wake-up to Milam and even then they brought in Geisler. Yes, they were looking for some help in scoring at the time but they were also getting the crap kicked out of them physically...

King Blazer is offline  
Old
03-16-2005, 04:20 PM
  #52
jt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Orange County
Country: Norway
Posts: 963
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Word
Boudreau made the following comments in his artice for the Union:

http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...?article=52029

The 22 man Clear Day roster for the Monarchs will be set.

On possibe additions for the Monarchs:

Our situation in Manchester is a bit different. We're owned by the Los Angeles Kings, who have proven time and again that they'll make a move to improve this team if it makes sense and if it doesn't sacrifice development.

The Kings will look long and hard before making any move, and any move made will need to make sense long term.
THIS is why I love Dave Taylor's Kings. The #1 thing is development. The #2 this is development. The #3 thing is development.

If getting a guy helps development, they'll get one. If it doesn't, they won't.

Did I already say this is why I love Dave Taylor's Kings?

jt is offline  
Old
03-16-2005, 04:27 PM
  #53
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 30,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt
THIS is why I love Dave Taylor's Kings. The #1 thing is development. The #2 this is development. The #3 thing is development.

If getting a guy helps development, they'll get one. If it doesn't, they won't.

Did I already say this is why I love Dave Taylor's Kings?
Any reasonable and knowledgeable Kings fan has to appreciate what Taylor has done collecting a depth of promising prospects. It sure beats the era of Guy Leveque, Keith Redmond, Brandy Semchuk and Jeff Shevalier. Ah man... those were the days...

Ziggy Stardust is online now  
Old
03-16-2005, 04:33 PM
  #54
jt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Orange County
Country: Norway
Posts: 963
vCash: 500
A while ago on another unnamed website I posted the Kings' roster DT took over and also the Roadrunners' roster along with the other "top" prospects (which is like talking about which one is the "top" turd in a toilet, although even with that you can at least be proud of which one is the top, but I digress.). And it almost made me cry. Partly because it made me remember those woefull days, but partly in happiness because of how far DT has brought this franchise.

Did you see waymoresports.com's (Toronto Star) list of the top 10 players from the 2000 draft? Visnovsky was #9 and Frolov was #2 ahead of Gaborik...Heatley was #1. IMO, that was DT's first real draft. I discount all the previous ones because IMO he was learning on-the-job (in a job nobody else wanted) and ever since 2000 the Kings have done a G-R-E-A-T job in every aspect. Unfortunately, injuries just killed them on the ice.

jt is offline  
Old
03-16-2005, 04:34 PM
  #55
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,229
vCash: 5775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
Any reasonable and knowledgeable Kings fan has to appreciate what Taylor has done collecting a depth of promising prospects. It sure beats the era of Guy Leveque, Keith Redmond, Brandy Semchuk and Jeff Shevalier. Ah man... those were the days...


Back then those weren't the days.



I hear Vladimir Tsyplakov is looking for a job...

GKJ is offline  
Old
03-16-2005, 09:30 PM
  #56
Fat Elvis
Registered User
 
Fat Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Money Pit
Country: United States
Posts: 5,280
vCash: 500
What about signing Petiot to a pto after the end of his season

Fat Elvis is offline  
Old
03-17-2005, 05:39 AM
  #57
Word
Registered User
 
Word's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt
THIS is why I love Dave Taylor's Kings. The #1 thing is development. The #2 this is development. The #3 thing is development.

If getting a guy helps development, they'll get one. If it doesn't, they won't.

Did I already say this is why I love Dave Taylor's Kings?
I would include scouting to that list as well. Both DT and Sam McMaster help turn the Kings around. To bad McMaster had his hands tied by the owners.

Word is offline  
Old
03-17-2005, 07:04 AM
  #58
Albi
Registered User
 
Albi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lavena - Italy
Country: Italy
Posts: 4,617
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Albi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Word
Both DT and Sam McMaster help turn the Kings around. To bad McMaster had his hands tied by the owners.
Sorry Word but...
Are you talking about that Sam McDisaster who traded Gretky for a bags of pucks?
The one who sent Zhitnik to Buffalo for Grant Fuhr?
Or Sydor to Dallas?

Hats off to DT, I agree with you.
But McMaster has been nothing less then a disgrace for our franchise.

Albi is offline  
Old
03-17-2005, 08:51 AM
  #59
King Blazer
Registered User
 
King Blazer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 6,420
vCash: 500
Of the 16-games remaining in the Monarchs regular season, 14 of them are against teams within their division and 12 are against teams that are very much in the hunt for the playoffs.

Opponent games
Hartford - 2 (66-GP, 86-pts)
Bridgeport - 2 (not in AD)
Providence - 3 (66-GP, 72-pts)
Portland - 4 (63-GP, 66-pts)
Lowell - 2 (62-GP, 78-pts)
Springfield - 2 (63-GP, 41-pts) Out of the hunt...
Worcester - 1 (66-GP, 76-pts)

The remining games against Hartford, Providence, Worcester and Portland will likely be physical games.

If history tells us anything, it tells us that injuries happen. Last season the Monarchs went into the playoffs against Worcester with Steve Kelly out with an injury. After the first game, Cammalleri went out with injury. The Monarchs played the next four games minus Cammalleri and Kelly. Kelly returned for game six, but was relatively ineffective...

The Kings philosophy and dedication to development has provided the Monarchs with better than average teams since coming to Manchester. We have seen our fair share of injuries and the effects it has on the clubs both at the NHL level and here in Manchester over the past couple of seasons. I certainly don't contend that the Kings/Monarchs can predict injuries to certain players, nor do I blame them for the situation[s] in LA last season including those involving Allison and Deader. However, if the organization has learned anything from the events of the past couple of seasons, I hope it's that injuries do happen. Given the opponents and the physical play that the organization can expect from them as the Monarchs head down the stretch, they need to remember the lessons from the past and realize that they can never have too many healthy bodies down the stretch. They need to add...

edit: If they can't work a deal for a Dean McAmmond or Zach Parise type player they should look to add a Doug Christiansen (big, physical) type player. There's still a lot of regular season, playoff-push hockey to be played over the next month...


Last edited by King Blazer: 03-17-2005 at 12:34 PM.
King Blazer is offline  
Old
03-17-2005, 10:19 AM
  #60
jt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Orange County
Country: Norway
Posts: 963
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Word
I would include scouting to that list as well. Both DT and Sam McMaster help turn the Kings around. To bad McMaster had his hands tied by the owners.
I'm with you Word. McMaster did a great job in many respects and was really the first Kings GM to start them on the right road. McMaster's big problem was exactly what you said...his hands were tied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albi
Sorry Word but...
Are you talking about that Sam McDisaster who traded Gretky for a bags of pucks?
The one who sent Zhitnik to Buffalo for Grant Fuhr?
Or Sydor to Dallas?

Hats off to DT, I agree with you.
But McMaster has been nothing less then a disgrace for our franchise.
You've gotta look at the circumstances. McMaster did the best that could be done (not the best he could do, honestly I don't think anyone could have done any better) under awful circumstances.

The franchise had no money and owed a dozen FORMER players over $10 mil. They couldn't make payroll several times without Gretzky deferring his paycheck. They didn't even pay their hotel bills. Zhitnik was an alcoholic (which made him horribly inconsistent) who I personally have no problem with them trading...and don't forget he got Boucher in that deal. Sydor was a headcase who only turned his career around (something he himself has admitted) because he played for his juniors coach in Dallas (Hitchcock) and Zmolek was actually a pretty good (and tough) Dma while Churla was an important part of the Norstrom trade. And I don't now why anyone thinks anybody could have done any better on the Gretzky deal. EVERYONE knew the Kings were over a barrell and there really wasn't that much interest in Gretzky at the time, NOTHING like there was for Blake which is why DT got so much for him. Gretzky was old, paid a ton and on the decline that there was little interest in him. Even at that, McMaster got:

Craig Johnson: a high 2nd rounder who was a star in college just two years prior who was in his 1st full pro season when they got him and a highly thought of prospect.
Patrice Tardif: a high 3rd rounder who was also a star in college just two years prior and in his 1st full pro season. He was also a highly thought of prospect.
Roman Vopat: 7th round big guy, nothing special.
5th rounder in 1996: They took Peter Hogan, nothing special.
1st rounder in 1997: They took Matt Zultek, a good pick who didn't work out. But even if you hated the pick you can't blame McMaster since he was gone by then.

So he got a 1st, a 2nd, a 3rd, a 5th and a 7th for a 35 yr old Gretzky who was going to leave whatever team he went to after less than two months. In retrospect, the trade didn't give the Kings much at all, but I think the people who criticize McMaster just aren't looking at the whole picture.

And don't forget McMaster is also the guy who traded Olczyk for Murray...and McSorley + Kurri + Churla for Norstrom + Ferraro + Lappy + Lafayette + a 4th (Sean Blanchard)...and a 1st (Volkov) + a 4th for Khristich and Dafoe. Yes, he also traded Robitaille for Tocchet but he was basically told to do that.

McMaster was the Kings' GM during TWO ownership periods when BOTH owners were convicted of fraud and the team filed bankruptcy. It's funny to me when people blame McMaster for the pathetic state of the Kings. You know, McMaster was asked to make lemonade out of spoiled lemons. The problem was that the lemons were rotten and spoiled to the lemonade was just as bad...I don't think many GM's could have done any better and IMO, the deals I listed above show the guy made some great deals and knew what he was doing...especially when his hands weren't tied.

jt is offline  
Old
03-17-2005, 11:21 PM
  #61
Word
Registered User
 
Word's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albi
Sorry Word but...
Are you talking about that Sam McDisaster who traded Gretky for a bags of pucks?
The one who sent Zhitnik to Buffalo for Grant Fuhr?
Or Sydor to Dallas?

Hats off to DT, I agree with you.
But McMaster has been nothing less then a disgrace for our franchise.
I cant reply any better then what JT said [thanks btw] but I will say this. The disgrace is what Bruce McNall did to the team. Also one of the reasons why the Ducks are even in orange county is because McNall needed money to run the Kings. The $25 million he got kept the Kings afloat for a couple of more months. Those are his words as I recall from an article in the LAT recently.


Last edited by Word: 03-17-2005 at 11:28 PM.
Word is offline  
Old
03-17-2005, 11:37 PM
  #62
Word
Registered User
 
Word's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt
Gretzky was old, paid a ton and on the decline that there was little interest in him. Even at that, McMaster got:

Craig Johnson: a high 2nd rounder who was a star in college just two years prior who was in his 1st full pro season when they got him and a highly thought of prospect.
Patrice Tardif: a high 3rd rounder who was also a star in college just two years prior and in his 1st full pro season. He was also a highly thought of prospect.
Roman Vopat: 7th round big guy, nothing special.
5th rounder in 1996: They took Peter Hogan, nothing special.
1st rounder in 1997: They took Matt Zultek, a good pick who didn't work out. But even if you hated the pick you can't blame McMaster since he was gone by then.

So he got a 1st, a 2nd, a 3rd, a 5th and a 7th for a 35 yr old Gretzky who was going to leave whatever team he went to after less than two months. In retrospect, the trade didn't give the Kings much at all, but I think the people who criticize McMaster just aren't looking at the whole picture.
Also factor in that Gretzky wanted a No 1 defensemen and a No 1 forward to be acquired or he would walk at the end of the year. I for one was suprised that McMaster got the return he did.

One thing tho Roman Vopat was a top prospect with loads of talent [at least from what I read at the time] but he had a ten cent head. Al Arbouer [sp] of the NY Islanders didnt think St. Louis would ever deal him. He thought he would go far.

Word is offline  
Old
03-17-2005, 11:56 PM
  #63
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 30,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Word
Also factor in that Gretzky wanted a No 1 defensemen and a No 1 forward to be acquired or he would walk at the end of the year. I for one was suprised that McMaster got the return he did.

One thing tho Roman Vopat was a top prospect with loads of talent [at least from what I read at the time] but he had a ten cent head. Al Arbouer [sp] of the NY Islanders didnt think St. Louis would ever deal him. He thought he would go far.
I remember the two names that were rumored to be coming to Los Angeles, per Gretzky's request. The defenseman would have been Phil Housley and the forward would have been Brett Hull, who was not getting along at all with Mike Keenan.

And I recall Vopat being called the "gem" of that trade. I don't know what went wrong with him, must have been that sucker punch that knocked his lights out, courtesy of Dody Wood (right as soon as the puck dropped when Wood and Vopat were facing off). Vopat had a mean streak in him... other than that, he didn't have much going for him.

Ziggy Stardust is online now  
Old
03-18-2005, 12:53 AM
  #64
Word
Registered User
 
Word's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Blazer
In the print version of today's Union Leader, Gilmore indicated that no L.A. Kings will be signed for Manchester. My assumption is that Gilmore is including the qualified RFA's (Kelly, Muir, Zizka)...

I agree that at this point, Barney should probably be looking toward next season...

Both Gilmore and Hubie stated that NJ (Parise & McAmmond) were not likely to deal...

Provencher threw out Utah's Fredrik Sjostrom & Jeff Taffe as possibilities, as well as, Ryan Craig from Springfield...

Basically the usual rhetoric about looking for a good fit, development of Kings players is paramount, that sort of stuff...

Gilmore talked about Corvo signing with Chicago and basically said he's not happy. Corvo has been in the Kings system for his entire pro career and neither Corvo nor Chicago picked up the phone to discuss it with the Kings...Boo friggin Hoo...

The Monarchs have been using Jeff Miles at center. The lines have been rearranged the last few games in Clarkes absence.

Cammalleri is centering Giuliano and Kostopoulos
Ryan is between Brown and Smyth
Miles is the pivot with Kinasawich and Schmidt
Steckel with Parros and Welch

I spoke with Hogeboom on Sunday in Lowell. He's about 2-weeks away...I don't know the time table for Clarke, Flinn or Kanko...
http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...?article=52143

No deals for Monarchs before playoff roster deadline

They were looking at forwards but didnt see anyone worth acquiring.

Word is offline  
Old
03-18-2005, 12:55 AM
  #65
Word
Registered User
 
Word's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
I remember the two names that were rumored to be coming to Los Angeles, per Gretzky's request. The defenseman would have been Phil Housley and the forward would have been Brett Hull, who was not getting along at all with Mike Keenan.

And I recall Vopat being called the "gem" of that trade. I don't know what went wrong with him, must have been that sucker punch that knocked his lights out, courtesy of Dody Wood (right as soon as the puck dropped when Wood and Vopat were facing off). Vopat had a mean streak in him... other than that, he didn't have much going for him.
Vopat was a headcase. Also something happened in Phoenix of the IHL that got him kicked off the Kings.

Word is offline  
Old
03-18-2005, 09:00 AM
  #66
King Blazer
Registered User
 
King Blazer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 6,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Word
http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...?article=52143

No deals for Monarchs before playoff roster deadline

They were looking at forwards but didnt see anyone worth acquiring.
It's amazing given the current state of hockey, there wasn't a single player worth acquiring...

King Blazer is offline  
Old
03-18-2005, 09:01 AM
  #67
jt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Orange County
Country: Norway
Posts: 963
vCash: 500
Yeah, I remember Vopat getting talked up but I always thought that was hype. The kid was a 7th rounder (#172) just 18 months before the trade. And he wasn't doing anything special in any of the teams/leagues he played in prior to the trade.

I just never bought into the Vopat hype and always thought it was just because he was fairly big (6'3", 220).

jt is offline  
Old
03-18-2005, 04:50 PM
  #68
Albi
Registered User
 
Albi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lavena - Italy
Country: Italy
Posts: 4,617
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Albi
Thanx jt for your explanations.
I appreciate.

Albi is offline  
Old
03-18-2005, 06:03 PM
  #69
jt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Orange County
Country: Norway
Posts: 963
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albi
Thanx jt for your explanations.
I appreciate.
I try. I don't think McMaster was a genius, but the guy REALLY knew his stuff when it came to kids. IMO, EVERY SINGLE bad trade he made was one where his hand was forced. When it came to Gretzky, nobody wanted the guy for just two months. Well, they wanted him but they wouldn't give much. It was really a pretty bad market for him. Hell, Philly gave up a TON for Oates but the Kings barely got that much for Gretzky. Why? Because everyone knew the Kings were in a corner and Gretzky just wasn't a hot commodity that year. I also disagree with all the people who think the Zhitnik and Sydor trades were bad. Sydor DESPERATELY needed a change of scenery. I read an interview he gave about 4 yrs ago and he said that he was about ready to quit hockey before they traded him. Not because of anything the Kings did but because he just didn't think he had it in him to compete. He was a converted forward (because he wasn't a very good forward) and he wasn't learning how to play D very well. He didn't have the skills to be a Housley or Ozolinsh so he was just going to leave the game. When Hitchcock (his juniors coach) heard about it, the Stars and Kings talked and made a deal. As for Zhitnik, I think he is BY FAR the most overrated ex-King in the history of hockey. For a couple yrs there, the Sabres coaches and fans wanted to tar and feather him he was so bad/inconsistent. He is an "ok" Dman but on a good team (even the current Kings with Norstrom, Visnovsky & Miller) he would be a #4 Dman.

I think McMaster took a job that there was NO way he could succeed in. Why? Because he was a personal friend of Wayne Gretzky's. I don't know if you've heard the stories but I've heard ALOT of them and there was NOBODY who wanted that job because of the horrible financial state the Kings were in. Another example is Nick Beverly. People criticize him for trading Sandstrom + McEachern for McSorley + Paek. But what alot of people don't remember (or know) is that Sandstrom (who would be a 29 yr old RFA that summer) said he was going to return to Sweden if they didn't move him...and McEachern was just miserable outside the east coast. There's just SO much stuff that goes on that doesn't come out until years after that it's pretty hard to know when it's "fair" to criticize alot of the time.

jt is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.