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MLD 2010 DRAFT Part I

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Old
06-13-2010, 08:12 PM
  #26
VanIslander
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(1920s NHL players like Billy Coutu, who started his hockey career in the NHA in 1916, qualifies as a 1916-or earlier pick.)

For help researching the earliest era click the league name on the link below (in the blue "Emergence of the NHL box"):

AHAC (1886–1898)
CAHL (1898–1905)
WPHL (1900–1910)
FAHL (1904–1909)
IPHL (1904–1907)
ECAHA (1906–1909)
TPHL (1906–1911)
OPHL (1908–1911)
CHA (1909–1910)
NHA (1909–1917)
PCHA (1912–1924)
NHL (1917–present)
WCHL (1921–1926)

(It's hardest to evaluate players during the first decade of the 20th century, 1900-1909, because there are so many leagues. Be careful.)

link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...ey_Association

And look at some undrafted earliest era Hockey Hall of Fame inductees:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_Hall_of_Fame

And by all means mine the resources here on the ATD subforum! Use the "search this forum" function to find discussion and stats on so many guys. Really, this helps. Of course, take the judgements of other posters with a grain of salt, but arguments and information from previous MLDs are helpful and do provide leads in one's research. I am the last one who likes navel gazing as I think past mistakes are just compounded by copying what picks have been made before, but some good reasoning and agreement has been reached on the value and accomplishments of past guys on this subforum, good quotes and anecdotal evidence, newspaper clippings cited, etcetera.

And above all, google is your friend.
http://www.google.ca/search?q=stanle...ed=0CG0QyQEoAg (click on the timeline for dates and links to help one SURF around plenty of hockey history sites with info from waaay back; there are plenty of newspaper clippings and book excerpts online if one just rides the wave and surfs to them - learn to enjoy the hunting process!)


Last edited by VanIslander: 06-13-2010 at 08:38 PM.
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06-14-2010, 11:33 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
We'll select most likely Monday night...
I don't think the opening of a MLD has ever been so anticipated!


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06-14-2010, 11:42 AM
  #28
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post

And by all means mine the resources here on the ATD subforum! Use the "search this forum" function to find discussion and stats on so many guys. Really, this helps. Of course, take the judgements of other posters with a grain of salt, but arguments and information from previous MLDs are helpful and do provide leads in one's research. I am the last one who likes navel gazing as I think past mistakes are just compounded by copying what picks have been made before, but some good reasoning and agreement has been reached on the value and accomplishments of past guys on this subforum, good quotes and anecdotal evidence, newspaper clippings cited, etcetera.
Just thought I would quote this part to state my 100% agreement. Although, I do plan on rocking the boat with a couple of off the wall picks.

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06-14-2010, 04:25 PM
  #29
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Greetings gentleman, we (me and Chigurh) have reached an agreement on the first pick of the MLD 2010.



With the 1st overall selection, the Baltimore Skipjacks are pleased to select, goaltender, Riley Hern



Never easy having the first round pick when there is so much to choose from, but Hern is the ideal goaltender to build a team around. His dominance in the post-season in the first decade of the 20th century.

And the party has begun!

Next manager(s) notified!

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06-14-2010, 04:33 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Greetings gentleman, we (me and Chigurh) have reached an agreement on the first pick of the MLD 2010.



With the 1st overall selection, the Baltimore Skipjacks are pleased to select, goaltender, Riley Hern



Never easy having the first round pick when there is so much to choose from, but Hern is the ideal goaltender to build a team around. His dominance in the post-season in the first decade of the 20th century.

And the party has begun!

Next manager(s) notified!
Good pick. There's definitely a case that he was the best goaltender available. And perhaps more importantly, he's one of the few pre-1916 players that we know deserves a big role in this.

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06-14-2010, 05:53 PM
  #31
seventieslord
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Hern is a stellar pick.

I admit I haven't even done a fine-toothed review of who is available yet, but I recall in ATD2010 being in disbelief that he wasn't selected after the sell job I did in ATD12. Four goalies deserved a demotion when going from 32 teams to 30... Hern was not one of them. I doubt I'll find a goalie I consider better.

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06-14-2010, 07:13 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Hern is a stellar pick.

I admit I haven't even done a fine-toothed review of who is available yet, but I recall in ATD2010 being in disbelief that he wasn't selected after the sell job I did in ATD12. Four goalies deserved a demotion when going from 32 teams to 30... Hern was not one of them. I doubt I'll find a goalie I consider better.
Agreed. And I haven't even prepared one bit for this. Might as well make it fun by winging the picks.

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06-14-2010, 08:11 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Agreed. And I haven't even prepared one bit for this. Might as well make it fun by winging the picks.
that's what i'm doing...

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06-14-2010, 08:54 PM
  #34
VanIslander
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The Eagles draft Kent Nilsson.



WHA Championship 1977, 1978
Sweden Canada Cup MVP: 1984 (11 points in 8 tourney games)
Stanley Cup Champion 1987 (19 points in 21 playoff games)
World Championships All-Star First Team: 1985, 1989, 1990
Inducted into the IIHF Hall of Fame 2006

Goals

1977-78 WHA 42 (6)
1978-79 WHA 39 (8)
1980-81 NHL 49 (9)

Assists

1977-78 WHA 65 (6)
1978-79 WHA 68 (2)
1980-81 NHL 82 (2)
1984-85 NHL 62 (10)

Points

1977-78 WHA 107 (8)
1978-79 WHA 107 (4)
1980-81 NHL 131 (3)
1982-83 NHL 104 (9)

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06-15-2010, 10:58 AM
  #35
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The MLD 2010 officially begins NOW!


3. Leafs Forever & Dreakmur - Toronto Marlies - ON THE CLOCK (PMs sent)

4. JFA87-66-99 - Pittsburgh Bankers
5. jareklajkosz & TheDevilMadeMe - Brooklyn Americans
6. chaosrevolver - Belleville Bulls
7. MadArcand & tony d - Carolina Hurricanes

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06-15-2010, 11:02 AM
  #36
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HEYYYOOOOO Let the games Begin!!!!! Very nice pick with Hern he was on the Huskies radar.

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06-15-2010, 01:56 PM
  #37
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Clock almost up...

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06-15-2010, 02:18 PM
  #38
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Well, I suppose I'll have to take the premier playmaker in the draft.

This is a man we all know, but flies under the radar so often. This despite placing 3rd in assists on 3 occasions, and 6th another time, an astounding playmaking resume at this stage of the draft. He is not particularly multi-dimensionsal, but his playmaking may well be the best available.

I am proud to select..





Marc Savard!

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06-15-2010, 02:21 PM
  #39
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JFA PMed.

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06-15-2010, 04:13 PM
  #40
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Savard has quietly put together a very strong assists-based resume. Not sure if he's "top-3 picks in the MLD"-worthy, but he did deserve more respect than he's gotten here in the past.

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06-15-2010, 05:09 PM
  #41
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Savard is a good pick. We considered him for 1st line center duty, though didn't expect him to be gone so soon.

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06-15-2010, 06:51 PM
  #42
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I guess JFA is technically skipped. Even though it's just the MLD, I think he should get some leeway since it's the first round. So I sent the Brooklyn Americans' list to chaosrevolver. No need to skip JFA quite yet if the GM picking after us isn't around.

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06-15-2010, 06:58 PM
  #43
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I'm gonna do some quick research and then make the picks. I have an exam tomorrow, so I'm trying to avoid the internet

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06-15-2010, 07:21 PM
  #44
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Savard is playoff-limited without individual or team accomplishments in any league or international setting. History won't totally forget him but close to it, with him being no more than a bit stat: his three top-3 assist seasons - he sure as hell has a weaker resume in so many ways than several undrafted players. It must be a homer pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I guess JFA is technically skipped. Even though it's just the MLD, I think he should get some leeway since it's the first round. So I sent the Brooklyn Americans' list to chaosrevolver. No need to skip JFA quite yet if the GM picking after us isn't around.
It's the MLD not ATD. Judgements vary so much, even in round 1, that getting skipped isn't very significant.


Last edited by VanIslander: 06-15-2010 at 07:28 PM.
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06-15-2010, 07:28 PM
  #45
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chaos is here anyway, so I guess I'll announce our pick. Certainly one of the most significant players in history left, though there are concerns about his level of competition, which I am going to try to put into perspective.

The Brooklyn Americans select the captain and best player of the best national team in the world in the 1940s:

Vladimir Zabrodsky, C

The Best Czech Hockey player of the Century:
voted by 50 experts, played-out pros, coaches and refs.

1. DOMINIK HAŠEK 472
2. JAROMÍR JÁGR 357
3. VLADIMÍR ZÁBRODSKÝ 240
4. VLADIMÍR MARTINEC 235
5. IVAN HLINKA 181
6. XXX 160
7. JAN SUCHÝ 154
8. JIŘÍ HOLÍK 136
9. XXX 121
10. VÁCLAV NEDOMANSKÝ 98
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=1...&postcount=208

Zabrodsky is basically the Bobrov of Czechoslovakia. In the late 1940s, Czechoslovakia was looking to become Canada’s main rival in the world of hockey, and Zabrodsky was by far their best player. Czechoslovakia won the 1947 and 49 World Championships and got the silver medal in the 1948 Olympics, after tying Canada’s record and losing out narrowly on goal differential. Zabrodsky was still the leading scorer at the 1948 Olympics, however.

Briefly, here are events that help explain why the USSR and not Czechoslovakia started to emerge as Canada’s principal rival in the 1950s:

1. Zabrodsky’s club team traveled to the USSR in 1948 to help the Soviets develop their hockey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatestHockeyLegends.com
Zábrodský will also go down to history as one of the players who were on the first ever hockey team that visited Russia in 1948. His LTC Praha team played three games against the Russians and helped them develop their hockey.
2. After the Czechs helped to develop Soviet hockey, the Soviets set about undermining the Czech team. First was a mysterious plane crash over the USSR in 1948, then most of the national team (minus Zabrodsky) was arrested for treason in 1950 by the puppet government in Czechoslovakia.
Quote:
November 18, 1948 team Czechoslovakia had a grievous stroke, in a plane crash killed the goalie XXX, full-back XXX., XXX and XXX, forwards XXX and XXX. XXX left Czechoslovakia and emigrated to the UK (along with him XXX). Nevertheless, Czechoslovakian team once again became the world champion of 1949 in Stockholm, the team won Canada (3:2). From this moment story of Czechoslovakian team was suspended. Before the World Cup of 1950, almost all national team players were charged with treason, attempted to emigrate and sentenced to various terms of imprisonment or disqualified.
http://www.nphu.com/2009/07/07/history-of-hockey/

Quote:
Czechoslovakia was the best national team in the world in the years following World War II. The team won the 1947 and 1949 World Championships and lost the 1948 Olympic gold to Canada only on goal differential.

But it was their own people, driven by conspiracy theories in Stalinist Czechoslovakia, who prevented this great team from defending its title at the 1950 World Championship in London, England. Just before the national squad was about to board the plane for Great Britain on March 11, 1950, the players were handcuffed by the national state security police (KNB, Czechoslovakian forerunner to the KGB) and taken to jail.

Seven months later, on October 7, the players appeared in court accused of attempting to defect and they were charged with treason.
Czechoslovakian team jailed for treason – entire generation lostl

Here is information on Zabrodsky himself:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatestHockeyLegends.com
Vladimir Zábrodský was a Czechoslovakian giant who almost single-handedly put hockey on the map in what is now the Czech and Slovakian Republic.
...
His individual play single-handedly won his team many games
. He led the national team to the 1947 and 1949 World Championships. He also participated in the 1948,54,55 and 56 World Championships as well as two Olympic tournaments (1948 and 56). In the 1948 Olympic games in St. Moritz Switzerland, he led the tournament in scoring and his team to a 6-0-1 record, good enough for the silver medal.

Zábrodský was the Czech national team.
He represented the Czechs 93 times and scored an incredible 158 goals, including 29 goals in 7 World Championship games in 1947 and 21 in 8 Olympic games in 1948 !

In Czech league play this crafty center scored 306 goals in 237 games spanning 16 seasons. He led the league in scoring 5 times - 1947 (17 goals), 1949 (19), 1954 (30), 1957 (33) and in 1959 (23). He also won the league championship 6 times - 1946-49 (LTC Praha) and 1953 and 19 54 (Spartak CKD Sokolovo).

12 of Zábrodský's teammates were jailed for espionage and treason in 1950. Their sentences ranged from 8 months to 15 years. Zábrodský somehow wasn't jailed and many people to this day think that he was a "rat", who snitched on his teammates in order to escape any punishment for himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
Zábrodský was center.He was a bit selfish on the ice, but he had to be to score so many goals.
He scored 158 goals in 93 games for the National team.
He played 18 seasons in Czechoslovakian league (230 games) and scored 306 goals.
6 times World Champion.
He played for LTC Prague, Spartak CKD Sokolovo and Bohemians CKD Prague.
5 times best goalscorer of the Czechoslovakian league.
He was called "Boss" some of his teammates call still call him Boss.
He was the leader of World Champions 1947 and 1949.
Phenomenal goalscorer. His backhand shoot is legendary.
He remarkably affected whole team in both National and Club competition. He was the cornerstone of those teams.
Conclusion:
I think that there is a lot of evidence that Czech hockey in the late 40s was at the same level as Soviet hockey through much of the 1950s. We give Soviet standouts from the 1950s the benefit of the doubt; we should do the same for Zabrodsky, who I think is likely very comparable to Bobrov in terms of talent, in other words an elite scorer at the MLD level. If jarek has time, he can use his magical SIHR membership to show just how dominant Zabrodsky was statistically, but the quotes I provided above are a good start.

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06-15-2010, 07:30 PM
  #46
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With our first pick, the Belleville Bulls will select:

C: Josef Malecek

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seventieslord
Malecek's dominance in Czechoslovakia is unprecedented in all of hockey. Lower level of competition, yes, but as good as Bobrov was versus his fellow Russians, Malecek was better versus his Czechs. I believe that, like Bobrov, if you consider Czech hockey to be a separate entity from the rest of the world, he is the greatest player his country has produced. I'm not under the illusion that he was, and like Bobrov, I prefer to make educated guesses about just how good he was compared to the top NHL players across the pond at the time, simply because we know that's where the best hockey was going on, rather than look at the Czech league in its own bubble. If we did that, I could assume that Malecek was better than Gretzky. I'm satisfied enough to suggest he was as good as many of the top forwards in the NHL during his prime.

So, I'm going to briefly share what I learned about Malecek through "Kings Of the Ice", "The International Ice Hockey Encyclopedia", as well as his bio on sihrhockey.org, where I am a member.
Quote:
When hockey experts in the Czech Republic set about chosing the best players of the last century, Josef Malecek was the only one from the prewar era to make the top 10...Josef was an excellent tennis player and represented his country in the Davis Cup. He also excelled in soccer, field hockey (for a long time he was the best player on the national team), water polo, golf, table tennis, chess, billiards, cycling, and athletics. For a long time he even held the Czech record in the 400m hurdles. But it was hockey that enchanted him the most...In 1922 Malecek went to the European Championship for the first time, as a replacement. Ten years would pass before he missed a tournament, and then only due to injury. before WW2, he played in three winter Olympics and attended every world or continental championship...As one of Czechoslovakia's brightest stars, he was often compared in the mid 1930's to the best forwards in the NHL. In Europe, only the brilliant swiss player **** ******** could compare with him...He layed at center for AC Sparta until 1927, and then until 1943 for LTC Prague, where he was a defenseman. Later he put in an excellent performance as a player-coach for OAP Bratislava, the 1944 Champions, where he stayed until his exile. He had his whims, but could also respect authority. Malecek gained recognition as a true leader while with LTC Prague...Malecek was a strong-willed man who made a living out of sports.
Malecek played at a high level until he was 45 and was the first player in organized hockey to score 1000 goals. He's listed as 5'9", 160 - not bad for someone born in 1903.
Quote:
” It was the ultimate excellence in a hockey rink. He dazzled the crowd in a way so that even the most rabid Hungarian had to admit that he was the King of the tournament. His amazing movement and puck skills in combination with his incredible way to constantly set up his teammates was a thing of beauty.”
Some of the following statistics are incomplete, this is only what is known. There is likely more not known.

Czech League 1921-1948: 344-987-45-1032 -12-time leading scorer, 12 league championships
Exhibition games in Europe: 43-73-6-79
National Team: 71-117-7-114
Spengler Cup: 20-36-11-47-2 - 2-time leading scorer, 2 championships
European Championships: 25-28-3-31 - 2-time leading scorer, 3 Gold, 1 Silver, 1 Bronze
World Championships: 51-50-15-65-8 - 3-time leading scorer, 3 Bronze
Olympic Games: 13-13-5-18 - Earned points on 18 of his team's 33 goals over three Olympics.

Totals, for fun:
567-1304-92-1396-10

** Credit to SeventiesLord and Nalyd for the Bio

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06-15-2010, 07:31 PM
  #47
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Ok guys I just got home from work. This is a very tough decision but the Pittsburgh Bankers select a player from hockey's first dawn Goaltender Tom Paton.

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06-15-2010, 07:33 PM
  #48
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I messaged tonyd, but madarcand's inbox is full..so I couldn't get it to him.

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06-15-2010, 07:34 PM
  #49
VanIslander
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Zabrodsky is an interesting pick. If it wasn't for the question mark posed by him not playing against the best of his era he'd be a ATD regular for sure!

Quote:
We give Soviet standouts from the 1950s the benefit of the doubt; we should do the same for Zabrodsky, who I think is likely very comparable to Bobrov in terms of talent
Indeed. That's one reason why Bobrov should be seen as a marginal ATD regular, clear ATD extra pick. He may or may not be able to handle the workload against the best of his era. Same goes for Malecek.

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06-15-2010, 07:38 PM
  #50
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Nice, the two early Czech players go back to back.

I like Zabrodsky a bit better than Malecek for 2 simple reasons:

1) The Czechs themselves seem to consider him better. Malecek was the "9. XXX 121" from the list where Zabrodsky is third. I really don't think there much "modern bias" when you are talking about a player who is from the 1930s vs. the 1940s.

2) It's much easier to figure out a comparable for the level of competition Zabrodsky faced. I'd guess that his competition was probably on the same level as the Soviets faced in the mid-late 50s; this is assuming it took the Soviets several years to reach the level that the Czechs had been at in the late 40s. I have no idea how to even start determining Malecek's level of competitions.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 06-15-2010 at 07:43 PM.
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