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How would you react if Boucher wins his first Stanley Cup with the Bolts this season?

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Old
06-14-2010, 08:29 PM
  #26
le_sean
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
No, but on pure hockey and good-of-the-franchise grounds, he should have.

Unfortunately circumstances being what they are, plus he and Gauthier being tight, they're stuck with him.
Yes because you know so much more than actual hockey personnel who receive large salaries making the decisions that they make.

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06-14-2010, 08:37 PM
  #27
M.C.G. 31
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My jaw would literally be on the floor.

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Old
06-14-2010, 08:44 PM
  #28
MathMan
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Yes because you know so much more than actual hockey personnel who receive large salaries making the decisions that they make.
I know enough to recognize bad coaching when I see it. You don't need to be a plumber to diagnose a leaking pipe either.

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06-14-2010, 08:54 PM
  #29
le_sean
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I know enough to recognize bad coaching when I see it. You don't need to be a plumber to diagnose a leaking pipe either.
Yet they were the 2nd last team eliminated in the playoffs and Jacques Martin is 8th in career coaching wins despite having only coached for 14 seasons.

But of course you know more than him.

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06-14-2010, 08:59 PM
  #30
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How would you react if the Canadiens had replaced Martin with Boucher, then wound up 13th in the conference? How would you react if Martin was hired in Tampa and he led the Lightning to the Stanley Cup?

Even if Tampa were to win the Cup with Boucher, who is to say that he would have the same, or even similar, results in Montreal with different players.

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06-14-2010, 09:01 PM
  #31
MathMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Yet they were the 2nd last team eliminated in the playoffs
We've been over this before, but suffice it to say that wasn't thanks to Martin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Jacques Martin is 8th in career coaching wins despite having only coached for 14 seasons.
14 seasons is rather a lot; as a result he's up there in losses, too. But I'm not really interested in what he's done in the past, just what he does for the Habs, and it really looks like the game's passed him by.

It happens. Nobody can be good forever.

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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
But of course you know more than him.
I know enough to know he's doing a lousy job. I'm not claiming I could do better. But I'd say most NHL coaches could. I'm quite sure Boucher could.

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06-14-2010, 09:12 PM
  #32
le_sean
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
14 seasons is rather a lot; as a result he's up there in losses, too. But I'm not really interested in what he's done in the past, just what he does for the Habs, and it really looks like the game's passed him by.
Uhhh what? 546 wins in 14 seasons is better than everyone else around him. 8th in wins and not even Top 10 in losses.

Wilson is 7th with 571 wins in 16 seasons, Murray 6th with 620 wins in 18 seasons, Keenan 5th with 672 wins in 25 seasons.

You are really grasping at straws here. You have nothing but your intuition to claim he is a poor coach. Yet when I give you examples it's always "doesn't matter, I can just see he is a bad coach, stats mean nothing".

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Old
06-14-2010, 09:20 PM
  #33
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I know enough to know he's doing a lousy job. I'm not claiming I could do better. But I'd say most NHL coaches could. I'm quite sure Boucher could.
I never thought I'd say this to you, but you really are acting like a typical HF bias fan.

Your failure to credit Martin for ANYTHING is really embarrassing.

You hate him, fine, you're allowed to.
Leave it at that and stop arguing on the matter though because you really are extremely biased.

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06-14-2010, 09:36 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I'm not embarassed, seeing as I've credited Martin for his personnel management and matching up in the past (it's certainly light years ahead of Carbonneau's) and if you look at my posting history you can confirm this.
I don't really care about that.
You've been on his case throughout the season and really, I haven't read you credit him for one thing which is ridiculous.

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06-14-2010, 09:38 PM
  #35
MathMan
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You've been on his case throughout the season and really, I haven't read you credit him for one thing which is ridiculous.
But I did credit him for something. Even if you don't care about it. I'm just calling it like I see it.

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Old
06-14-2010, 09:46 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post


C'mon, people...we've got bigger fish to fry.
david fischer ?

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Old
06-14-2010, 09:58 PM
  #37
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I'd be unhappy that the Canadiens didn't win the Cup but happy for him, Lecavalier and St-Louis.

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Old
06-14-2010, 10:09 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I'm suitably impressed. At which point do we see this experience actually benefit the Habs on the ice?



I've made my case with much data and plenty of explanations in the original Boucher-to-Tampa thread. Probably too much, actually. Because that thread was extremely verbose and annoyed a fair number of people, I'm trying to not get into detailed arguments again here.

The responses I've gotten back often involved claiming that he was responsible for things that didn't actually happen (like the Habs "forcing shots to the outside" or "limiting quality scoring chances"). Made arguing pretty useless in hindsight. The ECF finish was fun, but it's blinding a lot of people.

Now his past record is being brought up as proof that he is good. Suffice to say that Martin's pre-lockout track record is of little relevance compared to the way he's actually coaching the Habs, and his reputation as a successful coach this year is largely built on a goalie standing on his head for two series, despite Martin employing the same ineffective system in the playoffs that he used in the regular season. He may have been a good coach in the past, but that doesn't necessarily imply he's good now, and frankly, his tactics are obsolete.
Easy to say that when ready the game summary and stats instead of watching the game.

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06-14-2010, 10:14 PM
  #39
MathMan
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Easy to say that when ready the game summary and stats instead of watching the game.
I looked at the shot chart to figure that out because during the game I was too busy holding my breath hoping Halak would keep making those mind-blowing saves.

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Old
06-14-2010, 10:43 PM
  #40
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david fischer ?
No, but maybe working on a deal to get your hometown/avatar on our team. NOW THAT is a difference maker .

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06-14-2010, 11:39 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Yet they were the 2nd last team eliminated in the playoffs and Jacques Martin is 8th in career coaching wins despite having only coached for 14 seasons.
That argument is wearing a little thin

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Old
06-15-2010, 12:03 AM
  #42
le_sean
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That argument is wearing a little thin
So is the incredibly subjective argument that Martin's success throughout his entire career has nothing to do with him because of what an internet poster deduces by simply watching the game.

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Old
06-15-2010, 07:30 PM
  #43
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So let's see. How would I react if Boucher won a cup with TB. Pretty much the same way I reacted when TB won the cup the first time. Or the same way I reacted when Michel THerrien brought Pittsburgh to the finals and got fired the next year. With complete apathy. This isn't just the job of one person.

Anyways, this is two different things Boucher is going to attempt. Coaching juniors and coaching AHL are different. But coaching NHL vs AHL are also very different. You don't motivate millionaire veterans the same way you motivate guys you spend 16 hours on a bus the same way.

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Old
06-15-2010, 07:34 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by CHfan4ever View Post
Man i would be piss off as a Habs fan, but really happy because hes a great guy with great a.i. .

I would be piss so bad about the Habs organisation , who screw this up big time. Was it Gauthier decision to let him walk without trying to keep him? I think its the decision of the president on that one or whoever is on top of him who is able to give Boucher an offer. Nobody budge a finger, and i dont understand why. If it was Gauthier décision, well he was affraid to lose his job, knowing he can be replace by Martin who got replace by Boucher.

M.Molson, you miss the boat on that one big time. You were blinded by that amazing playoff run and tough the men in place are the one who will put us on the right track, and your wrong! Boucher IS a better coach than Martin , and he will prove it big time this season.

My two cents...

and yours?
I would be very happy for him..

What can Gauthier have done? tie him up with chains?

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Old
06-15-2010, 07:39 PM
  #45
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Murder/Suicide. But it won't happen, be reality please.

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Old
06-15-2010, 08:40 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by bjac View Post
I understand that this is only a hypothetical question, but the amount of over-hyping that has suddenly appeared over Boucher is starting to become rediculous. The guy might be a good coach, but the reality is that he hasn't coached a single game in the NHL. Now were talking about the guy winning a Stanley Cup in his first year with a non playoff team (albeit a team that has a ton of potential)? He's good, but isn't the coaching prodigy that half the fanbase thinks.
Boucher could coach three teams at the same time to 100 point seasons... maybe even four teams

Yer just a non-believer

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:22 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Cape Breton Oilers View Post
Murder/Suicide. But it won't happen, be reality please.
Lol....seriously i think the same way eh

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:33 PM
  #48
Poulet Kostopoulos
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Originally Posted by CTHabsfan View Post
How would you react if the Canadiens had replaced Martin with Boucher, then wound up 13th in the conference? How would you react if Martin was hired in Tampa and he led the Lightning to the Stanley Cup?

Even if Tampa were to win the Cup with Boucher, who is to say that he would have the same, or even similar, results in Montreal with different players.
You're being off-topic for actually making sense.

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:58 PM
  #49
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Frankly, I'll be disappointed if Boucher doesn't win the Cup with the Bolts this season.

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Old
06-16-2010, 02:38 AM
  #50
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You don't fire a coach immediately after the team reaches the ECF. Especially when he outcoached two teams, one of which was last season's Stanley Cup winner. If you do, you seriously lower the value of any contract you offer. Boucher himself wouldn't feel safe coaching in Montreal : what if he doesn't have a perfect season and another up and coming coach is in Hamilton.

By firing Martin the Habs would have acted like a joke of a franchise. Kind of like pre-Yzerman Tampa.

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