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Old
06-20-2010, 10:06 AM
  #26
RMcDonagh
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Originally Posted by Cherepanisimov View Post
An inconsistent 35 year old, injury prone, 3rd liner? Did they really think they could get McDonagh?
Injury prone and inconsistent maybe, but I find it hard to believe you label the guy as a 3rd liner. Believe me, I'm no Jason Arnott, Nashville or even a veteran fan, but Arnott had scored 27 or more goals in the past 4 seasons prior to this one. He tailed off a bit in 2010, but still, as you're saying, he's not worth McDonagh. From my standpoint, he's not worth much.

He's 35 years old. The Devils can take all their old stars back, be a great regular season team, and then fatso will hit Dunkin Donuts before the first playoff series and bloat himself out of another one.

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06-20-2010, 11:15 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Injury prone and inconsistent maybe, but I find it hard to believe you label the guy as a 3rd liner. Believe me, I'm no Jason Arnott, Nashville or even a veteran fan, but Arnott had scored 27 or more goals in the past 4 seasons prior to this one. He tailed off a bit in 2010, but still, as you're saying, he's not worth McDonagh. From my standpoint, he's not worth much.

He's 35 years old. The Devils can take all their old stars back, be a great regular season team, and then fatso will hit Dunkin Donuts before the first playoff series and bloat himself out of another one.
Arnott is far from a 3rd liner. It's quite funny how he is being discussed about on the Ranger forums. He's still a scoring big body player.

However, Sather can probably get a better return if it came down to trading McDonagh in some sort of deal.

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06-20-2010, 11:16 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
This makes so little sense for the Rangers that I thought there was some new rule I wasn't aware of. I'm fully aware that you save caproom by buying out a player, but 2/3 still counts whther it be yours or a player from another team. So what is the point?

Huh is right. This is pointless and not really anything to discuss about. Makes no sense really unless like someone else said, the other team sweetens the deal; but why would they for a guy like Brashear, and why would we look to take on a hit more than Brashears when we're not in a good cap situation to begin with.
we dont have a cap hit if a player under 35 when his contract was signed is assigned to the AHL.

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Old
06-20-2010, 11:21 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
we dont have a cap hit if a player under 35 when his contract was signed is assigned to the AHL.
Yeah, for a guy like Brashear their is the over 35 clause correct? Even if he retires, sent to minors, etc we would still have to take on a portion up against the cap.

Ok now I understand where you guys are coming from. Rangerboy didn't make it clear as to what intentions he introduced the idea for. If we can get someone under 35 for Brash and we can assign them to Hartford then do that to save much needed space.

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06-20-2010, 11:25 AM
  #30
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Arnott? Seriously, Sather?

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06-20-2010, 11:26 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Arnott? Seriously, Sather?
i can see why hed do it if he could have gotten him for cheap to be a 1 year stop gap and have his cap hit removed in a year.

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06-20-2010, 11:29 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
i can see why hed do it if he could have gotten him for cheap to be a 1 year stop gap and have his cap hit removed in a year.
That's all it was going to be for a guy who's 35. Pretty funny tho that Torts is screaming for a younger team and here we have a rumor suggesting Sather was pusuing Arnott.

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06-20-2010, 11:34 AM
  #33
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More proof that the NHL salary cap system is stupid.

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Old
06-20-2010, 11:40 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Injury prone and inconsistent maybe, but I find it hard to believe you label the guy as a 3rd liner. Believe me, I'm no Jason Arnott, Nashville or even a veteran fan, but Arnott had scored 27 or more goals in the past 4 seasons prior to this one. He tailed off a bit in 2010, but still, as you're saying, he's not worth McDonagh. From my standpoint, he's not worth much.

He's 35 years old. The Devils can take all their old stars back, be a great regular season team, and then fatso will hit Dunkin Donuts before the first playoff series and bloat himself out of another one.
I was exaggerating a little to get my point across, but Arnott is on the downfall and I doubt he would be more than a 2nd/3rd liner on the Rangers. He does still have talent though, just not at the price of McDonagh.

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Old
06-20-2010, 11:53 AM
  #35
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It's simple:

Brashear is a 35+ player, which means that if we keep, his $1.4MM in salary counts against the cap no matter what. Doesn't matter if we play him, demote him, buy him out or he retires - we still take a $1.4MM cap hit for the season.

There are exactly two ways to avoid this problem: 1) Brashear does something to void his contract or 2) the Rangers trade him. Obviously, solution 1 is completely outside the Rangers control and Brashear, as a declining bruiser not likely to get another contract, is hardly likely to cooperate (and if collusion were proved, it wouln't matter anyway). So that leaves trading him and making him someone else's problem.

Brooks's solution therefore makes a lot of sense. There are a bunch of small budget teams in the league who a) care a lot more about real money costs than cap numbers and b) have internal caps well below the league cap. So you find one with a player who is fairly crapulent, who has a real cost significantly higher than the $1.4MM owed to Brashear, who has one year left on his contract - and, importantly, who is not a 35+ player. Witt from the Isles is a good example.

So, you trade Brashear for Witt (or someone similar). The Rangers take on Witt's contract, which has a cap hit of $2.5MM and a real money cost of $2.5MM. They demote him to the AHL, thus maintaining the real cost, but eliminating the cap hit entirely. (To be clear, the Rangers do not buy out anyone.) Meanwhile the Isles take on Brashear's contract. They then buy him out, thus bringing the real cost down to $867K (and only $433K per year over two years), but maintaining the cap hit of $1.4MM.

So, here are the net effects to both teams:

-Rangers: cap hit reduced by $1.4MM; payroll increased by $1.1MM (Witt's $2.5MM minus Brashear's $1.4MM).

-Isles: cap hit increased by $1.4MM (since they had demoted Witt to the minors); payroll decreased by $1.633M (Witt's $2.5MM minus Brashear's buyout number of $867K).

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Old
06-20-2010, 12:02 PM
  #36
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As much it makes sense for the Isles I somewhat doubt they do this with the Rangers for 1 mill and some change.

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06-20-2010, 12:15 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
As much it makes sense for the Isles I somewhat doubt they do this with the Rangers for 1 mill and some change.
That's just an example. Carolina and Samsonov is another example. I'm sure there are others.

Furthermore, if a team has an internal cap of say $40MM or so, you don't think close to $2MM in savings is relevant? If they didn't care about "only $2MM" why wouldn't they just spend to the cap? After all, it's only a couple of million more!

Their motivation is the same as the Rangers desire to move Brashear's $1.4MM. They free up space - they just happen to free up space under a real money payroll cap imposed by their ownership as opposed to space under the salary cap imposed by the league.

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Old
06-20-2010, 12:16 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
As much it makes sense for the Isles I somewhat doubt they do this with the Rangers for 1 mill and some change.
So they pay Witt $2.5 mil to play in Bridgeport--meanwhile their lucky on any given night (besides Rangers games) to half way fill up their own broken down arena? There is a good chance that's going to happen anyway--but it's senseless.

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Old
06-20-2010, 12:19 PM
  #39
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I am just a little bit confused as to how Nashville and Poile hang up after not getting Mcdonagh and then accept Halischuk. Arnott would not have been terrible as a one year stop gap. Not ideal but not the worst. I like the ideas being floated for how to get Brashear off the cao. I think Sather may get this done.

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Old
06-20-2010, 12:27 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Arnott? Seriously, Sather?
Hey at least he turned them down. Arnott is a good player, but we Rangers fans have to chuckle a bit that Sather is now the one shying away from trading prospects while Lou is giving them away like candy.

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Old
06-20-2010, 12:31 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
That's just an example. Carolina and Samsonov is another example. I'm sure there are others.

Furthermore, if a team has an internal cap of say $40MM or so, you don't think close to $2MM in savings is relevant? If they didn't care about "only $2MM" why wouldn't they just spend to the cap? After all, it's only a couple of million more!

Their motivation is the same as the Rangers desire to move Brashear's $1.4MM. They free up space - they just happen to free up space under a real money payroll cap imposed by their ownership as opposed to space under the salary cap imposed by the league.
Oh yeah I fully understand there are other examples. Just trying to establish that whenever it comes down to any Islander/Ranger transactions the mindset of both sides(especially Isles to further establish themselves in NY area) is different.

Appreciate the explanation of the process though! I've recently started to thoroughly sharpen my knowledge on this cap system, and all the in's and out's. I've mostly been someone to assess players, coaches, teams, gameplay, line-ups etc.

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Old
06-20-2010, 12:36 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
Oh yeah I fully understand there are other examples. Just trying to establish that whenever it comes down to any Islander/Ranger transactions the mindset of both sides(especially Isles to further establish themselves in NY area) is different.

Appreciate the explanation of the process though! I've recently started to thoroughly sharpen my knowledge on this cap system, and all the in's and out's. I've mostly been someone to assess players, coaches, teams, gameplay, line-ups etc.
No worries, my friend - glad to help out.

You're still wrong about Kovy, though.

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Old
06-20-2010, 12:43 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by nyranger61494 View Post
I am just a little bit confused as to how Nashville and Poile hang up after not getting Mcdonagh and then accept Halischuk. Arnott would not have been terrible as a one year stop gap. Not ideal but not the worst. I like the ideas being floated for how to get Brashear off the cao. I think Sather may get this done.
For the record, according the Arnott's interview from XM radio: at the end of the season, he briefly discussed extending his contract with Nashville. When Nashville couldn't provide the money he was looking for, he provided a "small list" of teams he would be willing to be traded to.

My assumption, and it's only based on that, is that the Rangers were on the small list, and Poile probably called Sather offering him Arnott for McDonagh. Sather probably told him we weren't interested, not only because we didn't want to give up McDonagh, but because we didn't want to acquire a 35 year old Arnott with only a year left on his contract.

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Old
06-20-2010, 12:45 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
No worries, my friend - glad to help out.

You're still wrong about Kovy, though.


That's where we can agree to disagree Both philosophies and arguments are very well documented in various thread. I love me some depth

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Old
06-20-2010, 12:58 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
i can see why hed do it if he could have gotten him for cheap to be a 1 year stop gap and have his cap hit removed in a year.
One year stop gap? Who is coming down the pipe next year that projects as a #1 center? I'm glad Slats held off on this one.

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Old
06-20-2010, 01:19 PM
  #46
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One year stop gap? Who is coming down the pipe next year that projects as a #1 center? I'm glad Slats held off on this one.
well their is the possibility of a richards/thornton/koivu being available next summer and arnotts contract is over in 1 year.

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Old
06-20-2010, 09:19 PM
  #47
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Polie wanted McD because it's the Rangers and there's that stereotype of a quick fix for a "name" like Arnott for youth. It happened for years and you can't blame Polie for trying. Sather did what he should do and walk away.

Samsonov can still play a little but that's too much. I watched Witt play in DC when I was in college; he's a great team guy and even though he has no wheels he could be invaluable to Dmen like Kundratek, Valatenko, etc. in Hartford to show them how to play the game.

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Old
06-20-2010, 10:29 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
i can see why hed do it if he could have gotten him for cheap to be a 1 year stop gap and have his cap hit removed in a year.
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Originally Posted by Media Savvy Lee View Post
Hey at least he turned them down. Arnott is a good player, but we Rangers fans have to chuckle a bit that Sather is now the one shying away from trading prospects while Lou is giving them away like candy.
I just don't see the point in making a trade to keep the team mediocre for another season.

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Old
06-20-2010, 10:33 PM
  #49
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I just don't see the point in making a trade to keep the team mediocre for another season.
Thankfully, neither did Slats. Although we'll never know, my guess is that WP Batman probably has called it pretty close to the way things happened.

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Old
06-20-2010, 10:35 PM
  #50
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I hate Witt with a passion, but I'd trade Brashear for him.

Redden could use a partner in Hartford.

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