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Pens to go hard after Whitney

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Old
06-20-2010, 04:23 PM
  #51
Big McLargehuge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
With a 2 year deal, Whitney will turn into a Guerin really fast.
What in Whitney's game suggests that? He's aged like a fine wine through his career and has never played a game based on strength, like Guerin. Whitney always struck me as one of those guys that's going to be good until 40 and effective in a limited role for a season or two past that.

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06-20-2010, 04:44 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
What in Whitney's game suggests that? He's aged like a fine wine through his career and has never played a game based on strength, like Guerin. Whitney always struck me as one of those guys that's going to be good until 40 and effective in a limited role for a season or two past that.
Everyone is comparing every older player to Guerin for some reason, who by the way at least put his points up and in that respect earned his money. Just because they're about the same age doesn't mean they're the same player I don't know why people make that mistake.

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06-20-2010, 04:44 PM
  #53
Florentino Ariza
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Guerin gets a lot of flak which is often justified for the way he loses battles, but the truth is that his point totals have been consistent for the past few years. We got a player who wasn't known at the time for speed and more than 50 points a season, and that's the guy we have. On the other hand, since Whitney is still very skilled and speedy for a guy his age, we would get a veteran who can still hit 70+ points and would be expected to shoulder more of the offensive load for the team. He's also still got the legs that Guerin didn't really have when he came over from the NYI and the passing skills Guerin lacks.

My point is that the comparison between the two players is unfair because when Guerin got here he wasn't a 60-75 point player, he was a 45 point player who scored in that range and then was criticized and expected to do more. Unrealistic expectations are what made we fans believe that Guerin fell off a cliff because of old age when in reality he was performing at about where he should have.

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06-20-2010, 04:51 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goncharz View Post
Guerin gets a lot of flak which is often justified for the way he loses battles, but the truth is that his point totals have been consistent for the past few years. We got a player who wasn't known at the time for speed and more than 50 points a season, and that's the guy we have. On the other hand, since Whitney is still very skilled and speedy for a guy his age, we would get a veteran who can still hit 70+ points and would be expected to shoulder more of the offensive load for the team. He's also still got the legs that Guerin didn't really have when he came over from the NYI and the passing skills Guerin lacks.

My point is that the comparison between the two players is unfair because when Guerin got here he wasn't a 60-75 point player, he was a 45 point player who scored in that range and then was criticized and expected to do more. Unrealistic expectations are what made we fans believe that Guerin fell off a cliff because of old age when in reality he was performing at about where he should have.
Perfectly said and it's also why people need to get off the idea of getting Whitney on a one year deal. It's not going to happen and even if he desperately wants to go to the Pens he'll take two years from another team. He's a better player at this stage than Guerin is, so to expect having to fork over anything less than 2 years/$6m is incorrect in my opinion.

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06-20-2010, 04:56 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
i'm almost certain jim matheson also used the phrase "take this to the bank" back in february to guarantee the penguins would trade for whitney at the deadline.

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06-20-2010, 04:56 PM
  #56
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Not to mention, the style each respective player plays relies on entirely different things to be successful.

Guerin was primarily a goal scoring powerforward. He needed his speed/hands in order to be most effective. Whitney is more of a "thinker", relying on skills and smarts more than anything. So while Guerin losing a step/reflexes slowing down can kill his game, Whitney can still get by on his smarts even if he starts to slow down a bit (which, to this point, he hasn't shown he is).

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06-20-2010, 04:57 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
What in Whitney's game suggests that? He's aged like a fine wine through his career and has never played a game based on strength, like Guerin. Whitney always struck me as one of those guys that's going to be good until 40 and effective in a limited role for a season or two past that.
He's 38 years old.

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06-20-2010, 04:59 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
He's 38 years old.
You have to support that argument w/ what you see on the ice. There are players out there who actually maintained a great level of play.

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06-20-2010, 05:03 PM
  #59
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At 5'10", a guy like Whitney needs his speed a heck of a lot more than Guerin does.

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06-20-2010, 05:13 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
You have to support that argument w/ what you see on the ice. There are players out there who actually maintained a great level of play.
I understand he is still playing well...but there is such a huge risk with these old guys. They are good one day, and then before you know it they slow down substantially. Sykora for example...now Sarge...its just very risky. And with our cap being so very tight..is it a risk worth taking for two years.

UNfortunately, there isn't much available this year in terms of wingers.

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06-20-2010, 05:16 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by angelgirl77 View Post
I understand he is still playing well...but there is such a huge risk with these old guys. They are good one day, and then before you know it they slow down substantially. Sykora for example...now Sarge...its just very risky. And with our cap being so very tight..is it a risk worth taking for two years.

UNfortunately, there isn't much available this year in terms of wingers.
Sykora was what, 31? Feds was 31 as well I think. Speed and agility is the issue and/or not having enough facets to your game. Whitney has those things. Gonchar doesn't even come into the conversation. He's still a very good player. Plus with the cap do you really think any team, let alone a team like us, is going to be able to field a 29 and under team? Accept the fact that we're never going to have the perfect lineup.

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06-20-2010, 05:18 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Sykora was what, 31? Feds was 31 as well I think. Speed and agility is the issue and/or not having enough facets to your game. Whitney has those things. Gonchar doesn't even come into the conversation. He's still a pretty decent defenseman when not being relied on to be the savior of a power play and be a number one defenseman in an NHL where you have to be able to skate and play at least somewhat physically. Also he's not worth $5mil/yr anymore.
I agree!

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06-20-2010, 05:23 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by The Mighty Boosh View Post
I agree!
Some defenseman just aren't physical players, I don't know why people can't accept that. He was never physical. I think he's still a good player. If he goes somewhere for $5 million again it won't be an overpayment if the other team actually has a well-rounded defense unlike ours was this year.

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06-20-2010, 05:27 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
What in Whitney's game suggests that? He's aged like a fine wine through his career and has never played a game based on strength, like Guerin. Whitney always struck me as one of those guys that's going to be good until 40 and effective in a limited role for a season or two past that.
Despite his age, he's continued to produce.

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06-20-2010, 05:56 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
You have to support that argument w/ what you see on the ice. There are players out there who actually maintained a great level of play.
Not many 38 year olds produce at a top 6 level. Only Selanne comes to mind.

The point is, every single athlete, ,especially hockey players, are on a severe decline once they're in their late 30s. There's no denying this. Just because Whitney has been effective recently, doesn't mean his age won't catch to him soon. In fact, he scored 20 less points this season as opposed to the previous season.

As much of an upgrade as he may be at this time, it's very questionable as to how long this will remain.

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06-20-2010, 06:00 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
Not many 38 year olds produce at a top 6 level. Only Selanne comes to mind.

The point is, every single athlete, ,especially hockey players, are on a severe decline once they're in their late 30s. There's no denying this. Just because Whitney has been effective recently, doesn't mean his age won't catch to him soon. In fact, he scored 20 less points this season as opposed to the previous season.

As much of an upgrade as he may be at this time, it's very questionable as to how long this will remain.
The fact of the matter is that there's nothing else in UFA that looks even half as good for around 3 mil per.

Speedy, great offensive sense, hands, RH shot, playoff productive...he fits virtually everything we need in a forward save the size and grit necessary for screening the goalie on the PP.

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06-20-2010, 06:04 PM
  #67
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Left circles: Whitney
In front of the net: Staal or Kunitz
Right hash marks: Crosby
Left point: Letang
Right point: Malkin

Whitney doesn't need to have grit or screen the goalie, Staal and Kunitz can do that.

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06-20-2010, 06:06 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
Left circles: Whitney
In front of the net: Staal or Kunitz
Right hash marks: Crosby
Left point: Letang
Right point: Malkin

Whitney doesn't need to have grit or screen the goalie, Staal and Kunitz can do that.
Yep. Or Tangradi, if we want to get real optimistic.

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06-20-2010, 06:06 PM
  #69
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Ray Whitney put up more points in his 36/37-year-old season than Bill Guerin ever did in any one season.

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06-20-2010, 06:07 PM
  #70
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Anyone who watched Guerin play with the Isles, saw he was slowing down. Ask and Isles fan. I even said as much last Nov. when I was pimping for Shero to trade for him. But I just felt he would get a second wind if he came to the Pens - and he did, but ran out of steam after the Caps series. You could see Guerin wasn't the same player 2-3 years ago.... but people somehow thought a 15 game stretch in the reg season + 2 playoff rounds of inspired play, meant he was 25 again.

Whitney hasn't shown any signs of slowing down. Zero.

Anyone making a parallel between Whitney and Guerin, hasn't watched Whitney play. He is called the "Wizard" for a reason - this guy is in great shape, still has wheels, and it isn't a stretch to say he will be a dangerous player until he is 40+.

I watched him play a ton last season, and lack of support is the only reason his numbers were down. He was right in the same ballpark with goals, but his assists were down, because his linemates weren't finishing his sick passes (sound familiar?)

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06-20-2010, 06:07 PM
  #71
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Early last season, I was ignorant enough to chalk him up as just another older player that wasn't worth the Pens time, then I took the time to actually watch him play a bunch after that. He still has it, guys. He's still very good, much better than Guerin and well worth signing, imo.

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06-20-2010, 06:27 PM
  #72
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The main difference between Whitney and Guerin here is their skating. Whitney could skate circles around Guerin right now. All the while Whitney still has the skills/hands to be a dangerous offensive player. Guerin's main weapon was his size last season, thats about it.

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06-20-2010, 06:29 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdpitt05 View Post
The main difference between Whitney and Guerin here is their skating. Whitney could skate circles around Guerin right now. All the while Whitney still has the skills/hands to be a dangerous offensive player. Guerin's main weapon was his size last season, thats about it.
Guerin hasn't had much speed for a while but has still been productive, because he has size and because he doesn't need to get to the high slot at breakneck speed..

As we've seen with a number of players, the wheels can come off fast, seemingly overnight, and when Whitney's do he's going to be less effective than Guerin at his worst.

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06-20-2010, 06:39 PM
  #74
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If we don't pursue Kovalchuk or Marleau, I don't see how we can NOT go after Whitney...and go hard after him. The choices are so ugly otherwise.

I just hope we don't cave on the third year.

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Old
06-20-2010, 06:44 PM
  #75
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if the pens entered the season with kunitz, whitney, and tangradi + talbot/dupuis/etc in the top 6....it really wouldnt be too bad.

it shall be interesting to watch though, as gonchar (almost certainly) leaving will free up a lot of cap space to spend. sure it would be more fun to net marleau, but is that best for the club?

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