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Pens to go hard after Whitney

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Old
06-21-2010, 06:04 AM
  #101
angelgirl77
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
They're all....different.....players......what is so hard about this?
It has nothing to do with the type of player they are...I am simply saying that it is very likely that his age will catch up with him. This has nothing to do with skill set, ability, etc...just age...bottom line.

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06-21-2010, 07:46 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by cynic View Post
well,a positive about signing Whitney is that this means Guerin is not coming back...
Whitney wearing the 13 would be an exorcism of sorts.

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06-21-2010, 07:57 AM
  #103
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I have a feeling that Bill Guerin finds his way back on the team regardless of signing Whitney. Bill is a RW and somebody has to play that position on lines 1 and 2. Whitney and Kunitz will play LW on line 1 and 2. The options for RW are guys like Talbot, Dupuis and possibly Nick Johnson, unless Shero signs another UFA, which seems doubtful, imo. Personally, I'd take a flier on a UFA RW like Svatos, but I doubt Shero will. Who knows? Army could be signed to play RW on line 1 or 2 with Crosby or Malkin. I dread either Guerin or Army playing 1st or 2nd line RW, though.

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06-21-2010, 08:09 AM
  #104
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Whitney is looking at 2 years probably 3-3.5 mil/year, pens have had prelimenary talks with Car about him nothing close but if they money is right they are going to make a serious run

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06-21-2010, 08:17 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Anderson55 View Post
Whitney is looking at 2 years probably 3-3.5 mil/year, pens have had prelimenary talks with Car about him nothing close but if they money is right they are going to make a serious run
Boy oh boy! How did you learn all this?!

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06-21-2010, 08:24 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
They're still athletes, doesn't matter what "type" of player they are. Gretzky wasn't the most physically gifted player, yet old age took his skills away in his late 30s.
This isn't even comparable.

Gretzky had a notoriously bad back that dogged him late in his career and he wasn't exactly what you would of called a workout monster.

Whitney on the other hand keeps himself in prime condition.

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Originally Posted by angelgirl77 View Post
It has nothing to do with the type of player they are...I am simply saying that it is very likely that his age will catch up with him. This has nothing to do with skill set, ability, etc...just age...bottom line.
Gordie Howe was putting up huge numbers in his mid 40s playing in the WHA, then at 52 put up around 45 pts playing in the NHL for the Whalers.

Each player needs to be judged separately; you can't group all of these guys into one pot because of their age.

All of the older players the Pens had problems with, had showed major signs of slowing down well before they became Penguins.

I doubt you or anyone weary of Whitney, has ever watched him play.

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06-21-2010, 08:40 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by "moxie".

It's not a question of his brain. It's a question of him being physically able to keep up and play hockey at a high level at an old age.

Shero's walking a tight rope with this one, as he was with Guerin, Roberts (remember how these 2 ended up?), and potentially Gonchar and Whitney.
I think Whitney is much closer to Selanne in a comparison than he is to Guerin or Roberts. From watching Whitney, nothing suggests that he's going to be slowing down. Selanne at 40 years old is still a player that has it in him to produce. I get a similar vibe from Whitney.

What people are saying though is correct. Once the wheels fall off Whitney, we'd be better off signing anybody else.

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06-21-2010, 08:51 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
What people are saying though is correct. Once the wheels fall off Whitney, we'd be better off signing anybody else.
Whitney isn't really even a burner... he is shifty and uses his edges extremely well. Even when he loses a step, his skating will still be an asset, along with his hockey sense, hands, playmaking, etc.

Those kind of skills aren't going to deteriorate anytime soon.

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06-21-2010, 08:54 AM
  #109
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With Whitney it's almost like the worst case scenario is that he turns into Sykora: nothing but a shot.

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06-21-2010, 09:04 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by WVP View Post
With Whitney it's almost like the worst case scenario is that he turns into Sykora: nothing but a shot.
Whitney with a broken arm and one eye would still be twice the playmaker Sykora ever was.

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06-21-2010, 09:05 AM
  #111
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Yeah, I think Whitney is much more of a playmaker than a shooter, especially at this point of his career.

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06-21-2010, 09:14 AM
  #112
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If a guy can still move his feet, I don't care how old he is. Whitney can still burn and it's not something that vanishes from one day to the next because they celebrate a birthday.

Guerin was never a burner, and it's always the guys who weren't great skaters in the first place who suffer as they get older.

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06-21-2010, 09:14 AM
  #113
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I think what Angel, 21pro and Ziggy are trying to suggest here with Whitney is...are you prepared to have dead cap-space if we have to go too far to get him?

Whatever the rationale is about Whitney's style of game, his training regimen and his production at present time, in the words of The Rolling Stones "Time Waits for No One". Sure, Ray Whitney could become the next Chris Chelios or Gordie Howe. Are you willing to gamble on it?

Guerin's production last year at age 39 was not bat all (it was his GAME that really was hard to watch, but production was there). Two years from now, if we still have Whitney (hypothetically), I'd take similar production.

Hey, I want Ray Whitney. Two years, $3.5 million/year (no NTC) and welcome to Pittsburgh. Anything more than that, I'd be a little worried.

And I really don't want both Whitney and Gonchar. Yes, our oldest player right now is Brent Johnson (33), but I'd love to keep it that way if we could. If push comes to shove, sign one of the geezers. But going young this off-season sounds like such a great idea to me...especially in light of how we were so badly out-skated in the Montreal series. That really cannot happen again.

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06-21-2010, 09:15 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
If a guy can still move his feet, I don't care how old he is. Whitney can still burn and it's not something that vanishes from one day to the next because they celebrate a birthday.

Guerin was never a burner, and it's always the guys who weren't great skaters in the first place who suffer as they get older.
I don't think you remember young Bill Guerin. He had great skating ability. And of course you can lose your wheels overnight. It's happened before and it'll happen again.

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06-21-2010, 09:24 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I don't think you remember young Bill Guerin. He had great skating ability. And of course you can lose your wheels overnight. It's happened before and it'll happen again.
I remember him fine. He had a good burst but was never someone who was known for his skating.

Like I said earlier, his "overnight" was YEARS ago, and it'll only get worse.

The sad part about Guerin is that in the neutral zone, he wasn't horrible. He seemed to be able to skate fine and move his feet at a decent rate without the puck. It's only when he'd gain possession where he'd suddenly go spread eagle and coast, especially once in the offensive zone.

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06-21-2010, 09:25 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I don't think you remember young Bill Guerin. He had great skating ability. And of course you can lose your wheels overnight. It's happened before and it'll happen again.

Plus Whitney is not 6'2" 220lbs pounding down on his joints like Guerin, he is 5'10 180lbs and slight of foot. I don't think anything baring an injury would diminish his abilities as I feel that was the case for Sykora at such a young age still. Sykora looses his shot, he is pretty much worthless, and I believe that was the case.

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06-21-2010, 09:25 AM
  #117
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Take this to the bank:
anything written about free agency or trade deadlines in an Edmonton paper likely has no factual basis or is purely guesswork, and might actually be less grounded in reality than something you would get from TIOPS or Bob Rossi. Well.... maybe not Bob Rossi, but TIOPS for sure.

I'm starting to believe the fact that EDM fans are often so far removed from reality, might have something to do with their journalists also being far removed from reality. I think the Gretzky trade fried the collective mind up there and they still haven't recovered... somehow. Also the fact that you think about nothing but hockey 12 months a year and how badly your team sucks compared to the "good ole days", might drive a person a little loony, eh?


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06-21-2010, 09:25 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
2 years? Get it done Ray! We might even get him at a lower cap hit.

Sign Whitney, sign Michalek, keep Eaton and trade for Versteeg.

Kunitz - Sid - Versteeg
Whitney - Geno - Dupuis
Big Dog - Staal - Kennedy
Rupp - Talbot - Adams

Orpik - Letang
Michalek - Goligoski
Eaton - Lovejoy

Fleury
Johnson

Make it happen!
hmmm I like that.

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06-21-2010, 09:28 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I remember him fine. He had a good burst but was never someone who was known for his skating.

Like I said earlier, his "overnight" was YEARS ago, and it'll only get worse.

The sad part about Guerin is that in the neutral zone, he wasn't horrible. He seemed to be able to skate fine and move his feet at a decent rate without the puck. It's only when he'd gain possession where he'd suddenly go spread eagle and coast, especially once in the offensive zone.

Thats because he was always looking to get rid of it as fast as he got it, rather than taking it in on his own to battle for ice with it.

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06-21-2010, 09:43 AM
  #120
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Guerin may not have been known for his skating, but what made him such an attractive commodity in his youth was the overall package of size, shot, skating and grit. He had all the tools of a prototypical power forward. When he played on Edmonton next to Weight, his skating really shone through.

Anyways, enough about Billy G. I hope to God we just say no to him this time around. He's MORE finished than Ray Whitney, absolutely no doubt about it.

BUT, is NOBODY concerned about Whitney's 19-point drop-off in production this past season? It wouldn't prevent me from signing him, but it is a worry.

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06-21-2010, 09:49 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Guerin may not have been known for his skating, but what made him such an attractive commodity in his youth was the overall package of size, shot, skating and grit. He had all the tools of a prototypical power forward. When he played on Edmonton next to Weight, his skating really shone through.

Anyways, enough about Billy G. I hope to God we just say no to him this time around. He's MORE finished than Ray Whitney, absolutely no doubt about it.

BUT, is NOBODY concerned about Whitney's 19-point drop-off in production this past season? It wouldn't prevent me from signing him, but it is a worry.
No, as said about the overall team in Carolina had more to do with it. It was a very rough start for them.

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06-21-2010, 09:57 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by odds View Post
No, as said about the overall team in Carolina had more to do with it. It was a very rough start for them.
I'm curious as to how many points Whitney got after Staal came back from his injury and was given the "C". The entire team seemed to pick it up after that. I wonder if the season lasted another couple of weeks if they could have managed to sneak in.

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06-21-2010, 09:58 AM
  #123
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Whitney is just a short term fix and I am tired of this. I really want Shero to look for one long term winger for both Crosby and Malkin. We can have a Kunitz, Dupuis, or Talbot for one of their wings as long as they have a gifted winger on the other side. Shero should be going after Frolov, Zherdev, Versteeg, and even someone like Sharp who is a center to maybe play wing. If you got two guys like these players one for each of our top two lines then we would be set for years for the top 2 lines.

I say offer a deal like the Hawks did for Hossa with 4 or 5 fake years in the deal to bring down the cap number. We should make a run at Frolov with that kind of deal.

Trading for Versteeg is interesting because the Hawks are in such a bad cap situation and have no leverage. No way will they get close to fair value for any of their players they are trying to trade because all the GM's know their cap situation and are not going to help them out of it without some great deal that steals players away for half their real value. Remember Jagr and Kovy trades?

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06-21-2010, 10:01 AM
  #124
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Sure Whitney's production last season is a concern, especially since he scored only 2 goals in his final 20 games (and none in his final 12). There is a small chance he will go Slava Kozlov on us. But I think his weaker season had more to do with being on a crappy team in general. He was still the Canes' #3 scorer. And his age is the only reason why he'll be affordable for us at all. We're not getting a 65 point scorer in his prime for 3 million a year.

The difference to Guerin is that Whitney can still move and create offense where Guerin was only a leech. Billy always relied on his physical attributes and now that much of that is gone, he's toast. Whitney has always been a smart and shifty guy and those things don't degrade as much with age. He's also been pretty healthy in recent years aside from an ankle injury in 2008.

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06-21-2010, 10:04 AM
  #125
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
Whitney is just a short term fix and I am tired of this. I really want Shero to look for one long term winger for both Crosby and Malkin. We can have a Kunitz, Dupuis, or Talbot for one of their wings as long as they have a gifted winger on the other side. Shero should be going after Frolov, Zherdev, Versteeg, and even someone like Sharp who is a center to maybe play wing. If you got two guys like these players one for each of our top two lines then we would be set for years for the top 2 lines.

I say offer a deal like the Hawks did for Hossa with 4 or 5 fake years in the deal to bring down the cap number. We should make a run at Frolov with that kind of deal.

Trading for Versteeg is interesting because the Hawks are in such a bad cap situation and have no leverage. No way will they get close to fair value for any of their players they are trying to trade because all the GM's know their cap situation and are not going to help them out of it without some great deal that steals players away for half their real value. Remember Jagr and Kovy trades?
Not to pick on you, but too many people don't watch the players they "want" and it turns into posts like this.

Frolov, as I have touched on in other posts, will pull a Poni and disappear for weeks at a time. His own GM has said as much and eventhough they have plenty of cap room in LA, he doesn't want to sign him.

Think about why.

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