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Old
06-21-2010, 03:43 AM
  #51
Rick Deckard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I think the number of years are going to factor on this contract significantly. I think McKenzie could be hiking it just a bit.
The problem is that we buy Hamhuis right through his prime. To get cheap years you have to offer him at least nine or ten, when he will be 36/37 years old. And some lesser guys (in my opinion) got nice deals too, Finger (3.5), Commodore (3.75) or Hainsey (4.5), though they all signed with bad teams.

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06-21-2010, 03:56 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
The problem is that we buy Hamhuis right through his prime. To get cheap years you have to offer him at least nine or ten, when he will be 36/37 years old. And some lesser guys (in my opinion) got nice deals too, Finger (3.5), Commodore (3.75) or Hainsey (4.5), though they all signed with bad teams.
We will see what happens. Speculating isn't going to make it go any faster, and at this point, everyone's said their piece on the matter.

We will have to know by the draft realistically, so these contract talks better go quickly.

These are the main variables we have, good and bad, that relate to this signing:
-Hamhuis' association with Timonen
-The amount he could get on the open market
-Holmgren's particular interest in acquiring Hamhuis
-The amount of "top 4" defensemen on the roster
-The amount of money we have committed
-The interest in various other players on our roster from around the league
-The state of our team as an NHL powerhouse
-His age
-His prior accomplishments at the NHL level
-The amount of time before we have to make a movement decision before the draft
-Holmgren's long-term plans for the roster

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Old
06-21-2010, 07:36 AM
  #53
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I'm quite torn on the impending Hamhuis contract. I'm of the opinion his value is between 3.5 - 4.5. If he's closer to the floor I see it as pretty good value, whereas if he's closer to the cieling, I'd be quite skeptical.

He turns 28 in August which means he has 7 full seasons before he turns 35 (and is then subject to the over 35 rule). The question is whether or not Hamhuis is good enough to invest in long term. I'm not so sure. He's quite good, and would really contribute, but he's no Pronger or Timonen, in that he can be a #1 guy. I believe a 7 year deal would be VERY appealing to Hamhuis because he gets substantial length, and would still only be 34 heading into UFA again, and potentially another nice contract. I could see a cap hit in the neighborhood of 3.75 on a 7 year deal. Anything beyond 7 years, and we might as well make it one of the super long deals intended to substantially decrese the cap hit (something like 10 years). That however, just doesn't seem to make sense for a mostly defensive defenseman.

It should be interesting; I really have no idea which direction Homer will go. Shorter deal with a higher hit, or yet another long term deal in order to see some savings. If I had to guess, I might think something like 5 years and 20 million.

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Old
06-21-2010, 08:49 AM
  #54
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i read somewhere that hamhuis didnt really want to come to philly. so if for whatever reason we cant sign him..we could trade his rights before the 1st?

-carles cap is 3.4m. he got 42points in SJ and 35 with us last year and was +19, granted he was with pronger.
-hamhuis cap is 2m. seems to consistently get around 27 points and from what ive read can play anywhere. pk, pp, big minutes.

so basically it seems like we might have another carle, but maybe not as offensively skilled.

4yrs 3.5-3.8m

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06-21-2010, 08:52 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Foreverinour View Post
i read somewhere that hamhuis didnt really want to come to philly. so if for whatever reason we cant sign him..we could trade his rights before the 1st?

-carles cap is 3.4m. he got 42points in SJ and 35 with us last year and was +19, granted he was with pronger.
-hamhuis cap is 2m. seems to consistently get around 27 points and from what ive read can play anywhere. pk, pp, big minutes.

so basically it seems like we might have another carle, but maybe not as offensively skilled.

4yrs 3.5-3.8m
I wouldn't compare Hamhuis to Carle at all. I'm no expert on Hamhuis with him being out West his whole career, but his strength is a fairly physical defensive game, with an ability to effectively move the puck but he won't wow you. Carle's strength is an above average ability to move the puck, with little to no physicality, and occasional lapses in his defensive game.

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Old
06-21-2010, 08:58 AM
  #56
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Hamhuis would be a good fit in Philly - I think a guy such as him could really benefit the other D. He can log big minutes and for the most part, isn't a liability.

For what it's worth, he has always been the preds BEST D-man come playoff time.... This I know.

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Old
06-21-2010, 09:05 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreverinour View Post
i read somewhere that hamhuis didnt really want to come to philly. so if for whatever reason we cant sign him..we could trade his rights before the 1st?

-carles cap is 3.4m. he got 42points in SJ and 35 with us last year and was +19, granted he was with pronger.
-hamhuis cap is 2m. seems to consistently get around 27 points and from what ive read can play anywhere. pk, pp, big minutes.

so basically it seems like we might have another carle, but maybe not as offensively skilled.

4yrs 3.5-3.8m
As an overall defenseman, he's a big improvement over Carle... or, at least, should be.

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06-21-2010, 09:08 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Foreverinour View Post
i read somewhere that hamhuis didnt really want to come to philly.
Link it up.

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06-21-2010, 09:11 AM
  #59
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In March, two sources said Hamhuis didn’t want to come to the Flyers because he was concerned about the “pressure” of playing in Philadelphia.
http://www.csnphilly.com/06/19/10/Fl...927&feedID=704

take it for what its worth i suppose.

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06-21-2010, 09:16 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreverinour View Post
http://www.csnphilly.com/06/19/10/Fl...927&feedID=704

take it for what its worth i suppose.
Seems pretty stoked about the prospect now... I'm always suspicious of any attributed source of a player saying he doesn't want to play somewhere because of the "pressure." I just very much doubt a player would admit that to someone...

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06-21-2010, 09:19 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreverinour View Post
http://www.csnphilly.com/06/19/10/Fl...927&feedID=704

take it for what its worth i suppose.
Two unnamed sources.

Hamhuis' quote(s) doesn't sound tepid:
Quote:
“I spent some great years with them and it is great organization to be a part of. I've heard nothing but great things about the city of Philadelphia and the Flyers.

“I think Philly has an unbelievable defensive core. To join a core like that makes the Flyers one of the tougher ones in the league. To play against the teams from the East, the conference has a lot of great forwards, and watching the playoffs, having a great defense will get you a long way.”
Also, the rumored deal at the deadline was Parent and Coburn for Hamhuis. The Flyers refused.

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Old
06-21-2010, 09:23 AM
  #62
healthyscratch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreverinour View Post
http://www.csnphilly.com/06/19/10/Fl...927&feedID=704

take it for what its worth i suppose.
Cool, thanks for the link.

These people named Sources never have anything good to say!

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Old
06-21-2010, 09:26 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by PhillyFan4Ever View Post
he knows enough to do it in the playoffs..... and i think hes an upgrade to coburn/ carle/etc....
I'm not sure he will be an upgrade over Carle now, or Coburn two years from now when he reaches his prime.

Over $4M for a guy who might not be in your top 4 is a bit too much.

Homer seems to have gone crazy over defencemen in the same way Clarke went crazy over forwards - all the while leaving a gaping hole in the cage....

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06-21-2010, 09:31 AM
  #64
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what player WOULDN'T want to sign with the Flyers now?

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06-21-2010, 09:33 AM
  #65
healthyscratch
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what player WOULDN'T want to sign with the Flyers now?
Adam Burish?

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06-21-2010, 09:36 AM
  #66
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I'm not sure he will be an upgrade over Carle now, or Coburn two years from now when he reaches his prime.

Over $4M for a guy who might not be in your top 4 is a bit too much.
Matt Carle this past season was entirely the product of Pronger as far as catapulting him to the status he currently enjoys. His game didn't change, he just got a fantastic partner to play with that dominates the course of play. Go back a year and watch Coburn and Carle trying to get it done, and you'll see the serious flaws in both their games.

Coburn can be better than Hamhuis, but he's got some big hurdles mentally to get over to get there.

As to the cash and position in the lineup... that's why Homer should trade one of the other two.

Quote:
Homer seems to have gone crazy over defencemen in the same way Clarke went crazy over forwards - all the while leaving a gaping hole in the cage....
Yep. If Homer holds all 5 and doesn't find an improvement in net he's, once again, displaying his inability to address the team in its entirety. This has been an issue in each season. He always leaves one notable hole in the lineup.

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06-21-2010, 09:38 AM
  #67
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I personally think we are going to make a big move on draft day. Just a hunch.

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06-21-2010, 10:02 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Adam Burish?
He said Flyers, not Adirondack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yep. If Homer holds all 5 and doesn't find an improvement in net he's, once again, displaying his inability to address the team in its entirety. This has been an issue in each season. He always leaves one notable hole in the lineup.
That would be the case, but I don't see that happening. He made it clear in his comments after the season ended that he wasn't satisfied with the goaltending they had, I can't see him justifying sticking with slop in net. I think he's going to be aggressive on this issue, something will budge cap-wise by the draft in terms of a trade for a goalie or at least freed cap space, in which case a splash will be made 7/1.

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06-21-2010, 10:08 AM
  #69
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4 years 4 mill avg

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06-21-2010, 10:20 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Matt Carle this past season was entirely the product of Pronger as far as catapulting him to the status he currently enjoys. His game didn't change, he just got a fantastic partner to play with that dominates the course of play. Go back a year and watch Coburn and Carle trying to get it done, and you'll see the serious flaws in both their games.

Coburn can be better than Hamhuis, but he's got some big hurdles mentally to get over to get there.

As to the cash and position in the lineup... that's why Homer should trade one of the other two.



Yep. If Homer holds all 5 and doesn't find an improvement in net he's, once again, displaying his inability to address the team in its entirety. This has been an issue in each season. He always leaves one notable hole in the lineup
.
Quote:
Also, Holmgren said he "doesn't see why not" he wouldn't be able to sign Hamhuis and Coburn. The pt of my column: doing so limits goalie $.
From Frank Seravalli.

Limiting their damn options for a goalie...Homer better not mess this up and get another ****** goalie

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06-21-2010, 10:22 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
From Frank Seravalli.

Limiting their damn options for a goalie...Homer better not mess this up and get another ****** goalie
Of course he can sign Coburn and Hamhius, because he's going to trade Carle at the deadline.

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06-21-2010, 10:23 AM
  #72
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Of course he can sign Coburn and Hamhius, because he's going to trade Carle at the deadline.
I hope so, but in Frank's article, it is sounding like Homer is leaning towards 5 good defenders.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...r_Hamhuis.html

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06-21-2010, 10:24 AM
  #73
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This is the one time I will agree that it would be more important to get a goalie than holding onto skaters. We don't need all of Coburn, Carle, and Hamhuis, even if we lock Coburn and Hamhuis at a discount.

It'd be nice, but we can't be stuck with Leighton/Boucher.

I'd be okay with Biron but not Leighton or Niittymaki or Boucher...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I hope so, but in Frank's article, it is sounding like Homer is leaning towards 5 good defenders.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...r_Hamhuis.html
Frank's normally pretty reliable by the way.

If Holmgren is keep 5 defenseman, then a forward is being moved.

It will be one of Hartnell (most likely), Carter (less likely), Briere (even less likely), and Gagne (the least likely of the four).

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06-21-2010, 10:27 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
From Frank Seravalli.

Limiting their damn options for a goalie...Homer better not mess this up and get another ****** goalie
Yep, and this is the exact type of crap with Holmgren that drives me up the wall. The problem is obvious, and the potential solution is also obvious. I'm not saying to give away one of Coburn/Carle, but I don't see how having 4 D in that price range makes sense given the hole in goal. Perhaps you create that space from the forwards (not a terrible idea... but the 5 D situation would remain problematic against the cap in the coming years potentially), but the more obvious trade chip seems to be Coburn/Carle.

I love this move if that's how they approached it. Hamhuis is better than Carle/Coburn, and then we can use them to get other parts and use that cap space on another position. I mean, if you swing a deal for Schneider centered around Coburn, I think that's a great overall use of assets. You've gotten (short term at least) improvement on D, and put a very good goalie prospect in the system (and, in that case, likely on the roster).

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06-21-2010, 10:32 AM
  #75
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Frank's normally pretty reliable by the way.

If Holmgren is keep 5 defenseman, then a forward is being moved.

It will be one of Hartnell (most likely), Carter (less likely), Briere (even less likely), and Gagne (the least likely of the four).
Disagree if they've made a commitment to moving a forward. Assuming Gagne would waive his NTC... there is clear logic to moving him at this point.

1) I would hope (though, not sure due to my low opinion of their long-term planning) that they are aware that re-signing Gagne after next year is problematic at best.

2) With 1-year remaining, Gagne is a good flexible contract for another team.

3) Gagne is the least reliable physically of that group. He could be a 35 goal scorer, or play 20 games next year...

Briere is the least likely to move due to his contract... which, frankly, remains prohibitive even if he had a nice playoff run.

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