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Old
06-21-2010, 09:07 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yeah... about that, folks tend to be positive when they talk about people they work with.

And, has he been better than Lemelin? Lemelin got great goaltending out of Biron and Nitty the last couple of years. He got great seasons out of a collage of marginal goalies over the years. Lemelin didn't deserve the criticism he got around here, and Reese doesn't deserve the praise he's gotten of late either.
Under Lemelin every goaltender left here much worse than when they got here, yet he somehow kept his job every year. Leighton and Boucher at least made it work the best they could even if the sample size is small.

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06-21-2010, 09:09 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The other problem is that the "fix" for Leighton is a massive Catch-22. Leighton's problem before was that he would go out to challenge and lacked the athleticism/quickness to get back into position after he left a rebound. So, what do you do... move him back in the net a bit. Problem then is that shooters have a bit better angle, and it doesn't actually solve the rebound problem.
What is it I hear the soccer guys always saying about coaching "there's no substitute for quality"? You can coach around certain kinds of suck, but really you're just just relocating the burden on the defense.

Just as a side note, his problem was bigger than a lack of athleticism (though that was there), he completely lost the net whenever he ventured outside of his crease. Knowing where the net is behind you is second nature to every competitive goalie by the time they're in juniors. How does this happen as a professional. One would think it impossible to remain employed with out correcting that.

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06-21-2010, 09:11 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Under Lemelin every goaltender left here much worse than when they got here, yet he somehow kept his job every year. Leighton and Boucher at least made it work the best they could even if the sample size is small.
Who left here worse?

Esche was never that great and the lockout pretty much killed his career in the NHL.

Nitty was a notably better goalie by the end (hampered by his hips).

Biron was consistent for the full tenure of his two years here.

Cechmanek's final season in Philly he demonstrably posted his best season.

Beezer hit the wall of age.

Boucher clearly was not the franchise goalie the organization decided he was.

Shall we go on? The Lemelin dislike, similar to the Biron hate, is completely devoid of any attachment to an empirical reality.

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06-21-2010, 09:13 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
What is it I hear the soccer guys always saying about coaching "there's no substitute for quality"? You can coach around certain kinds of suck, but really you're just just relocating the burden on the defense.

Just as a side note, his problem was bigger than a lack of athleticism (though that was there), he completely lost the net whenever he ventured outside of his crease. Knowing where the net is behind you is second nature to every competitive goalie by the time they're in juniors. How does this happen as a professional. One would think it impossible to remain employed with out correcting that.
Nitty did the same stuff. It's not that uncommon with weak NHL goalies if you look around, and mostly stems from poor recovering ability (which Leighton absolutely sucks at). They start going one way and aren't good at stopping and getting their body moving the other way.

Look, you can say Tampa didn't have good goalies... and I don't disagree. But there is no compelling evidence of Reese doing anything of any merit down there as a goalie coach either. I'm not sure one year with Leighton is evidence that he's the greatest goalie coach ever.

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06-21-2010, 09:20 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
In other news, I love the "Jeff Reese is the messiah" meme around here. I have yet to see an explanation for why the goaltending was *ing awful in Tampa Bay under his tutelage after Khabi left.
John f'ing Grahame was the starter there. Enough said. Then it was an end of the line, over the hill Sean Burke. Enough said. Olaf Kolzig was also signed on the downside of his career. Enough said. And finally, nobody expected Marc Denis to tank the way he did. He was never the same after leaving the Columbus organization. So, blaming Reese for that mess isn't fair. Jay Feaster asked Reese to make chiken salad out of chicken s**t and that's not a fair thing. We all saw what Reese could do this year and it was head and shoulders above anything Lemelin could ever do.

Lemelin was a terrible goaltending coach and as GKJ14 pointed out, every goaltender that came through here and left was even worse by the time he got through with them. He was also a coach that would only work with the goaltenders maybe once, twice a week. Reese on the other hand is always looking over tape and always finding areas that the goaltenders can improve on. Lemelin did none of the sort.

As for Niittymaki giving up big rebounds, I remember when he played his first game in Philadelphia (a call up during the 03-04 season) and he was on fire. He was sound positionally and he was exceptional with regards to rebounds. Then Lemelin sunk his claws into him. Look at Biron. His first couple of games after being traded to the Flyers during the season from hell and he was everything the Flyers were looking for. A big, athletic goalie that could make the big save and wouldn't give up big rebounds. Two seasons with Lemelin and all that changes. There's a pattern here with Lemelin. The guy was terrible goaltending coach. I'm glad they canned his ass because he showed that he just couldn't get the job done.

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06-21-2010, 09:21 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Who left here worse?

Esche was never that great and the lockout pretty much killed his career in the NHL.

Nitty was a notably better goalie by the end (hampered by his hips).

Biron was consistent for the full tenure of his two years here.

Cechmanek's final season in Philly he demonstrably posted his best season.

Beezer hit the wall of age.

Boucher clearly was not the franchise goalie the organization decided he was.

Shall we go on? The Lemelin dislike, similar to the Biron hate, is completely devoid of any attachment to an empirical reality.
Cechmanek didn't leave because he wasn't good, he left because the whole team hated him. Although, he was terrible in LA (much like the rest of that team was that year).

I'd say Niittymaki and Biron are both still decent NHL goaltenders, but I think they were much better when they got here than when they left.

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06-21-2010, 09:25 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
He got something out of a Leighton turd.
Yes he did. A shiny turd. It looks okay enough, but look close enough and it still smells like ****.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
If you're that good a coach, you shouldn't be in charge of the worst goal tending in the league over a few seasons.
There's no substitute for quality, particularly when you're coaching an individual, not a team.

Tampa's D didn't help their goalies out much either. But you don't think the quality of a defense has anything to do with a goalie's save percentage, so you won't accept that as a contributing factor, true?

All I said was that I "felt confident he wasn't hurting anything". I've never said anything about Jeff Reese beyond that his tweaks seem to have worked for Leighton, and that it was encouraging going forward to see that. I'm not one of the people who've been singing his praises endlessly.

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Sure it was a turd, but there wasn't any polish on it. They weren't bad, they were the worst in the league. And now he's a miracle worker... well, where was the miracle down there?
Just one miracle does not a miracle worker make, lol?

I think the "miracle workers" behind Leighton's successes this season were primarily the team defense, Leighton getting on a roll and Reese helping him out a bit, in that order. The lion's share of the credit goes to the D corp.

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Nitty did the same stuff. It's not that uncommon with weak NHL goalies if you look around, and mostly stems from poor recovering ability (which Leighton absolutely sucks at). They start going one way and aren't good at stopping and getting their body moving the other way.
We are talking about two separate causes for the same issue (being out of position, out of the crease). Leighton almost every time he attacked a shooter would completely lose his net, and sucked at getting back. He had it way worse than Nitty ever did, and it came up way more often. Nitty was actually a pretty athletic goalie, and when he did lose his net it was not by 6 feet.

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Look, you can say Tampa didn't have good goalies... and I don't disagree. But there is no compelling evidence of Reese doing anything of any merit down there as a goalie coach either. I'm not sure one year with Leighton is evidence that he's the greatest goalie coach ever.
It isn't. I never said anything even close to that either. All I did say was that his tenure in Tampa should be viewed in proper context. If you want to cite that performance as evidence, we should at least consider all the factors at work.


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Old
06-21-2010, 09:28 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
John f'ing Grahame was the starter there. Enough said. Then it was an end of the line, over the hill Sean Burke. Enough said. Olaf Kolzig was also signed on the downside of his career. Enough said. And finally, nobody expected Marc Denis to tank the way he did. He was never the same after leaving the Columbus organization. So, blaming Reese for that mess isn't fair. Jay Feaster asked Reese to make chiken salad out of chicken s**t and that's not a fair thing. We all saw what Reese could do this year and it was head and shoulders above anything Lemelin could ever do.

Lemelin was a terrible goaltending coach and as GKJ14 pointed out, every goaltender that came through here and left was even worse by the time he got through with them. He was also a coach that would only work with the goaltenders maybe once, twice a week. Reese on the other hand is always looking over tape and always finding areas that the goaltenders can improve on. Lemelin did none of the sort.

As for Niittymaki giving up big rebounds, I remember when he played his first game in Philadelphia (a call up during the 03-04 season) and he was on fire. He was sound positionally and he was exceptional with regards to rebounds. Then Lemelin sunk his claws into him. Look at Biron. His first couple of games after being traded to the Flyers during the season from hell and he was everything the Flyers were looking for. A big, athletic goalie that could make the big save and wouldn't give up big rebounds. Two seasons with Lemelin and all that changes. There's a pattern here with Lemelin. The guy was terrible goaltending coach. I'm glad they canned his ass because he showed that he just couldn't get the job done.
Gotta agree with you and GKJ here, if there has been anything about the Flyers and goaltending over the years its been Lemelin and them not getting the job done... I was ecstatic when he was canned and only hoped that maybe the training staff would soon follow in his foot steps. I know the dude didn't always have the best talent to work with, but christ if he's doing his job at a professional level he'd at least be able to polish up one of the knuckleheads that were thrown his way into something worth while. Hate seeing repeated failures stick around in professional sports simply because they have an organization that likes to keep family ties to their employees, that's bad business.

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Old
06-21-2010, 09:29 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
John f'ing Grahame was the starter there. Enough said. Then it was an end of the line, over the hill Sean Burke. Enough said. Olaf Kolzig was also signed on the downside of his career. Enough said. And finally, nobody expected Marc Denis to tank the way he did. He was never the same after leaving the Columbus organization. So, blaming Reese for that mess isn't fair. Jay Feaster asked Reese to make chiken salad out of chicken s**t and that's not a fair thing. We all saw what Reese could do this year and it was head and shoulders above anything Lemelin could ever do.
So, it's everyone else's fault... not Reese's. However, he's entirely responsible for the rebirth of Michael Leighton?

...see the problem here?

Quote:
Lemelin was a terrible goaltending coach and as GKJ14 pointed out, every goaltender that came through here and left was even worse by the time he got through with them. He was also a coach that would only work with the goaltenders maybe once, twice a week. Reese on the other hand is always looking over tape and always finding areas that the goaltenders can improve on. Lemelin did none of the sort.
So your problem is with style, not substance specifically? And, no, not every goalie that came through here left worse... actually, it's pretty much impossible to make an argument actually employing facts that backs that up.

Quote:
As for Niittymaki giving up big rebounds, I remember when he played his first game in Philadelphia (a call up during the 03-04 season) and he was on fire. He was sound positionally and he was exceptional with regards to rebounds. Then Lemelin sunk his claws into him. Look at Biron. His first couple of games after being traded to the Flyers during the season from hell and he was everything the Flyers were looking for. A big, athletic goalie that could make the big save and wouldn't give up big rebounds. Two seasons with Lemelin and all that changes. There's a pattern here with Lemelin. The guy was terrible goaltending coach. I'm glad they canned his ass because he showed that he just couldn't get the job done.
1) Nitty was streaky for his entire tenure here. So, lets not focus on a small sample of games from a call up. He went to the Olympics, from Lemelin's tutelage, and was the MVP of the tourney. He was streaky down in TB this year. Just the way he is.

2) Biron was the same goalie for his entire tenure here.

3) Lemelin coached Biron and Nitty to top 5 tandem in the league status, and got great performances out of Esche, Cechmanek, etc. prior to then. Hell, even Jeff Hackett (a TERRIBLE signing) was OK here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Cechmanek didn't leave because he wasn't good, he left because the whole team hated him. Although, he was terrible in LA (much like the rest of that team was that year).

I'd say Niittymaki and Biron are both still decent NHL goaltenders, but I think they were much better when they got here than when they left.
You think Nitty was better in Finland than he was in Philly? Biron's two years here were the best consecutive years of his career.

There are MASSIVE holes in the argument you're trying to make... which is the problem with the Lemelin angst.

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06-21-2010, 09:32 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Just one miracle does not a miracle worker make, lol?

I think the "miracle workers" behind Leighton's successes this season were primarily the team defense, Leighton getting on a roll and Reese helping him out a bit, in that order. The lion's share of the credit goes to the D corp.
Then I'm not sure why you're engaging me on the trope I'm specifically noting, which is that Jeff Reese is a God and can fix any goalie we deem to sign. I'm not saying he's a terrible goalie coach, I'm simply questioning the borderline mythic status he's seemingly achieved... which the job he did in TB does not appear to support at all.

This paired with this meme of Lemelin being awful and ignoring that he was NEVER given an elite goalie to coach, and still got consistently decent performances from guys.

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06-21-2010, 09:37 AM
  #86
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simple question and not taking salary into consideration. Could the flyers win with Huet in goal?

Along with Lemelin the training staff should have went. Never seen a team have so many hip,groin,labrum injuries as compared to other teams.

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06-21-2010, 09:44 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Then I'm not sure why you're engaging me on the trope I'm specifically noting, which is that Jeff Reese is a God and can fix any goalie we deem to sign.
I didn't engage you about that at all, beyond saying I didn't think he was hurting anything. I agree it's foolish to think he can turn anybody with a set of pads into a starting goalie. I commented on the quality of tender he was coaching during his tenure in Tampa. It was not good.

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'm not saying he's a terrible goalie coach, I'm simply questioning the borderline mythic status he's seemingly achieved... which the job he did in TB does not appear to support at all.
As you should. Like I said above, I just sought to put the cited evidence in context.

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06-21-2010, 09:51 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You think Nitty was better in Finland than he was in Philly? Biron's two years here were the best consecutive years of his career.

There are MASSIVE holes in the argument you're trying to make... which is the problem with the Lemelin angst.
I'd say Niitty was better in 2006 and went the wrong way from there.


Biron had a few good years in Buffalo too, he was supplanted by someone they knew as going to be better. Biron also isn't no longer here because of his abilities, it's because his agent was a moron.

The argument is that they get worse as time goes on, not that they were terrible to begin with. Biron and Niittymaki were both better their first full-season than their second. Reese is also a full-time coach whereas Lemelin was not. I'm not saying Reese is the next-coming either, but he's noticeably better than what we had. For a team who could never find a goalie, I don't know how this team saw it fit to keep the same goalie coach for 16 years.

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06-21-2010, 10:05 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I'd say Niitty was better in 2006 and went the wrong way from there.
Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.

'05-'06: 23-15-6 .895 2.97
'06-'07: 9-29-9 .894 3.38

I'm going to assume you meant the Olympic year. However, Nitty made that year when he was absolutely stellar in December (8-2-3 .920 2.38). He didn't post a single month over .900 for the rest of the season.

When Nitty came up he was terrible positionally, which led to all those ENG with him standing there watching from the other side of the crease, and he had a very poor glovehand. He was also, as he remains today, a bit of a streaky goalie that seems to slow down due to the grind of the season. That being said, his final two seasons here (and I'd assume in TB as well) he was much quieter laterally in the net which let him make more saves and cut down the easy goals for the opposition... and just been all around tighter.

I don't know what you were watching the last couple years if you think he was worse than he was back then... cuz he wasn't very good back then, just capable of putting together a hot run that buoyed his numbers.

Quote:
Biron had a few good years in Buffalo too, he was supplanted by someone they knew as going to be better. Biron also isn't no longer here because of his abilities, it's because his agent was a moron.
Yes... and played the best consecutive years of his career here under Lemelin.

Quote:
The argument is that they get worse as time goes on, not that they were terrible to begin with. Biron and Niittymaki were both better their first full-season than their second. Reese is also a full-time coach whereas Lemelin was not. I'm not saying Reese is the next-coming either, but he's noticeably better than what we had. For a team who could never find a goalie, I don't know how this team saw it fit to keep the same goalie coach for 16 years.
There is just no way this is true with Nitty.

And the reason that narrative is presented with regard to Biron is because he started off his first season here on fire and that setup the story for the entire season. That first month he posted 7-2-0 .948 1.78 (finished: 30-20-9 .918 2.59). The second year started out rough, before he got on track... and his big streak came in March 7-4-0 .938 2.31 (finished: 29-19-5 .915 2.76). In both seasons he was pretty much the same exact goalie. In fact, you could argue his 2nd season was the better of the two, as he was consistently better after October. January-March his SVPCT didn't drop below .920 in those monthly splits. November, December, and January of his first season were bleh.

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06-21-2010, 10:34 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.

'05-'06: 23-15-6 .895 2.97
'06-'07: 9-29-9 .894 3.38

I'm going to assume you meant the Olympic year. However, Nitty made that year when he was absolutely stellar in December (8-2-3 .920 2.38). He didn't post a single month over .900 for the rest of the season.
Yes, I'm talking about 05-06. He wore down in part because of the Olympics and because Hitchcock was retarded and made him play 11 road teams in a row when Esche got hurt.

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
When Nitty came up he was terrible positionally, which led to all those ENG with him standing there watching from the other side of the crease, and he had a very poor glovehand. He was also, as he remains today, a bit of a streaky goalie that seems to slow down due to the grind of the season. That being said, his final two seasons here (and I'd assume in TB as well) he was much quieter laterally in the net which let him make more saves and cut down the easy goals for the opposition... and just been all around tighter.

I don't know what you were watching the last couple years if you think he was worse than he was back then... cuz he wasn't very good back then, just capable of putting together a hot run that buoyed his numbers.
I was his biggest fan when he was here to the point where it nearly got me crucified.



Yes... and played the best consecutive years of his career here under Lemelin.



There is just no way this is true with Nitty.[/quote]

If it wasn't true with Niitty they wouldn't have bothered with getting Biron to begin with if there wasn't going to be a marked improvement.


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And the reason that narrative is presented with regard to Biron is because he started off his first season here on fire and that setup the story for the entire season. That first month he posted 7-2-0 .948 1.78 (finished: 30-20-9 .918 2.59). The second year started out rough, before he got on track... and his big streak came in March 7-4-0 .938 2.31 (finished: 29-19-5 .915 2.76). In both seasons he was pretty much the same exact goalie. In fact, you could argue his 2nd season was the better of the two, as he was consistently better after October. January-March his SVPCT didn't drop below .920 in those monthly splits. November, December, and January of his first season were bleh.
It's not like I'm saying Biron was God in the first year and ass in year 2, but I would say that his first season was better than the second, based a lot on stellar play early and later in the season.

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06-21-2010, 10:40 AM
  #91
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If we had Nitty, we'd have a cup.

He's a big game goalie. See win streak against Atlanta and his olympics. The guy shows up for big games.

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06-21-2010, 10:41 AM
  #92
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If we had Nitty, we'd have a cup.

He's a big game goalie. See win streak against Atlanta and his olympics. The guy shows up for big games.
The win streak vs. Atlanta is nice...but they haven't played many big games in their existence...

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06-21-2010, 10:42 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Yes, I'm talking about 05-06. He wore down in part because of the Olympics and because Hitchcock was retarded and made him play 11 road teams in a row when Esche got hurt.
Which just about any coach would do in that situation... (reference: Leighton, Michael... this year).

And his game fell off for us prior to the Olympics, so that's not really a good excuse.

Quote:
I was his biggest fan when he was here to the point where it nearly got me crucified.
That's nice and all... but he wasn't that good of a NHL goalie when he first came up, and had notable holes in his game. Some of which improved while he was here and that led to better performances.

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If it wasn't true with Niitty they wouldn't have bothered with getting Biron to begin with if there wasn't going to be a marked improvement.
Sorry man, this statement only makes logical sense if you want to ignore that Nitty had simply proven himself to not be good enough to be a starter... which he had.

Quote:
It's not like I'm saying Biron was God in the first year and ass in year 2, but I would say that his first season was better than the second, based a lot on stellar play early and later in the season.
Ah... if you're focusing on later in the season, then Biron's 2nd season was the better of the two (ignoring playoffs, and Biron played well against the Pens). Biron absolutely carried the Flyers in the spring last year when the team was playing like complete ass in front of him. If Biron hadn't stepped up his game, we would have missed the playoffs. He was very strong for the entire second half of the season.

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06-21-2010, 10:53 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
The win streak vs. Atlanta is nice...but they haven't played many big games in their existence...
I'm not talking Philly. I'm specifically talking Nitty. When it's a big game for him, he plays well. Game changing saves, which we saw none of this year. Nitty plays well when something is on the line. Olympics or his win streak against Atlanta is just an example.

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06-21-2010, 11:37 AM
  #95
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When Niittymaki was here, he would go thru one of his patented hot stretches where he would go 6-0, a couple of shutouts and a save percentage of .940 and say "he should be our starter"
i still shake my head over some of the stuff that went on when Niittymaki was here on this board. At times the guy could do no wrong. Gives up a bad goal and its someone elses fault. Anyone else its so and so sucks, put Nitty back in there.
Niittymaki is not a NHL starting goalie. He isnt what we need. He is just like everything else we had outside of Emery this past season. We have Boucher signed. Go get a legit NHL starter. this rotating of craptastic goalie ******** needs to end. I dont care how good your defense is. If you pay for backup goalies thats what you will get. even if you have 5 top 4 guys.

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06-21-2010, 11:43 AM
  #96
BWAVgal
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It's Eklund so I put no stock in what he says.

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06-21-2010, 12:03 PM
  #97
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I do not mind if we go after Nitty if he is 100% healthy. Is he?

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06-21-2010, 12:58 PM
  #98
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I wouldn't mind Nitty, just tell him he's a backup who just plays the majority of the games. Worst thing to do is to give him the nod "you're our nr1 guy" - he just seemed to melt every time he got promoted.

Still can remember those moments painfully well when Biron wasn't very solid in like three games in a row and Nitty was given the chance to take the job an run with it, he just melted.

One option is to give him glasses that make every team's jerseys look like Thrashers'.

If things just don't go too well, there's always the TDL. (Vokoun's on his last year of his contract, right?)

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06-21-2010, 01:14 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The other problem is that the "fix" for Leighton is a massive Catch-22. Leighton's problem before was that he would go out to challenge and lacked the athleticism/quickness to get back into position after he left a rebound. So, what do you do... move him back in the net a bit. Problem then is that shooters have a bit better angle, and it doesn't actually solve the rebound problem.
It's one of those step forward and then take a half-step back so you can take another step forward type of things. Leighton was antsy and overaggressive and lacked the mobility to get back in position, so by moving him back you prevent him from taking himself out of the play. Yes, he still leaves rebounds out, but at least he's in better position to move into the second opportunity than he otherwise would be. And sure, he's susceptible to a great first shot opportunity, but in the long run he's better off.

It's the type of situation where you need to calm him down, get him to focus on staying square, and make sure he's making first saves and then as many second saves as possible and gaining confidence. Once he has that down, Reese should be able to start getting him to achieve depth and better recovery over larger distances to make up for it.

If Reese is really a good coach, that's what I'm looking for to start next season assuming Leighton is still here in some capacity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yeah... about that, folks tend to be positive when they talk about people they work with.

And, has he been better than Lemelin? Lemelin got great goaltending out of Biron and Nitty the last couple of years. He got great seasons out of a collage of marginal goalies over the years. Lemelin didn't deserve the criticism he got around here, and Reese doesn't deserve the praise he's gotten of late either.
From what I remember hearing, Lemelin wasn't around often enough to really make a positive difference. Reese is better if only for the fact that he isn't an absentee coach half the time. A great coach doesn't do you any good if he can't be there to work with you regularly. Of course, this is just based on stuff I heard that he wasn't actually with the Flyers full-time so I can't be sure how much time he really committed, but based on the possibly faulty info I've been given, that's my take on Lemelin.

I agree that Reese has been wholly overrated, and the performance of the Biron/Niitty tandem has always been criminally underappreciated by people in Philly, but in Reese's first year he's gotten Leighton to play significantly better. While Biron and Niittymaki were both solid, I wouldn't say there was a real, appreciable improvement in their play under Lemelin that comes close to comparing to Leighton's year which makes Reese look like the better coach. We'll see if he continues building on it, though. I suspect it was just a perfect storm and Leighton has shown us his ceiling and will likely regress if handed a secure gig, or the starter's spot (in which case, I'll go a-murderin').

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06-21-2010, 01:19 PM
  #100
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Well, I see we're not serious about goaltending I guess.

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