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Jason Arnott to Devils for Matt Halischuk and a 2011 2nd

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06-20-2010, 07:44 PM
  #76
worstfaceoffmanever
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Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
Excellent job to move Jason Arnott. Frees up $4.5 million while bringing back both a decent prospect and pick. The most important aspect is that $4.5 million.

I still think the desire is to trade J.P. Dumont as well.

I also think that Poile will try to bring in a significant top line forward (Semin, Marleau, etc.) for another reason: he can't go cheap this year (read: a cap floor team) and expect either Weber or Suter to want to remain with Nashville. Moving Dumont would be a requirement (or a larger budget) to do so of course. Swapping $4 million players doesn't make much sense either in terms of improving the team (unless there's a significant age difference).

More later.
We can't afford Marleau unless we let Grebeshkov go, which, IMO, would be foolish after trading Hamhuis unless Poile thinks he can get a good defender for a great deal in free agency.

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06-20-2010, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
That's not exactly the case. He said ideally he could have gotten an extension.

Also, mgmt questioned his leadership to the public at the end of the season. It was very clear they were trying to push him out the door, which may have been the right move.

I think Arnott has been very easy going not to be a big deal out of anything.
According to the Q&A, he asked for an extension and when he was informed that wasn't in the cards, he then asked for a trade.

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06-21-2010, 12:17 AM
  #78
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The Rangers were in trade talks with the Predators regarding Jason Arnott before the center was dealt to New Jersey, Slap Shots has learned.

An impeccable source reports that Nashville turned to Lou Lamoriello once Sather refused to yield the rights to Wisconsin senior defenseman Ryan McDonagh, whom the Blueshirts are attempting to sign for the coming season.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz0rNMQSc8k

So Arnott wanted to go back to the East Coast one way or another, it seems. I'm also curious as to why Poile would ask for Ryan McDonagh on a team loaded with rearguards already. I like McDonagh, but at the rate Poile hoards young defenders, he's practically writing his ticket for the Fourth Circle of Hell...

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06-21-2010, 12:25 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz0rNMQSc8k

So Arnott wanted to go back to the East Coast one way or another, it seems. I'm also curious as to why Poile would ask for Ryan McDonagh on a team loaded with rearguards already. I like McDonagh, but at the rate Poile hoards young defenders, he's practically writing his ticket for the Fourth Circle of Hell...
Because the Rangers don't exactly have any forward prospects they'd be willing to move that we'd want or need. They do have a glut of D too and obviously McDonaugh was the guy Poile wanted as an asset. It would have definitely made one of our defensemen available to move for a forward elsewhere. Poile was trying to add an asset...

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06-21-2010, 01:00 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
According to the Q&A, he asked for an extension and when he was informed that wasn't in the cards, he then asked for a trade.
It was "mutual thing" [after Poile/Trotz questioned his leadership to the media, and told him they wanted going in a younger direction]. There's no doubt in my mind that he was forced out. Which again, may have been the right move.

Arnott didn't want to leave Nashville (as evidnce by his wanting an extension), but he was convinced to. I don't think Dumont will be as easily convinced. Also, he will be harder to move...

I think it was the right move to move Arnott, but only if we have some better plan than Wilson/Legwand as centers. An unproven guy who's never really played center in the NHL, and a guy who's scored over 20 goals once in 10 year (9 years on a scoringline).

I'm not sure how to look up this stat up, but assume we had one of the lowest forwards goals per game average in the NHL. We were 18th in overall goals per game, but had to have one of the highest goal totals from defensemen.


Last edited by dulzhok: 06-21-2010 at 01:07 AM.
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06-21-2010, 07:39 AM
  #81
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06-21-2010, 08:05 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
It was "mutual thing" [after Poile/Trotz questioned his leadership to the media, and told him they wanted going in a younger direction]. There's no doubt in my mind that he was forced out. Which again, may have been the right move.

Arnott didn't want to leave Nashville (as evidnce by his wanting an extension), but he was convinced to. I don't think Dumont will be as easily convinced. Also, he will be harder to move...

I think it was the right move to move Arnott, but only if we have some better plan than Wilson/Legwand as centers. An unproven guy who's never really played center in the NHL, and a guy who's scored over 20 goals once in 10 year (9 years on a scoringline).

I'm not sure how to look up this stat up, but assume we had one of the lowest forwards goals per game average in the NHL. We were 18th in overall goals per game, but had to have one of the highest goal totals from defensemen.
explain to me exactly how you "force" someone with a NMC and a year left on their contract to leave if they dont want to go?

Arnott could have hosed poile and either publicly demanded a trade or said "screw you im staying"

you can twist the logic however you want but the fact is that being told you wouldnt get a two year extension is not the same thing as being "forced out"

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06-21-2010, 11:51 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
explain to me exactly how you "force" someone with a NMC and a year left on their contract to leave if they dont want to go?

Arnott could have hosed poile and either publicly demanded a trade or said "screw you im staying"
You make it explicitly known that you don't want them on the team. Yes, he wasn't forced at gunpoint, and he could have stayed.

Dumont appears to be opting to stay, despite recent attempts to tell him he's not wanted.

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06-21-2010, 12:48 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
It was "mutual thing" [after Poile/Trotz questioned his leadership to the media, and told him they wanted going in a younger direction]. There's no doubt in my mind that he was forced out. Which again, may have been the right move.

Arnott didn't want to leave Nashville (as evidnce by his wanting an extension), but he was convinced to. I don't think Dumont will be as easily convinced. Also, he will be harder to move...

I think it was the right move to move Arnott, but only if we have some better plan than Wilson/Legwand as centers. An unproven guy who's never really played center in the NHL, and a guy who's scored over 20 goals once in 10 year (9 years on a scoringline).

I'm not sure how to look up this stat up, but assume we had one of the lowest forwards goals per game average in the NHL. We were 18th in overall goals per game, but had to have one of the highest goal totals from defensemen.
Arnott wanted a multiyear extension .... not feasible with Suter and Weber coming up for extensions and Arnott's concussion history ... especially on what would be a 35+ contract so the team would be stuck with it no matter what.

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06-21-2010, 01:08 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
You make it explicitly known that you don't want them on the team. Yes, he wasn't forced at gunpoint, and he could have stayed.

Dumont appears to be opting to stay, despite recent attempts to tell him he's not wanted.
wow, how many different ways can you spin this?

I will disagree that he was "explicitly" told he wasnt wanted... he was explicitly told he wasnt getting a multiyear extension. if you cant tell the difference between the two then i doub me saying this will make it suddenly clear, but nonetheless there it is...

Dumont has been explicitly told he will be on a lower line. What Dumont chooses to do now that he has that knowledge is up to him and we'll know come fall if he has decided to stay anyway..

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06-21-2010, 01:24 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
wow, how many different ways can you spin this?

I will disagree that he was "explicitly" told he wasnt wanted... he was explicitly told he wasnt getting a multiyear extension. if you cant tell the difference between the two then i doub me saying this will make it suddenly clear, but nonetheless there it is...
That wasn't the only thing that was said. Arnott also said the feeling was "mutual" (meaning the Preds wanted to trade him), and the team wanted to go in the younger direction. Trotz/Poile also told the world they thought Arnott being captain was a little out of his comfort zone, etc, etc. To me, that's plenty evidence that they wanted him to wavie his NTC, not Arnott coming to them requesting a trade.

Again, it may have been the right move. However, I thought it was poor taste to question his leadership to the media. Similar in Dumont's case, to tell the media that he wasn't going to get very much icetime... why can't this be done behind close doors?

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06-21-2010, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
That wasn't the only thing that was said. Arnott also said the feeling was "mutual" (meaning the Preds wanted to trade him), and the team wanted to go in the younger direction. Trotz/Poile also told the world they thought Arnott being captain was a little out of his comfort zone, etc, etc. To me, that's plenty evidence that they wanted him to wavie his NTC, not Arnott coming to them requesting a trade.

Again, it may have been the right move. However, I thought it was poor taste to question his leadership to the media. Similar in Dumont's case, to tell the media that he wasn't going to get very much icetime... why can't this be done behind close doors?
I think this is becoming an urban legend. All i ever remember Trotz saying about the captaincy is that he would reevaluate it like he did every year. You may be right that it was said publicly that Arnott may not be in his comfort zone with the c but i dont remember it.

As for Dumont, I think the stage was being set to allow him to ask for a trade without looking like a whiner or a problem child. will allow poile to market him without other GM's wondering why we are so anxious to dump him if nothing is said publicly..

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06-21-2010, 01:45 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
It was "mutual thing" [after Poile/Trotz questioned his leadership to the media, and told him they wanted going in a younger direction]. There's no doubt in my mind that he was forced out. Which again, may have been the right move.

Arnott didn't want to leave Nashville (as evidnce by his wanting an extension), but he was convinced to. I don't think Dumont will be as easily convinced. Also, he will be harder to move...

I think it was the right move to move Arnott, but only if we have some better plan than Wilson/Legwand as centers. An unproven guy who's never really played center in the NHL, and a guy who's scored over 20 goals once in 10 year (9 years on a scoringline).

I'm not sure how to look up this stat up, but assume we had one of the lowest forwards goals per game average in the NHL. We were 18th in overall goals per game, but had to have one of the highest goal totals from defensemen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
That wasn't the only thing that was said. Arnott also said the feeling was "mutual" (meaning the Preds wanted to trade him), and the team wanted to go in the younger direction. Trotz/Poile also told the world they thought Arnott being captain was a little out of his comfort zone, etc, etc. To me, that's plenty evidence that they wanted him to wavie his NTC, not Arnott coming to them requesting a trade.

Again, it may have been the right move. However, I thought it was poor taste to question his leadership to the media. Similar in Dumont's case, to tell the media that he wasn't going to get very much icetime... why can't this be done behind close doors?
Arnott was less interested in staying in Nashville than getting a contract extension as is evidenced by him ultimately agreeing to get traded and informing us that an extension was part of the reason for moving on. Don't confuse wanting more money/years for wanting to stay with a particular team . It's all about his personal situation of being an aging vet, a step slow, diminishing skills, eggshell noggin and all that----and I don't blame him for trying because we all see he's close to the end.

Your second point I strongly disagree with because it was about time that the organization call him out (as well as some of the other longer term guys) instead of the regular way they do business around Nashville (i.e., call out the rookie for one mistake, bench him or cut his quality ice time, while the vet makes three mistakes and doesn't get a whisper mentioned publicly.)

Whatever the combination of factors that made this happen, I guess really doesn't matter too much in the end. The only important thing is who replaces Arnott's spot and what the Preds do with the money.

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06-21-2010, 01:48 PM
  #89
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I think this is becoming an urban legend. All i ever remember Trotz saying about the captaincy is that he would reevaluate it like he did every year. You may be right that it was said publicly that Arnott may not be in his comfort zone with the c but i dont remember it.

As for Dumont, I think the stage was being set to allow him to ask for a trade without looking like a whiner or a problem child. will allow poile to market him without other GM's wondering why we are so anxious to dump him if nothing is said publicly..
Found this quote inside another post....from post-season press conf?

“It probably wasn’t exactly something … that came naturally to [Arnott], but he’s grown in that area and worked hard at doing the right things more often,” the coach said. “The last two years, he’s done a decent job.”

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06-21-2010, 01:50 PM
  #90
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I don't think the Predators have done anything wrong.

Trotz indicates that Arnott is not necessarily in his comfort zone as captain. I agree.

Poile tells Arnott he won't necessarily give him an extension. (A reasonable decision.) And Arnott tells Poile where he'd be willing to go if he could. (Reasonable people agree.)

Trotz tells Dumont he's going to get less ice time and be on a lower line. I agree based upon his performance this year. I still think that if Dumont returns to his former self that Trotz would give him the additional time and line. Why wouldn't he? Dumont can decide to step it up and, if he doesn't, knows where he will be playing.

Don't see how any of this is unreasonable and businesslike. What am I missing that's getting everyone (okay, some) in such an uproar?

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06-21-2010, 02:20 PM
  #91
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I don't think the Predators have done anything wrong.

Trotz indicates that Arnott is not necessarily in his comfort zone as captain. I agree.

Poile tells Arnott he won't necessarily give him an extension. (A reasonable decision.) And Arnott tells Poile where he'd be willing to go if he could. (Reasonable people agree.)

Trotz tells Dumont he's going to get less ice time and be on a lower line. I agree based upon his performance this year. I still think that if Dumont returns to his former self that Trotz would give him the additional time and line. Why wouldn't he? Dumont can decide to step it up and, if he doesn't, knows where he will be playing.

Don't see how any of this is unreasonable and businesslike. What am I missing that's getting everyone (okay, some) in such an uproar?
I agree with everything you said. I also think that Poile and Arnott handled this trade evaluation/situation like pros. Arnott gave Poile where he wanted to go and Poile obliged him allowing Poile to maximize what he could in a trade. I give kudos to both of them for this.

As far as what was said in the paper about Arnott and Dumont, that is nothing. Go to any big market and see what is said and written about their players on a daily basis. These guys have it easy here. The vets hardly ever get called out in the papers by the staff or ownership. Trying playing for George Steinbrenner in the last 70's thru the 80's and then tell me what was so wrong about what was said about Arnott and Dumont.

Both guys handled it well and took it like men and for that I applaud them. I'm glad we made the move and between Wilson and Legwand going back to a top 6 roll they should be able to fill the scoring void.

Remember, we all questioned who was going to score for us last year and Hornqvist put up 30, I have a funny feeling Wilson is going to do just fine.

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06-21-2010, 03:17 PM
  #92
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Remember, we all questioned who was going to score for us last year and Hornqvist put up 30, I have a funny feeling Wilson is going to do just fine.
I'm not going to count out Dumont just yet. He might just surprise us.

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06-21-2010, 03:44 PM
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I'm not going to count out Dumont just yet. He might just surprise us.
This.

He had an off year, let's see if he can bounce back, especially now that Arnott is gone.

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06-21-2010, 03:48 PM
  #94
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i like the fact that legwand will have no excuse not to have a 50 point season if he is in a top six role

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06-21-2010, 05:41 PM
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i like the fact that legwand will have no excuse not to have a 50 point season if he is in a top six role
Please correct me if I'm wrong but when has Leggy EVER made an excuse about any of this? Even though he was called out playing with Wardo and hands-of-stone-Smithson about not scoring, he's been nothing but professional and, as someone pointed out - clearly our best skater against Chicago in the POs.

I'd love to see another line like 9-10-11 and see what kinda' numbers he could put up. I still think - even if we did move Dumont up to a top 6 spot - we've not quite got the right pieces to maximize everyone's skills. Maybe a 10-11-26 line with JP on the top line, but I doubt that's where Trotz is going, given the discussion that JP is going to see 3rd line mins. We're short a finisher - plain and simple. Horny cleans up nicely, and Erat has been effective when hot, but not consistent.

Given Poile hedged in that interview about picking someone up, be interesting to see if we're gonna' play JP in a top 6 role (after the meeting wtih Trotz that said not) or Wardo stays there or we come up with some other wing or center.

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06-21-2010, 05:51 PM
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Please correct me if I'm wrong but when has Leggy EVER made an excuse about any of this? Even though he was called out playing with Wardo and hands-of-stone-Smithson about not scoring, he's been nothing but professional and, as someone pointed out - clearly our best skater against Chicago in the POs.

I'd love to see another line like 9-10-11 and see what kinda' numbers he could put up. I still think - even if we did move Dumont up to a top 6 spot - we've not quite got the right pieces to maximize everyone's skills. Maybe a 10-11-26 line with JP on the top line, but I doubt that's where Trotz is going, given the discussion that JP is going to see 3rd line mins. We're short a finisher - plain and simple. Horny cleans up nicely, and Erat has been effective when hot, but not consistent.

Given Poile hedged in that interview about picking someone up, be interesting to see if we're gonna' play JP in a top 6 role (after the meeting wtih Trotz that said not) or Wardo stays there or we come up with some other wing or center.
I just dont think there is any way we can leave legwand on a shutdown line next year. Goc is a stretch as a third line center much less a second...

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06-21-2010, 06:05 PM
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I just dont think there is any way we can leave legwand on a shutdown line next year. Goc is a stretch as a third line center much less a second...
I think Goc is a good match as a third line center. I prefer him over Smithson or Spaling at this point on the third line.

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06-21-2010, 06:17 PM
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Well, our Centers didn't exactly light the world on fire offensively last year - 46, 38, and 30 points. While I'm hopeful Wilson can step in and up that result if Goc is playing with less talented linemates this year it would seem he'd be hard-pressed to put up 30 again. Balance helped us tremendously last year, and it would appear we're gonna' need that again, although Leggy around 55 points sure would help. Or Peks with a GAA under 2.

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06-21-2010, 06:48 PM
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The Press conference about the trade of Arnott.

Arnott said that he wanted to stay with an extention

what Arnott really meant: I got this gig down pat and if I can get my extention I can play for another two years and only play hard when I have to.

Poile said that they couldn't do that considering the financial restraints on the team and they wanted to go with younger players

what Poile really meant: Are you freaking kidding me you want an extention so that you can be hurt and play soft and not score in the playoffs and your the captain for two more years ...uh..no!!

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06-21-2010, 06:53 PM
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Good luck with Halischuk, he didn't have much of a chance under Lemaire last year. Spent most of his time on a line with Jay Pandolfo and Rod Pelley (shudder). His first (and so far only) NHL was about as nice as one could hope though. If Halischuk puts on some more muscle, I don't think a 20 goal season in the near future would be too shocking to me.

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