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06-21-2010, 02:24 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by JSTAFF View Post
I dont think hes going to get over 4 million. I can see him at 3.5 million for 3 years.
I just can't see him signing for that little guaranteed money. He has Holmgren by the short and curlies. If 3 years 3.5M is what is on the table from the Flyers, and I'm his agent, I say, "We'll keep that in mind" as they head towards the open market.

I mean, Jeff Finger got 4 years and 3.5M.

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06-21-2010, 02:27 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I mean, Matt Carle had a rebound year to 35 pts this year, and Pronger had a LOT to do with him getting up to that point total.
Yeah and it was also Carle's first year that he actually played with a competent defenseman. Coburn has played with guys like Derian Hatcher, Jason Smith and Kimmo Timonen and he continually crapped the bed for two years. Coburn has shown he just doesn't get it mentally when it comes to the game. And before anyone says he had a good playoff run, he also had a good playoff run in 07-08. I'm not convinced the mental midget has what it takes to keep up his performance. I'd rather keep Carle because at least he's shown some consistency in his game.

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06-21-2010, 02:28 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I just can't see him signing for that little guaranteed money. He has Holmgren by the short and curlies. If 3 years 3.5M is what is on the table from the Flyers, and I'm his agent, I say, "We'll keep that in mind" as they head towards the open market.

I mean, Jeff Finger got 4 years and 3.5M.
he is going to get > 4mm with a full nmc without a doubt. Just a matter of how long. I owuld assume at leats 5/6 years. He isnt worth that deal imo but i guess that is the going rate.

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06-21-2010, 02:31 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I just can't see him signing for that little guaranteed money. He has Holmgren by the short and curlies. If 3 years 3.5M is what is on the table from the Flyers, and I'm his agent, I say, "We'll keep that in mind" as they head towards the open market.

I mean, Jeff Finger got 4 years and 3.5M.
I would think Hamhuis comes in somewhere between/around Beauchemin and Komisarek who got 3 years 3.8 and 5 years 4.5. I think most people would agree Komisarek got a bit more than he should have (perhaps because he signed with a bad team?). The problem is, Hamhuis could very well be the guy that ends up getting a little more than he should, just like Komisarek.

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06-21-2010, 02:34 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I would think Hamhuis comes in somewhere between/around Beauchemin and Komisarek who got 3 years 3.8 and 5 years 4.5. I think most people would agree Komisarek got a bit more than he should have (perhaps because he signed with a bad team?). The problem is, Hamhuis could very well be the guy that ends up getting a little more than he should, just like Komisarek.
Well, what makes it worse is that Holmgren basically HAS TO sign him at this point. There's the perceived sunken cost (Parent and the PR), which gives Hamhuis some good leverage.

I'll be very happy with anything 4.25M and less...

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06-21-2010, 02:40 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, what makes it worse is that Holmgren basically HAS TO sign him at this point. There's the perceived sunken cost (Parent and the PR), which gives Hamhuis some good leverage.

I'll be very happy with anything 4.25M and less...
I'm starting to think that as well.

I'm almost to the point where I might offer him 7 years (taking him to age 34, and subsequently 1 more contract before he is susceptible to the over 35 rules) and hope to get him at 3.8 or less. I would NOT give a NMC or NTC with that deal though.

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06-21-2010, 02:44 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSTAFF View Post
I dont think hes going to get over 4 million. I can see him at 3.5 million for 3 years.
That would be amazing but highly unlikely IMO. I'm thinking something in the range of 4 years 18 million(4.5 per) or 5 years 22 million(4.4 per) or 6 years 25.5 million (4.25 per) is what will happen.

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06-21-2010, 02:48 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I'm starting to think that as well.

I'm almost to the point where I might offer him 7 years (taking him to age 34, and subsequently 1 more contract before he is susceptible to the over 35 rules) and hope to get him at 3.8 or less. I would NOT give a NMC or NTC with that deal though.
I'm fine with limited NTCs and a non-waive clause. It's just the full NTCs that are killer.

I also would like to stay away from one of those really long contracts... I just think you need to maintain some flexibility, and we have a lot of long contracts already on the books, or likely coming in the near future.

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06-21-2010, 03:12 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Holmgren spoke personally with Hamhuis on Saturday after the deal became official.

“When I talked to Dan on Saturday I told him [to] just think about becoming a Philadelphia Flyer over the weekend. Try to think some things through. Obviously, he’s looking at unrestricted free agency on July 1, and that’s attractive to a lot of guys. You don’t get that opportunity [very often].

“He’s a guy that would create a lot of interest if he gets to that point, so I’ll talk to his agent in the next day or two and we’ll see what we can do.”

With the NHL’s salary cap reportedly going up approximately 2 million dollars next season, Holmgren’s goal is to get a deal for Hamhuis done, as well as keep restricted free agent Braydon Coburn.

“We’ll see how it all fits in,” said the general manager. “I plan on talking to Braydon’s agent in the next couple days and see where that goes. Our goal is to try to have them both signed.”
http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=532190

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06-21-2010, 03:14 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, what makes it worse is that Holmgren basically HAS TO sign him at this point. There's the perceived sunken cost (Parent and the PR), which gives Hamhuis some good leverage.

I'll be very happy with anything 4.25M and less...
Yeah, the sunk cost is something that unforuntately Homer won't be looking at from an economic perspective. If Hamhuis and his agent will only accept a contract that is higher than what Homer thinks he'd make on the open market, he should wait and bid later; however, he'll take the sunk cost incorrectly into account. Last time we traded for rights were for Hartnell and Timonen, though. Timonen's contract was a decent one, but I think playing for a winner was more important at the stage of his career than getting $$$ on the open market. On the other hand, we overpaid for Hartnell, maybe because of the aforementioned factor.

I'd be very pleased with a short term deal under 4.25 as well (4 years or less), or if the deal must be longer, something under 4.

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06-21-2010, 03:15 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
It's taking too long...

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06-21-2010, 03:18 PM
  #112
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If Hamhuis doesn't sign, should Homer kill himself?

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06-21-2010, 03:25 PM
  #113
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The Judeo Christian calendar starts with AD (after death of Christ).

Philly defense HAS to think of AP (after Pronger). Remmeber both Prongs and Timo are ageing.

A good young signed core of Coburn, Carle and Hamuis ...to learn fron Prongs and Timo for a few years and improve their play steadily .. and then take on their mantle after they retire .... is a good strategy.

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06-21-2010, 03:27 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rban View Post
The Judeo Christian calendar starts with AD (after death of Christ).

Philly defense HAS to think of AP (after Pronger). Remmeber both Prongs and Timo are ageing.

A good young signed core of Coburn, Carle and Hamuis ...to learn fron Prongs and Timo for a few years and improve their play steadily .. and then take on their mantle after they retire .... is a good strategy.
You're looking at least 3 years of Pronger and Kimmo here. Pronger is then signed for 4 more after that, and hopefully he is playing because we are stuck with the cap hit for the next 7 years regardless.

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06-21-2010, 03:29 PM
  #115
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Bob McKenzie thinks he will get atleast 4.5M

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06-21-2010, 03:53 PM
  #116
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Boils down to what Hamhuis wants really, if he gets 4.5 I think you have to move Carle or Coburn (and I would move Coburn).

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06-21-2010, 04:11 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rban View Post
The Judeo Christian calendar starts with AD (after death of Christ).

Philly defense HAS to think of AP (after Pronger). Remmeber both Prongs and Timo are ageing.

A good young signed core of Coburn, Carle and Hamuis ...to learn fron Prongs and Timo for a few years and improve their play steadily .. and then take on their mantle after they retire .... is a good strategy.
Technically AD means "Anno Domini," year 1 being the supposed birth year. Nice try with the analogy though.

Right now the future of the d-corps is not the biggest issue, 1 year after we dealt for Pronger. Homer does and should have the "win now" mentality with every facet of this team.

As a side note, Pronger will definitely decline in effectiveness over the course of his contract, however after seeing him play every day for a year, I don't think we'll see him fall off a cliff in terms of steadiness defensively. I can't help but think about defensemen in the past who have played until their mid-40s. It's no doubt a tougher thing in the new NHL, but my point is that we'll never see Pronger turn into a 3rd-pairing guy. As for Kimmo, the regression might be more dramatic. He's a smart player, but does rely on some of his quickness and athletic ability, but there are only 3 years remaining on his contract at this point.

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06-21-2010, 04:13 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slapshot_11 View Post
Bob McKenzie thinks he will get atleast 4.5M
If that's the case, I think we should shop both Carcillo/Powe and Carle/Coburn (depending on how much Coburn wants) for something to make up the difference.

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06-21-2010, 04:17 PM
  #119
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wouldnt be surprised if he signs one of those front loaded 6/7 year deals. PAy him like 7mm the first year and so on lowering the actually dollars paid out.

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06-21-2010, 04:26 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Slapshot_11 View Post
Bob McKenzie thinks he will get atleast 4.5M
Wow really? I mean he is good but is he that good?

In that case I'd sign him and trade him? Is it possible?

I would move Carle if there is a market for him. Defensmen that makes 3.5M a year and does not really PK is not something I would be very interested in.

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06-21-2010, 04:27 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rban View Post
The Judeo Christian calendar starts with AD (after death of Christ).

Philly defense HAS to think of AP (after Pronger). Remmeber both Prongs and Timo are ageing.

A good young signed core of Coburn, Carle and Hamuis ...to learn fron Prongs and Timo for a few years and improve their play steadily .. and then take on their mantle after they retire .... is a good strategy.
As noted above, Pronger's end is too far off for it to be a major concern. If Pronger begins to fail we're basically *ed because of the contract he now possesses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
If that's the case, I think we should shop both Carcillo/Powe and Carle/Coburn (depending on how much Coburn wants) for something to make up the difference.
Carcillo and Powe won't make enough to make much of a difference (particularly Powe, who should be quite cheap).

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
wouldnt be surprised if he signs one of those front loaded 6/7 year deals. PAy him like 7mm the first year and so on lowering the actually dollars paid out.
I'm sure he and his agent would be happy to, but at some point we need to start getting some better contractual flexibility into this roster. You figure both Carter and Giroux are candidates for such deals in the near future, and then whatever happens with JVR.

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06-21-2010, 04:28 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post


I'm sure he and his agent would be happy to, but at some point we need to start getting some better contractual flexibility into this roster. You figure both Carter and Giroux are candidates for such deals in the near future, and then whatever happens with JVR.
i agree but you know hsooter doesnt think that far ahead. He will overpay imo no doubt.

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06-21-2010, 04:42 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
If Hamhuis doesn't sign, should Homer kill himself?
If he doesn't, he better come up with a better catch phrase for next year than "What can you do?"

Might I recommend this Homer?


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06-21-2010, 05:05 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, what makes it worse is that Holmgren basically HAS TO sign him at this point. There's the perceived sunken cost (Parent and the PR), which gives Hamhuis some good leverage.

I'll be very happy with anything 4.25M and less...
That is similiar to the Timinon and Haartnell deal....

Timinon 2.47mil to 6.3(2.55% increase).and hartnel from 1 mil to 4.2(400% increase)

Overpayment on those guys at the time but key guys....and probably worth it......

Hamhuis cap hit 2mil increase ????????

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06-21-2010, 05:18 PM
  #125
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If he doesn't sign here, Holmgren should be fired.

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