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Jason Spezza Trade Talk

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Old
06-21-2010, 01:42 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
And the talent drain in Canada continues...

Since Bettman took over, Canada has seen it's teams lose dozens of proven stars ot US teams. (Don't kid yourselves, Canada. Spezza is moving down south.) Highlighted recently by Pronger and Heatley, of course, since they were both locked up to nice contracts at the time. Edmonton and Calgary oversaw their teams turn from powerhouses into cinderellas. Montreal lost the best goaltender of all time to a team moved to the US just when they were starting to look good. And now Ottawa is the latest Canadian team to have been pillaged of virtually all their drafted talent.

The best UFA to come up to Canada in the meantime: Alex Mogilny. Although he didn't do much in TO either. Other names: Messier (huge fail), Jason Blake (yuck), Thomas, Nieuwendyk, Allison and all those other washed-up vets that TO signed before the cap came into effect.

Most of what comes back up to Canada is used, washed-up and expensive, leaving all the young stars to play in the US in order to promote the game to the 'new fans' in the US that don't exist. It's a pattern that will continue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
It's actually not enough going to Ottawa. Spezza is only 26 and has hit 90 points twice and got pretty close another season with 87. But then again this is HFboards where draft picks > proven talent.

This is coming from a Leafs fan too..
Aside from Boston, those teams are rebuilding. You don't trade draft picks for someone already making 7 mill a season. You do what LA did, you sign veterans, then trade them for picks and prospect making your prospect pool deeper. Then, when your team is actually good enough, you can deal some of those prospect for a veteran to help you in your playoff push. It would take about 5, or so years. By then, Spezza is an up and coming UFA. You've just paid a premium for a guy who helps you not finish last, but not in the playoffs. Now, your rebuild will take a bit longer and this guy will be gone.

That is why you don't trade for someone like Spezza when your team is rebuilding.

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Old
06-21-2010, 01:43 PM
  #77
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I guess I keep accidentally multi-quoting. Not sure why TOMapleLaughs post was quoted.

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06-21-2010, 01:43 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Whats he supposed to say? "We'll take anything really. Offer us something and if we don't hear something better by the end of the day we'll take it"

He's doing his job. Heatley wasn't going to be traded either, remember? Phaneuf wasn't going to be traded and was part of the foundation of Calgarys future. At least that's what we heard from Sutter, only to see Dion traded the next day for peanuts. Just like Heater.

I just love seeing guys on the internet saying "The first overall +++, and if you don't like it, you won't get him!"
Oh really? You guys were saying the same thing last year. So were other teams when their star players were moved. Spezza has been compared to Thornton in this thread. What exactly did Boston get back for him again? What about Halak? He was supposed to be worth the world, and they got a promising prospect and decent prospect in return.

You don't get equal value when trading a star player anymore. If you'd like, tell me the last star player traded for a decent return. If you're able to, I'll have 5 trades where the return was garbage for every one you can name in the last few years.

No one can say for sure if Spezza will be traded, but if he is, you guys are going to get fleeced. Not the first overall. Something similar to Penner + Cogliano. Smid would not be a part of the deal anymore.
I swear people just dont get trading star players is never equal value

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06-21-2010, 01:43 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
This is why your opinion is so ridiculous. Spezza had like 25 less turnovers that Crosby. Crosby is a 80 point scorer- 110pts minus the 30 pucks he puts in his own net.
That's what you're saying.

If I said that about Crosby people would literally flame me to near death and I'd probably have 15-20 people call me retarded per page. You said it about Spezza. Their turn overs are no different. Both end with a puck on the other teams stick. Crosby just does it more often.

I love how every ignorant post so far has been totally shot down by myself and others, yet the same people will spread the same views next Spezza thread because they need something to justify their feelings on his value that has basically been warped by negative media.
This is the problem with people that look at stats, but don't actually watch hockey or understand hockey systems.

Your comment assumes that the sole measure of forward's defensive ability is the number of times he turns the puck over. Since defense is played when you don't have the puck (no matter where you are on the ice), I'm not exactly sure how you can judge defensive capability using a stat that requires a player to have the puck.

Spezza is a defensive liability from a positional standpoint.

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Old
06-21-2010, 01:43 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Manny View Post
Done.

Not for Spezza alone. Wed want a pick or prospect coming with him.

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Old
06-21-2010, 01:45 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Whats he supposed to say? "We'll take anything really. Offer us something and if we don't hear something better by the end of the day we'll take it"

He's doing his job. Heatley wasn't going to be traded either, remember? Phaneuf wasn't going to be traded and was part of the foundation of Calgarys future. At least that's what we heard from Sutter, only to see Dion traded the next day for peanuts. Just like Heater.

I just love seeing guys on the internet saying "The first overall +++, and if you don't like it, you won't get him!"
Oh really? You guys were saying the same thing last year. So were other teams when their star players were moved. Spezza has been compared to Thornton in this thread. What exactly did Boston get back for him again? What about Halak? He was supposed to be worth the world, and they got a promising prospect and decent prospect in return.

You don't get equal value when trading a star player anymore. If you'd like, tell me the last star player traded for a decent return. If you're able to, I'll have 5 trades where the return was garbage for every one you can name in the last few years.

No one can say for sure if Spezza will be traded, but if he is, you guys are going to get fleeced. Not the first overall. Something similar to Penner + Cogliano. Smid would not be a part of the deal anymore.
As an Ottawa fan I see what you are saying and for the most part I agree with you.

That being said the answer is simple: Ottawa doesn't need to trade Spezza, 90% of fans (recent poll) don't want to trade Spezza, and Spezza hasn't demanded a trade.

Really no need at all to let him go, so by all means hold on to Cogliano and Penner. We are a worse team if we make that trade: so we won't make it.

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Old
06-21-2010, 01:48 PM
  #82
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I'd be very interested from a Sharks' perspective even with Joe Thornton off the table for such discussions. I'd start with Joe Pavelski, Douglas Murray, and our 1st and go from there if there's interest from Ottawa's side.

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06-21-2010, 01:49 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensZilla View Post
Yeah, looks like Spezza's not getting traded unless someone really steps up their offer and overpays. Maybe something like:

From Edmonton: 1st overall +
From Boston: 2nd overall +
From Florida: 3rd overall, Horton, +
From Columbus: 4th overall, Brassard, +
I think you're going to be disappointed if that is your expectation. Spezza's contract is a huge challenge for a lot of teams to take on. That is going to restrict the return. I think a top pick is out of the question since a team would have that player for several years cheap, compared to Spezza, and if they develop like some of the recent top picks, may not be far off on performance. I don't see an exchange of that magnitude happening for Spezza.

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06-21-2010, 01:50 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
As an Ottawa fan I see what you are saying and for the most part I agree with you.

That being said the answer is simple: Ottawa doesn't need to trade Spezza, 90% of fans (recent poll) don't want to trade Spezza, and Spezza hasn't demanded a trade.

Really no need at all to let him go, so by all means hold on to Cogliano and Penner. We are a worse team if we make that trade: so we won't make it.
I agree, you don't trade Spezza unless you have to. You won't get an equal value return so what is the point? No one wants to make a trade that will make them a worse team.

With that being said, these days it seems like where there's smoke, there's fire. No one knew the full extent of Heater wanting out, and it was covered up. I know Spezza started getting pissed off with the organization after Razor was let go. So who know what was said behind closed doors.

Bottom line is, yea, if you don't have to trade him, of course you don't. Hes a top center in this league. But if you do have to trade him, be realistic, although it seems like you already are. Just too bad there are others who seem to think teams will be lining up to throw top young talent and high draft picks at you.

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Old
06-21-2010, 01:50 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayersCoach View Post
This is the problem with people that look at stats, but don't actually watch hockey or understand hockey systems.

Your comment assumes that the sole measure of forward's defensive ability is the number of times he turns the puck over. Since defense is played when you don't have the puck (no matter where you are on the ice), I'm not exactly sure how you can judge defensive capability using a stat that requires a player to have the puck.

Spezza is a defensive liability from a positional standpoint.
Spezza is not a defensive liablity. That's ridiculous.

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Old
06-21-2010, 01:52 PM
  #86
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Spezza asked for a trade,he will be gone before season opener.All this talk by Murray and Spezza is to let other teams know he is on the market and to try not to lower his value like what happened to Heatley.

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Old
06-21-2010, 01:55 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post
Don't let Columbus fans see that.
Too late. We've already made preparations to smear him with pitch and set him aflame.

REMEMBER: friends don't let friends make trade proposals asking for Voracek.

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06-21-2010, 01:56 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by cap10bfl View Post
it was our best line, when kovy posted 85 pts and andrei scored 27 goals, it was pleks career year at the time with 69 pts, but now he got 70 this year so,

like i said, my proposal seems fair, sens obviously lose a great center, but they get 2 young top 6 players that have instant chemistry with kovalev, a head-case but with great potential in sergei, and 2 first rounders...

its a better deal than what boston gor for kessel at the time... we all knew the leafs would suck but maybe not that crappy
I was just curious, I remember that being a legit line a couple seasons back. Although it sounds good, Kovy is on the decline, and Andrei hasn't lived up to his expectations after that season (However, there were some signs of him regaining his mojo at times this season). I like your offer, it's more enticing than most, because we are getting a #1 center in return...which is good, because most offers for Spezza just result in a huge clack hole in the middle of the 1st line.

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06-21-2010, 02:13 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayersCoach View Post
This is the problem with people that look at stats, but don't actually watch hockey or understand hockey systems.

Your comment assumes that the sole measure of forward's defensive ability is the number of times he turns the puck over. Since defense is played when you don't have the puck (no matter where you are on the ice), I'm not exactly sure how you can judge defensive capability using a stat that requires a player to have the puck.

Spezza is a defensive liability from a positional standpoint.
I watch at least 60 Senators games a season, and I'm saying you're wrong. Sure, he's not great but in no way is he a liability.

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06-21-2010, 02:14 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
And the talent drain in Canada continues...

Since Bettman took over, Canada has seen it's teams lose dozens of proven stars ot US teams. (Don't kid yourselves, Canada. Spezza is moving down south.) Highlighted recently by Pronger and Heatley, of course, since they were both locked up to nice contracts at the time. Edmonton and Calgary oversaw their teams turn from powerhouses into cinderellas. Montreal lost the best goaltender of all time to a team moved to the US just when they were starting to look good. And now Ottawa is the latest Canadian team to have been pillaged of virtually all their drafted talent.

The best UFA to come up to Canada in the meantime: Alex Mogilny. Although he didn't do much in TO either. Other names: Messier (huge fail), Jason Blake (yuck), Thomas, Nieuwendyk, Allison and all those other washed-up vets that TO signed before the cap came into effect.

Most of what comes back up to Canada is used, washed-up and expensive, leaving all the young stars to play in the US in order to promote the game to the 'new fans' in the US that don't exist. It's a pattern that will continue.

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Old
06-21-2010, 02:21 PM
  #91
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Sedins, Luongo, Kipper, Iginla, Markov all re-signed.

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06-21-2010, 02:28 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayersCoach View Post
This is the problem with people that look at stats, but don't actually watch hockey or understand hockey systems.

Your comment assumes that the sole measure of forward's defensive ability is the number of times he turns the puck over. Since defense is played when you don't have the puck (no matter where you are on the ice), I'm not exactly sure how you can judge defensive capability using a stat that requires a player to have the puck.

Spezza is a defensive liability from a positional standpoint.
Oh wow you were talking about him as a defensive liability? I didn't refer to that because it's even less informed than him being a so-called turnover machine. I've probably seen 400+ of Spezza's almost 500 games. He started off BAD defensively, but since then and ESPECIALLY last year he made huge strides defensively. I was absolutely amazed at his defensive strides. There were points last year where he was above average defensively with no doubt in my mind. There were times where he was below average, but he was never a liability. I can't think of more than 1 or 2 times all year where he caused a goal due to bad defensive coverage.

This is the problem with people who don't look at stats and don't actually watch hockey or understand hockey systems.

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06-21-2010, 02:29 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by SensFanDan View Post
I'd rather have Thornton, to be honest. He seems MUCH more serious and focused on his game. Spezza...ehhh...seems like a bit of a party/good-time guy, got some growing up to do. Thornton was able to make Cheechoo into a 50 goal guy, which Spezza was not able to...
christ, and do you really wonder why nobody takes you seriously on your own board?
aside from your personal opinion on the personalities you know nothing about and given what has been printed about those personalities it can only be assumed you must be thinking of Scott Thornton.
Even more laughable is your throw away comment about Thornton turning Cheechoo into a 50 goal scorer and Spezza notbeing able to do that.
Are you really that astonishingly dense?
How about a relevant comparison: Spezza made Dany Heatley a 2 time 50 goal scorer something he never hit before or after his time with Spezza. What did he have this year 40 goals? with a stacked Sharks team?
So really its Thornton who fails to live up to the comparable, certainly not Spezza.

Quote:
If you talk about playoffs, that's fine but remember that we had an excellent puck-moving defense, Alfredsson on a mission and a weakish Eastern field at the time. Meanwhile in the West...San Jose has had to deal with Detroit, Anaheim, Detroit, Chicago, Vancouver...quite tough competition.
riiiiiight, and that also explains JT's playoff no shows in Boston i guess.
i wont even get into your specious arguments about east west and puck moving defences.

Quote:
With Thornton only have one year left on his deal and with a fresh start, he'll be VERY motivated to perform. I would welcome him with open arms here in Ottawa. Thornton's speech patterns are also an advantage over Spezza's...
So basically you are saying that Thornton is only worthwhile in a contract year, great, sounds perfect.
i dont personally think that and would love to have Spezza, Thornton and Fisher down the middle.

Quote:
Nothing wrong with either of these players that a change of scenery couldn't fix.
there is nothing wrong with Spezza that requires a scenery change in the first place.
if a team wants to overpay to fulfill a need then fine, how can ottawa not listen.

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Old
06-21-2010, 02:31 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Go Habs Go View Post
You think something less then the 1st overall + more is an underpayment? 1st overall alone is an overpayment
wow. only on hf.

hall as a scoring winger at 18 is better than a legit no 1 center?

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06-21-2010, 02:46 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
From what I've read, it would take a hell of an offer.
Funny, I recall you saying that exact same thing last year with Dany Heatley...

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Old
06-21-2010, 02:50 PM
  #96
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Does Spezza have a NTC?

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06-21-2010, 02:51 PM
  #97
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Funny, I recall you saying that exact same thing last year with Dany Heatley...
To be fair, that was one hell of an offer...for San Jose.

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06-21-2010, 02:59 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensFanDan View Post
I'd rather have Thornton, to be honest. He seems MUCH more serious and focused on his game. Spezza...ehhh...seems like a bit of a party/good-time guy, got some growing up to do. Thornton was able to make Cheechoo into a 50 goal guy, which Spezza was not able to...

If you talk about playoffs, that's fine but remember that we had an excellent puck-moving defense, Alfredsson on a mission and a weakish Eastern field at the time. Meanwhile in the West...San Jose has had to deal with Detroit, Anaheim, Detroit, Chicago, Vancouver...quite tough competition.

With Thornton only have one year left on his deal and with a fresh start, he'll be VERY motivated to perform. I would welcome him with open arms here in Ottawa. Thornton's speech patterns are also an advantage over Spezza's...


Nothing wrong with either of these players that a change of scenery couldn't fix.
Spezza made Heatley a 50 goal guy

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Old
06-21-2010, 03:01 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
Does Spezza have a NTC?
His NTC will activate on July 1. Like I said, reunite him with Heatley in San Jose. I'd be all over it with a Pavelski, Murray, 1st rounder, and something else. I'd want to see what would get it done.

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06-21-2010, 03:23 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
wow. only on hf.

hall as a scoring winger at 18 is better than a legit no 1 center?
You have to think about it in a salary cap world. 5 years ago that trade makes sense, however those days are gone.

Would you rather have a 60-70pt winger in Hall on consecutive ELC and RFA contracts or a 80pt Spezza making 7mil a year. I can tell you which every GM in the league would take.

There is no way Edmonton trades Hall + for Spezza. Just like NYI wouldn't trade Tavares+ and TB wouldn't trade Stamklos+.

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