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Can we really get fair return for Carter?

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Old
06-21-2010, 06:14 PM
  #51
sg12lw
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Ryan- Fair value. A deal I would do, we need a big time winger more than Center.
Suter- Fair value but not a position of need so I wouldnt pull the trigger.
Vokoun- Terrible. An aging goalie for a 25 year old 2 way scoring center. No thanks.
925 sv pct and 2.55 gaa on florida...with 7 shut outs...on florida

hed be our best goalie since the early years ron hextall

33...not young, but plenty of life left...im sure thered be a throw in player, but nobody that impactful

and you forgot the "regular seaon" before "2 way scoring center"

also suter would be our 3rd number 1 dman -yes hes a one...imho hes better than weber (even a lot of nashville fans agree) - if you add him to our d we can get away with bad goalies, so you never turn that down imo...imagine prongs suter, kimmo hamhuis, carle coburn...put me in the net and we'll win haha...once again its a pipe dream, bc not many teams trade a number 1 dman, but you never know...hes not a need but you cant turn that deal down i dont think

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06-21-2010, 06:17 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by PhillyCurt12 View Post
i'd say kovy is the most valuable player available, and teams wouldn't need to trade assets to sign him aside from possible salary shedding.
Kovy only plays on one side of the puck.

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06-21-2010, 06:24 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by 25 Pronger D PHI View Post
925 sv pct and 2.55 gaa on florida...with 7 shut outs...on florida

hed be our best goalie since the early years ron hextall

33...not young, but plenty of life left...im sure thered be a throw in player, but nobody that impactful

and you forgot the "regular seaon" before "2 way scoring center"

also suter would be our 3rd number 1 dman -yes hes a one...hes better than weber (even a lot of nashville fans agree) - if you add him to our d we can get away with bad goalies, so you never turn that down imo...imagine prongs suter, kimmo hamhuis, carle coburn...put me in the net and we'll win haha...once again its a pipe dream, bc not many teams trade a number 1 dman, but you never know
But you've got a bias against Carter, so no matter what, any deal looks good in your eyes as long as it involves moving Carter. And fact is, the Vokoun deal is a BAD deal. You don't move a 25 year old, 40 goal scoring, two way centerman for a 34 year old soon to be UFA. You just don't. On top of it, for those who are whining about Carter not getting it done in the playoffs, John LeClair and Tim Kerr were two other guys who "didn't get it done" in the playoffs or took 9 seasons before they started producing in the playoffs. Nobody wanted either of those guys gone.

So, why are you picking on Carter for? You say he has no heart, but he came back from two broken feet and still played, yet was in considerable discomfort throughout the finals. You say he looks like he doesn't care out there, but he's the first guy on the back check and he doesn't put himself out of position. You say he doesn't put any effort into his game, yet he's the fastest skater on the team and him hitting top speed is effortless. You say he isn't physical, yet when players hit him, they bounce off him. There's a reason why the guy is given a wide area when he comes flying down the ice.

Honestly, the Carter hate is completely mind blowing. He's the best two-way forward in Philadelphia. And 40 goal scorers are getting harder to come by. You just don't give those up for a 34 year old goaltender that's soon to be a UFA.

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06-21-2010, 06:27 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
But you've got a bias against Carter, so no matter what, any deal looks good in your eyes as long as it involves moving Carter. And fact is, the Vokoun deal is a BAD deal. You don't move a 25 year old, 40 goal scoring, two way centerman for a 34 year old soon to be UFA. You just don't. On top of it, for those who are whining about Carter not getting it done in the playoffs, John LeClair and Tim Kerr were two other guys who "didn't get it done" in the playoffs or took 9 seasons before they started producing in the playoffs. Nobody wanted either of those guys gone.

So, why are you picking on Carter for? You say he has no heart, but he came back from two broken feet and still played, yet was in considerable discomfort throughout the finals. You say he looks like he doesn't care out there, but he's the first guy on the back check and he doesn't put himself out of position. You say he doesn't put any effort into his game, yet he's the fastest skater on the team and him hitting top speed is effortless. You say he isn't physical, yet when players hit him, they bounce off him. There's a reason why the guy is given a wide area when he comes flying down the ice.

Honestly, the Carter hate is completely mind blowing. He's the best two-way forward in Philadelphia. And 40 goal scorers are getting harder to come by. You just don't give those up for a 34 year old goaltender that's soon to be a UFA.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again ... most of the people whining here wouldn't show up for their desk job with 2 broken feet or a separated shoulder ... he played 30+ NHL playoff games or so with those two injuries.

**** with the trading Carter. Other than Richards, I would trade every single player on this team before Carter.

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06-21-2010, 10:48 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
I've said it before, and I'll say it again ... most of the people whining here wouldn't show up for their desk job with 2 broken feet or a separated shoulder ... he played 30+ NHL playoff games or so with those two injuries.

**** with the trading Carter. Other than Richards, I would trade every single player on this team before Carter.
I was also taking a look at that big goof number 25 and his playoff stats. He only had a good playoff run after 12 seasons of being in the league. Point is, if people are going to crap all over Carter after four playoff appearances, they need to get their head checked. And yep, those two broken feet and the separated shoulder certainly goes a long way in testing one's character and heart. Carter has it in spades. I honestly think that if he were healthy for the entire playoffs, it would have been a much different Carter than the Carter we saw. Fact is, his first game back against Montreal was all adrenalin. Once it wore off, we all saw how badly he struggled and it was quite noticeable that his feet were giving him all kinds of grief.

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06-21-2010, 11:08 PM
  #56
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could we swing
carter + hartnell

for
(WILD)
Clutterbuck
Backstrom
picks

that would give us cap space to resign our defence, and we'd be set for the future too!

plus the wild is looking for players EXACTLY like carter and hartnell!!

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06-22-2010, 12:15 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
But you've got a bias against Carter, so no matter what, any deal looks good in your eyes as long as it involves moving Carter. And fact is, the Vokoun deal is a BAD deal. You don't move a 25 year old, 40 goal scoring, two way centerman for a 34 year old soon to be UFA. You just don't. On top of it, for those who are whining about Carter not getting it done in the playoffs, John LeClair and Tim Kerr were two other guys who "didn't get it done" in the playoffs or took 9 seasons before they started producing in the playoffs. Nobody wanted either of those guys gone.

So, why are you picking on Carter for? You say he has no heart, but he came back from two broken feet and still played, yet was in considerable discomfort throughout the finals. You say he looks like he doesn't care out there, but he's the first guy on the back check and he doesn't put himself out of position. You say he doesn't put any effort into his game, yet he's the fastest skater on the team and him hitting top speed is effortless. You say he isn't physical, yet when players hit him, they bounce off him. There's a reason why the guy is given a wide area when he comes flying down the ice.

Honestly, the Carter hate is completely mind blowing. He's the best two-way forward in Philadelphia. And 40 goal scorers are getting harder to come by. You just don't give those up for a 34 year old goaltender that's soon to be a UFA.
and you apparently like the guy too much to see any flaw in him

dont want to argue over an opinion based thing, but ive watched every minute of every game hes ever played, and even when fully healthy the guy flat out doesnt battle hard...he is soft in the corners and on the boards, and thats all in his head/heart

theres no reason that a guy that big and fast and skilled doesnt do whatever he wants

remember that game vs buffalo a few years back where briere scored in a shootout to snap a 10 game losing streak?? we got down 3-0 or something early that game i remember and carter absolutely took over and played like a man possessed for the rest of the game, and he actually made it look damn easy....well, i have not seen even a glimpse of that before or after that day

the guy has the tools, no question about it, but doesnt have the desire....you cant teach heart.....he has value, so i say we use it to win a cup

19 pts in 52 playoff games...and how many of those points were empty net goals??? thats in the new nhl by the way, which makes it pathetic...not only that but missing two empty nets have cost us the last two playoff series we have lost....he doesnt just not show up, he actually hurts us...what was he on the finals -10?? jesus christ....to be fair he played with richie and gags who sucked equally in that series, but carter couldnt break the puck out of the zone to save his life, all bc he was always afraid to get hit by the dman...i know hes a center, but hes in the nhl, he should be able to chip the puck out of the zone...thats easy

and he is not the first guy on the backcheck all the time and if he is its becasue the other two guys on his line went to the net while he hung out at the top of the circles...and what does speed have to do with effort/heart?? and players do not bounce off him i.e carcillo

direct quote from jeff carter when asked who the best hitter in the league was ; "i dont know, i try not to get hit" - funny because its true....which makes it not funny

P.S the thing i hate most in the world is people excusing guys who played in the playoffs with injuries - they dont want or need to be excused, they wouldnt be playing if they couldnt - everyone is playing hurt...carter could skate just fine in the finals, i know bc i saw it....bones heal,and trainers/doctors can make pain go away so a broken foot doesnt mean **** to me...and yes i played 2 months with a broken big toe two years ago...it hurt like hell, but didnt affect my game at all, so once again, that excuse is not valid for carters lack of playoff performance

vokoun steals games...when was the last time we had a goalie who did that? thats worth something to me...and waiting/hoping for carter to figure his **** out is not a chance i want to take when we can get proven players for him

EDIT:just read it and its a little harsh haha im not trying to get into anything here, im a little snippy with no hockey in my life (not to mention bored to death) , and all these rumors of stuff the flyers might or might not do have me on edge....yes i dont like carter and want him traded. thats my opinion, and while it may not be right, that doesnt make it wrong. im not trying to get into a fued here, so sorry to anyone ive offended


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Old
06-22-2010, 12:27 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
could we swing
carter + hartnell

for
(WILD)
Clutterbuck
Backstrom
picks

that would give us cap space to resign our defence, and we'd be set for the future too!

plus the wild is looking for players EXACTLY like carter and hartnell!!
i dont get why either team makes a hartnell/clutterbuck swap - other than salary for us, which once again begs the question, why do the wild do it.....hartnell> clutterbuck, i say keep him....i am biased though bc i hate cal bc he is a pest who hides behind his visor and doesnt fight, even tho he runs at star players all game...i hate guys like that...yes, harts is a pest, but a different kind lol

carter for backstrom is interesting, but i have wild season tickets, and backstrom looked a little weaker without lemaires system in front of him...still a good goalie, but i now have doubts in him, and im scared to trade for a goalie that were not 100% sure on....but then again maybe its just me

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06-22-2010, 12:32 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by 25 Pronger D PHI View Post
and you apparently like the guy too much to see any flaw in him

dont want to argue over an opinion based thing, but ive watched every minute of every game hes ever played, and even when fully healthy the guy flat out doesnt battle hard...he is soft in the corners and on the boards, and thats all in his head/heart

theres no reason that a guy that big and fast and skilled doesnt do whatever he wants

remember that game vs buffalo a few years back where briere scored in a shootout to snap a 10 game losing streak?? we got down 3-0 or something early that game i remember and carter absolutely took over and played like a man possessed for the rest of the game, and he actually made it look damn easy....well, i have not seen even a glimpse of that before or after that day

the guy has the tools, no question about it, but doesnt have the desire....you cant teach heart.....he has value, so i say we use it to win a cup
That's the stupidest thing I've ever read and any other poster on the board will tell you the same. He doesn't have desire is the biggest load of crap I've ever read. I've stopped reading right here because everything from this point on is nothing but verbal diarrhea.

With over 5,000 posts to my name and having been a fan of the Flyers since 1976, I've watched more than my fair share of Flyers games and I'm not adverse to calling any player out. With that being said, Carter has an easy go lucky mentality because he sees hockey for what it is - a game. It's nothing more than and nothing less than.

For Carter, the game comes easy and natural to him. As for his performance in the finals, I'll say it over and over again, he was still playing injured. And there's a HUGE difference between playing hurt and playing injured. He should have never been cleared to play with a broken foot. I remember when I broke my foot playing soccer in high school and I was off my foot for a minimum of six weeks and that was after having screws inserted in my foot. He was rushed back and he should have NEVER been cleared. If you watched the finals, like you claim you do, then you would have noticed Carter was absolutely labouring out there and he wasn't skating the way he normally skates. That very much affected his game.

I'm not making excuses for the guy because he came up short. However, as I also pointed out historically, guys like Tim Kerr, John LeClair, big useless number 25, Simon Gagne, etc...all came up short in their first four appearances in the Stanley Cup playoffs. It happens. And I don't remember anyone wanting to deal any of those guys after they came up short in the playoffs.

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06-22-2010, 12:57 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 25 Pronger D PHI View Post
i dont get why either team makes a hartnell/clutterbuck swap - other than salary for us, which once again begs the question, why do the wild do it.....hartnell> clutterbuck, i say keep him....i am biased though bc i hate cal bc he is a pest who hides behind his visor and doesnt fight, even tho he runs at star players all game...i hate guys like that...yes, harts is a pest, but a different kind lol

carter for backstrom is interesting, but i have wild season tickets, and backstrom looked a little weaker without lemaires system in front of him...still a good goalie, but i now have doubts in him, and im scared to trade for a goalie that were not 100% sure on....but then again maybe its just me
You must be biased since you failed to mention he was one of the top hitters in the league (he may actually be the top). He doesn't just run star players, he hits everyone. He only took 52 PIM during the season, which is pretty good for an agitator.

Not necessarily saying i want to trade for him, but it's quite easy to say some subjective negatives to debunk someone.


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06-22-2010, 01:16 AM
  #61
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Carter will not yield a player as good as himself in return.

Players like him never do.

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06-22-2010, 01:16 AM
  #62
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Jeff Carter is a very worthwhile player to have in the regular season, but he's not someone who's going to step up and lead his team to victory in the playoffs. It's just not in his personality to assert himself and take over (at least not consistently enough). That's my personal opinion.

That said, I wouldn't part ways with him unless another team puts forth a truly overwhelming offer -- something along the lines of a legitimate #1 goalie, either already established or a highly touted prospect on the cusp of regular duty as an NHL starter, and a top-6 forward who can score 30 goals.

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06-22-2010, 01:29 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
You must be biased since you failed to mention he was one of the top hitters in the league (he may actually be the top). He doesn't just run star players, he hits everyone. He only took 52 PIM during the season, which is pretty good for an agitator.

Not necessarily saying i want to trade for him, but it's quite easy to say some subjective negatives to debunk someone.
sorry, didnt think i had too, thats what people think of when they think of him

what you failed to mention is that he doesnt bring a whole lot else to the table...he finishes all his checks, yes, but hes not huge, so the majority of the time, they are just another hit...the guy is not a very good hockey player otherwise....hartnell is better

i said he hides behind his visor and doesnt own up to taking runs at people, both of which are facts...i dont want guys like him, kaleta, cooke ever playing for my team

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06-22-2010, 01:36 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
That's the stupidest thing I've ever read and any other poster on the board will tell you the same. He doesn't have desire is the biggest load of crap I've ever read. I've stopped reading right here because everything from this point on is nothing but verbal diarrhea.

With over 5,000 posts to my name and having been a fan of the Flyers since 1976, I've watched more than my fair share of Flyers games and I'm not adverse to calling any player out. With that being said, Carter has an easy go lucky mentality because he sees hockey for what it is - a game. It's nothing more than and nothing less than.

For Carter, the game comes easy and natural to him. As for his performance in the finals, I'll say it over and over again, he was still playing injured. And there's a HUGE difference between playing hurt and playing injured. He should have never been cleared to play with a broken foot. I remember when I broke my foot playing soccer in high school and I was off my foot for a minimum of six weeks and that was after having screws inserted in my foot. He was rushed back and he should have NEVER been cleared. If you watched the finals, like you claim you do, then you would have noticed Carter was absolutely labouring out there and he wasn't skating the way he normally skates. That very much affected his game.

I'm not making excuses for the guy because he came up short. However, as I also pointed out historically, guys like Tim Kerr, John LeClair, big useless number 25, Simon Gagne, etc...all came up short in their first four appearances in the Stanley Cup playoffs. It happens. And I don't remember anyone wanting to deal any of those guys after they came up short in the playoffs.
actually a lot of posts ive read from people who want to trade carter say the exact same thing haha.......but youre right and im wrong

sorry, i am a bad person

.....and im blocking you from here on out, bc i want to bother with you since you know everything, so dont bother directing a response at me. my opinion is that carter is soft, and yours is that im an idiot...i dont care how many posts you have, you dont know more about hockey than me, and i know that bc of your last post. good day....ps one day youll realize carter is soft, lazy, and lacking heart, but judging by what ive seen, you will say that you thought that all along...i know people like you

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06-22-2010, 01:43 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by 25 Pronger D PHI View Post
sorry, didnt think i had too, thats what people think of when they think of him

what you failed to mention is that he doesnt bring a whole lot else to the table...he finishes all his checks, yes, but hes not huge, so the majority of the time, they are just another hit...the guy is not a very good hockey player otherwise....hartnell is better

i said he hides behind his visor and doesnt own up to taking runs at people, both of which are facts...i dont want guys like him, kaleta, cooke ever playing for my team
I was unaware of the global collective pool of thought on Cal, thanks for update. I figured we were discussing a player, so perhaps it might be best to talk about high points since the low points were all that were being focused on. Subjective low points at that.

I think a lot of your "facts" would be better received as "opinion", like the bolded. Again, I don't want to trade for him, I just find your approach on logic/argument a bit tunnel visioned.

But to cater to you, i'd agree with your assessment which seems to conform to

Hartnell>>>>>>>>>Cal

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06-22-2010, 02:09 AM
  #66
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Personally, assuming Hartnell has a rebound season and Briere continues his post-season dominance, Carter is our most tradeable and therefore most expendable asset at forward (and possibly on the whole roster for that matter). Trading him would shed significant cap space, clear up room for our other three top six centers (Richards, Giroux, Briere), and likely fetch a good return. In fact, the only reasons I'm even hesitant to do so are as follows:

1) He's our only center with size. This doesn't worry me as much as it does others, but it's something to consider. I don't think you need to be big to succeed necessarily. Both Giroux and Richards play much bigger then they are anyway.

2) He's by far our best goal-scorer and losing him leaves us with something like two or three 30 goal guys with only one young gun (JVR) that has enough promise to replace a considerable amount of Carter's goal output. Losing that kind of production could hurt considerably.

3) Locker room issues. Reportedly Carter is very well liked by both teammates and fans. Combine that with all the personnel moves that have been done over the last couple of years (Knuble, Umberger, Parent, Biron, Niitty, etc.) and I'm just worried that shipping off a guy like Carter could really **** up the "spirit" of the club.

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06-22-2010, 06:38 AM
  #67
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I thought this was a pretty good assessment. I happen to agree with the tendency to disappear for far too long...the streakiness is getting harder to accept with each passing year
Agreed.....When I mentioned this during the series though, I got blasted. Is everyone blasting Metzler as well????

Only thing I somewhat disagree with is his comments on Briere, a bit off topic from the OP..Yes, Leino and Hartnell came alive, but you can argue that had as much to do with them playing with Briere as Briere's performance had to do with them? Briere was playing very well before that line was put together. Also, as I have been saying for years, and as Briere confirmed a week or so ago, he is more comfortable playing center than wing. And when he did play wing this past season it was with Carter who is not the kind of player he fits well with. He needs guys "skilled" guys that can play a give and go game in the offensive zone like Pominville in Buffalo, Prospal a couple years ago and now Leino....having someone like Hecht/Hartnell to do the dirty work on the other side. I think that line just all complemented each other very well.

Briere needs those skilled guys....He hasnt had that his three seasons here other than his short time playing with Giroux in last season's playoffs in which he played very well. My opinion is, he either plays at center with Leino and Hartnell (assuming they are all here) or if he is on the wing, it is with Giroux at center.

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06-22-2010, 07:25 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
That's the stupidest thing I've ever read and any other poster on the board will tell you the same. He doesn't have desire is the biggest load of crap I've ever read. I've stopped reading right here because everything from this point on is nothing but verbal diarrhea.

With over 5,000 posts to my name and having been a fan of the Flyers since 1976, I've watched more than my fair share of Flyers games and I'm not adverse to calling any player out. With that being said, Carter has an easy go lucky mentality because he sees hockey for what it is - a game. It's nothing more than and nothing less than.
Let us all bow to the 5,000 posts. The smug level is getting catastrophic in this thread.

Anyways... I WANT TO WIN. I attend games and watch them on TV to see my team win, not for them to go out and just "play a game." Jeff Carter gets paid $5 million per year (will probably be close to 7 soon enough) to just "play a game?" It is his job to go out on that ice and earn his pay, not to go out and play a game with his buddies on the local pond. He is paid the big bucks to bring the Stanley Cup to Philly (technically he did since the cup was raised on our ice).

Maybe I'm spoiled because of what Lappy did, but I am too very tired of this "oh, he was hurt" excuse. Do I doubt the man's talents? Not at all... however, I will never go out of my way to cheer for a player with a "easy go lucky" mentality. I want toughness and Jeff Carter is inconsistent in this category. Obviously, because I haven't had nearly as many posts or been a fan as long as you, I'm probably wrong, but hey, it's my opinion and I'm not the only one that has this opinion.

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Old
06-22-2010, 07:34 AM
  #69
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I suggested a day ago that the Flyers would trade for the rights to Hamhuis. I further suggested that Carter could be a trade target for Nashville.
How about Carter for Wilson, Pickard and Geoffreon?
Put Wilson on JVR's line. Have enough money to pay the Big 5 D Men for this coming season, deal Carle next summer (after the parade of course). Also enough money to get a goalie for 2.5 million.
I would drool at the tought of Wilson and JVR reunited, those two kids read each other's minds. I don't know enough about what the other two have done to know how far off this trade would be, and I doubt Nashville would do it. They do need a top center now that Arnott is gone, but in Carter they'd be getting another guy who needs to be resigned next year, and losing prospects on a team that thrives on developing cheap talent.

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06-22-2010, 07:50 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Agreed.....When I mentioned this during the series though, I got blasted. Is everyone blasting Metzler as well????

Only thing I somewhat disagree with is his comments on Briere, a bit off topic from the OP..Yes, Leino and Hartnell came alive, but you can argue that had as much to do with them playing with Briere as Briere's performance had to do with them? Briere was playing very well before that line was put together. Also, as I have been saying for years, and as Briere confirmed a week or so ago, he is more comfortable playing center than wing. And when he did play wing this past season it was with Carter who is not the kind of player he fits well with. He needs guys "skilled" guys that can play a give and go game in the offensive zone like Pominville in Buffalo, Prospal a couple years ago and now Leino....having someone like Hecht/Hartnell to do the dirty work on the other side. I think that line just all complemented each other very well.

Briere needs those skilled guys....He hasnt had that his three seasons here other than his short time playing with Giroux in last season's playoffs in which he played very well. My opinion is, he either plays at center with Leino and Hartnell (assuming they are all here) or if he is on the wing, it is with Giroux at center.
I like the guy, but Meltzer's analysis on Carter was laughable at best.

EVERYONE in the NHL has hot spurts and cold spurts. Breaking it down into little 4 or 5 game stretches is just nitpicky. I'd say a streaky player is someone like Lupul who will go without a goal for 10 games and then score 7 goals in 5 games. *****ing about how Carter scored 3 goals in 2 games and then 0 goals in the next 3 games is just stupid, there's variation for everybody.

That's like asking a .333 hitter in baseball to go 1 for 3 with a BB in every game or a guy with a 30 point average in basketball to score exactly 30 every game.

If Carter scores 40 goals every year, who cares how he got there?

I should add that Meltzer says Gagne/Roo/Leino/Hartnell/Briere can handle the offensive drop from Carter leaving.

Gagne - Was not at peak effectiveness in 2 of the last 3 years, but we're banking on him to stay healthy now?
Roo - 47 point year and was truly awful at C.
Leino - PO runs are great, but what's Fernando Pisani doing right now? No guarantees there.
Hartnell - Just got done having the worst regular season of his career and was horrible for the NJ series and even into the Bruins series, but 15 games somehow guarantees he'll be a 30-30 guy next year? And let's not forget he put those numbers up on Carter's wing.
Briere - People have already forgotten the disaster of Briere-at-Center in 07/08? Short memories.

So he's basically saying that a bunch of wild cards can be relied on to replace a guy who you know is going to pot 35-45 every year. He would have easily broken 35 this year, probably finished up with around 37 if not for injury and he was truly snakebitten for 20 games in the middle, was at over a 40 goal pace under Lavi...

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan333 View Post
Let us all bow to the 5,000 posts. The smug level is getting catastrophic in this thread.

Anyways... I WANT TO WIN. I attend games and watch them on TV to see my team win, not for them to go out and just "play a game." Jeff Carter gets paid $5 million per year (will probably be close to 7 soon enough) to just "play a game?" It is his job to go out on that ice and earn his pay, not to go out and play a game with his buddies on the local pond. He is paid the big bucks to bring the Stanley Cup to Philly (technically he did since the cup was raised on our ice).

Maybe I'm spoiled because of what Lappy did, but I am too very tired of this "oh, he was hurt" excuse.
Do I doubt the man's talents? Not at all... however, I will never go out of my way to cheer for a player with a "easy go lucky" mentality. I want toughness and Jeff Carter is inconsistent in this category. Obviously, because I haven't had nearly as many posts or been a fan as long as you, I'm probably wrong, but hey, it's my opinion and I'm not the only one that has this opinion.
It's funny how Lappy has totally escaped criticism despite pretty much only playing PK in the finals and not playing well at ES. By no means am I saying Lappy should be blamed, it was extremely brave for him to even come back. But the guy was not very effective.

So Carter gets 2 broken feet, comes back, isn't effective, is essentially driven out of the city.

Lappy bruises his brain, comes back, isn't effective, and is lauded as a hero.

Interesting and for the record, we all love Lappy, I do too, but that's an interesting contrast.


Last edited by FlyHigh: 06-22-2010 at 07:55 AM.
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06-22-2010, 08:05 AM
  #71
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Carter is just the new scape goat. Simon Gagne plays softer then girls tennis, but we hear the excuses of "that's not his game" "he's injured" "what are you stupid he had 70 points last year". You bring up the idea of getting rid of Gagne and your treated like your trying to raise the anti christ to kill a million children. I don't hate Gagne, just pointing out that the depths some of you guys will go to just to proclaim your hate for Carter is kind of funny.

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06-22-2010, 08:42 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
It's funny how Lappy has totally escaped criticism despite pretty much only playing PK in the finals and not playing well at ES. By no means am I saying Lappy should be blamed, it was extremely brave for him to even come back. But the guy was not very effective.

So Carter gets 2 broken feet, comes back, isn't effective, is essentially driven out of the city.

Lappy bruises his brain, comes back, isn't effective, and is lauded as a hero.

Interesting and for the record, we all love Lappy, I do too, but that's an interesting contrast.
Lappy is not on the 1st line and not expected to score goals and make plays happen. Jeff Carter is paid to do these things as a 1st line player. Talk about double standards all you want.

I do not scapegoat Jeff Carter for the finals loss, that was a team effort (his linemates weren't all that great either). However, for a 1st line player, he looked lazy out there and like was mentioned before by 25 Pronger, looked to be avoiding contact by passing too early or just not hitting like he should have been. Even if this was the 1st round of the playoffs and we were up 3 games to 1, I wouldn't kick up too much of a fuss, but this was the Stanley Cup finals and our opponent was not playing their A game (kinda reminds me of a fairly recent Super Bowl featuring a Philly team).

So I guess should we be blaming coaching for this mistake? Why did we break up the chemistry the team had since midway through the Boston series? Why did Jeff Carter need to play on the top line?

I am not one of those people clamoring for the first semi-decent offer for Jeff Carter. If Briere wasn't on the team and did not produce so well at center, this would be a moot point, but with his contract, it is close to impossible to move him. If a team offers something along the lines that Boston got for Phil Kessel, I would at least counter it with something more. I agree players like Jeff Carter are a dime a dozen, but in the end it doesn't make sense to have 3 superstar centers (none of which seem to produce nearly as well on wing) on one team. So what happens next season when Jeff Carter's agent demands 7+ million per year for 5 years. Assuming Briere is never moved at any time, thats at least 4 years with 19+ million locked up into 3 first line centers. In a salary cap world, this makes absolutely no sense, especially when all three play their best at center.

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06-22-2010, 08:48 AM
  #73
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For the record, I would certainly try moving Simon Gagne before Jeff Carter. Gagne's 2nd half stats improved his value and could be an interesting pickup for a contending team (a.k.a. team he might waive his NTC for).

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06-22-2010, 09:09 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post

With over 5,000 posts to my name and having been a fan of the Flyers since 1976, I've watched more than my fair share of Flyers games and I'm not adverse to calling any player out. With that being said, Carter has an easy go lucky mentality because he sees hockey for what it is - a game. It's nothing more than and nothing less than.

For Carter, the game comes easy and natural to him. As for his performance in the finals, I'll say it over and over again, he was still playing injured. And there's a HUGE difference between playing hurt and playing injured. He should have never been cleared to play with a broken foot. I remember when I broke my foot playing soccer in high school and I was off my foot for a minimum of six weeks and that was after having screws inserted in my foot. He was rushed back and he should have NEVER been cleared. If you watched the finals, like you claim you do, then you would have noticed Carter was absolutely labouring out there and he wasn't skating the way he normally skates. That very much affected his game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan333 View Post
Let us all bow to the 5,000 posts. The smug level is getting catastrophic in this thread.

Anyways... I WANT TO WIN. I attend games and watch them on TV to see my team win, not for them to go out and just "play a game." Jeff Carter gets paid $5 million per year (will probably be close to 7 soon enough) to just "play a game?" It is his job to go out on that ice and earn his pay, not to go out and play a game with his buddies on the local pond. He is paid the big bucks to bring the Stanley Cup to Philly (technically he did since the cup was raised on our ice).

Maybe I'm spoiled because of what Lappy did, but I am too very tired of this "oh, he was hurt" excuse. Do I doubt the man's talents? Not at all... however, I will never go out of my way to cheer for a player with a "easy go lucky" mentality. I want toughness and Jeff Carter is inconsistent in this category. Obviously, because I haven't had nearly as many posts or been a fan as long as you, I'm probably wrong, but hey, it's my opinion and I'm not the only one that has this opinion.
That's the problem people are discussing and needs pointing out. There was, up until recently a certain superstar level QB in philly who always put up fantastic numbers and battled through injuries to play in games he maybe shouldn't have given the pain he had to push through... He also had that Easy-Go-Lucky Mentality... No matter how many goals or TD passes these two could put up, nothing sits well in this city, let alone any city who's fans want winners, is seeing a Professional Athlete making more money than god have a "easy go lucky" mentality towards bringing a championship to their team when the going gets tough. You don't win games with those people, their brains are injured - something doctor's can't heal or stitch back together and coaches cannot teach, you win with heart and guts at the highest level and he's paid to be our game breaker, which he hasn't been in 2 consecutive post seasons. Lucky for us he can't crack smiles and jokes while returning to the bench after throwing INT's or he'd already be traded to ATL or somewhere nice and comfortable in FLA where he can be told how good he is constantly

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06-22-2010, 09:22 AM
  #75
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After the garbage I have been reading on the main board I am now officially convinced that Jeff Carter cannot get his value in a trade.

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