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Old
06-22-2010, 04:58 PM
  #76
Staals Eye
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Torts didn't like him... Whom, the hell, does he like? Callahan? Anisismov?
Seriously, name me young player he is good with.

Sad, all I can say... Torts cannot teach anyone anything. We are doomed.
That is a misconception about Torts. Even Anisimov himself said Torts was very hands on and good with him. He knows when to praise a player, and when to push them. Can we stop making hearsay reality please?

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06-22-2010, 04:59 PM
  #77
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I love it when people that probably can't balance a checkbook come on here and all us about asset management. Korpikoski is going to be in the NHL for the next 10 years and Lisen is probably done. You can twist it anyway which way but that's not good asset management. The best part is we had three after thread last year about Lisen and those same posters (who btw are never right) are going to say they would make the trade again because we have 3rd and 4th lime depth played in the system...really? Then why were the Rangers trading for 3rd and 4th liners last year? How can you guys talk about assets and what's expendable and what isn't when you don't even know what we have? The idea that we have this bottom line depth is the latest HF myth that becomes reality because its posted numerous times..anyway you slice it its not factual.

We had threads last summer about how Lisen should play above Avery and in a handful of games that happened. How did it work out?

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06-22-2010, 05:00 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Let me know when Phoenix wins the Cup.
They had a helluva lot better season than we will have anytime soon thats for sure.

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06-22-2010, 05:02 PM
  #79
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You win some trades, you lose some trades. We didn't win this obviously but why are people crying over it? Its Lauri 4th liner Korpi. You have to take some risks sometimes, I still have no problem with him making this trade.

Glad we aren't qualifying him though.

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06-22-2010, 05:03 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
They had a helluva lot better season than we will have anytime soon thats for sure.
And if/when they lose Z-man they will fall back to Earth fairly quickly.

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06-22-2010, 05:04 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I love it when people that probably can't balance a checkbook come on here and all us about asset management. Korpikoski is going to be in the NHL for the next 10 years and Lisen is probably done. You can twist it anyway which way but that's not good asset management. The best part is we had three after thread last year about Lisen and those same posters (who btw are never right) are going to say they would make the trade again because we have 3rd and 4th lime depth played in the system...really? Then why were the Rangers trading for 3rd and 4th liners last year? How can you guys talk about assets and what's expendable and what isn't when you don't even know what we have? The idea that we have this bottom line depth is the latest HF myth that becomes reality because its posted numerous times..anyway you slice it its not factual.

We had threads last summer about how Lisen should play above Avery and in a handful of games that happened. How did it work out?
He would not be in the NHL for us. As Squishy stated (and I as well), he was bolting for the KHL. He did not like it here.

He was a replaceable player. I actually missed Betts much more than I did Korpedo.

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Old
06-22-2010, 05:04 PM
  #82
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korpi would be battling for a bottom line roster spot here...and probablly would lose it to Prust

we traded something we had a surplus of for a shot at some more offense

it didnt work out....so what?

we're out a 4th liner

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06-22-2010, 05:08 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
korpi would be battling for a bottom line roster spot here...and probablly would lose it to Prust

we traded something we had a surplus of for a shot at some more offense

it didnt work out....so what?

we're out a 4th liner
Bingo. I wish him well. Hope Phoenix enjoys him for a long time. I do not miss him one bit and I would not trade anything of value to obtain him.

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Old
06-22-2010, 05:12 PM
  #84
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Is this a new hfboards thing? Every new young player that turns out to suck balls is Tortorella's fault? ha.

Lisin blows. End of story. If he is in the NHL in 2 seasons I will eat my best pair of pants without any peanut butter.

Its kind of telling when a kid hasnt been a scorer at ANY level, including the AHL, and is expected to step in and be a "top 6 or bust" player.

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Old
06-22-2010, 05:19 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Is this a new hfboards thing? Every new young player that turns out to suck balls is Tortorella's fault? ha.

Lisin blows. End of story. If he is in the NHL in 2 seasons I will eat my best pair of pants without any peanut butter.

Its kind of telling when a kid hasnt been a scorer at ANY level, including the AHL, and is expected to step in and be a "top 6 or bust" player.
oh its not new

everything is his fault

i think there's a thread somewhere blaming Torts for BP's oil spill

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Old
06-22-2010, 05:25 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
A wasted asset is a wasted asset. That Makes 3 1st rounders(montoya, Jessiman, Korpikoski) with absolutely NOTHING to show for it. I can't think of any recent teams that have ZERO assets after giving up 3 1st rounders in trades.
Please make the pain stop. I cannot think anymore of the largely horrific drafting (especially in the early rounds) by Sather. To think, how many year of drafting and how many homegrown top-6 forwards?

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06-22-2010, 05:27 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Please make the pain stop. I cannot think anymore of the largely horrific drafting (especially in the early rounds) by Sather. To think, how many year of drafting and how many homegrown top-6 forwards?
I blame Maloney just as much as Sather for a number of horrible picks. He was the man in charge of the draft...

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06-22-2010, 05:30 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Lisin was a home run swing, in my opinion, because he's the tools with no toolbox guy. His upside was that as a good top 6 player. A 60 point guy or so. He was a second round pick because of the lack of a toolbox. Sometimes these guys learn it, sometimes these guys don't.

I was fine moving a spare part like Korpedo for him due to us having the ability to find a guy with the lack of upside of Korpedo more than to find a guy with the upside of Lisin.

Korpedo was gone after the year, anyway. At least the rumors were such.
Sorry I still don't see it.

Even if you try to say he's a tools but not toolbox player, there has to be numbers at some level. If there aren't, then it's pretty apparent that he's missing a bit more than just the toolbox.

As for Korpikoski, I'm not sold on the leaving us rumor nor am I sold on the fact that we couldn't do better than some of the trades we made with Phoenix.

Whether those guys ever hit the level we expected of them or not, those trades were just brutal.

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06-22-2010, 05:32 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I blame Maloney just as much as Sather for a number of horrible picks. He was the man in charge of the draft...
Mayhaps you'r right. But Sather is the jackass in charge. The sad thing is that I remember the unbridled optimism that existed here following the dark years. But then you stop to think the amount of time that Sather has been in charge and just what an overall terrible job that has happened under his watch from soup to nuts. I actually recall when we used to say that we have definetly acquired enough plumbers and defensemen and how it was time to start to draft forwards.

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06-22-2010, 05:33 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Sorry I still don't see it.

Even if you try to say he's a tools but not toolbox player, there has to be numbers at some level. If there aren't, then it's pretty apparent that he's missing a bit more than just the toolbox.

As for Korpikoski, I'm not sold on the leaving us rumor nor am I sold on the fact that we couldn't do better than some of the trades we made with Phoenix.

Whether those guys ever hit the level we expected of them or not, those trades were just brutal.
Lisin's numbers in the AHL were solid and he was coming off a 21 point in 48 game rookie year. That's really not that bad for a kid struggling to put his tools together.

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06-22-2010, 05:34 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Mayhaps you'r right. But Sather is the jackass in charge. The sad thing is that I remember the unbridled optimism that existed here following the dark years. But then you stop to think the amount of time that Sather has been in charge and just what an overall terrible job that has happened under his watch from soup to nuts. I actually recall when we used to say that we have definetly acquired enough plumbers and defensemen and how it was time to start to draft forwards.
I can only blame Sather for the drafts so much, though. Since Maloney has left and Gordie has taken over, the caliber of player we've picked has definitely been of the higher upside type, for the most part.

Granted, we've had one guy that died, but we can't blame that on Sather or Gordie.

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06-22-2010, 05:40 PM
  #92
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Lisin's numbers in the AHL were solid and he was coming off a 21 point in 48 game rookie year. That's really not that bad for a kid struggling to put his tools together.
Did you ever see him play back then? Probably not.

Stat watching is nice, but when you actually look at his game, its not like he was ever a difference maker.

And his 14 points this season were almost all in garbage time. He showed up when the game was already over.

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Old
06-22-2010, 06:13 PM
  #93
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I wasn't whining, grasshopper.
It wasn't so much your statements as it is the general sentiment and love affair with "good asset management". I mean, some assets are worth it, and some aren't. It was the same crap when Zherdev left, and how trading Tyutin was horrible asset management. I mean, what are we, fortune tellers? If Z or Lisin actually worked out, no one would have said a peep. RISKS. Some people fail to understand the negative side to them.

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06-22-2010, 06:47 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Did you ever see him play back then? Probably not.

Stat watching is nice, but when you actually look at his game, its not like he was ever a difference maker.

And his 14 points this season were almost all in garbage time. He showed up when the game was already over.
Uh, I absolutely did see him play. And he came off, as always, as one of those guys with a lot of tools (amazing skating, can turn on a dime, solid shot and passing) but with a lack of hockey sense. That's how he's been most of his career. Sometimes those guys can turn it around and become top 6 players, sometimes they can't. Lisin was the latter.

You really shouldn't accuse me of stat watching. I never comment on guys without watching them play. If I haven't seen someone, I'd mention it. I'm the last guy who would be stat watching. I find that pretty annoying to make that assumption on your part.

I bashed him all season because I thought he sucked, so I'm one of the last guys you'd expect defending the trade.

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Old
06-22-2010, 07:38 PM
  #95
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Most of the "brutal" trades with Phoenix were the Rangers dumping guys they no longer felt had a place in the organization. You can argue they could have gotten more for Montoya or Korpikoski or Dawes and Prucha, and in some cases I would agree with you (Dawes and Prucha for Morris isn't a real favorite trade of mine).

But you never win every trade no matter who you are. If Sather is going to lose trades, then I hope these are the kind that he loses. Low risk, moderate reward trades. If he's losing these but winning ones like the Gomez or Kotalik/Higgins trades, then fine.

And yes, I know the Gomez and Kotalik/Higgins trades are another example of bad asset management in a way, but I'm just kind of tired of how it feels like everything that doesn't work out is the worst thing in the world and Sather is the worst GM ever for not having all his minor and pretty meaningless trades work out.

There's plenty to bash Sather for without resorting to bickering over **** trades like the Lisin and Montoya trades

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06-22-2010, 08:53 PM
  #96
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offer him nothing more than a one year two way contract for 500K.

If he doesnt like it. Goodbye.

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06-22-2010, 09:09 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Maybe one of our more valuable players like Tippett did.
You keep going off of Tippett's quote, Renney probably said the same things or would've said the same things about guys like Sjostrom, Betts, etc.

Coaches love guys like Korpikoski but at the end of the day, there are plenty of guys with even more of a skillset than Korpi that are willing to play more than one forward position and kill penalties, block shots, etc.

Doesn't mean he's worth crap in a trade

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06-22-2010, 09:17 PM
  #98
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I still dont see how this was a a bad trade. We took a chance on a guy like Lisin. Korpikoski IS a very replacable type of player. He may be in the league for 10 years but that doesn't mean he's an overly special or irreplacable type. We have Weise, Byers, Etc. in the wings. The 4th line/PK also didnt seem to suffer too much without him.

We took a chance and it didnt work out. People are blowing this WAY out of proportion.

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06-22-2010, 09:20 PM
  #99
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To be fair, how many teams can say that in the past decade, they've had 3 or less first rounders turn into nothing? The draft is kind of a crap chute, especially outside of the top 5.

What was he really going to turn Korpikoski into? Lisin was the best value you could've asked for, it was a project player that showed some promise with 13 goals in 47 games. If he would've panned out, that's a top 6 player coming from a 4th line player being dealt.

And he did turn Montoya and Hossa into Sjostrom, who was pretty solid for us.
Yeah keep telling yourself those things if it makes you feel better. You can't try and put a positive spin when 3 of your first round picks BUST and you have nada to show for them when you claimed your team was rebuilding. The fan base knew how important those picks were at the time they were made so saying it's not a big deal now is kinda silly. Glen Sather has failed this franchise in every single way a GM can fail a team, yet he remains.

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06-22-2010, 09:24 PM
  #100
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I still dont see how this was a a bad trade. We took a chance on a guy like Lisin. Korpikoski IS a very replacable type of player. He may be in the league for 10 years but that doesn't mean he's an overly special or irreplacable type. We have Weise, Byers, Etc. in the wings. The 4th line/PK also didnt seem to suffer too much without him.

We took a chance and it didnt work out. People are blowing this WAY out of proportion.
I'm more pissed that we had both guys and both guys sucked. I had a feeling with Korp looking at his Euro numbers but the prospect experts on this board said no it's normal for young guys to have 1g and 4pts in two euro seasons of hockey. Korp had one amazing tournament on a really good line and we over valued him. Korpikoski should have been a 3rd rounder that we selected in the top 25. Terrible asset management and just bad scouting.

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