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Finding a taker for Roman Hamrlik, without taking much in salary back?

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Old
06-22-2010, 04:42 PM
  #51
MathMan
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Pouliot still needs to be given a chance, he is not done yet.
Maybe, but he's also not a top-6 forward yet. I wouldn't feel confident starting next season with him on the Gomez line. Bump him down to the third line where he gets to eat soft minutes with Eller, strut hisstuff, and build his confidence; and put a guy like Frolov alongside Gomez to handle the tough sledding.

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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
An upgrade on Andrei would at least give you another consistent option besides Gio or Cammy.
An upgrade on Andrei would cost more than Andrei and still leave you short one quality winger.

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Old
06-22-2010, 04:42 PM
  #52
vokiel
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Buying Hammer would be stupid. He can be moved at the deadline when his NTC expires. There's no sense extending a cap hit for another year.
Really so we should have no bought Laraque out? Come on...

Buying Hammer out is +1.8 mil for one extra year, not 5.5.

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06-22-2010, 04:43 PM
  #53
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One of these was largely goaltending and the other is not a sign of good defense if you're still getting outchanced and outshot 2-to-1. Blocking a lot of shots only means the other team always has the puck in your zone, bombing away. Not a good sign.
One could argue that its the forwards not putting enough pressure in the offensive zone and creating chances themselves. The defense more then held up their end of the bargain this playoffs, most of the forwards didn't.

I mean when you see Spacek and Markov out for more than a few games on defense, and the corps as a whole still doing a very good committee job on two of the best offenses, you have to say that our depth on defense is pretty good.

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06-22-2010, 04:45 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
cap space gives you the opportunity to sign UFA's or permit the flexibility to aggressively push for a trade without having to worry about unloading unwanted salary (which ultimately puts our GM in a position of strength and not weakness... if we have no cap space, other GM's will exploit this when trying to agree to a deal).
you mean like trading for Gomez and signing Cammalleri and Gionta?

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Old
06-22-2010, 04:46 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
An upgrade on Andrei would cost more than Andrei and still leave you short one quality winger.
Still leaves you short, but at the end of the day, it is still an upgrade. Moves can be made later to move in more depth on forward.

Something like:

Andrei Kostitsyn
Brock Trottier
1st rounder

for

Bryan Little
Spencer Machacek

Is just a reasonable example where upgrades can be made.

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06-22-2010, 04:48 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
One could argue that its the forwards not putting enough pressure in the offensive zone and creating chances themselves. The defense more then held up their end of the bargain this playoffs, most of the forwards didn't.
Defense is a team exercise; the whole team was out of whack. The Habs really need to have a more controlling offense if they want to get anywhere, but like I said -- it's well known that I don't see it as a personnel problem.

Besides, if you feel the forwards aren't doing a good enough job, wouldn't upgrading the forwards make sense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
the corps as a whole still doing a very good committee job on two of the best offenses, you have to say that our depth on defense is pretty good.
Or you have a very, very hot goaltender.

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Old
06-22-2010, 04:48 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Still leaves you short, but at the end of the day, it is still an upgrade. Moves can be made later to move in more depth on forward.

Something like:

Andrei Kostitsyn
Brock Trottier
1st rounder

for

Bryan Little
Spencer Machacek

Is just a reasonable example where upgrades can be made.
You realize Little is smaller and just had a worse year than Andrei?

This hate for Andrei is getting really annoying. He is not going to be moved unless we find a replacement for him with size.

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06-22-2010, 04:48 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Really so we should have no bought Laraque out? Come on...

Buying Hammer out is +1.8 mil for one extra year, not 5.5.
Why would you take on a 1.8 cap hit for another year if you can get rid of him freely after Feb 2011? Yo do realize this is the final year of his contract do you?

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Old
06-22-2010, 04:48 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Really so we should have no bought Laraque out? Come on...

Buying Hammer out is +1.8 mil for one extra year, not 5.5.
Hamrlik is MUCH more useful in the lineup than Laraque. Hamrlik played a very important role last year, and we still need him for next season.

It could be difficult to replace Hamrlik with another solid top 4 D this summer.

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Old
06-22-2010, 04:50 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Still leaves you short, but at the end of the day, it is still an upgrade.
Except AK does the job well enough, whereas Pouliot really doesn't. Trying to incrementally upgrade AK is barking up the wrong tree, IMHO, especially since AK might well incrementally upgrade on his own -- if he goes back to 2007-2008 form, the Habs'll be cooking there.

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Old
06-22-2010, 04:50 PM
  #61
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You realize Little is smaller and just had a worse year than Andrei?

This hate for Andrei is getting really annoying. He is not going to be moved unless we find a replacement for him with size.
You realize that size isn't everything and Little plays a foot bigger than Andrei?

I don't hate Andrei. But I saw one of the most inept and useless forwards this season, and he hasn't been good for two seasons now. He simply just doesn't have it between the ears.

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06-22-2010, 04:51 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
You realize Little is smaller and just had a worse year than Andrei?

This hate for Andrei is getting really annoying. He is not going to be moved unless we find a replacement for him with size.
the thing with Andrei it's he will likely have a good year next season. Contract year and can't do worse then last year. A 25 to 30 goals year if he stay healthy.

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Old
06-22-2010, 04:52 PM
  #63
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Stupidness. I would only move him if I could sign a good D-man or trade for one (I don't see this happening). Markov won't be ready at the beginning of the season....you need a guy like Hamr to step in.

Plus, Andrei has been getting banged up the last few seasons...if you can't get a veteran D man to replace him, I'm keeping him.

LOL @ buying him out...

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Old
06-22-2010, 04:52 PM
  #64
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Defense is a team exercise; the whole team was out of whack. The Habs really need to have a more controlling offense if they want to get anywhere, but like I said -- it's well known that I don't see it as a personnel problem.

Besides, if you feel the forwards aren't doing a good enough job, wouldn't upgrading the forwards make sense?



Or you have a very, very hot goaltender.
I am not going to bother getting into the same stupid debates with you, that every one of your posts seems to boil down to.

But there are upgrades made on the forwards, bringing in Eller, and upgrading Andrei, while adding depth to the bottom 6 are upgrades.

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Old
06-22-2010, 04:53 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
Why would you take on a 1.8 cap hit for another year if you can get rid of him freely after Feb 2011? Yo do realize this is the final year of his contract do you?
Because it gives 3.6 mil relief right away, couple this with the Kosties bros. hits and you have around 7.5 mil to play with ( some ~4.5 mil with SK only out). I mean you don't do it if you don't think he can be replaced within and if you can't find a decent winger with that kind of money for sure I agree.

Otherwise I'd take the risk of having Hammer out of the D core with a buy out for some decent winger and would give the spot on D to our farm.

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06-22-2010, 04:54 PM
  #66
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Except AK does the job well enough, whereas Pouliot really doesn't. Trying to incrementally upgrade AK is barking up the wrong tree, IMHO, especially since AK might well incrementally upgrade on his own -- if he goes back to 2007-2008 form, the Habs'll be cooking there.
If moving Hamrlik allows us to upgrade our top 6 without the need to loose Andrei I'm definitely up for it. I still like Akost and think he can be a wild card for the team. If however, I can't move Hammer and would need to shed Akost salary to improve the top 6 (for ex. signing Frolov) , I'd do it.

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06-22-2010, 04:54 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
No, you failed to understand. I said the odds of finding one are very low.

The odds of improving this team is a lot higher with an extra 5.5 M than via keeping an aging slow D-man who is costing us 5.5 M ... you fail to understand this.

Is Hamrlik a complete tool? no. Is he close to being worth 5.5? no. Can we make better use of this money? Yes.

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06-22-2010, 04:55 PM
  #68
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Because it gives 3.6 mil relief right away, couple this with the Kosties bros. hits and you have around 7.5 mil to play with ( some ~4.5 mil with SK only out). I mean you don't do it if you don't think he can be replaced within and if you can't find a decent winger with that kind of money for sure I agree.

Otherwise I'd take the risk of having Hammer out of the D core with a buy out for some decent winger and would give the spot on D to our farm.
Dude, buying out Hammer is a ridiculous move. Not only can you deal him for assets(a draft pick) at the very least. But then you are taking a hit next year on unnecessary cap space.

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06-22-2010, 04:56 PM
  #69
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The odds of improving this team is a lot higher with an extra 5.5 M than via keeping an aging slow D-man who is costing us 5.5 M ... you fail to understand this.

Is Hamrlik a complete tool? no. Is he close to being worth 5.5? no. Can we make better use of this money? Yes.
I think you fail to understand the difficulty of finding someone of Hamrlik's caliber in such a short period of time.

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06-22-2010, 04:57 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
You realize that size isn't everything and Little plays a foot bigger than Andrei?

I don't hate Andrei. But I saw one of the most inept and useless forwards this season, and he hasn't been good for two seasons now. He simply just doesn't have it between the ears.
Please. When he was scoring Andrei was our best forchecker in the PO. He hit everything and created turnovers.

We aren't the Chicago blackhawks who can just trade a 25g player for picks just to dump him

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06-22-2010, 04:58 PM
  #71
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I'd see Columbus take him for 1 year. With all hes done with Phaneuf and Subban he would be great alongside Fowler/Gudbranson/Gormley

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06-22-2010, 04:58 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Dude, buying out Hammer is a ridiculous move. Not only can you deal him for assets(a draft pick) at the very least. But then you are taking a hit next year on unnecessary cap space.
I think you overestimate the market for a 36 year old vet like him. Look at Phoenix, they signed Aucoin for 2 years ~2 mil per. Nobody is going to allow the Canadiens to off-load Hamrlik to them for a decent pick or any D that could replace him.

You want to go into the season with him and I'm fine with it, but that also means that there won't be any other high profile signings or trade for a winger and that I'm not so sure it will work.

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06-22-2010, 04:58 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Because it gives 3.6 mil relief right away, couple this with the Kosties bros. hits and you have around 7.5 mil to play with ( some ~4.5 mil with SK only out). I mean you don't do it if you don't think he can be replaced within and if you can't find a decent winger with that kind of money for sure I agree.

Otherwise I'd take the risk of having Hammer out of the D core with a buy out for some decent winger and would give the spot on D to our farm.
Personally the extra 3.6 right away isn't worth taking on an extra 1.8 for another season where we'd have Gorges and Markov's extensions to think about.

We're also not talking about deadwood here. If Markov's gone for the first couple of months, Hamrlik may prove to be invaluable. It sorta works out.

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06-22-2010, 04:59 PM
  #74
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I think you fail to understand the difficulty of finding someone of Hamrlik's caliber in such a short period of time.
I'd settle for a 2.75 M singing on D
and 2.75 M signing up front

You seem to overestimate the difficulty of achieving this!

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06-22-2010, 05:01 PM
  #75
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I'd settle for a 2.75 M singing on D
and 2.75 M signing up front

You seem to overestimate the difficulty of achieving this!
Yeah, and players that are signing $2.75 million in the UFA market are really going to greatly improve our team. That is ridiculous.

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