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Enver Lisin not given QO

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Old
06-22-2010, 09:25 PM
  #101
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by SouvenirCity View Post
A team can have only so many penalty killing 3rd/4th liners. We tried to catch lightning in a bottle with lisin and it didn't work out. Now it's time to move on.
Dead on. And that draft was so long ago everyone should just get over it already. No use crying over spilled milk. We're trending up with a lot of exciting youth and a real commitment to that youth. I swear it's like some people hear just enjoy feeling sorry for themselves.

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06-22-2010, 10:19 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Uh, I absolutely did see him play. And he came off, as always, as one of those guys with a lot of tools (amazing skating, can turn on a dime, solid shot and passing) but with a lack of hockey sense. That's how he's been most of his career. Sometimes those guys can turn it around and become top 6 players, sometimes they can't. Lisin was the latter.

You really shouldn't accuse me of stat watching. I never comment on guys without watching them play. If I haven't seen someone, I'd mention it. I'm the last guy who would be stat watching. I find that pretty annoying to make that assumption on your part.

I bashed him all season because I thought he sucked, so I'm one of the last guys you'd expect defending the trade.
You pointed out his stats, thats why I replied.

Sorry Jon, you and I have talked for a long time so I know you're not one of the young sprout lings who go off about the numbers, I just can't believe anyone would ever consider him a HR swing when he's never been known to be that at any level. Like you said, we took a chance. Its just funny how that you and I couldve traded an asset like LK for someone with more promise.

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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
You keep going off of Tippett's quote, Renney probably said the same things or would've said the same things about guys like Sjostrom, Betts, etc.

Coaches love guys like Korpikoski but at the end of the day, there are plenty of guys with even more of a skillset than Korpi that are willing to play more than one forward position and kill penalties, block shots, etc.

Doesn't mean he's worth crap in a trade
Tippett not only said it, he backed it up with putting LK out there in crucial situations. Why? Cause he felt bad for him? No cause he is a tough player to play against, he's the opposite of what we got in return. And LK is still only 24.

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Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
Dead on. And that draft was so long ago everyone should just get over it already. No use crying over spilled milk. We're trending up with a lot of exciting youth and a real commitment to that youth. I swear it's like some people hear just enjoy feeling sorry for themselves.
We're trending up?

Exciting youth, maybe, but any potential all stars in that bunch we can bank on like the other teams in our division?

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06-22-2010, 10:59 PM
  #103
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I remember when the last pick before us was called, Maloney was positively giddy that Korpikoski was available. Then when Korp got recalled, he scored on a laser beam in the playoffs and I was pumped.

But when he played for us in the regular season, he didn't show anything at all. Spare part 4th line forward, neither with the scoring touch or defensive sensibilities to be a specialist on any of the four lines. Marginal NHL player at best. Enjoy him Donnie.

As for Lisin, he didn't have anything that would make him an everyday player. End of story. Next.

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06-22-2010, 11:12 PM
  #104
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The funny thing about this debate is that it's exactly the same argument that went on when the trade went down last year. Those in favor said "well, it's trading a redundant part for a chance at a better player. If it doesn't work out, it's still the right move." Those against said "Korpi's an asset, even if he never plays higher than the third line; Lisin will be off the team in a year. So we should hang on to Lisin and try to somehow get more value out of him."

A year later, Lisin didn't blossom (to no one's particular surprise, including most of those in favor of the trade) and the arguments remain the same. Honestly, the only surprising thing about it is that this thread has now gone to 5 pages and counting.

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06-22-2010, 11:23 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Torts didn't like him... Whom, the hell, does he like? Callahan? Anisismov?
Seriously, name me young player he is good with.

Sad, all I can say... Torts cannot teach anyone anything. We are doomed.
He seems to be good with DUbi, CALLY, Arty, Staal, EC, MDZ... The problem with Enver is he cant be tought. Torts is just another coach to realize.

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06-22-2010, 11:37 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by SkerZ View Post
Hi

He seems to be good with DUbi, CALLY, Arty, Staal, EC, MDZ... The problem with Enver is he cant be tought. Torts is just another coach to realize.
Seems like a decent, young squad. Lisin, in my opinion, played with no heart. He just knew how to fly on ice.

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06-22-2010, 11:54 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
We're trending up?

Exciting youth, maybe, but any potential all stars in that bunch we can bank on like the other teams in our division?
I think you are a little confused here. An all star is not that uncommon. There are plenty of prospects and players that are potential all stars. Staal, Del Zotto, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Stepan, Kreider, Grachev and McDonagh all have all star potential.

If you meant to say super star, your comment would make sense.

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06-23-2010, 12:00 AM
  #108
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I apparently liked Korpikoski a lot more than many of you guys... This is a guy who hit post literally 9 times for us down the stretch... And I understand thats not a stat but this guys shot was a lot more accurate than people give him credit for.

I feel he was a small step away from being a steady 15 goal 25 assist player and maybe even a little more.

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06-23-2010, 12:50 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyNX27 View Post
I apparently liked Korpikoski a lot more than many of you guys... This is a guy who hit post literally 9 times for us down the stretch... And I understand thats not a stat but this guys shot was a lot more accurate than people give him credit for.

I feel he was a small step away from being a steady 15 goal 25 assist player and maybe even a little more.
Yeah maybe over the course of his career totals he can meet that. But he's shown no real reason to think he can put those numbers up in one year.

Korpedo's career numbers:
139 games played
11 goals
14 assists

Last years numbers:
71 games played
5 goals
6 assists

He regressed offensively (it's hard to believe since he only went 6 goals 8 assists in 68 games with us)

The trade made sense. We don't need another bottom six guy.

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06-23-2010, 01:00 AM
  #110
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I'm disappointed, not with the Rangers, but with Lisin. He played much better the previous year in Phoenix. I don't know why he regressed last year. Oh well...

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06-23-2010, 01:08 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundqvist4Vezina View Post
Seems like a decent, young squad. Lisin, in my opinion, played with no heart. He just knew how to fly on ice.
I don't think heart was the problem, he just didn't have much in his toolbox. He could fly, and that was it. His lack of success never seemed to be from a lack of trying or wanting to succeed, he just wasn't that great with the puck and was terribly soft.

The worst part was he'd try to hit and seemingly just bounce off of guys, so it wasn't like he wasn't TRYING to be physical either.

He also fits nowhere on a 4th line. Scoring line or bust for that guy.

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06-23-2010, 03:19 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Cally Is Overrated View Post
Fail trade. Korpedo was a great bottom 6 forward. Lisin is useless.

And bottom 6 is our strength. You win some and you lose some ... big deal. I wont lose any sleep over it.

Nice seeing ya Enver.

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06-23-2010, 06:27 AM
  #113
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Lisin had some nice games. I didnt mind the trade as much as I mind drafting Korpedo ahead of Zajac, Mezsaros and Green

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06-23-2010, 06:41 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
I think you are a little confused here. An all star is not that uncommon. There are plenty of prospects and players that are potential all stars. Staal, Del Zotto, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Stepan, Kreider, Grachev and McDonagh all have all star potential.

If you meant to say super star, your comment would make sense.
Yeah, I'm the one confused

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06-23-2010, 08:03 AM
  #115
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Something just occured to me about the way Zip reports this:

Quote:
RFA Enver Lisin did not receive qualifying offer.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...notes-1.811976

Isn't the implication from this statement that everyone else then DID get a QO? I mean, I'd assume that the team is planning on negotiating with Staal and Girardi, but can we assume that they as well as Prust, EC and the guys in the minors (particularly Sauer) did get offered QOs at the least as formalities?

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06-23-2010, 08:05 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
I'm disappointed, not with the Rangers, but with Lisin. He played much better the previous year in Phoenix. I don't know why he regressed last year. Oh well...
john tortorella.

that why.

he went from loving the kid

Also, asked about Enver Lisin, Tortorella said "I'm pretty sure he'll start here, we want him around us to teach him."

"We see a lot of skill in him," Tortorella said of Lisin..."sometimes I have to take a chance to put him in more offensive situations, if Higgins isn't going well or Cally isn't going.

On Lisin

Hes a guy who can skate with skill, but wed like him to fit in the game a little bit better. Right now, were going to give [Corey Locke] a chance to produce some offense. Im not sure how much time hell get, well see how it goes. With Lis, I just dont want us getting hurt by a lapse defensively and thats still a work in progress with him.

Other than that, the forward lines from yesterday's practice should hold for the start, with Enver Lisin getting his shot at playing with the top line alongside Vinny Prospal and Marian Gaborik. Asked what impresses him about Lisin's game, Tortorella quickly said "His speed," adding that "I think he's a quick learner - I mean, he's still just a kid trying to adjust to a new team, a trade, a new team concept." Tortorella was reminded that during the preseason he said that Lisin was a kid who "doesn't have a clue in his own zone," but apparently the coach has seen strides in that department, too

"He's improved - and he DIDN'T have a clue. But he's improved," Torts said. "That's what I like about him. I think he understands the game, I think he respects the game, in where he knows those things are going to get him more ice time - if he is able to do some things on the wall, take care of the puck defensively and understand that part of the game.

"He's learned - he still has a ways to go, he's still just a kid. But I think he has shown us it's been a little bit of a two-way street, that he has been patient, he has tried to work at the other parts of his game. We've got some guys that aren't doing it offensively right now, so we're gonna give him a chance there.

to this.

Enver Lisin spent the entire game on the Rangers bench Saturday.

Lisin dressed, but coach John Tortorella didn't give him a single shift. "If I had someone else here, I would've taken him out of the lineup," Tortorella said. Lisin, meet Tortorella's doghouse - this is your new home now.

torts is a class a ********. the media does not respect this guy.

hes a huge hypocrite. he deflects blame and assumes none of it himself.

he acts like a bully and seems very vindictive and immature. he does not represent this organization in a way that make your proud of him.

you would not want your kids watching a torts presser. thats for sure.

his line combos were a mess. his micro managing everything worse.

and he had the gal to call out gaborik after the season

"I wasn't crazy about the room," the pull-no-punches Tortorella said Tuesday as the Rangers packed up for the summer. "That isn't an indictment of (captain) Chris Drury or Ryan Callahan or our leadership group. I think some people need to be weeded out of there. It's certainly not our core people.

We played a (gutsy) game against Philly in our building and we had zero top guys show up in Philly, which was despicable," Tortorella said. "I think Gaborik's a legitimate star but I don't like the way he has played in big games. I think he needs to cross the line there, but we've got some pieces here.

awful, awful. period.

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06-23-2010, 08:39 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
A year later, Lisin didn't blossom (to no one's particular surprise, including most of those in favor of the trade) and the arguments remain the same. Honestly, the only surprising thing about it is that this thread has now gone to 5 pages and counting.
Probably because the whole thing just embodies, illustrates and highlights a failed decade for the Rangers. Brutal first round selections, inexplicable asset management, lateral moves, reclamation projects, skewed expectations, etc.

It's not just a trade that didn't pan out. It's a case study in how Glen Sather's NYR go about their business.

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06-23-2010, 09:09 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
john tortorella.

that why.

he went from loving the kid

Also, asked about Enver Lisin, Tortorella said "I'm pretty sure he'll start here, we want him around us to teach him."

"We see a lot of skill in him," Tortorella said of Lisin..."sometimes I have to take a chance to put him in more offensive situations, if Higgins isn't going well or Cally isn't going.

On Lisin

Hes a guy who can skate with skill, but wed like him to fit in the game a little bit better. Right now, were going to give [Corey Locke] a chance to produce some offense. Im not sure how much time hell get, well see how it goes. With Lis, I just dont want us getting hurt by a lapse defensively and thats still a work in progress with him.

Other than that, the forward lines from yesterday's practice should hold for the start, with Enver Lisin getting his shot at playing with the top line alongside Vinny Prospal and Marian Gaborik. Asked what impresses him about Lisin's game, Tortorella quickly said "His speed," adding that "I think he's a quick learner - I mean, he's still just a kid trying to adjust to a new team, a trade, a new team concept." Tortorella was reminded that during the preseason he said that Lisin was a kid who "doesn't have a clue in his own zone," but apparently the coach has seen strides in that department, too

"He's improved - and he DIDN'T have a clue. But he's improved," Torts said. "That's what I like about him. I think he understands the game, I think he respects the game, in where he knows those things are going to get him more ice time - if he is able to do some things on the wall, take care of the puck defensively and understand that part of the game.

"He's learned - he still has a ways to go, he's still just a kid. But I think he has shown us it's been a little bit of a two-way street, that he has been patient, he has tried to work at the other parts of his game. We've got some guys that aren't doing it offensively right now, so we're gonna give him a chance there.

to this.

Enver Lisin spent the entire game on the Rangers bench Saturday.

Lisin dressed, but coach John Tortorella didn't give him a single shift. "If I had someone else here, I would've taken him out of the lineup," Tortorella said. Lisin, meet Tortorella's doghouse - this is your new home now.

torts is a class a ********. the media does not respect this guy.

hes a huge hypocrite. he deflects blame and assumes none of it himself.

he acts like a bully and seems very vindictive and immature. he does not represent this organization in a way that make your proud of him.

you would not want your kids watching a torts presser. thats for sure.

his line combos were a mess. his micro managing everything worse.

and he had the gal to call out gaborik after the season

"I wasn't crazy about the room," the pull-no-punches Tortorella said Tuesday as the Rangers packed up for the summer. "That isn't an indictment of (captain) Chris Drury or Ryan Callahan or our leadership group. I think some people need to be weeded out of there. It's certainly not our core people.

We played a (gutsy) game against Philly in our building and we had zero top guys show up in Philly, which was despicable," Tortorella said. "I think Gaborik's a legitimate star but I don't like the way he has played in big games. I think he needs to cross the line there, but we've got some pieces here.

awful, awful. period.
LOL, so it's Tort's fault Lisin sucks? Give me a break dude.... If all our young players had a rough year, I would agree with you. But just 1 had a bad year. And it just so happens to be the same guy who has been suck fest for some time now.

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06-23-2010, 09:59 AM
  #119
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Dead on. And that draft was so long ago everyone should just get over it already. No use crying over spilled milk. We're trending up with a lot of exciting youth and a real commitment to that youth. I swear it's like some people hear just enjoy feeling sorry for themselves.
Let's see how we're trending...

2008 Win a playoff round, lose in the second round
2009 Lose in the first playoff round
2010 Miss the playoffs

Yeah, we're trending right up the charts. Good call.

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06-23-2010, 11:17 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Lisin's numbers in the AHL were solid and he was coming off a 21 point in 48 game rookie year. That's really not that bad for a kid struggling to put his tools together.
In 70 AHL games he scored 20 goals and 23 assists for 43 points between the ages of 20-22. Considering he was supposed to be a "scorer" that's just not very encouraging. If the kid can't put the toolbox together at the lower levels, he's not going to suddenly do it at the NHL level. Even the kids who take time to find their NHL scoring touch were at least putting up better numbers at the lower levels.

And again, having watched quite a few Phoenix games, his rookie year was not that impressive. On a losing team, he was given every opportunity and still was barely passable for what was given to him.

Again, none of this even remotely points to a homerun swing.

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06-23-2010, 11:21 AM
  #121
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Horrible trade Korpi was a good all around player, Lisin was not. Korpi added energy every shift cant say the same about Lisin.

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06-23-2010, 11:22 AM
  #122
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He's good with:

Dubinsky, Anisimov, Callahan, Staal and Girardi. All of these players were better at the end of the year than at the beginning of it.
I would discount Staal and Girardy first of. Them, as well as MDZ, are defensemen, Torts stays away from Ds since he is forward specialist. He can bench one here and there for bad penalty, but, I am sure, he voices his opinion only on forwards and uses Sullivan input on Ds. I am not sure about Anisimov, whatever Art is saying about his coach may politically motivated, plus Sather keeps eye on the Russian and wants Torts be careful with kid given his price/contribution ratio. Thus, I think Torts keeps it quiet, although Anisimov is anything but spectacular, no better than Dubi in his rookie year. Speaking of Dubi, his demotion to wing doesn't represent any Torts favor. That leaves Callahan as the only one that Torts is sympathetic to. But Callahan is a finished product, he was such before Torts arrival. That explains why Lisin is out. Enver needs coaching. Torts cannot teach, he can help a veteran, he cannot develop.

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06-23-2010, 11:36 AM
  #123
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Enver was very well liked by his team mates. I guess they will be sad to see him go. Bet the brass wishes they didn't have to "qualify" Redden, Drury and others to suit up here again. Talk about unqualified! LOL

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06-23-2010, 11:43 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Let's see how we're trending...

2008 Win a playoff round, lose in the second round
2009 Lose in the first playoff round
2010 Miss the playoffs

Yeah, we're trending right up the charts. Good call.
that's a shallow analysis. we've gotten much younger, our drafting has been amazing, and we have the best of our young talent on the brink of playing in the garden. so yeah we are trending up.

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06-23-2010, 11:49 AM
  #125
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that's a shallow analysis. we've gotten much younger, our drafting has been amazing, and we have the best of our young talent on the brink of playing in the garden. so yeah we are trending up.
No it hasn't. Our drafting has been par. They're making the team, yes, but we still have to rely too heavily on UFA's because none of these amazingly drafted prospects are capable of carrying the torch. The bar is set much too low on this forum.

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