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To Fight Or Not To Fight?

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Old
09-30-2003, 07:48 PM
  #1
galactus
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To Fight Or Not To Fight?

Does Montreal have any tough guy on the team that can win a fight?

I saw the Leafs and Habs game and Carpentier got destroyed in his fight and Dwyer is a punching bag. I think we should address this problem and soon as it sure does not give any of the Habs player any comfort out their.

Also in the Leaf and Habs game the only players that played well where

The Good

Garon - Great in net, score should of been worse.

Ryder - strong in the corners, still needs time.

Higgins - is improving and be make it to the team soon.

Pletanec - strong in corners, and great speed he was without a doubt the best player on the ice for the Habs.

The Bad

Perezogin - was invisible and I was very
disapointed with him, he look like he just did not belong.

And almost the rest of the Habs team.


The Ugly

Ron Hainsey - he almost score but he hit the post from the point. He was always running around in his own net and was always out of position. he had a lot of ugly give aways also.

Carpentier - What a ugly beating he took.

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Old
09-30-2003, 07:58 PM
  #2
Mike8
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I'm a huge fan of tough hockey. I love agitators, fights, and all that fun stuff. But goons are useless. Who cares about winning fights. Just have people capable of fighting and I'm fine. Dwyer won't win his fights but he'll lay a beating on the opponent. Sure, he'll take a larger portion of the beating, but who are you gonna learn more of a lesson from: a guy who you'll beat, but will also give you a few cuts, bumps and bruises, or a guy who holds onto you and you'll each combine for around four or five punches thrown?

Most 'goons' are defensive fighters that don't inflict any pain on the opponent. I would say Dwyer is actually one of the BEST enforcers in the league because he actually does his job. He'll go out there and inflict some pain (and take a heck of a lot more) on anyone that takes exceptions with Hab players.

Get a few more players that can fight (and play hockey), and Montreal would be on its way to being a tough hockey team. As it stands, Souray, Quintal, Dwyer are all very capable fighters, but are all more middle-heavy weights.

Take a look at a team like St.Louis. They are my favourite team in the league (in terms of how it's built). Very tough hockey team, probably one of the toughest in the league. Yet they have no clear cut heavyweights. Reed Low is smallish for a heavyweight, and is never dressed in key games or in the playoffs.

They have Dallas Drake (agitator), Danton (agitator who can fight middle weights), Tkachuk (prefers stickwork but is still a tough guy), Jackman (good middle weight), Mellanby (very fiery character; captain material -- warrior. Precisely what the Habs lack), Mayers (agitator), etc. Most of their team is built around players that are fiery, will stick up for one another, play the body a lot, but don't fight a heck of a lot. THey can intimidate as well as anyone, and get involved in major brawls (see: game against Stars; game against Wings last season), but they don't have heavyweights to compete with the Brashears, Laraques, Worrells, etc. of the league.

Does this affect them? No. It's team toughness that Montreal lacks, not individual goons. We need a collective team toughness effort here. No goon in the league will make this team tough.

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09-30-2003, 08:24 PM
  #3
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Quintal is a heavyweight. He can go at it with the best fighters in the league. He's just not an enforcer like Worell or Laraque.

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09-30-2003, 08:35 PM
  #4
Munchausen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
I'm a huge fan of tough hockey. I love agitators, fights, and all that fun stuff. But goons are useless. Who cares about winning fights. Just have people capable of fighting and I'm fine. Dwyer won't win his fights but he'll lay a beating on the opponent. Sure, he'll take a larger portion of the beating, but who are you gonna learn more of a lesson from: a guy who you'll beat, but will also give you a few cuts, bumps and bruises, or a guy who holds onto you and you'll each combine for around four or five punches thrown?

Most 'goons' are defensive fighters that don't inflict any pain on the opponent. I would say Dwyer is actually one of the BEST enforcers in the league because he actually does his job. He'll go out there and inflict some pain (and take a heck of a lot more) on anyone that takes exceptions with Hab players.

Get a few more players that can fight (and play hockey), and Montreal would be on its way to being a tough hockey team. As it stands, Souray, Quintal, Dwyer are all very capable fighters, but are all more middle-heavy weights.

Take a look at a team like St.Louis. They are my favourite team in the league (in terms of how it's built). Very tough hockey team, probably one of the toughest in the league. Yet they have no clear cut heavyweights. Reed Low is smallish for a heavyweight, and is never dressed in key games or in the playoffs.

They have Dallas Drake (agitator), Danton (agitator who can fight middle weights), Tkachuk (prefers stickwork but is still a tough guy), Jackman (good middle weight), Mellanby (very fiery character; captain material -- warrior. Precisely what the Habs lack), Mayers (agitator), etc. Most of their team is built around players that are fiery, will stick up for one another, play the body a lot, but don't fight a heck of a lot. THey can intimidate as well as anyone, and get involved in major brawls (see: game against Stars; game against Wings last season), but they don't have heavyweights to compete with the Brashears, Laraques, Worrells, etc. of the league.

Does this affect them? No. It's team toughness that Montreal lacks, not individual goons. We need a collective team toughness effort here. No goon in the league will make this team tough.
I like your outlook on things regarding toughness as I pretty much feel the same. That's why I'm particularly high on players like Higgins, Ryder, Ward, Komisarek, Souray, Dwyer, Quintal, Lapierre, Ferland and to a lesser extend Rivet (from 2 years ago) as they do (or will/could if you prefer) make us an overall tougher team (I think Souray and Komo are the big pieces here). All I would want to complete the package is 1 or 2 mean and tough top-9 forwards to make us an overall balanced team with balanced lines. If we could just add 1 or 2 mean and nasty forwards to our team I think this obsessive thing about getting ourselves a Parker or Worell would die by itself as people would come to realize that we don't need ONE guy to strike fear, but a team that plays an intense, nasty physical game as a whole and therefore that do not need a useless untalented goon to massacre an other goon every night just for the sake of saying we have a protector. A team strikes fear when it no longer needs a designated fighter to defend its players.

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Old
10-01-2003, 03:47 AM
  #5
Bob Bastards
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I am with Mike8 and Munchausen on this one, goon are useless and most of the time take bad penalty that cause you more problem. Overall toughness is the key. Dwyer is fine for me as bonafida tough guy. Is mean and is not afraid to stand up for is teammate. I also find him sound defensively and is skating is more then OK.

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Old
10-01-2003, 04:45 AM
  #6
skidboot
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I too would love to have a few players come to play a mean and nasty game.

The opposition IMO takes liberties on us because of our passive style of hockey.
I don't think there is a team in the NHL who fears from a physical standpoint having to play the Habs.

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Old
10-01-2003, 05:32 AM
  #7
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The best way to discourage other teams from using size as an advantage is by scoring on the power play. Scoring goals always worked in the old days. You can intmidate with size and/or speed. Our problem is we have too many guys who offer neither. In the playoffs in the early 70's, Chicago sent King Kong Korab to lineup against Cournoyer at a faceoff. Korab said something to the effect of "What are you going to be when you grow up ?" Cournoyer replied, "A goalscorer." The Habs won that year. I do realize that it's not 1974 and Cournoyer is a carpenter now, but you need a combination of speed and toughness to win. Skidboot calls it a passive style and I agree. The Habs need to play tough before the whistle blows, not after. The type of player that Mike8 describes is what we need. The guys we define as goons or heavyweights, usually fight each other. Tough play is what guys like Stevens do during the play.

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