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06-24-2010, 12:50 PM
  #101
BigKing
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Originally Posted by JMFJ 3 View Post
I think at this point it's more likely we acquire Gleason than Kovy, Carolina seems willing to move him.
No. They do not seem willing to move him. Absolutely no reason to do so unless they receive a significant overpayment.

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06-24-2010, 12:54 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
There is SOME luck involved but you make a whole lot of assumptions. LIke the Hossa situation, how do you know Nashville would have won that game if Hossa was kicked out? That makes no sense. I think that was the first goal of the playoffs wasn't it? Chicago is a good team, a favorite going into the playoffs and there is no luck involved in that.

Wanna talk about luck? Talk about Montreal. Sure they played great and they earned their way to the Conference finals but they got REALLY lucky that both Pittsburgh and Washington **** the bed.

We don't have to overspend for one chance. I don't get this whole doom and gloom scenario around the 2011/2012 season. I posted the numbers in the last thread, please show me where the problem is. The biggest problem is Smyth's salary but even he could be worked in if necessary and it doesn't rely upon the Kings filling the roster with prospects. The Kings can sign Kovalchuk this season and remain competitive through 11/12. After 2011/2012 and Smyth's contract comes off the books, they'll be in very good shape. The Kings would be no where near Chicago's situation.
First of all, please don't omit paragraphs where I completely agree with you just to prove a point. I agreed that Chicago was the best team going into the season and the best team going into the playoffs. But my larger point is that there ARE so many hypothetical situations that things are never a lock. Look at Washington. Why couldn't Washington's failure happened to Chicago? There is a reason the games are played and it is because so much can happen. Chicago was by no means a lock to win the Stanley Cup at any point of the playoffs. (Well except after the Kane OT winner).

But to the larger topic at hand about spending. There needs to be a limit on what the Kings will spend on Kovalchuk. There has to be. After Marleau taking what some people are calling a discount at 6.9, Kovalchuk indicating he wants to get paid, and raises due for Doughty, Johnson, and Simmonds where do you cap it out at?

I'm just really uncomfortable giving Kovalchuk 8 million a year or more when Doughty can command upwards of 7, Jack around 5 or 6, Simmonds around 3, and a premiere goalie and backup upwards of 5. The Kings would right up against the cap with little to no flexibility.

The reason I'm so hesitant to give Kovalchuk a large sum of money is because the Kings only needed to score fourteen more goals during five on five play to be one of the top ten teams in the league. Kovalchuk would be nice ... but the Kings aren't as desperate as everyone makes them out to be.

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06-24-2010, 12:59 PM
  #103
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Barry says, "Don't be surprised if Jon Quick is moved"

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06-24-2010, 01:00 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by DAkings20 View Post
Barry says, "Don't be surprised if Jon Quick is moved"
Barry says lots of things. I wouldn't be surprised if he's wrong again.

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06-24-2010, 01:02 PM
  #105
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I just hope to god we don't trade for Hartnell.

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:03 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
Winning a championship in any sport requires luck. It would have taken luck for a low-salary team like Nashville to win the Cup as well.

Chicago was in a better position to make their own luck, as it were. The old saying of "that's why they play the game" is very true. Bounces go one way, calls go one way etc...

Not enough logic involved in this post actually. If you want to insinuate that Chicago won the Cup solely due to luck, than you are ignorant. Saying it takes luck to win the Cup as an argument against signing Kovalchuk makes no sense.
No, I think the person that wrote the post was insinuating that Chicago got lucky to win it the 1st year that they were really contenders and that doesn't happen very often.

He also correctly points out that if things hadn't played out exactly the way they did in the East, then Chicago probably doesn't win in the Finals. Obviously, winning soothes a lot of the cap issues that they have now. If they would have played a team like Pittsburgh in the Finals it might have be a different story today.

Chicago won it. Good for them, but I think it isn't the example to follow.

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:03 PM
  #107
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Quick on the trading block/Tim Thomas to LA?

http://*************.blogspot.com/
we will see

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:04 PM
  #108
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Lebrun:


Quote:
@AdamBabadam Lombardi told me today Quick NOT in play.

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:05 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFlaPanthers View Post
No way. Absolutely no way Thomas becomes a King or Quick gets traded.

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:06 PM
  #110
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I knew Quick wasn't going anywhere. I can see us moving Zatkoff now, though.

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06-24-2010, 01:06 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Shellz View Post
Lebrun:
Hopefully this shuts up Eklund and his cronie.

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:07 PM
  #112
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Thomas! What the %#$@? Why would we take that god awful salary.

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:08 PM
  #113
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someone needs to post that lebrun quote all over the trade board so people see it

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:08 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Thomas! What the %#$@? Why would we take that god awful salary.
Don't worry, that site makes Eklund look like Dan Rather. They have zero credibility.

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:09 PM
  #115
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Well, we really shouldn't be surprised by Quick rumors. I think we all pretty much expect Bernier to take over the reign sometime this year. I guess it's the timing of the rumor that is somewhat surprising. But then again, Bernier/Eberg works for me as well.

I just hope we package him with one of our dman prospects and land a big time player.

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:11 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBrown View Post
Absolutely. I agree with pretty much everything you said here but you said it yourself earlier, "Williams is gone next year, that is Doughty's raise all by itself". That's not exactly true and that was what I was trying to say. In that case Williams himself needs to be replaced and if you say Simmonds can move up you are missing the point.
Moller or Loktionov? They could both be a better option than Williams with Kopitar and Kovalchuk. Both have a lower cap hit than Williams. That is why you draft players, you need to always have younger, cheaper players available.

The cap will keep going up...

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:12 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by DAkings20 View Post
someone needs to post that lebrun quote all over the trade board so people see it
Oh come on, anyone can see it's just posturing

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:12 PM
  #118
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Now that we know Quick's not going anywhere, it's almost obvious that our only option is Kovalchuk. Who is DL gonna trade now that would land us a big LW?

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:16 PM
  #119
Buddy The Elf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chruceg View Post
First of all, please don't omit paragraphs where I completely agree with you just to prove a point. I agreed that Chicago was the best team going into the season and the best team going into the playoffs. But my larger point is that there ARE so many hypothetical situations that things are never a lock. Look at Washington. Why couldn't Washington's failure happened to Chicago? There is a reason the games are played and it is because so much can happen. Chicago was by no means a lock to win the Stanley Cup at any point of the playoffs. (Well except after the Kane OT winner).
That was completely unintentional. But you are right, that is why they play the games and something like Pittsburgh or Washington happens just about every year. But to be honest, when Washington choked, I was surprised but not shocked. That kind of thing happens in the playoffs especially to a team that is completely offensive minded. Chicago was a great offensive team but they had the big defensive players. I personally saw them as a lock to win the Cup and was not the least bit surprised they did. But again, anything CAN happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chruceg View Post
But to the larger topic at hand about spending. There needs to be a limit on what the Kings will spend on Kovalchuk. There has to be. After Marleau taking what some people are calling a discount at 6.9, Kovalchuk indicating he wants to get paid, and raises due for Doughty, Johnson, and Simmonds where do you cap it out at?

I'm just really uncomfortable giving Kovalchuk 8 million a year or more when Doughty can command upwards of 7, Jack around 5 or 6, Simmonds around 3, and a premiere goalie and backup upwards of 5. The Kings would right up against the cap with little to no flexibility.

The reason I'm so hesitant to give Kovalchuk a large sum of money is because the Kings only needed to score fourteen more goals during five on five play to be one of the top ten teams in the league. Kovalchuk would be nice ... but the Kings aren't as desperate as everyone makes them out to be.
I agree there should be a limit. I don't think I'd go over $8m but I would have to assume, DL being a dilligent as he is, will have an idea what it is going to cost to re-sign Doughty et al. I will say that I certainly hope Jack isn't expecting $6m because he isn't worth it unless he pulls a Doughty like performance this season. If Simmonds commands anything over $3m, it will be because he put up Top 6 number in which case Justin Wiliams is completely expendable and that 3rd/4th line role can be filled by a cheap UFA or prospect.

Then as far as Bernier goes, he'll be coming off his first NHL season. I just don't see how he commands anything over $2m on his next deal. He more than likely won't even get enough games to justify it. And in the event he is lights out, well say good bye to Quick.

I do agree the Kings aren't desperate but I don't see how Kovalchuk hurts the team. As long as he doesn't get a NTC, you will always have flexibility no matter how dire the situation gets. Either way, I'll be happy as long as the team is improved. I'm not on the Kovalchuk or bust bandwagon but I think people are being a tad dramatic on the opposite end of the spectrum. It CAN be done without putting the Kings in a Chicago-like situation.

Since I doubt anyone is going to go back to the old thread, here are my numbers I posted. I don't know how to make a chart so if somebody would like to tell me, I'll fix it so it is more readable.

Quote:
Player 2011/2012 Actual 2011/2012 Proposed
Forwards
Kopitar, Anze $6,800,000 $6,800,000
Smyth, Ryan $6,250,000 $6,250,000
Handzus, Michal UFA $2,250,000
Stoll, Jarret $3,600,000 Traded!
Williams, Justin UFA N/A
Brown, Dustin $3,175,000 $3,175,000
Parse, Scott $900,000 $900,000
Simmonds, Wayne RFA $2,000,000
Schenn, Brayden $900,000 $900,000
Richardson, Brad $1,400,000 $1,400,000
Westgarth, Kevin $525,000 $525,000
Clifford, Kyle $900,000 $900,000
Kovalchuk, Ilya $8,000,000 $8,000,000
UFA
UFA

Defensemen
Doughty, Drew RFA $6,000,000
Scuderi, Rob $3,400,000 $3,400,000
Greene, Matt $2,950,000 $2,950,000
Johnson, Jack RFA $3,000,000
Drewiske, Davis $616,667 $616,667
UFA D-man $2,000,000 $2,000,000
Hickey, Thomas $1,316,667 $1,316,667
Goalies
Quick, Jonathan $1,800,000 $1,800,000
Bernier, Jonathan RFA $1,800,000

Total: $44,533,334 $55,983,334
This is for 21 players, assumes Stoll is traded w/ Schenn/Richardson filling his role and leaves $3m for two more forwards. All of this assuming the CAP doesn't go up which it more than likely will.

I see people complaining about depth if Kovalchuk is signed. Well what do you think a trade for Patrick Sharp, Simon Gagne or anyoe else is going to cost? What does that do to our depth?

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:17 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cook24 View Post
Now that we know Quick's not going anywhere, it's almost obvious that our only option is Kovalchuk. Who is DL gonna trade now that would land us a big LW?
Their really is no other big-time LW out there. If he fails to land Kovalchuk, he'll go get a 25-30 goal LW and upgrade on the back-end.

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:19 PM
  #121
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Personally, I think we own Kovy's rights and he is already signed. They just want to wait for tomorrow to announce it.

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06-24-2010, 01:19 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
Their really is no other big-time LW out there. If he fails to land Kovalchuk, he'll go get a 25-30 goal LW and upgrade on the back-end.
So, in other words, we will re-sign Frolov?

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:21 PM
  #123
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chruceg View Post
I'm just really uncomfortable giving Kovalchuk 8 million a year or more when Doughty can command upwards of 7, Jack around 5 or 6, Simmonds around 3, and a premiere goalie and backup upwards of 5. The Kings would right up against the cap with little to no flexibility.
You could easily get all of those contracts for $1 million less each. Your estimates are way too high.

You really think that Bernier will get $3.2 million with his next contract when Quick is only making $1.8 million?

Jack at almost $6 million? No way, he will get Seabrook money at the most, $3.5 million.

Simmonds would be extremely lucky to get a Brown type contract at $3 million, more likely he will get around $2 million.


Signing Kovalchuk would make it a lot easier to get other players to sign for less to keep the team together and make a legitimate 3-4 year run at the cup.

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:23 PM
  #124
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
Personally, I think we own Kovy's rights and he is already signed. They just want to wait for tomorrow to announce it.
I like your thinking, but no way would this be quiet....Wouldn't the Kings have to send the contract to the league for approval? That would get leaked by someone (capgeek is pretty fast with the updates).

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:26 PM
  #125
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I may be wrong but I still think JJ will go to Pittsburgh to play with his BFF and be the man.

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