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06-24-2010, 01:27 PM
  #126
DeeMeck
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I like your thinking, but no way would this be quiet....Wouldn't the Kings have to send the contract to the league for approval? That would get leaked by someone (capgeek is pretty fast with the updates).
They don't have to send it to the league while the ink is wet.

Just wait to send it until tomorrow morning

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06-24-2010, 01:27 PM
  #127
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I think Dee is right, at least I hope hes right.

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06-24-2010, 01:30 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Chruceg View Post
You're damn right it was luck.

What happens if Hossa gets kicked out of game five of the Nashville series like he should have? Nashville goes up 3-2 with a game at home. What happens if Toews, Kane, or Niemi gets hurt in the playoffs? What happens if Philly scores in overtime of game six? What happens Halak doesn't play out of his mind and Washington or Pittsburgh rolls to the Stanley Cup Finals?

I completely agree that Chicago was the best built team in the NHL this past year. But winning the Stanley Cup relies too much on little bounces, freak injuries, and unlikely supporting guys to say anything with certainty.

Also, I've never said not to spend money. Please don't build a straw man argument here. There is a difference between the way that Detroit spends to the cap and the way Chicago spent to the cap. There will be a time when LA spends up to the cap. It may even be this year but overspending for only one CHANCE at the cup is illogical and most likely going to end in heartache.
I don't buy all that luck stuff, the same goes for every other team in the playoffs too. So basically every single team that has won the Cup did so because of luck? What if Gretzky & Messier got hurt in 1981? What if Crosby got hurt last year? It's all hindsight, but none of that happened and they won the Cup.

And are you saying that if we sign Kovalchuk this year we only have next year as our chance to win? How do you figure? I think it will give us a chance for years to come. If we have Kovy, Kopitar, Doughty, Johnson, Bernier, Simmonds, Brown, Schenn signed for the next 5 or 6 years, how do we only have one chance?

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06-24-2010, 01:31 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
Personally, I think we own Kovy's rights and he is already signed. They just want to wait for tomorrow to announce it.
Now, that's what I'm talking about!!!!!

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06-24-2010, 01:33 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
No, I think the person that wrote the post was insinuating that Chicago got lucky to win it the 1st year that they were really contenders and that doesn't happen very often.

He also correctly points out that if things hadn't played out exactly the way they did in the East, then Chicago probably doesn't win in the Finals. Obviously, winning soothes a lot of the cap issues that they have now. If they would have played a team like Pittsburgh in the Finals it might have be a different story today.

Chicago won it. Good for them, but I think it isn't the example to follow.
You don't have to follow Chicago. Chicago is in a pretty unique situation. They are by far the furthest in CAP trouble we've seen a team since the CBA has been signed. Nobody else has been remotely close. Kovalchuk just doesn't bring the Kings to that point. Especially if he isn't given a NTC.

Then the flipside of that, if the Kings make prudent moves for the next few seasons while the players "develop" etc., we'll be in a perpetual state of building the contender making small progress every year. By the time the team is ready to compete, Kopitar's contract will probably be expiring. Bringing a guy like Kovalchuk could actually motivate the team to take it to the next level whereas remaining stagnate or making small impovements each offseason could frustrate them.

What do i know? I work in insurance for a reason!

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06-24-2010, 01:35 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
And are you saying that if we sign Kovalchuk this year we only have next year as our chance to win? How do you figure? I think it will give us a chance for years to come. If we have Kovy, Kopitar, Doughty, Johnson, Bernier, Simmonds, Brown, Schenn signed for the next 5 or 6 years, how do we only have one chance?
Exactly!

If the Kings don't get a player like Kovalchuk, I will say that they don't have enough to compete for the cup for several years (unless Bernier pulls a Roy in the playoffs).

And they will still have to replace Williams and Handzus on the roster for the 2011-12 season and find a top line winger. Marleau just showed that top line wingers aren't cheap.

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06-24-2010, 01:36 PM
  #132
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Barry says lots of things. I wouldn't be surprised if he's wrong again.

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06-24-2010, 01:37 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
I don't buy all that luck stuff, the same goes for every other team in the playoffs too. So basically every single team that has won the Cup did so because of luck? What if Gretzky & Messier got hurt in 1981? What if Crosby got hurt last year? It's all hindsight, but none of that happened and they won the Cup.

And are you saying that if we sign Kovalchuk this year we only have next year as our chance to win? How do you figure? I think it will give us a chance for years to come. If we have Kovy, Kopitar, Doughty, Johnson, Bernier, Simmonds, Brown, Schenn signed for the next 5 or 6 years, how do we only have one chance?
Yes, there has been a fair amount of luck involved with every team that ever won the Stanley Cup. Injuries, bouncing pucks, goaltenders... It's HOCKEY! I don't see how anyone cannot say that there is a fair amount of luck involved. The best teams have the best chance but they still need some luck. Pittsburgh and Washington were the best teams in the East but they couldn't get past a worse team in Montreal.

All he is saying is that putting all your eggs in one basket and going for the big shot for ONE year isn't a great idea. Yes it worked out for the Hawks but what if, for bad luck or whatever, it didn't? Spend smart, don't just spend. Spending smart involves thinking about the future. Detroit spends smart and is a contender every year. They were RAVAGED by injuries this season and still managed to be one of the most feared teams once the playoff started.

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06-24-2010, 01:39 PM
  #134
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Old
06-24-2010, 01:42 PM
  #135
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Uno mas amigo!

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:43 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBrown View Post
All he is saying is that putting all your eggs in one basket and going for the big shot for ONE year isn't a great idea. Yes it worked out for the Hawks but what if, for bad luck or whatever, it didn't? Spend smart, don't just spend. Spending smart involves thinking about the future. Detroit spends smart and is a contender every year. They were RAVAGED by injuries this season and still managed to be one of the most feared teams once the playoff started.
Yet, no one has shown how the Kings will be in Chicago's situation by signing Kovalchuk to $8 million.

The Kings would have to sign a crappy goalie to $5+ million and a #4 defenseman to a $7 million contract. Not going to happen. Doughty will be the highest paid defenseman on the Kings and will be worth it, just like Duncan Keith in Chicago. Kane, Toews and Hossa aren't the problem contracts.

Huet and Campbell are the contracts that screwed Chicago and I don't see Dean repeating those mistakes. He already got Johnson to sign for less than $1.5 million on his second contract when most were saying he would get $3 million. He signed Quick for $1.8 million and I would be shocked if Bernier gets more than that on his next contract (unless he wins the cup).

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06-24-2010, 01:49 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
No, I think the person that wrote the post was insinuating that Chicago got lucky to win it the 1st year that they were really contenders and that doesn't happen very often.
He also correctly points out that if things hadn't played out exactly the way they did in the East, then Chicago probably doesn't win in the Finals. Obviously, winning soothes a lot of the cap issues that they have now. If they would have played a team like Pittsburgh in the Finals it might have be a different story today.

Chicago won it. Good for them, but I think it isn't the example to follow.
I wasn't aware that this team would only have a one-year window to win the Cup with Kovalchuk signed.

Kovalchuk isn't available next season: he is available now. They don't have to win the Cup next season as this isn't a Hossa 1-year special we are talking about. I know Kovalchuk is 35 years old and on the downside of his career, but he should still be useful in at least a checking role in 2011-12

Everything DL has done with the Cap and building through youth/draft has led to this point, that being the time when you are ready to make that big splash.

It's baffling to me how anyone can think this team isn't ready to make that splash. I truly feel that those who are opposed to this always want to have $10M in cap space but never use it. They feel the bargain is more important than what you are actually paying for, like a person who claims to be a videophile but buys a cheap tv as far as flatscreens go. Like, that new Samsung LED is just awesome but, even though I have the money, I'm going to buy this Insignia instead while claiming I want the best tv (team) possible.

Marleau is gone. What are we looking at now? Trades for short-term answers that would, at best, be a replacement for Frolov and a lateral move? Versteeg? That's the big attraction? No effing way.

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:50 PM
  #138
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Wow, some of you are going to be disappointed if you think the Kings will have Kovy SIGNED to be announced at the draft. Lets think logically. Maybe we'll get his rights, maybe not. Doesn't mean he'll sign with us (see, Hossa).

I just hope we land something, but to me, with Marleau re-signing in SJ that just made it that much harder to sign Kovy for us IMO. Some people who were thinking they'd go after the 2nd big fish, may realize they now need to go after the 1st and make a huge splash.

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06-24-2010, 01:53 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by JBernierFan View Post
Wow, some of you are going to be disappointed if you think the Kings will have Kovy SIGNED to be announced at the draft. Lets think logically. Maybe we'll get his rights, maybe not. Doesn't mean he'll sign with us (see, Hossa).

I just hope we land something, but to me, with Marleau re-signing in SJ that just made it that much harder to sign Kovy for us IMO. Some people who were thinking they'd go after the 2nd big fish, may realize they now need to go after the 1st and make a huge splash.
Nah, I wouldn't be disappointed. I'm fine with the announcement on July 1st as well.

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06-24-2010, 01:54 PM
  #140
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Nah, I wouldn't be disappointed. I'm fine with the announcement on July 1st as well.
Agreed

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Old
06-24-2010, 02:01 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Yet, no one has shown how the Kings will be in Chicago's situation by signing Kovalchuk to $8 million.
To be fair, the origin of the discussion was a scenario where the Kings had acquired both Kovalchuk and Carter and how something could be worked out since Chicago got away with something similar.

I think it's a fair point to argue that if Chicago didn't win it this year that there would be some very unhappy people in Chicago with a very different, weakened team next season.

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06-24-2010, 02:05 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by BigBrown View Post
I think it's a fair point to argue that if Chicago didn't win it this year that there would be some very unhappy people in Chicago with a very different, weakened team next season.
Maybe, but their "weakened" team will still be one of the best in the West.

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06-24-2010, 02:06 PM
  #143
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I know Kovalchuk is 35 years old and on the downside of his career, but he should still be useful in at least a checking role in 2011-12
I can't tell if you're kidding or not, but Kovy is 27 not 35. If it was sarcasm, sorry for being dumb...

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06-24-2010, 02:12 PM
  #144
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by BigBrown View Post
To be fair, the origin of the discussion was a scenario where the Kings had acquired both Kovalchuk and Carter and how something could be worked out since Chicago got away with something similar.

I think it's a fair point to argue that if Chicago didn't win it this year that there would be some very unhappy people in Chicago with a very different, weakened team next season.
Well they'd also probably have a little more CAP space because wasn't one of Toews bonuses the Conn Smyth trophy?

Chicago's mistakes were Huet and Campbell. Campbell is a good but they already had good defenseman so they didn't need him. Huet just was never worth what he was paid so that was just dumb. The Kings have NO comparison to either of those. The only one that is close is Smyth and he'll be gone in 2 more seasons not 5 or whatever Campbell has left on his deal. At the very worst, the Kings could buy out Smyth next summer.

Enough with the Chicago comparisons on any level. The Kings are a different team than the Hawks and don't have the same issues as the Hawks unless the go out and sign Jose Theodore and Anton Volchenkov to ridiculous deals this summer.

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06-24-2010, 02:19 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
Well they'd also probably have a little more CAP space because wasn't one of Toews bonuses the Conn Smyth trophy?

Chicago's mistakes were Huet and Campbell. Campbell is a good but they already had good defenseman so they didn't need him. Huet just was never worth what he was paid so that was just dumb. The Kings have NO comparison to either of those. The only one that is close is Smyth and he'll be gone in 2 more seasons not 5 or whatever Campbell has left on his deal. At the very worst, the Kings could buy out Smyth next summer.

Enough with the Chicago comparisons on any level. The Kings are a different team than the Hawks and don't have the same issues as the Hawks unless the go out and sign Jose Theodore and Anton Volchenkov to ridiculous deals this summer.
This. Chicago's cap issues came from dumb FA signings, not from the core guys. Paying Kovalchuk $8M wouldn't be dumb, especially when we watch him & Kopitar put up 100 points.

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06-24-2010, 02:23 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
Well they'd also probably have a little more CAP space because wasn't one of Toews bonuses the Conn Smyth trophy?

Chicago's mistakes were Huet and Campbell. Campbell is a good but they already had good defenseman so they didn't need him. Huet just was never worth what he was paid so that was just dumb. The Kings have NO comparison to either of those. The only one that is close is Smyth and he'll be gone in 2 more seasons not 5 or whatever Campbell has left on his deal. At the very worst, the Kings could buy out Smyth next summer.

Enough with the Chicago comparisons on any level. The Kings are a different team than the Hawks and don't have the same issues as the Hawks unless the go out and sign Jose Theodore and Anton Volchenkov to ridiculous deals this summer.
I'm all for an end to the Chicago comparisons. I simply pointed out that the post that started all of this was a post where the Kings had both Kovy and Carter and that it wouldn't be a problem since Chicago seems to get it done. Follow that up with a post about how they aren't getting it done since they are still moving players out, followed by who cares since they already won the cup, followed by how they got lucky and what would happen if they didn't and on and on and on.

It wasn't originally a discussion about how adding Kovalchuk screws the Kings (though it might have turned into that later on), it was a general discussion about how people now use Chicago as an argument to whatever salary they want to take on when following their model might not be the wisest thing to do. At least that's how I saw it.

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06-24-2010, 02:37 PM
  #147
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In other news.. Wolski gets a two year deal that pays him $3.8M annually. I think we can forget Frolov signing for anything less than $4.5M.

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06-24-2010, 02:40 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
This. Chicago's cap issues came from dumb FA signings, not from the core guys. Paying Kovalchuk $8M wouldn't be dumb, especially when we watch him & Kopitar put up 100 points.
Not with Terry Murray behind the bench.

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06-24-2010, 02:41 PM
  #149
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In other news.. Wolski gets a two year deal that pays him $3.8M annually. I think we can forget Frolov signing for anything less than $4.5M.
Pavelski and Wolski are better players than Frolov and outproduced him. Frolov isn't worth anything over $3.5M. If a team is willing to overpay for him, more power to them.

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06-24-2010, 02:48 PM
  #150
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Pavelski and Wolski are better players than Frolov and outproduced him. Frolov isn't worth anything over $3.5M. If a team is willing to overpay for him, more power to them.
Though I agree that I wouldn't want to pay him much more than $3.5M, is Wolski really a better player though? From what I understand they seem to be similar in that they both seem streaky and not giving it their all at times. Frolov had a sub par season but he scored over 30 goals twice, Wolski hasn't really come close to that. Frolov is also the better defensive player.

The biggest thing is obviously that Wolski was a restricted free agent while Frolov is unrestricted.

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