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Old
06-24-2010, 08:03 PM
  #201
Duc620
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
.... It will take time for the pattern to fully emerge and establish itself but as of today I think it is fair to say that one is slowly developing where in teams that draft well and then add one or two key ufa's have a couple of years to win the cup before they have to begin a sort of rebuilding process.

Maybe retooling is a better term and sure, all teams have always retooled somewhat every year but look at the Pens, they won the cup and since then have lost allot of the players that got them there and they haven't been back yet (too soon to tell if they will or won't need more work before they get back again if at all)..
Great post. Great analysis. You've definitely hit on the pattern.

Someone remarked that one of the league's goals with a cap is not just a salary structure that saves team's money. They also wanted a system that forces teams to rebuild as players get more expensive. The league wanted to spread the wealth of star players around to different cities and keep the fan base excited. As a result, we will see fewer Oilers or Islanders team rosters with multiple all stars and league leaders. Instead there will be more teams like the Ducks or Blackhawks. They build for two or three years then peak and get a shot at the Cup. If the goalie gets hot anythings possible. But those teams will tend to dominate for that year.

There are franchises, such as NJ, Detroit and the Flyers that have playing systems in place and that concentrate on development work for young players. This allows them to compete year in and year out - without necessarily getting into conference or Cup finals every year. That will be the Kings model.

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06-24-2010, 08:05 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by TwzKing View Post
I want him to sign but only if its for the right place and for short term. I don't want the money tied up in a player that is 1-8 in the playoffs.
lol.

How about DD, JJ, Simmonds etc.? They all have losing records as well. Should we not sign them for long term or perhaps, not sign them at all?

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Old
06-24-2010, 08:28 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
lol.

How about DD, JJ, Simmonds etc.? They all have losing records as well. Should we not sign them for long term or perhaps, not sign them at all?
Exactly. These "he hasn't won anything in the playoffs" arguments have no backing. Like I said before, if Doughty and Kopitar were drafted by Atlanta, no one would want them on our team as a free agent right now? Yea right..

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Old
06-24-2010, 08:34 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
lol.

How about DD, JJ, Simmonds etc.? They all have losing records as well. Should we not sign them for long term or perhaps, not sign them at all?
They arnt getting paid 8 million dollars a season and they are young... granted drew is worth it. You arnt worried about his defence? The system we play? There are just too many question marks for me.

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06-24-2010, 08:39 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
Exactly. These "he hasn't won anything in the playoffs" arguments have no backing. Like I said before, if Doughty and Kopitar were drafted by Atlanta, no one would want them on our team as a free agent right now? Yea right..
Especially when the captain of the Kings has the same impressive playoff resume as Olli Jokinen.

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Old
06-24-2010, 08:40 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by TwzKing View Post
They arnt getting paid 8 million dollars a season and they are young... granted drew is worth it. You arnt worried about his defence? The system we play? There are just too many question marks for me.
A part of me wants to rip you and your post apart but I'm jut gonna chill and let it go.

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06-24-2010, 08:46 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
A part of me wants to rip you and your post apart but I'm jut gonna chill and let it go.
I understand my opinion isn't popular, your more then welcome to put a a counter point. I feel they are valid concerns.

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Old
06-24-2010, 08:49 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Especially when the captain of the Kings has the same impressive playoff resume as Olli Jokinen.
And his cap hit is what?

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Old
06-24-2010, 08:52 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by TwzKing View Post
I understand my opinion isn't popular, your more then welcome to put a a counter point. I feel they are valid concerns.
I'm not so concerned with whether your opinion is popular as I am about whether your opinion makes any sense from a logical perspective.

I could make a sensible counter point, but why???

You dig?

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Old
06-24-2010, 08:53 PM
  #210
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We could only do Kaberle if we were sending significant salary back the other way.

If Dean can sign Kovy, I'd glady do Smyth for Kaberle straight up.

FORWARDS
* Ilya Kovalchuk ($7.500m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Justin Williams ($3.500m)
* Brad Richardson ($0.800m) / Jarret Stoll ($3.600m) / Dustin Brown ($3.175m)
* Fredrik Modin ($1.750m) / Michal Handzus ($4.000m) / Wayne Simmonds ($0.822m)
Kyle Clifford ($0.870m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.140m) / Scott Parse ($0.900m)
Kevin Westgarth ($0.525m)

DEFENSEMEN
Drew Doughty ($3.475m) / * Thomas Kaberle ($4.250m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.400m) / Jack Johnson ($1.425m)
* Mark Eaton ($2.250m) / Matt Greene ($2.950m)
Davis Drewiske ($0.617m)

GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($1.800m) / Jonathan Bernier ($0.843m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 22; CAP:$59.4m; PAYROLL: $59.058m; CAP ROOM: $4.797m BONUSES: $5.170m

That would leave us with a weak 2nd line on offense, but our defense would look GREAT.

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Old
06-24-2010, 08:56 PM
  #211
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1-8 in the playoffs, Kovy sucks!!!

Uhh... did some of you guys even watch the playoffs this year? Kovy totally transformed his game leading up to the playoffs to be a team player, and then during them he was CLEARLY the best player wearing a Devils sweater for the entire series. You know, the same Devils that were a 2 seed and have 3 Stanley Cups?

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Old
06-24-2010, 09:01 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
I'm not so concerned with whether your opinion is popular as I am about whether your opinion makes any sense from a logical perspective.

I could make a sensible counter point, but why???

You dig?
I'll call that bluff. A sensible counter point would be refreshing change

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Old
06-24-2010, 09:19 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
I'm not so concerned with whether your opinion is popular as I am about whether your opinion makes any sense from a logical perspective.

I could make a sensible counter point, but why???

You dig?
What not logical about my points? I'm not say i don't want him but term and amount is very important to me. Anything over 6 I'm out


Last edited by TwzKing: 06-24-2010 at 09:27 PM.
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Old
06-24-2010, 09:25 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by TwzKing View Post
What not logical about my points? I'm not say i don't him want but term and amount is very important to me. Anything over 6 I'm out
lol.

Good, I'll pass along your words to DL.

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Old
06-24-2010, 09:30 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwzKing View Post
What not logical about my points? I'm not say i don't want him but term and amount is very important to me. Anything over 6 I'm out
Under $6 million for a consistent 40 goal scorer?

Gaborik got $7.5.

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Old
06-24-2010, 09:39 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Under $6 million for a consistent 40 goal scorer?

Gaborik got $7.5.
Seriously.

The only way you can gat a guy for that cheap is if he is still on his ELC.

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Old
06-24-2010, 09:51 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
Great post. Great analysis. You've definitely hit on the pattern.

Someone remarked that one of the league's goals with a cap is not just a salary structure that saves team's money. They also wanted a system that forces teams to rebuild as players get more expensive. The league wanted to spread the wealth of star players around to different cities and keep the fan base excited. As a result, we will see fewer Oilers or Islanders team rosters with multiple all stars and league leaders. Instead there will be more teams like the Ducks or Blackhawks. They build for two or three years then peak and get a shot at the Cup. If the goalie gets hot anythings possible. But those teams will tend to dominate for that year.

There are franchises, such as NJ, Detroit and the Flyers that have playing systems in place and that concentrate on development work for young players. This allows them to compete year in and year out - without necessarily getting into conference or Cup finals every year. That will be the Kings model.
Hey Duc,

I think we've kind of discussed this before but I agree that the current system not only allows for teams to keep rebuilding thus spreading the wealth of talent around the league but I think that it flat out mandates it though of course in a sort of backdoor manner that allows them a sort of plausible deniability.

Look at the deal today between the Hawks and Atl. The Hawks deal away a player who was a key to their winning a cup but not entirely irreplaceable in Buf and a few other players but what they got in return was a couple of pics, a mid level prospect and a minor salary dump.

Buf will be a wonder in Atl and a nice gate draw along with Eaves and Sopel (the rest of the salary dump) Atl gets a little more depth and betters themselves while the Hawks shed salary and weakens themselves a little.

To me that deal is a perfect microcosm of what the new NHL is and will be.

Not a difficult pattern to spot so far but I feel it will take a full ten years of post lock out play for the pattern to become an irrefutable fact.

I don't know how i feel about it. On one hand it is nice that there will no longer be any teams that end up with all of the talent and go on to become unbeatable dynasties but on the other it sort of takes away the concept of fair play and to the victor belongs the spoils.

It smacks of collusion to me but then it doesn't do it so boldly that you want to walk away from the game. I look at the rest of the sports world for that sort of thing.

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Old
06-24-2010, 10:02 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
H
Look at the deal today between the Hawks and Atl. The Hawks deal away a player who was a key to their winning a cup but not entirely irreplaceable in Buf and a few other players but what they got in return was a couple of pics, a mid level prospect and a minor salary dump.
Atlanta got their ***** handed to them in that deal. Just like with Milbury, the town idiot only keeps their job for so long.

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06-24-2010, 10:35 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Calling you crazy would be an insult to the crazies.

Like I keep telling you, you need to stop with the TM hatin.
ok.......... i start listening to you guys...........

but you can count on my "i knew it, i knew it" when it gets reality

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Old
06-24-2010, 11:00 PM
  #220
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TIM THOMAS is the man, perfect for what LA has going on. Experienced Vezina Trophy winner to help the kids be fully ready in a few years.

It always takes goaltenders longer.

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Old
06-24-2010, 11:04 PM
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyWizz View Post
TIM THOMAS is the man, perfect for what LA has going on. Experienced Vezina Trophy winner to help the kids be fully ready in a few years.

It always takes goaltenders longer.
Too expensive for too long, especially with age taken into consideration.

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Old
06-24-2010, 11:06 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by HockeyWizz View Post
TIM THOMAS is the man, perfect for what LA has going on. Experienced Vezina Trophy winner to help the kids be fully ready in a few years.

It always takes goaltenders longer.
I've got 5 MILLION reasons why your wrong.

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06-24-2010, 11:09 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by HockeyWizz View Post
TIM THOMAS is the man, perfect for what LA has going on. Experienced Vezina Trophy winner to help the kids be fully ready in a few years.

It always takes goaltenders longer.
No. He's far from perfect for LA, he's 35 with 3 years left of a 5 mil cap hit. We're perfectly content with a Quick-Bernier tandem next season considering that Quick had 39 wins last season and Bernier has absolutely nothing left to prove in the AHL. If we trade for Thomas then next season we're just like Chicago wondering why the hell they signed Huet.

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06-24-2010, 11:11 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
Atlanta got their ***** handed to them in that deal. Just like with Milbury, the town idiot only keeps their job for so long.
Except that "idiot" is new in town, so is around for a little while.

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Old
06-24-2010, 11:21 PM
  #225
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And his cap hit is what?
Forget about Brown, he is not even close to the same player as Kovi. Look at Kopitar, he has a cap hit of $6.8 million and what did he do in the playoffs? 5 points in 6 games. So tell me, do you want to get rid of him because he's only made the playoffs once in 4 years and only had 5 points?

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