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Old
06-26-2010, 11:39 AM
  #1
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Top-10 Habs prospects with speculative HF grades

Hey! I'm pretty optimistic about having acquired Eller/Schultz, AND about drafting Tinordi in the first round. Our prospects pool, which looked seriously weaker one year ago, is now as good as ever!

Anyway. I'm willing to ask you guys, hw do you see our prospects pool, with HF-grades? Here's my evaluation.

1. PK Subban - (8.5B)
2. Lars Elller - (7.5B)
3. Jarred Tinordi - (7.5C)
4. Danny Kristo - (7.5C)
5. Louis Leblanc - (7.0B)
6. Max Pacioretty - (7.0C)
7. Aaron Palushaj - (7.0C)
8. Yannick Weber - (7.0C)
9. Alexander Avtsin (7.0D)
10. Mac Bennett - (7.0D)

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Old
06-26-2010, 11:41 AM
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CareyClutch
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8.5B for Subban?? FYI Stamkos got a 8.0B

http://www3.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/steven_stamkos

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Old
06-26-2010, 11:42 AM
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Vanek20
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FYI

P.K. Subban
Prospect Grade: 7.5 B

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Old
06-26-2010, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason allison'fans View Post
8.5B for Subban?? FYI Stamkos got a 8.0B

http://www3.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/steven_stamkos
Stamkos is a legit 9.0A right now.

8 is a 2nd d-man.
9 is an elite d-man.

I'd say Subban will become a first-pairing d-man, with the upside of being a #1 d-man.

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Old
06-26-2010, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason allison'fans View Post
8.5B for Subban?? FYI Stamkos got a 8.0B

http://www3.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/steven_stamkos
Isn't 8.0 "first liner" while 9 is "franchise player"? If so, Stamkos is closer to the 9 than 8.

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Old
06-26-2010, 12:18 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
Hey! I'm pretty optimistic about having acquired Eller/Schultz, AND about drafting Tinordi in the first round. Our prospects pool, which looked seriously weaker one year ago, is now as good as ever!

Anyway. I'm willing to ask you guys, hw do you see our prospects pool, with HF-grades? Here's my evaluation.

1. PK Subban - (8.5B)
2. Lars Elller - (7.5B)
3. Jarred Tinordi - (7.5C)
4. Danny Kristo - (7.5C)
5. Louis Leblanc - (7.0B)
6. Max Pacioretty - (7.0C)
7. Aaron Palushaj - (7.0C)
8. Yannick Weber - (7.0C)
9. Alexander Avtsin (7.0D)
10. Mac Bennett - (7.0D)
Shows why Tinordi was a good pick. No other player of his skillset in the org otherwise really. On your list I'd probably have PK as an 8.0B, Tinordi and Kristo as a 7.0B, with kristo getting the edge as our #3 prospect. And IMO, there is a dropoff after the top 4, as I highly doubt both LeBlanc and Pacioretty as scoring line players at this point.

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Old
06-26-2010, 12:34 PM
  #7
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HF's 8.0C and 6.5A system is crap, we've known it for years. Why play into it?

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Old
06-26-2010, 12:51 PM
  #8
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If I go by HF rules,

1. PK Subban - (9B)
2. Lars Elller - (7.5B)
3. Louis Leblanc - (7.5B)
4. Danny Kristo - (8C)
5. Jarred Tinordi - (8C)
6. Mac Bennett - (8C)
7. Alexander Avtsin - (8F)
8. Max Pacioretty - (7.5C)
9. Ryan White (7.0C)
10. David Desharnais - (7.5D)
11. Aaron Palushaj - (7C)
12. Mathieu Carle - (7C)
13. Cédrick Desjardins - (7C)
14. Yannick Weber - (7C)
15. Ben Maxwell - (6.5C)
16. Andreas Engqvist (6.5C)
17. Gabriel Dumont - (6.5C)
18. Brock Trotter - (6.5D)
19. Joonas Nättinen - (6.5D)
20. Andrew Conboy - (6C)

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Old
06-26-2010, 12:52 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey View Post
HF's 8.0C and 6.5A system is crap, we've known it for years. Why play into it?
It's basically just short form for describing a players potential and chance of reaching it.

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Old
06-26-2010, 01:01 PM
  #10
Mtl6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
If I go by HF rules,

1. PK Subban - (9B)
2. Lars Elller - (7.5B)
3. Louis Leblanc - (7.5B)
4. Danny Kristo - (8C)
5. Jarred Tinordi - (8C)
6. Mac Bennett - (8C)
7. Alexander Avtsin - (8F)
8. Max Pacioretty - (7.5C)
9. Ryan White (7.0C)
10. David Desharnais - (7.5D)
11. Aaron Palushaj - (7C)
12. Mathieu Carle - (7C)
13. Cédrick Desjardins - (7C)
14. Yannick Weber - (7C)
15. Ben Maxwell - (6.5C)
16. Andreas Engqvist (6.5C)
17. Gabriel Dumont - (6.5C)
18. Brock Trotter - (6.5D)
19. Joonas Nättinen - (6.5D)
20. Andrew Conboy - (6C)
Wow, generous! I don't think our prospects have that much potential.

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Old
06-26-2010, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Mtl6 View Post
Wow, generous! I don't think our prospects have that much potential.
And I definitely don't think you, or anybody on that forum, is a better prospects maniac than montreal.

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Old
06-26-2010, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtl6 View Post
Wow, generous! I don't think our prospects have that much potential.
Neither do I, but potential is a optimistic term. Mind you, when you see the Cs and Ds it says it all. They may reach that level, but most likely won't.

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Old
06-26-2010, 01:23 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
And I definitely don't think you, or anybody on that forum, is a better prospects maniac than montreal.
I beleive Dan has a lot of knowledge, much more then I do. I respect him a lot and I always read his articles on habprospects. He's a big source of information and opinion for all of us. Seriously, thank God he's here.

But I can say I think that by HF's criteria, I think he is overating some of our prospects potentiel in his post.

Just as anybody can have their own opinion even thought Pierre McGuire, Jacques, Demers, Pierre Lebrun, Bob Mackenzie, Mathias Brunet or anybody else say something.

If you're the follower type that takes everything one single person say to make it the unquestionnable truth, well it's up to you.

But we're on a forum, it's made for discussions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Neither do I, but potential is a optimistic term. Mind you, when you see the Cs and Ds it says it all. They may reach that level, but most likely won't.
Yes of course. Just like Higgins was a 8.0B, Kostitsyn a 9.0B at one time. I personnally don't think some of the prospects there have that potentiel even thought the chances to acheive it are slim.

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Old
06-26-2010, 01:54 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Mtl6 View Post
Wow, generous! I don't think our prospects have that much potential.
Well I don't think anyone would disagree that the sky is the limit with Subban, after that I don't see all that great potential. Eller, Leblanc, Kristo, Tinordi and Bennett though are guys that we should be looking at for the future. Add Pacioretty, Avstin and White and you have our best prospects imo.

Eller just came off a very good year in the AHL especially when you consider it was his first in NA and he had an injury plus mono to start the year. So the potential is there but it's still early in his development so we'll see if he comes close to reaching it, sounds good so far for him.

Leblanc I have taking a liking to for the way he plays mixed with the skill set he has. I think he should be a very solid NHLer for us, he appears to have very little flaws to his game other then needing to get stronger and fill out his frame. So the upside is there, he ripped it up with Lac St-Louis Lions, he was named rookie of the year in the USHL, and was Havard's best player as a freshman. So I don't see how the potential isn't there with him.

Kristo has impressed with Team USA and was the most skilled player on his team as a freshman, one of the top teams in the NCAA this past year and already getting tabbed as the pre-season #1 team in the NCAA. Kristo has more holes in his game but with his speed, shot and offensive instincts, he could turn out to be very good just there's still a good bit of risk surrounding his game.

Tinordi has the size, strength, physical abilities that we need, it looks like in the very very early stages that he should be a solid, non flashy type. I don't know what his upside is at this point but one would think he's got a lot of potential.

Bennett I love, likely my favorite prospect, so maybe I overrate him, I'll get a better feel for him at Michigan this year, so as I see more of him, I'll feel more comfortable in what we have. I think his potential is very high, maybe top pairing upside if everything pans out, which I admit is still a big question mark.

Avtsin if he comes over he should have good potential as he's got the frame, strength, speed, and offensive skills. Big question marks if we ever see him but I still think he will come over at some point.

Pacioretty there's concern for how things have gone since turning pro. He was a standout in the USHL (like Leblanc he was named USHL rookie of the Year) he was a standout in the CCHA (rookie of the year there too) and when he started in Hamilton he was leading the team in assists before his recall. His confidence gets shot in the NHL, injuries become a problem for him, and now there's concern on what sort of impact these factors will have on his future. But he's big, he's fast, he can pass the puck, has good speed, works hard and is decent in his own end.

White made big strides this year to show he's very close to making the NHL full time, the concerns about his lack of foot speed/skating are legit but he brings the gritty physcial play that we need, but at the same time he's got good hands, he can set up plays, has a nice shot and will get his nose dirty. I think he has good upside but is a lock to make the NHL on the bottom lines, so if his offensive game doesn't translate he still can be a useful player for us, but since he's only a 2nd year pro, perhaps he can still get better so I think the potential is there with him for sure.

Desharnais has just killed in in the ECHL and AHL, sure his lack of size is a major concern for a team that is already small up front, but his skill level, is just too good to overlook, he could be a good NHLer someday, although I'm not sold on it since I think he's got to get quicker and improve his lower body strength.

So yea the potential is there for sure, doesn't mean they will reach it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtl6 View Post
I beleive Dan has a lot of knowledge, much more then I do. I respect him a lot and I always read his articles on habprospects. He's a big source of information and opinion for all of us. Seriously, thank God he's here.

But we're on a forum, it's made for discussions.
Thanks. As I always say I'm just one person, my opinions don't mean anything, it's just something to do. I unlike many, spend a lot of time watching our AHL and NCAA prospects a lot, along with every prospect at least a couple times. So because I do that, I feel a responseability to contribute the things I know and see. Everyone is going to disagree with opinions, which is great as it often leads to discussions, which helps spread the education, mostly for those that want the info but aren't really interested in watching 100-200 games a year of AHL/NCAA/USHL/USHS/ECHL/KHL/SEL. But in the end it doesn't matter, it's all just for fun.

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Old
06-26-2010, 02:03 PM
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Subban + Kristo in my eyes = the future.

Eller if he does pan out as well.

I can't say I'm unhappy with all that plus Leblanc etc.

One thing I wanted to ask you though is why Carle > Weber now? Any particular reasoning?

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Old
06-26-2010, 02:19 PM
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montreal
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Subban + Kristo in my eyes = the future.

Eller if he does pan out as well.

I can't say I'm unhappy with all that plus Leblanc etc.

One thing I wanted to ask you though is why Carle > Weber now? Any particular reasoning?
Weber really disappointed this year, and Carle up until the injury was having his best year as a pro.

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Old
06-26-2010, 02:30 PM
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Has Trunev fallen off the face of the planet? No one talks about him anymore.

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Old
06-26-2010, 02:45 PM
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People actually take HF rankings seriously? lol

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Old
06-26-2010, 04:29 PM
  #19
Mtl6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Well I don't think anyone would disagree that the sky is the limit with Subban, after that I don't see all that great potential. Eller, Leblanc, Kristo, Tinordi and Bennett though are guys that we should be looking at for the future. Add Pacioretty, Avstin and White and you have our best prospects imo.

Eller just came off a very good year in the AHL especially when you consider it was his first in NA and he had an injury plus mono to start the year. So the potential is there but it's still early in his development so we'll see if he comes close to reaching it, sounds good so far for him.

Leblanc I have taking a liking to for the way he plays mixed with the skill set he has. I think he should be a very solid NHLer for us, he appears to have very little flaws to his game other then needing to get stronger and fill out his frame. So the upside is there, he ripped it up with Lac St-Louis Lions, he was named rookie of the year in the USHL, and was Havard's best player as a freshman. So I don't see how the potential isn't there with him.

Kristo has impressed with Team USA and was the most skilled player on his team as a freshman, one of the top teams in the NCAA this past year and already getting tabbed as the pre-season #1 team in the NCAA. Kristo has more holes in his game but with his speed, shot and offensive instincts, he could turn out to be very good just there's still a good bit of risk surrounding his game.

Tinordi has the size, strength, physical abilities that we need, it looks like in the very very early stages that he should be a solid, non flashy type. I don't know what his upside is at this point but one would think he's got a lot of potential.

Bennett I love, likely my favorite prospect, so maybe I overrate him, I'll get a better feel for him at Michigan this year, so as I see more of him, I'll feel more comfortable in what we have. I think his potential is very high, maybe top pairing upside if everything pans out, which I admit is still a big question mark.

Avtsin if he comes over he should have good potential as he's got the frame, strength, speed, and offensive skills. Big question marks if we ever see him but I still think he will come over at some point.

Pacioretty there's concern for how things have gone since turning pro. He was a standout in the USHL (like Leblanc he was named USHL rookie of the Year) he was a standout in the CCHA (rookie of the year there too) and when he started in Hamilton he was leading the team in assists before his recall. His confidence gets shot in the NHL, injuries become a problem for him, and now there's concern on what sort of impact these factors will have on his future. But he's big, he's fast, he can pass the puck, has good speed, works hard and is decent in his own end.

White made big strides this year to show he's very close to making the NHL full time, the concerns about his lack of foot speed/skating are legit but he brings the gritty physcial play that we need, but at the same time he's got good hands, he can set up plays, has a nice shot and will get his nose dirty. I think he has good upside but is a lock to make the NHL on the bottom lines, so if his offensive game doesn't translate he still can be a useful player for us, but since he's only a 2nd year pro, perhaps he can still get better so I think the potential is there with him for sure.

Desharnais has just killed in in the ECHL and AHL, sure his lack of size is a major concern for a team that is already small up front, but his skill level, is just too good to overlook, he could be a good NHLer someday, although I'm not sold on it since I think he's got to get quicker and improve his lower body strength.

So yea the potential is there for sure, doesn't mean they will reach it.



Thanks. As I always say I'm just one person, my opinions don't mean anything, it's just something to do. I unlike many, spend a lot of time watching our AHL and NCAA prospects a lot, along with every prospect at least a couple times. So because I do that, I feel a responseability to contribute the things I know and see. Everyone is going to disagree with opinions, which is great as it often leads to discussions, which helps spread the education, mostly for those that want the info but aren't really interested in watching 100-200 games a year of AHL/NCAA/USHL/USHS/ECHL/KHL/SEL. But in the end it doesn't matter, it's all just for fun.
Here's my list.

1 Subban 8.5B
2 Eller 7.5C
3 Leblanc 7.5C
4 Kristo 7.0C
5 Tinordi 7.0B
6 Weber 7.0C
7 Carle 7.0C
8 White 6.0B
9 Maxwell 7.0C
10 Avtsin 7.0D
11 Bennett 7.0C
12 Palushaj 7.0C
13 Dumont 6.0B
14 Pyatt 5.5B
15 Desharnais 7.0C
16 Desjardins 6.0B
17 Schultz 6.0C
18 Stejskal 6.0C
19 Quailer 7.0C
20 Engqvist 6.5C

As you can see, I may be what someone would call pessimistic.

I don't see (from the reports) Tinordi being more then a 2nd pairing defenseman. There is no way in my mind White has the tools to be a second line guy. I don't think Desjardins can be a journeyman goaltender in the NHL. Conboy, I would see more like a 4th line or bust guy. Bennett, I haven't seen him play so I guess we can rely on you for that.

Of course, some prospect could end up being a surprise and overacheiving his potential. But then it could happen to anybody.

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Old
06-26-2010, 07:43 PM
  #20
montreal
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Originally Posted by Mtl6 View Post
I don't see (from the reports) Tinordi being more then a 2nd pairing defenseman. There is no way in my mind White has the tools to be a second line guy. I don't think Desjardins can be a journeyman goaltender in the NHL. Conboy, I would see more like a 4th line or bust guy. Bennett, I haven't seen him play so I guess we can rely on you for that.

Of course, some prospect could end up being a surprise and overacheiving his potential. But then it could happen to anybody.
Well it's early but I don't see why Tinordi can't have more upside then 2nd pairing despite his lack of offensive abilities, if his defensive game is as good as I hear. But I also don't like HF's system, I didn't back when I covered the Habs for them and I still don't. Plus I have only see a clip of him play so I won't have a better feel for his upside until I see him in a couple games.

White has the tools to be a 2nd liner in the NHL if everything comes together. He has the shot, he has the passing abilities, and while he likely may not every reach his full potential, as he still needs to improve his foot speed and develop his offensive game more, he does have a nice mix of skill and grit, which we sorely lack so we'll see where he's at in a few years from now.

Desjardins it's tough to say what his future in the NHL will be since we haven't seen him in the NHL yet, but he won at the Q level, he won at the ECHL level and he was among the top 3 rated goalies in the AHL this year, so things continue to improve for him. Can he be a regular in the NHL? I don't know but I don't see how he doesn't have the upside to do that.

Conboy does have the upside of a 4th liner but if he can reach his top potential, perhaps he could do more since we so badly need somone his size that can move well and loves to take the body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
Thanks Montreal.

Tinordi with C (seems to be fitting a captain)?
Seems a bit lowe.

I was thinking that Tinordi, given the tangibles (combine, Captain, US Team, toughness, family) could be ranked with a B.
His defensive game is already very good according to all reports.

Anyway, we can wait a year to see him with a B...

As for Leblanc, I think a B is generous. We need to see him in WJC before giving him a B. He certainly had a great rookie season in Harvard.

Actually, for now, Tinordi could be a C+ and Leblanc a B-.
Tinordi could be a B, or he could be a C or another letter. I don't really know since I've never seen him so I took a guess.

Why would we need to see Leblanc first at the WJC's before he gets a B? that makes no sense to me. Leblanc can do it all, he's got the shot, the passing, the stickhandling, good two way game, works hard, good speed/skating, is smart positionally, will get his nose dirty and will go to the tough areas of the ice to score. The only thing he lacks is strength, a bigger frame and we'll have to see how his offensive game translates to the next level.

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Old
06-26-2010, 07:48 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
If I go by HF rules,

1. PK Subban - (9B)
2. Lars Elller - (7.5B)
3. Louis Leblanc - (7.5B)
4. Danny Kristo - (8C)
5. Jarred Tinordi - (8C)
6. Mac Bennett - (8C)
7. Alexander Avtsin - (8F)
8. Max Pacioretty - (7.5C)
9. Ryan White (7.0C)
10. David Desharnais - (7.5D)
11. Aaron Palushaj - (7C)
12. Mathieu Carle - (7C)
13. Cédrick Desjardins - (7C)
14. Yannick Weber - (7C)
15. Ben Maxwell - (6.5C)
16. Andreas Engqvist (6.5C)
17. Gabriel Dumont - (6.5C)
18. Brock Trotter - (6.5D)
19. Joonas Nättinen - (6.5D)
20. Andrew Conboy - (6C)
With the addition of Tinordi and Eller, our top prospects actually look pretty sexy. I'd give Subban an 8.5B. I don't think he's proven he can be a franchise D just yet. Maybe next year. Other than that, I agree, and our top 10 looks powerful.

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