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Canucks select D Patrick McNally - 4th Round, 115th Overall

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Old
06-27-2010, 04:00 AM
  #76
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I googled Milton Academy, trying to look up the former classmate whom I visited some years ago at Milton, where he was on the faculty. I figured I'd ask him for first-hand reports on McNally.

Got sidetracked by google items on a major sex scandal there, involving five hockey players and one underaged girl student. Two female students then wrote a trashy book about it, called "Restless Virgins."

It was a big deal a few years ago. In Massachusetts, the young hockey players were technically liable to be punished by life imprisonment, regardless of actual consent by the girl (who is said to have offered it as a birthday present in the first place). The boys got off legally, but were expelled from Milton, while the girl went unpunished:

(see first googled items under "milton academy hockey scandal")

For his development as a Canucks prospect, I hope McNally can keep his eye on the puck, and not on the bunnies

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06-27-2010, 04:13 AM
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lol @ the thought that going to Harvard implies your smrt.
I haven't met too many duds there. Even the athletes are, as athletes go, pretty clever.

As an aside, does anyone know if there's ever been a study done to find the correlation between academic intelligence [e.g. SAT scores] and athletic intelligence [ie. the ability to "read the play"]? I guess the latter would be awfully hard to quantify, but there's got to be some enterprising sports management student out there who's given it a whirl.

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06-27-2010, 04:22 AM
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I googled Milton Academy, trying to look up the former classmate whom I visited some years ago at Milton, where he was on the faculty. I figured I'd ask him for first-hand reports on McNally.

Got sidetracked by google items on a major sex scandal there, involving five hockey players and one underaged girl student. Two female students then wrote a trashy book about it, called "Restless Virgins."

It was a big deal a few years ago. In Massachusetts, the young hockey players were technically liable to be punished by life imprisonment, regardless of actual consent by the girl (who is said to have offered it as a birthday present in the first place). The boys got off legally, but were expelled from Milton, while the girl went unpunished:

(see first googled items under "milton academy hockey scandal")

For his development as a Canucks prospect, I hope McNally can keep his eye on the puck, and not on the bunnies

yes, yes they did...

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06-27-2010, 04:42 AM
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yes, yes they did...
*Sound of a drum, another drum and a symbol being hit in that order*

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06-27-2010, 05:22 AM
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I see a couple of red flags in the article

First, it is my observation that college is not the best route to go to get to the NHL. I believe that playing major Junior provides far better training and development. It is much more pro oriented and has better athletes. It's a lot tougher to go major Junior but it forces you play quicker and in traffic.

I don't see US colleges sending out many players that are ready for the NHL or are developing like you would hope in college hockey. One of the best moves the Canucks made last year was getting Connaution out of NCAA and Schroeder's year at Minnesota was pretty much a waste of time. I believe he would have better served by being in Everett. Also, wish Price was in Major Junior.

The second negative I see here is the approach some parents take toward education and hockey. Throughout my involvement in minor hockey I have heard the canard that kids can use hockey as a tool to get an education. To me, it often seemed like some parent was trying hard not to be a hockey dad and looking like he had pro intentions for his son. But if you steer your kid away from the highest level possible and the best development path, you may well be short changing your kid of the opportunity of getting higher level coaching and better development. If you want your kid to succeed in hockey you can't be over protecting him from the level of hockey and intensity he ultimately must face to succeed. I wonder how good Turris would be if he had gone Major Junior Hockey rather than being a super star in the BCHL. Might have been far more ready if he had had to grind it out in the WHL with Vancouver.

Last year Schroeder's dad seemed instrumental in keeping Schroeder in Minnesota. Now it sounds like Mr. McNally is giving the same advise. I believe that if he wants to see his kid in the NHL he should be looking at Major Junior hockey immediately.

As far as education goes there is plenty of time. Lots of people go back in their early 20's or later and get an excellent education. Indeed, people often succeed better when they are little older and generally have a much better handle on what they want to pursue. Moreover, some excellent educational programs are being set up for WHL players. Besides that, most bona vide prospects leave college (like Tanev did) long before graduation.

If it is this kid's dream to play in the NHL and Dad wants to facilitate this, then Dad should be looking for something more appropriate for the kid's development than being a a freshman at Harvard. Even at the moment, this intention probably lowered the kid's draft status.

Guysauce has a good point - Is this kid or his family on the fence as far as hockey is concerned??

Hopefully he comes to the Canucks summer camp and gets turned on enough to make the full commitment to becoming an NHL player. And hopefully not another Riley Nash situation

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06-27-2010, 02:20 PM
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Replying to Orcatown's post, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on whatever McNally thought or said before the draft occurred. The reality of being drafted likely had a concentrating effect upon his mind.

I'm thinking that when the distant dream of a pro hockey career suddenly became very real, by being drafted and then contacted by the Canucks, and all their training and team culture outreach . . . that a big change may have begun to occur in the McNally family's attitude. Suddenly, Harvard might not seem so necessary after all, or at least not for more than one season. McNally will be gathering in Vancouver this summer with fellow prospects Oberg, Price, Connauton, and Tanev--all one-season college guys (Oberg sat out most of his freshman season with an injury)--not to mention Andersson, Rodin, Hodgson, and Schroeder. It's a team-building and indoctrination event. Hanging out with all these young, talented fellow draftees--and potential teammates--is bound to have an impact on McNally, and it may begin to change his mind about the quickest route from Milton to Manitoba.

My own boarding school team beat McNally's team last season. So I can imagine what it would feel like to be gathering with guys like US schoolboy hockey legend Jordan Schroeder, and then going back for another year to Milton freaking Academy. I think the kid is going to become restless.

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06-27-2010, 02:36 PM
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Not much to discuss, really. I'm sure 99 % of us have never heard his name before today. We'll have to give him a year or two in our system before we see what we have here.
Had him on radar for Panthers in 2nd round. Very surprised he fell this far in draft. Something scared teams off. Any word on what that could be? This kid has NHL potential written all over him.

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06-27-2010, 04:04 PM
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Had him on radar for Panthers in 2nd round. Very surprised he fell this far in draft. Something scared teams off. Any word on what that could be? This kid has NHL potential written all over him.
Yes.
He wants to pursue his education. 1 more yr at his prep school, and another 2-4 likely/possibly at Harvard.

So, he's guaranteed to not turn pro for 3-5 years. 1 season in the minors, and he may not be NHL ready until 2016. A long ways away.

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06-27-2010, 04:16 PM
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Yes.
He wants to pursue his education. 1 more yr at his prep school, and another 2-4 likely/possibly at Harvard.

So, he's guaranteed to not turn pro for 3-5 years. 1 season in the minors, and he may not be NHL ready until 2016. A long ways away.
Thanks. I had him skill rated in top 30ish to 40.....so was surprised to see him go so late. Didn't know about the delay. Who knows, if he really develops next year, the academic pursuits may be put on hold. The concept of multi-million dollar pro contracts can do that!

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06-27-2010, 04:36 PM
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As far as education goes there is plenty of time. Lots of people go back in their early 20's or later and get an excellent education. Indeed, people often succeed better when they are little older and generally have a much better handle on what they want to pursue. Moreover, some excellent educational programs are being set up for WHL players. Besides that, most bona vide prospects leave college (like Tanev did) long before graduation.

If it is this kid's dream to play in the NHL and Dad wants to facilitate this, then Dad should be looking for something more appropriate for the kid's development than being a a freshman at Harvard. Even at the moment, this intention probably lowered the kid's draft status.
On the other hand, we're not talking about him going the college route to get a BA from some state school in Minnesota. A Harvard degree, regardless of what anybody here thinks of the institution, is a pretty amazing meal ticket. I'm usually one of the first guys to say a college-bound Canuck prospect should go to the CHL, but if I had a son in McNally's position - i.e., prospect, but far from a sure thing to make big NHL money - I'd be behind the Harvard choice.

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06-27-2010, 04:41 PM
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I agree LL.
If that's my kid, I would want him finishing his education at Harvard. He is set for life should hockey not pan out.

Even just looking at guys who have executive level NHL positions, an Ivy league education has helped them make a good living in a sport they love.

By the way, what is Gord Kluzak doing these days? I heard he went to Harvard way back when, post NHL career.

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06-27-2010, 04:45 PM
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If anyone else was curious:
Gord Kluzak:
"Gord turned to the world of education, attending Harvard University and later Harvard Business School, earning a degree in economics. He now works for a financial management firm in Boston, and does broadcasting on the side for NESN."

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06-27-2010, 05:13 PM
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Terry Malick. You can google his movies.

To be honest, he seemed such a corn-pone Southerner, with such a thick accent, that I saw the surface only, and not the unique creative mind within. I began to see the light when his philosophy prof requested to keep his straight-A term paper on "Ontology in Heidegger," saying
"I've never seen a better treatment of this subject."

A wealthy alum tried to persuade him to go out for the Freshman football team . . . the reason he was admitted. Terry (we called him "Blanket-ass" for being from Oklahoma) invited me along to the dinner at the alum's Boston mansion. It was all small talk, but in the car on the way home,
Mr. Holloway popped the question, like we knew he would. Terry simply replied, after a long pause. "Waaaaallll, Misser Holloway, ah don think ah weel." Four years later, he was off to Oxford on a Rhodes Scholarship.

On topic: I don't recall him liking hockey
ARE YOU KIDDING ME YOU WERE ROOMATES WITH TERRENCE ****ING MALICK!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!!??!

you must tell me more stories!

(im a film student)

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06-27-2010, 06:59 PM
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Yeah, but is he "Steve Moore" educated?

S_C

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06-27-2010, 07:00 PM
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ARE YOU KIDDING ME YOU WERE ROOMATES WITH TERRENCE ****ING MALICK!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!!??!

you must tell me more stories!

(im a film student)
No I'm not kidding. We roomed together with one other guy (who became my roommate for the final three years) in Matthews 38, which was JFK's freshman suite it seems, judging from the tourists who occasionally knocked on our door. After freshman year, Terry went to Adams House, known then as the house for artsy, bohemian intellectuals. It's where he belonged.

I can't tell more stories here . . . this is really OT. Anyway, Terry *loves* his privacy!

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06-27-2010, 07:16 PM
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Not overly thrilled with this pick.

Probably a guy who won't turn pro until 2015, and he's going to a very poor college program that went 9-21-3 last season.

Given that there were several pretty highly-regarded WHL defenders still available - Madaisky, Davidson, and especially Rutkowski - going that route would have made more sense.

In general I don't like drafting HS players - the bust rate is enormous because the level of competition is so low and it's really hard to scout. Run-of-the-mill players look amazing because they're dominating against terrible opponents.
I agree, and in particular they don't just look amazing but their flaws are hidden. What type of match-ups would scouts have seen Mcnally come up against compared to Madaisky (the guy I wanted there)

Madaisky was forced into a #1 shut-down role, paired with sometimes winger Josh Caron no less, because Kamloops had no one else who could play that role. How would Mcnally look facing a 2 on 1 against Cunningham-Gallagher?, how strong would he look in the corner against a guy like Bouma? Nobody knows because there's likely nobody like those guys in his league.

As far as Harvard goes- look at their alumni- "Hockey alumni": http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/alumni.php?tmi=6047

To sum up that list: about a dozen good grinder type forwards and one, ONE!, good NHL defenceman in Don Sweeney. I hope Gillis can convince this kid to jump to the CHL because that's not a good developmental history.

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06-27-2010, 07:24 PM
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On the other hand, we're not talking about him going the college route to get a BA from some state school in Minnesota. A Harvard degree, regardless of what anybody here thinks of the institution, is a pretty amazing meal ticket. I'm usually one of the first guys to say a college-bound Canuck prospect should go to the CHL, but if I had a son in McNally's position - i.e., prospect, but far from a sure thing to make big NHL money - I'd be behind the Harvard choice.
You're right about the meal ticket, especially in the US. But Harvard is totally flexible about allowing you to do whatever, and return whenever, after being accepted. At my time, they
encouraged us to leave school and take a real-world job, "and call us when you want to return." No fuss, no muss. You're in, so come and go as you like.

The trick is getting admitted. After that, McNally could begin his pro career, and return to Harvard at any time for the rest of his life. As I said in an earlier post, talented and motivated individuals are sought out by Harvard, no matter what their interest might be. A hockey career ranks up there with anything else.

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06-27-2010, 07:30 PM
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I haven't met too many duds there. Even the athletes are, as athletes go, pretty clever.

As an aside, does anyone know if there's ever been a study done to find the correlation between academic intelligence [e.g. SAT scores] and athletic intelligence [ie. the ability to "read the play"]? I guess the latter would be awfully hard to quantify, but there's got to be some enterprising sports management student out there who's given it a whirl.
Interesting question, don't know of a study like that.

Gillis described why he thought it mattered in today's Province, he said that education is about improving yourself, so a player who is dedicated to education probably is open to a lot of the behind-the-scenes improvement programs the Canucks have in mind, as opposed to a player who thinks he's all he needs to be already. I think this philosophy is particularly suited to a long-shot project like the ones the Canucks are drafting deep in the rounds.

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06-27-2010, 07:40 PM
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Replying to Orcatown's post, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on whatever McNally thought or said before the draft occurred. The reality of being drafted likely had a concentrating effect upon his mind.

I'm thinking that when the distant dream of a pro hockey career suddenly became very real, by being drafted and then contacted by the Canucks, and all their training and team culture outreach . . . that a big change may have begun to occur in the McNally family's attitude. Suddenly, Harvard might not seem so necessary after all, or at least not for more than one season. McNally will be gathering in Vancouver this summer with fellow prospects Oberg, Price, Connauton, and Tanev--all one-season college guys (Oberg sat out most of his freshman season with an injury)--not to mention Andersson, Rodin, Hodgson, and Schroeder. It's a team-building and indoctrination event. Hanging out with all these young, talented fellow draftees--and potential teammates--is bound to have an impact on McNally, and it may begin to change his mind about the quickest route from Milton to Manitoba.

My own boarding school team beat McNally's team last season. So I can imagine what it would feel like to be gathering with guys like US schoolboy hockey legend Jordan Schroeder, and then going back for another year to Milton freaking Academy. I think the kid is going to become restless.
All true, the only thing with McNally is that not only did he get admitted, but he got a scholarship, which is something that might make it more difficult for him to walk away from. College players can't even accept team-paid flight to training camps without losing their eligibility, IIRC, so unless he is willing to pay his own way, he may not come to rookie/prospects/training camp.

It's one thing for Connauton to walk away from a college, it's a whole other for anyone to walk away from a Harvard scholarship. His dad's an FBI agent and they're paid well, but even then, it's a tough scholarship to say goodbye to. And frankly, he's got better odds of making money with a Harvard degree than making an NHL team and having a successful career.

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06-27-2010, 10:24 PM
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On the other hand, we're not talking about him going the college route to get a BA from some state school in Minnesota. A Harvard degree, regardless of what anybody here thinks of the institution, is a pretty amazing meal ticket. I'm usually one of the first guys to say a college-bound Canuck prospect should go to the CHL, but if I had a son in McNally's position - i.e., prospect, but far from a sure thing to make big NHL money - I'd be behind the Harvard choice.
Pursuing an NHL career does not rule out going to Harvard as some have pointed out. Could do both. Many NHL players have gone back and later achieved degrees in law and various careers. Don't see this as an either/or decision.

If he wants to pursue a career in the NHL then he has a pretty narrow window to do this. He has lots of time to achieve a high quality education.

If I am the dad I'm sitting down and trying to figure out what the kid wants and then working with him to find the best way to achieve this aim. If the kid is committed to making the NHL (and let's hope for the Canucks sake, he is) then I believe that the CHL is the right route. That seems a far better option than wasting a development year in high school hockey.

If the kid is more committed to academics then for sure the dad should be respecting that and pursuing his present course. However, he should also recognize that, as far as hockey is concerned, his kid is falling behind other prospects who are playing at a much more competitive level.

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06-27-2010, 11:46 PM
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pretty sensible.
get into harvard
play hockey for a year of two

then evalutate you game.
1. legitimate NHL talent- turn pro
2. AHL level talent - stay at harvard

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06-28-2010, 12:25 AM
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Current Canuck prospect Jeremy Price is in the Ivy League too, I believe, with Colgate University.

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06-28-2010, 02:03 AM
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ARE YOU KIDDING ME YOU WERE ROOMATES WITH TERRENCE ****ING MALICK!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!!??!

you must tell me more stories!

(im a film student)
I can't match that, but in my freshman year one of the guys across the hall was a big movie buff. On checking the list of people who'd previously had his room, he saw Darren Aronofsky's name. That fall, Aronofsky was presenting his newest movie somewhere nearby, and Guy Across the Hall went to see it. Afterwards he went up to Aronofsky and said (probably stammered) something like "I, uh, live in your old dorm room". Aronofsky was like "oh, which bedroom?...[Right]...Which bunk?...[Bottom]...oh, neat, that's the one I used to have". Guy Across the Hall thought it was probably the coolest thing to ever happen to him.

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06-28-2010, 03:39 AM
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Current Canuck prospect Jeremy Price is in the Ivy League too, I believe, with Colgate University.
Colgate isn't in the Ivy League. But the schools of Glass and Volpatti (Dartmouth and Brown) are.

Basically though, I think your point was that Colgate and Harvard are fairly equivalent hockey-wise. They sometimes play each other, but I don't know the standings in that "series" over the years. It would be interesting to run the pro career analysis for Colgate that the poster did for Harvard in this thread. My guess is that Colgate's pro players might be even more dismal a bunch than Harvard's. But I don't recall anyone here being upset that Price, who was about the same draft pick level that McNally was, is developing at Colgate.

Western Michigan sucked, so Connauton switched to the Dub. I'm unaware of RIT's hockey history, but it might not be much better than Harvard's or Colgate's. In any case, Tanev flourished there for one year, and then turned pro. I don't think McNally's route is all that different from Price's and Tanev's.

Except . . . that extra year for McNally in prep school coming up . . . that hurts, no doubt about it. Gillis said "Maybe he can score 80 points." Yeah, right.

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06-28-2010, 03:53 AM
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Colgate isn't in the Ivy League. But the schools of Glass and Volpatti (Dartmouth and Brown) are.

Basically though, I think your point was that Colgate and Harvard are fairly equivalent hockey-wise. They sometimes play each other, but I don't know the standings in that "series" over the years. It would be interesting to run the pro career analysis for Colgate that the poster did for Harvard in this thread. My guess is that Colgate's pro players might be even more dismal a bunch than Harvard's. But I don't recall anyone here being upset that Price, who was about the same draft pick level that McNally was, is developing at Colgate.

Western Michigan sucked, so Connauton switched to the Dub. I'm unaware of RIT's hockey history, but it might not be much better than Harvard's or Colgate's. In any case, Tanev flourished there for one year, and then turned pro. I don't think McNally's route is all that different from Price's and Tanev's.

Except . . . that extra year for McNally in prep school coming up . . . that hurts, no doubt about it. Gillis said "Maybe he can score 80 points." Yeah, right.
That extra year is also likely the reason why we got him in the 4th round. Without that he likely goes in either the 2nd or 3rd round. Who knows how much it'll hurt his development but IMO it should only push him one year back. Either way if we had a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick then nobody would really care how long it took for our fourth round pick to develop.

Heck how often do fourth round picks even develop into NHL players?? However it gets a little more hype because he happened to be our first pick in the 2010 draft.

As long as we can hopefully develop two players out of this draft (really even one might be a stretch) I'll be thrilled.

Let's also not forget that maybe just maybe we'll be trading away guys like Bieksa and SOB which could potentially bring back more to the system.

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