I don't think he's better than Rome. Rome is far steadier than he is and isn't a distraction. He also makes less than half of SOB's cap hit last season -- and I suspect O'Brien will want a raise this off-season.
They both had their ups and downs last season. I think we can all agree on that. I personally think SOB's ups were better than Rome's ups, and downs were a bit worse than Rome's downs. They both also got better as the season went on, and at best both were able to play top 4 minutes on good level when needed.
So "far steadier", I don't think so. Maybe a bit more consistent effort on the second half of the season, but really not that big of a difference.
I think people forget here that last season Rome was an NHL regular for the first time in his career. And even last year, he had rough start to the season and ended up playing few games in Manitoba. Basically Rome now has played around 30-40 games steady NHL hockey on his career and I'm not that impressed yet that I would hand out the #6 spot to him, or even call him a proven depth defeceman.
The reason I'd keep SOB is because of competition and potential. In my mind SOB played pretty well after the "Olympic wake up" thingy and on few nights some might even say he was one of our best d-men out there. I think we all have seen some of his potential when he has his head in the game and in good shape. Also from what I've heard and seen, he's great in the dressing room (despite all the "distractions").
And yeah, he would cost maybe a bit too much for a 6th guy, but going with Rome/Alberts would be a bit risky and I don't think Gillis can find a better depth d-man this summer than SOB (quality/dollars). Plus you can never have enough defencemen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto
At least Ballard tries to back it up, which is more than I can say for Teddy Bear. How many fights did SOB have this season -- two? He complained to the press about fighting the previous season. Downy soft.
You misread me. My point was SOB is the only d-man we have who could play with Ballard on the same pair and at the same time answer the bell if needed so that Ballard wouldn't have to get his ass kicked and spent 5 minutes in the box.
With SOB, it's really just the maturity and mental issues we're dealing with. As you make mistakes and learn from them and you get a bit older, you tend to kind of accept who you are and do what you're best at. I think when SOB realizes that - and I think he began that process last year especially in the playoffs - he could be very important in the third pair and fill in big minutes with quality when needed. Maybe even more in the future.
They both had their ups and downs last season. I think we can all agree on that. I personally think SOB's ups were better than Rome's ups, and downs were a bit worse than Rome's downs. They both also got better as the season went on, and at best both were able to play top 4 minutes on good level when needed.
So "far steadier", I don't think so. Maybe a bit more consistent effort on the second half of the season, but really not that big of a difference.
I think people forget here that last season Rome was an NHL regular for the first time in his career. And even last year, he had rough start to the season and ended up playing few games in Manitoba. Basically Rome now has played around 30-40 games steady NHL hockey on his career and I'm not that impressed yet that I would hand out the #6 spot to him, or even call him a proven depth defeceman.
The reason I'd keep SOB is because of competition and potential. In my mind SOB played pretty well after the "Olympic wake up" thingy and on few nights some might even say he was one of our best d-men out there. I think we all have seen some of his potential when he has his head in the game and in good shape. Also from what I've heard and seen, he's great in the dressing room (despite all the "distractions").
And yeah, he would cost maybe a bit too much for a 6th guy, but going with Rome/Alberts would be a bit risky and I don't think Gillis can find a better depth d-man this summer than SOB (quality/dollars). Plus you can never have enough defencemen.
You misread me. My point was SOB is the only d-man we have who could play with Ballard on the same pair and at the same time answer the bell if needed so that Ballard wouldn't have to get his ass kicked and spent 5 minutes in the box.
With SOB, it's really just the maturity and mental issues we're dealing with. As you make mistakes and learn from them and you get a bit older, you tend to kind of accept who you are and do what you're best at. I think when SOB realizes that - and I think he began that process last year especially in the playoffs - he could be very important in the third pair and fill in big minutes with quality when needed. Maybe even more in the future.
We'll agree to disagree on Rome. After his shaky start to the season I thought he was solid. He's also not small and isn't afraid to mix it up physically.
I may have misread you, but you're definitely misreading me now. I understand that O'Brien could answer the bell for Ballard, except for two things: if O'Brien is playing with Ballard something has gone horribly wrong for the Canucks, and O'Brien wouldn't answer the bell anyway. As I mentioned before, he's downy soft. He doesn't fight anymore. Even when he does, he just whines about it afterwards anyway.
And you're wrong about him growing up. I saw him out in Vancouver two weeks ago and he looked like he'd put on 20 pounds in vodka and he was smoking. You can choose to believe me or you can choose not to believe me, but I feel fairly comfortable in where I stand on the "Shane O'Brien becoming a professional" scale.
I wouldn't be suprised to see the Canucks take him to arbitration. Don't think he has much of a case coming off an 8 point season where he was a healthy scratch and had off-ice issues.
There may not be much upside (reduce his contract by a couple hundred thousand) but at the same time every little bit may help and they probably don't have much to lose either.
if the Canucks were looking to reduce his salary wouldn't they have qualified him at a lesser amount?
I think the 1.6 figure pushes his offersheet value from a 3rd rounder to a 2nd round. Either way, I think a team will find value in OB for 1.8-2 mill a season and a second round pick.
I wouldn't be suprised to see the Canucks take him to arbitration. Don't think he has much of a case coming off an 8 point season where he was a healthy scratch and had off-ice issues.
There may not be much upside (reduce his contract by a couple hundred thousand) but at the same time every little bit may help and they probably don't have much to lose either.
Yeah, that's a good point; it wouldn't surprise me to see Gillis go that route. Though, that isn't an option if he signs the QO is it?
I think the 1.6 figure pushes his offersheet value from a 3rd rounder to a 2nd round. Either way, I think a team will find value in OB for 1.8-2 mill a season and a second round pick.
We'll agree to disagree on Rome. After his shaky start to the season I thought he was solid. He's also not small and isn't afraid to mix it up physically.
I said "Basically Rome now has played around 30-40 games steady NHL hockey", which IMO is pretty much the same as yours "After his shaky start to the season I thought he was solid."
Also I didn't mention anything about Rome's physicality, but I agree with you. SOB would beat him in a fight though, but that doesn't really matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto
I may have misread you, but you're definitely misreading me now. I understand that O'Brien could answer the bell for Ballard, except for two things: if O'Brien is playing with Ballard something has gone horribly wrong for the Canucks, and O'Brien wouldn't answer the bell anyway. As I mentioned before, he's downy soft. He doesn't fight anymore. Even when he does, he just whines about it afterwards anyway.
First of all the SOB-Ballard pairing was just hypothetical. Possible (with few injuries and/or SOB's good performances), but not likely. Secondly, yes he would. SOB thinks he's good enough player so he doesn't have to go and look for a fight when the team is not playing that well, and I agree with him there. We got far more useless players to do that.
That being said, every scrum there is SOB is always first one to defend his teammates and facewash others, and sometimes taking those stupid minors while doing it. I just can't see a situation where Ballard would lay a massive check and SOB wouldn't go there and try to help him in any way possible.
If you played for the Canucks, there really weren't lots of reasons to fight last year. You know, spontaneous ones. I mean, is the glass gonna challenge someone after Bernier lays the body on it again and again? Don't think so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto
And you're wrong about him growing up. I saw him out in Vancouver two weeks ago and he looked like he'd put on 20 pounds in vodka and he was smoking. You can choose to believe me or you can choose not to believe me, but I feel fairly comfortable in where I stand on the "Shane O'Brien becoming a professional" scale.
Can't really comment on that. Lots of players do all kinds of stuff during summer, and if that's true it doesn't really surprise me. However, it really has nothing to do with his on-ice performances or maturing on-ice/during the season, and everyone who watched last year's playoffs saw he finally started to grow up (took responsibility on his actions).
I'm one of the bigger SOB fans on this board but I defintately wouldn't mind seeing him go. Aside from adequete defense, he doesn't bring a whole lot to this team. He's also disappointing in the physical side of the game. Also, I don't think he has enough talent to be on this team anymore. My only concern with losing SOB would be potentially missing out on an asset by letting his rights expire rather than dealing him.
No,obviously not out of the blue but if Gillis is trying to sign then trade him. If he was paid 1-1.5 million and Gillis was shopping him, why would another team pay a 2nd rounder when they could tender an offer and pay a 3rd.
I wouldn't be suprised to see the Canucks take him to arbitration. Don't think he has much of a case coming off an 8 point season where he was a healthy scratch and had off-ice issues.
There may not be much upside (reduce his contract by a couple hundred thousand) but at the same time every little bit may help and they probably don't have much to lose either.
His agent should be fired for not advising him to just sign his QO and be done with it. Why further the stereotype that he isn't a team player when they know he will be traded or given a bigger role and prove he is worth more?
I said "Basically Rome now has played around 30-40 games steady NHL hockey", which IMO is pretty much the same as yours "After his shaky start to the season I thought he was solid."
Also I didn't mention anything about Rome's physicality, but I agree with you. SOB would beat him in a fight though, but that doesn't really matter.
First of all the SOB-Ballard pairing was just hypothetical. Possible (with few injuries and/or SOB's good performances), but not likely. Secondly, yes he would. SOB thinks he's good enough player so he doesn't have to go and look for a fight when the team is not playing that well, and I agree with him there. We got far more useless players to do that.
That being said, every scrum there is SOB is always first one to defend his teammates and facewash others, and sometimes taking those stupid minors while doing it. I just can't see a situation where Ballard would lay a massive check and SOB wouldn't go there and try to help him in any way possible.
If you played for the Canucks, there really weren't lots of reasons to fight last year. You know, spontaneous ones. I mean, is the glass gonna challenge someone after Bernier lays the body on it again and again? Don't think so.
Can't really comment on that. Lots of players do all kinds of stuff during summer, and if that's true it doesn't really surprise me. However, it really has nothing to do with his on-ice performances or maturing on-ice/during the season, and everyone who watched last year's playoffs saw he finally started to grow up (took responsibility on his actions).
Fair enough. We can agree to disagree, at least in part. I'm generally not that anti-SOB, but as I've said I think his professionalism is very much in question. The fact that he's already put on a bunch of weight screams "not serious" to me, but that's up for Mike Gillis to decide.
I will re-iterate once again, however, that Shane O'Brien probably had more than two opportunities to mix it up last season after a hit by a teammate or after a player on the other team took a liberty with one of his teammates. He is simply disinterested in being a mean, physical deterrant. That's a shame for him, because it's going to be his only reasonable role in this league. If he was a mean, reliable #6 that took his job seriously he'd be a lot more valuable to this or any other team in the league.
But I'll leave it at that. Hopefully I'm wrong and if he comes back he proves it.
I'm one of the bigger SOB fans on this board but I defintately wouldn't mind seeing him go. Aside from adequete defense, he doesn't bring a whole lot to this team. He's also disappointing in the physical side of the game. Also, I don't think he has enough talent to be on this team anymore. My only concern with losing SOB would be potentially missing out on an asset by letting his rights expire rather than dealing him.
Plus he provides the team with more off ice difficulties than the rest of the roster combined. He's a third pair d-man and has an attitude doesn't fit that role.
Some people think either he or Bieksa will be gone before the season starts but I think both will be gone.
I know for a fact that Evander Kane works out in the gym for a few hours each day and skates out at Richmond every day. That's what an NHL player should be doing if he wants to improve. What's O'Brien doing? is he hungover? is he going to the Roxy tonight to hit on some 18 year olds? The guy came back out of shape after a 2 week break. He's pathetic, immature and needs to go.
trade him. get another depth dman to replace sob. sure he's improved in the disipline department. he sticks up for teamates and fights when needed. im sure gillis can find a cheaper guy filling the number 6/7 role.
Plus he provides the team with more off ice difficulties than the rest of the roster combined. He's a third pair d-man and has an attitude doesn't fit that role.
Some people think either he or Bieksa will be gone before the season starts but I think both will be gone.
I know for a fact that Evander Kane works out in the gym for a few hours each day and skates out at Richmond every day. That's what an NHL player should be doing if he wants to improve. What's O'Brien doing? is he hungover? is he going to the Roxy tonight to hit on some 18 year olds?(he does this I know that for a fact as well). The guy came back out of shape after a 2 week break. He's pathetic, immature and needs to go.
Agree with this post fully. o'brien needs to go.
Hes a bot pairing dman that thinks he a top 4 and has an attitude problem.
It's Alberts that sticks out like a sore thumb. Too bad we couldn't get a late pick or something for him... Would love to get Mitchell on a 1-year discount at 2,5 or so, and trade Bieksa for someone like Stafford
Wouldn't surprise me at all. At this point the Canucks already have 7 defensemen under contract and it appears that Gillis wants to add at least one more, likely a top 4 guy. If that's the case O'Brien has no future with this team.
O'Brien and Hamhuis in, Bieksa out.
Edler - Ehrhoff
Salo - Hamhuis
Ballard - O'Brien
Alberts
