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Offer Sheet Marc Staal

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06-28-2010, 08:18 PM
  #1
c4rcy
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Offer Sheet Marc Staal

For what Marc Staal is asking for ($3.5-$3.75 mid-length term), he would be an outstanding addition to the young core. Sather and Staal are extremely far apart in contract negotiations. Should we offer sheet him for that much?

He is easily worth our 2011 first and our 2011 3rd (anything up to $3.92M) for that price. I assume we'll be picking late provided that Murray signs a few people on Thursday. Considering that the 2011 class is fairly weak and we have a dire need for a legitimate #2 D-man, IMO this is what Murray could do to help build a young core and not waste money on aging geezers or talentless fruitcakes.

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06-28-2010, 08:22 PM
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Rangers would match anything under $4M easily IMO.

We would have to offer $4.75M+ to get it done.

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06-28-2010, 08:24 PM
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Hasn't Sather offered 4/14, which is 3.5 per year. Staal's agent wants more annually or less years for that amount.

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06-28-2010, 08:25 PM
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Yea...after hastily reading some of the Rangers' comments, I'd probably bump it to 4.5M/yr. I thought the Rangers were in more of cap relief mode rather than buy mode.

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06-28-2010, 08:36 PM
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We'd have to have Bobby signed first.

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06-28-2010, 08:38 PM
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We'd have to have Bobby signed first.
if not they will offer sheet him instantly

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06-28-2010, 08:47 PM
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I'd rather trade for him than offer-sheet him. An offer sheet all but guarantees a ridiculous contract, and if that's the case we might as well offer big money to Martin and not give up any compensation.

He's young enough that if you had to give up a young asset as part of the trade, you probably do it. Assuming you could sign him for something not too stupid. Sbisa + a roster player?

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06-28-2010, 08:50 PM
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After Murray made a statement to all other 29 GMs, saying if they attempted an offer sheet to Ryan, that he'd match and go after their RFAs, I really doubt he'd turn around and start throwing out offer sheets.

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06-28-2010, 10:48 PM
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I think staal would be worth a 4.5 mil per year contract.. if we sign him to a long one i think even 5 would be good.. although its risky

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06-28-2010, 10:59 PM
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Offer sheets are a bad idea in general.

In order to get the other team to not match, you have to offer a lot of money and thus you give up a lot of draft picks...and then somewhere down the line the opposing team will try to poach your star RFA.

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06-28-2010, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbt View Post
I'd rather trade for him than offer-sheet him. An offer sheet all but guarantees a ridiculous contract, and if that's the case we might as well offer big money to Martin and not give up any compensation.

He's young enough that if you had to give up a young asset as part of the trade, you probably do it. Assuming you could sign him for something not too stupid. Sbisa + a roster player?
Can't imagine NYR would move Staal unless he's looking for $5M per season or his relationship breaks down with the team. I don't know if NYR would be able to move him with other pieces to upgrade their blue line, or if they are entering a retool/rebuild mode (in which case why move a 23 year dman with Top 2 potential ?).

If we have to trade parts back, then I'd rather move Gardiner + Wisniewski's rights than Sbisa. Wiz will get less than the projected amount for Staal, and at 26 he is still young enough to contribute for many years. Gardiner's value as a prospect is probably as high as it will get, and since we picked up Fowler I think Jake is moveable in a deal that upgrades the blue line.

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06-28-2010, 11:56 PM
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Jerky Leclerc
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Don't mess with the Rangers. They have the money to match and do the same.

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06-29-2010, 12:32 AM
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I think offer sheets are powerful strategic weapons that for some reason remain silent in the league. I mean of course you are going to make people angry, but as long as you be careful with RFA on your team(sign them before the first) then it could be a powerful tool. Signing a RFA to a slightly higher offer then they are given by the their team, to a point where they would match but be unhappy about it, would weaken teams cap space and could be a valuable tool.

As for Ryan, he says he will match, but i cannot see him matching a 5.5-6 million sheet. I just can't cause that would mean when Getzlaf and Perry become FA's that will really screw up the team.

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06-29-2010, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 8inblack View Post
I think offer sheets are powerful strategic weapons that for some reason remain silent in the league. I mean of course you are going to make people angry, but as long as you be careful with RFA on your team(sign them before the first) then it could be a powerful tool. Signing a RFA to a slightly higher offer then they are given by the their team, to a point where they would match but be unhappy about it, would weaken teams cap space and could be a valuable tool.

As for Ryan, he says he will match, but i cannot see him matching a 5.5-6 million sheet. I just can't cause that would mean when Getzlaf and Perry become FA's that will really screw up the team.
A few things:

1) Taking care of your own RFA's before July 1st becomes much more costly. The only leverage a RFA with no arbitration rights (like Bobby) has in contract negotiations is to either hold out or attract an offer sheet. If you increase the possibility of those RFA's attracting an offer sheet by throwing them around yourself, you give them a lot more leverage. Thus you end up paying premium prices on your RFA's.

2) A 6 million per year offer sheet compensation is a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd. Same as we got for Penner. If a team like LA or Nashville, both of whom have a need for a top winger and loads of capspace were to give him that, we'd lose Bobby for something like 25th, 55th and 85th overall picks. Decent prospect, average prospect and a longshot. And we'd hand a competitor a slightly overpaid first liner. Horrible.

3) Getz and Perry are under contract for 3 more years. When they're UFA, there's going to be a new CBA in place. It's impossible to know what the NHL looks like then an in any case, they'll get top dollar as UFA's regardless of if Bobby gets 6 or not.

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06-29-2010, 02:55 AM
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Just not a good idea. I just don't believe in this...when has a RFA offer sheet ever worked out?

We should know...the Penner offer sheet was great for the Ducks, even if Penner had a good season last year.

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06-29-2010, 02:42 PM
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Just not a good idea. I just don't believe in this...when has a RFA offer sheet ever worked out?
The Blues signed Scott Stevens to an offer sheet in 1990. The Caps got five first rounders back, but the only two who panned out were Sergei Gonchar and Brendan Witt. Things were looking good for the Blues until they offer sheeted Brendan Shanahan in 1991. Since St. Louis didn't have any first rounders in the near future, an arbitrator awarded Stevens to New Jersey as compensation. Even then, an in his prime Shanahan was well worth the gamble of five 1sts and eventually yielded Chris Pronger.

The Rangers got Adam Graves via offer sheet and didn't give up anything worthwhile.

But yeah, most offer sheets backfire. Either the team matches or the player ends up with an inflated contract with his new team.

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06-29-2010, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
The Blues signed Scott Stevens to an offer sheet in 1990. The Caps got five first rounders back, but the only two who panned out were Sergei Gonchar and Brendan Witt. Things were looking good for the Blues until they offer sheeted Brendan Shanahan in 1991. Since St. Louis didn't have any first rounders in the near future, an arbitrator awarded Stevens to New Jersey as compensation. Even then, an in his prime Shanahan was well worth the gamble of five 1sts and eventually yielded Chris Pronger.

The Rangers got Adam Graves via offer sheet and didn't give up anything worthwhile.

But yeah, most offer sheets backfire. Either the team matches or the player ends up with an inflated contract with his new team.
Excellent memory, old timer. I might have mentioned those signings, but I didn't want to date myself (I like myself just as a friend).

Other than Penner, I guess the other big ones recently were Kessel and Vanek. The Leafs seem to have screwed themselves, and Vanek ended up severely overpaid.

Under the previous CBA the compensation was so damn high for anyone worth offer-sheeting that it pretty much was prohibitive.

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06-29-2010, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
The Blues signed Scott Stevens to an offer sheet in 1990. The Caps got five first rounders back, but the only two who panned out were Sergei Gonchar and Brendan Witt. Things were looking good for the Blues until they offer sheeted Brendan Shanahan in 1991. Since St. Louis didn't have any first rounders in the near future, an arbitrator awarded Stevens to New Jersey as compensation. Even then, an in his prime Shanahan was well worth the gamble of five 1sts and eventually yielded Chris Pronger.

The Rangers got Adam Graves via offer sheet and didn't give up anything worthwhile.

But yeah, most offer sheets backfire. Either the team matches or the player ends up with an inflated contract with his new team.
Alright fair enough.

I guess I just don't like it...and I know this is a stupid reason, but it just doesn't seem like the right way to go about doing something.

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06-30-2010, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Emerald Duck View Post
Can't imagine NYR would move Staal unless he's looking for $5M per season or his relationship breaks down with the team. I don't know if NYR would be able to move him with other pieces to upgrade their blue line, or if they are entering a retool/rebuild mode (in which case why move a 23 year dman with Top 2 potential ?).

If we have to trade parts back, then I'd rather move Gardiner + Wisniewski's rights than Sbisa. Wiz will get less than the projected amount for Staal, and at 26 he is still young enough to contribute for many years. Gardiner's value as a prospect is probably as high as it will get, and since we picked up Fowler I think Jake is moveable in a deal that upgrades the blue line.
This is arguable, but Gardiner is farther a long to making the team then Fowler is. Gardiner has already put in a few seasons where Fowler hasn't. I think moving Gardiner will only hurt us down the road while we wait for Fowler to catch up.

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06-30-2010, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Emerald Duck View Post
Can't imagine NYR would move Staal unless he's looking for $5M per season or his relationship breaks down with the team. I don't know if NYR would be able to move him with other pieces to upgrade their blue line, or if they are entering a retool/rebuild mode (in which case why move a 23 year dman with Top 2 potential ?).

If we have to trade parts back, then I'd rather move Gardiner + Wisniewski's rights than Sbisa. Wiz will get less than the projected amount for Staal, and at 26 he is still young enough to contribute for many years. Gardiner's value as a prospect is probably as high as it will get, and since we picked up Fowler I think Jake is moveable in a deal that upgrades the blue line.
Gardiner's value isn't as high as it will get. I for one am very high on him and wouldn't move him in any deal unless a true #1 Dman was coming back. I believe Murray feels the same way since he was hanging up on deals asking for Gardiner at the deadline.

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06-30-2010, 08:20 PM
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Bad news.

Just realized that we can't offer sheet Staal because we don't have a 3rd next year (or we haven't completely earned the 3rd yet) because of the Pogge trade with Toronto:
Quote:
If Pogge ends up starting 30 or more regular-season games for the Ducks -- or another NHL team he is traded to by Anaheim -- between the 2009-10 and 2010-11 seasons, the Maple Leafs would receive the [third round] pick [in 2011]. - [emphasis added] - NHL.com
So unless he can be offer sheeted for less than 3.1M, there's no way we can do this, unless Carolina trades him(we might find out by tomorrow) then we'd get our 3rd fully in our possession.

This might affect Bobby's situation in the sense that if another team offer sheets him, we can't go after the opposing GM's RFA's.


Last edited by c4rcy: 06-30-2010 at 08:34 PM.
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