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06-29-2010, 10:41 AM
  #51
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Regarding the question of deterring future free agents, there have been some good points about lure of money, having confidence in their own abilities, doubting that they'll ever decline as much as Redden did, understanding why the team had to demote him and, the best one IMO, do you really want anyone here who would be scared away by the prospect? But here's another one;

If the Rangers do demote him, it will be after TWO FULL YEARS of outright terrible play. He had his chance to prove himself over and over again - and he failed over and over again. Could anyone possibly look at this situation from the outside and not feel that Wade got a completely fair shake?

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06-29-2010, 10:42 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by rangers1314 View Post
Is that even an option? Can a deal just be torn up like that if the player agree to it? Without a cap penalty to the team?
If the Rangers assign Redden to the minors, and he refuses, the contract is automatically terminated. It's possible, lets just hope that he refuses to report

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06-29-2010, 10:42 AM
  #53
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Is that even an option? Can a deal just be torn up like that if the player agree to it? Without a cap penalty to the team?
Petr Sykora did it. If a team demotes a player and the player refuses to report (refusing to give his services, thus breaching the terms of his contract), the team and the player can mutually agree to break the contract.

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06-29-2010, 10:49 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Regarding the question of deterring future free agents, there have been some good points about lure of money, having confidence in their own abilities, doubting that they'll ever decline as much as Redden did, understanding why the team had to demote him and, the best one IMO, do you really want anyone here who would be scared away by the prospect? But here's another one;

If the Rangers do demote him, it will be after TWO FULL YEARS of outright terrible play. He had his chance to prove himself over and over again - and he failed over and over again. Could anyone possibly look at this situation from the outside and not feel that Wade got a completely fair shake?
Yeah, the guy had a long time to step up. He looked lazy out there, like he didn't give a da**. I'd go so far as to say it's *possible* he was deliberately failing. No hustle. No effort. No hard skating. Seemed like the boos got to him and his attitude was that the Rangers and the fanbase can go fu** themselves.

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06-29-2010, 10:50 AM
  #55
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If the NYR sign a Dman then Redden is gone. I can see a deal for Mitchell

Staal, Girardi
Del Zotto, Rozsival
Mitchell, McDonaugh, Gilroy

Redden will be in Hartford and pray the NHL comes up with a one time buy out. He could go to the KHL but I doubt it

Also he may just be on re-entry and someone may take a chance at 3.25 but I doubt that. the cap hit would suck but if you look around the league teams are doing it

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06-29-2010, 10:51 AM
  #56
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All the indicators pointing to the Rangers employing youth gives me reason to believe that Redden is NOT getting demoted, and for us here it's another long year of watching him collect paychecks.

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06-29-2010, 10:54 AM
  #57
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Would/will like this team so much better without Brashear and Redden.

Totally subscribe to the in-house retool but still part of me wants to see Ilya in blue. Won't cry over a Volchenkov/Ponikorovsky signing though.

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06-29-2010, 10:54 AM
  #58
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I know it may sound silly now..

But we may look back one day and look at the Redden signing (or demotion) as a turning point for this team.

Between Sather not wanting to make the same terrible mistake again and the future GM not wanting to repeat the reputation of such a fiscally irresponsible history, the team could pride itself on making sound decisions with contracts.

Too bad it only took decades to accomplish. But I think we are already beginning to see it (in a sense) with all the youngsters slated to be in the lineup. Though its largely due to the fact that there really aren't any other alternatives.

But then again, he could turn around and sign Shelly to a 2 year 2.2 million dollar contract and throw a boatload of cash at a UFA and we could be back in the same boat all over again...

The joys of being a Rangers fan.

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06-29-2010, 10:55 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by DrAStuart View Post
I had always understood that you can't waive someone in the off season which is why NYR has to wait until after camp to waive WR.

So how come Cheechoo, Kotalik and others all got waived yesterday by their respective teams?
Waiving a player and sending him down are 2 different things. Waiving a player does not remove him from the cap unless another team picks him up. Once a player clears waivers, the team has 10 games or 30 days to send him down. If he is not sent down within that time frame, he must be waived again in order to be sent down.

Once a player is sent down, he no longer counts against the cap. But players can't be sent down during the offseason. We have to carry that cap hit until the season starts, though we can also be 10% over the cap until that time.

Cheechoo and Kotalik were waived because it is required by the CBA prior to a buyout.

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06-29-2010, 10:58 AM
  #60
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LOL...one of my memories of Redden was when I went to the Rangers vs. Devs game (the one towards the end of the year where we won 3-1 on 3 quick goals in the 2nd)...

...anyway, Redden launched the puck up into the stands like an a**hole and got a delay of game penalty. The crowd booed him loudly. This drunk Devs fan behind me was shouting that Ranger fans are so dumb that we boo the penalty call on an obvious, undeniable penalty. I turned around and explained we were booing because we despise Redden....he was just like "oh."

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06-29-2010, 11:04 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
It really does not seem that way when you think about the Knicks. I think I read that they spent $120 million dollars on a group of no more than 8 players that combined for 82 man games. You would think that burying Redden would be a non-issue when looking at those numbers.
When I said money, I was referring more to profit. If burying Redden in the minors brings in Kovalchuk, Dolan knows it is a smart financial move. Between all of money from merchandise and all of the media attention signing Kovy brings, I'm sure Dolan won't give a **** if Redden is in the minors.

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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Good point KH30. If someone has doubts about their game then they shouldn't belong here.

A guy like Redden who pisses and moans when he isnt played (even though its completely apparent he is a shadow of his former self) should be made an example of.

I think if this happens (and I'm also in the ill believe it when i see it pack) we should have a massive HF party.

Hopefully a precursor to the bigger parade which is the direct source of the majority of our woes - The departure of Glen Sather. How many times have we seen deals, waivings, buy outs, etc. that are make ups of his past mistakes. How many times does this guy have to publicly admit his failures to kick his own ass out of the organization?? Geezz.
Thank you.

This organization is a magnet for free agents. The appeal of NYC, the hospitality, easy traveling schedule, more media attention (compared to other teams) and playing for a team with a somewhat-rich history is enough to lure any player in the world in. We are a world-class organization, current and past players both knows this. Sadly enough this attracts pretty much every type of player, including heartless and effortless ones.

I consider burying Redden in the minors a huge positive (in many aspects) for this team. Think about all of the options it makes available:

-Addition by subtraction; it gives us the ability to sign a FA defensemen or allow a player like McD to take his spot

- Obviously 6.5M off the books, gives us a serious chance at taking a run at Kovalchuk or other offensive free agents (depending on if your pro or anti Kovy )

-Gives the Rangers the image that if you can't play well for us, don't sign. Which I view as a huge plus, obviously due to our poor history in UFA signings

-Makes more playing time available for younger defensemen like Gilroy who really need it

I really really hope the Rangers' brass follows through with this. I'm not going to believe it until i see it, but I just don't believe this organization has enough balls to do it.

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06-29-2010, 11:10 AM
  #62
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^^ Think of it like killing a rat, pinning it to the wall and writing with its blood on the wall underneath: "Tell your friends"

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06-29-2010, 11:10 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Petr Sykora did it. If a team demotes a player and the player refuses to report (refusing to give his services, thus breaching the terms of his contract), the team and the player can mutually agree to break the contract.
Sykora's contract with Wild was for 1.6 million for one year. Sykora was paid more than half by Jan since Sept. He was looking to play in Words which might not be possible while in AHL. No way Redden will give millions away, pride has its limits. Byout is what he could agree, but that is not what Sather would like. Hartford it is.

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06-29-2010, 11:11 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by DrAStuart View Post
I had always understood that you can't waive someone in the off season which is why NYR has to wait until after camp to waive WR.

So how come Cheechoo, Kotalik and others all got waived yesterday by their respective teams?
They were waived with the intention of being bought out. That is entirely different.

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06-29-2010, 11:12 AM
  #65
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If Sather had enough balls to trade a career-long Ranger legend without telling him to his face, he should have enough balls to demote a sub-par free agent signing.

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06-29-2010, 11:15 AM
  #66
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Reading this article makes me sick...

"He was very professional, as he is with everything," Sather said last night on a conference call. "He didn't say an awful lot. He didn't express an awful lot of emotion."

"It's difficult to make any moves of this magnitude," Sather said.

"We're obviously rebuilding and we have to do what we can do to help this club proceed and be successful in the future."

"We will go ahead with a new philosophy and a new attitude," Sather said.



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...-toronto_x.htm

Yeah, Sathers got balls alright. This should be a cakewalk.

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06-29-2010, 11:18 AM
  #67
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check this out guys:

http://www.snyrangersblog.com/

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06-29-2010, 11:19 AM
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If Torts gets the final decision on who makes the team out of camp there's a 0% chance that Redden makes it. Sucking is one thing, but sucking, not trying and also whining about not getting minutes is on a whole different level. For example, Gilroy had a rough year but he hustled when he was on the ice and he's not complaining about being in the A for seasoning. Thats fine by me, if you can't hack it, go down and build your confidence, be graceful about it and keep working hard. But to stay on the team, not try and then make an issue of your lack of ice time like Redden does is inexcusable and pretty much the polar opposite of everything that Torts talks about this team needing to succeed. Also, if I had to guess, I'd say Redden is a part of the locker room that Torts says needs to go. There is nothing inspiring about his effort or his play.

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06-29-2010, 11:21 AM
  #69
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Once again, I must come to Redden's defense.

First let me say that of course I hope he is sent to the minors. Of course his signing has been a disaster and is an albatross around the neck of this franchise. Of course I hope to never see him in a Ranger jersey again. Goodbye, adios, adieu, sayonara.

But to accuse him of a lack of effort is just not the case. What I saw was an aging defenseman with diminishing skills who could no longer do what he once could. It was not a question of effort, conditioning, or desire. In many ways he is a consummate professional. Yes, he had to be kicked in the rear by Torts, but with very few exceptions all athletes (and all of us in the general population) occasionally need to be told to ramp it up. What I saw last year was a defenseman once know for his offensive skills trying to make the transition to a stay at home Dman. Problem is that he is being paid obscene money to be an offensive Dman. Problem is that he doesn't have the body or physical assets to be a crease-clearing, physical Dman. Problem is that his skills will continue to deteriorate as he ages further. But, you have to admit that over the last few weeks of the year, along with Ericson, he was part of a rather effective, veteran, defense first pairing.

Don't get me wrong. I want him gone ASAP. But to accuse him of a lack of effort (not being a particularly demonstrative or physical personality to start of with) is just wrong. Don't accuse diminishing skating skills, failing quickness, a low-key personality, and a non assertive presence with a lack of effort.

But, as we all agree, the quicker he is gone from this team the better.

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06-29-2010, 11:21 AM
  #70
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"He's been discussed" - Glen Sather...

he should have said "He's been disgusting"

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06-29-2010, 11:22 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Sykora's contract with Wild was for 1.6 million for one year. Sykora was paid more than half by Jan since Sept. He was looking to play in Words which might not be possible while in AHL. No way Redden will give millions away, pride has its limits. Byout is what he could agree, but that is not what Sather would like. Hartford it is.
Oh of course, for him it's a matter of pride vs money and with the amount of money he makes, it'd be shocking that he'd pick pride. However, we can hope

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06-29-2010, 11:23 AM
  #72
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Reading this article makes me sick...

"He was very professional, as he is with everything," Sather said last night on a conference call. "He didn't say an awful lot. He didn't express an awful lot of emotion."

"It's difficult to make any moves of this magnitude," Sather said.

"We're obviously rebuilding and we have to do what we can do to help this club proceed and be successful in the future."

"We will go ahead with a new philosophy and a new attitude," Sather said.



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...-toronto_x.htm

Yeah, Sathers got balls alright. This should be a cakewalk.
Oh my goodness that article really is sickening for so many reasons...

The quote about 'proceeding to be successful in the future'...what future? Six years since the trade and nothing. Sather is still rearranging the deck chairs.

Didn't all those trades in 2004 turn out well?

Brian Leetch has done more for this Ranger organization than Glen Sather will ever do.

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06-29-2010, 11:25 AM
  #73
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Oh my goodness that article really is sickening for so many reasons...

The quote about 'proceeding to be successful in the future'...what future? Six years since the trade and nothing. Sather is still rearranging the deck chairs.

Didn't all those trades in 2004 turn out well?

Brian Leetch has done more for this Ranger organization than Glen Sather will ever do.
He should never have been allowed to trade Leetch.

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06-29-2010, 11:26 AM
  #74
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Despite not making the playoffs last year, the Rangers had some pretty good years after 2004. 100, 94, 97, and 95 point seasons, and their group of young players has definitely gotten better since 2004 and they're contributing in significant ways.

It's still not enough but to pretend like this organization has gone nowhere since 2004 is fairly disingenuous

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06-29-2010, 11:30 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
If Torts gets the final decision on who makes the team out of camp there's a 0% chance that Redden makes it. Sucking is one thing, but sucking, not trying and also whining about not getting minutes is on a whole different level. For example, Gilroy had a rough year but he hustled when he was on the ice and he's not complaining about being in the A for seasoning. Thats fine by me, if you can't hack it, go down and build your confidence, be graceful about it and keep working hard. But to stay on the team, not try and then make an issue of your lack of ice time like Redden does is inexcusable and pretty much the polar opposite of everything that Torts talks about this team needing to succeed. Also, if I had to guess, I'd say Redden is a part of the locker room that Torts says needs to go. There is nothing inspiring about his effort or his play.
good point and if you remember, Torts said Gilroy going down to work on his game a positive thing. Not every prospect hits the ground running.

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