That said, most of those other teams would kill for our kind of success in the first, particularly the late first, round.
Now this we can agree on. Imagine being a habs fan...Chouinard over Gagne, Marcel Hossa over Williams, A. Kostitsyn over Carter and Richards, Fischer over Giroux. Haha...sucks to be them.
Janne Niinnimaa in 1993 is the answer btw. That's the last 2nd rd pick the Flyers made that has made an impact in the NHL. That's ridiculous and pathetic. Hopefully Marshall will become something.
Now this we can agree on. Imagine being a habs fan...Chouinard over Gagne, Marcel Hossa over Williams, A. Kostitsyn over Carter and Richards, Fischer over Giroux. Haha...sucks to be them.
Janne Niinnimaa in 1993 is the answer btw. That's the last 2nd rd pick the Flyers made that has made an impact in the NHL. That's ridiculous and pathetic. Hopefully Marshall will become something.
Actually. It's from Janne Niinimaa (1993) to Andreas Nodl (2006). In that span of 12 years in between (not including Niinimaa's year and Nodl's year), the Flyers selected only five players in the 2nd round. So yeah, your argument is skewed. You're telling half-truths.
COMPLETE
1990
1st - Mike Ricci - 1099
2nd - Chris Simon - 782
2nd - Mikael Renberg - 661
3rd - Chris Therien - 764
5th - Dan Kordic - 197
6th - Vyacheslav Butsayev - 132
11th - Tommy Soderstrom - 156
(one 2nd round bust; three 3rd round busts)
1991
1st - Peter Forsberg - 706
4th - Aris Brimanis - 113
6th - Dmitri Yushkevich - 786
7th - Andrei Lomakin - 215
(one 3rd round bust)
1992
10th - Chris Harperger - 169
(two 1st round busts; one 2nd round bust)
Basically one out of every four players we took from 1990 to 2005 became an NHLer for more than 100 games. Others obviously went on to have even longer careers.
Let me save you some time...you and I have a better chance of seeing Jesus tonight than these players ever making the Flyers. You're arguing in circles over nothing. They didn't miss any gems that you think you know about, and if they did then every other team is just as dumb because they all passed on your little boy-crushes as well. You don't stock the cupboard in rounds 4-7...if anything, making the AHL will be the ceiling for these guys. These are all shot in the dark picks and all will most likely never make an impact in the organization. You and this Rocket guy need to stop acting like prospect gurus. I trust the scouts who have actually watched these kids in person and have held conversations with them.
Don't be too quick to just dismiss them. Just because they are later round picks doesn't mean they will never make it. Yes this team has been poor in picking late round players up to an possibly including 05, but after that it is too soon to tell who will make it. The NHL as a whole sees a lot more later round picks make it then many on here seem to suggest. I took a window from 98 to 03 and from those drafts 75 or so players have played 200 or more NHL games that were picked in the 5th round and later.
I'm not saying any of these kids picked this year are locks by any stretch, but to immediately dismiss them is ridiculous. I have a lot more faith in this group of scouts than I have ever before because (except for Greig, who I will never forgive for the Klotz pick) over the past few years they have been proving themselves to be pretty good. I'd say from 06 and on they have done a pretty decent job with the limited picks we have had. Guys like Maroon, and Wellwood were late picks. Erickson was late. Popov was late. Kalinsky. None of those guys are NHLers yet and may never be but they certainly have a shot at it and have been developing well.
Actually. It's from Janne Niinimaa (1993) to Andreas Nodl (2006). In that span of 12 years in between (not including Niinimaa's year and Nodl's year), the Flyers selected only five players in the 2nd round. So yeah, your argument is skewed. You're telling half-truths.
I'm well aware of the lack of 2nd rounders...that's a big part of the problem. They've been given away a little too liberally at times. And I would hardly consider Nodl a 2nd round success. He'll top out as a 3rd line grinder if he's lucky...I think you should aim a little higher with a pick that high.
I think the ultimate point is there's no point in whining too much about these picks when the vast majority of them don't pan out.
This...thank you. People getting worked up over late round picks is silly. Statistics say that none of these players will ever amount to anything...big deal. Of course they all have a shot of becoming a player, but the chances are slim.
I'm well aware of the lack of 2nd rounders...that's a big part of the problem. They've been given away a little too liberally at times. And I would hardly consider Nodl a 2nd round success. He'll top out as a 3rd line grinder if he's lucky...I think you should aim a little higher with a pick that high.
He's already a 3rd line grinder. If he's lucky, he'll top out at a 2nd line versatile two-way winger. Unlikely, but possible. Honestly, I think you should keep your opinions to yourself if they're not worth reading.
He's already a 3rd line grinder. If he's lucky, he'll top out at a 2nd line versatile two-way winger. Unlikely, but possible. Honestly, I think you should keep your opinions to yourself if they're not worth reading.
He's a fourth liner, I watch the games too. He won't make the team next year and he'll never make an impact on the Flyers. And the only way he plays on a second line is if he's with a team with horrible forward depth.
So my opinions aren't worth reading because you disagree? That's a very immature thing to say. Like I said before, just because you act like some sort of expert and post more than anyone else doesn't make you right. Check out my join date...I've been reading these boards for a long time. Quite frankly your presence the past year has kept me from reading the Flyers board and the Trade Rumors board as much as I used to. You're a blind homer and a know-it-all...you overrate every Flyers player and prospect. Some of the nonsense you spout on the Trade Rumors board is embarrassing to all us Flyers fans. I get d0uche chills reading your posts...I feel bad for you. You can't possibly have any friends
He's a fourth liner, I watch the games too. He won't make the team next year and he'll never make an impact on the Flyers. And the only way he plays on a second line is if he's with a team with horrible forward depth.
So my opinions aren't worth reading because you disagree? That's a very immature thing to say. Like I said before, just because you act like some sort of expert and post more than anyone else doesn't make you right. Check out my join date...I've been reading these boards for a long time. Quite frankly your presence the past year has kept me from reading the Flyers board and the Trade Rumors board as much as I used to. You're a blind homer and a know-it-all...you overrate every Flyers player and prospect. Some of the nonsense you spout on the Trade Rumors board is embarrassing to all us Flyers fans. I get d0uche chills reading your posts...I feel bad for you. You can't possibly have any friends
since when were you a Flyers fan? I don't recall ever seeing you here except for the past day to ***** and moan and say we suck at drafting.
He's a fourth liner, I watch the games too. He won't make the team next year and he'll never make an impact on the Flyers. And the only way he plays on a second line is if he's with a team with horrible forward depth.
Really? Just how sure do you think you are?
You've been wrong on pretty much everything so far, and now you're touting your apparently "professional" opinion as fact. The truth is you what you "know" about the Flyers isn't real knowledge. It's only skin-deep observation and analysis that anyone who can read can create. Unfortunately for you, when that skin-deep analysis steers you in the wrong direction, it's easy for others to tell that you don't know what you're talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Octagon
So my opinions aren't worth reading because you disagree?
No, your opinions aren't worth reading because they aren't backed by anything substantial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Octagon
That's a very immature thing to say.
How is it immature to say outright that you're basically making things up as you go along. You're more than welcome to your opinion. I have no problem with opinions. I have problem in the world, however, with people who cite their own opinions as obvious fact as if they are some expert only for their arguments to carry little to no actual value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Octagon
Like I said before, just because you act like some sort of expert and post more than anyone else doesn't make you right.
No, it doesn't make me right. The fact that I'm willing to do the research, take time to learn things before I make skin-deep appraisals, and back up my claims is what makes me right. I'm not 100%. No one can be, but if I'm going to say something, I'm going to make sure I have something to back up what I'm saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Octagon
Check out my join date...I've been reading these boards for a long time.
Congratulations?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Octagon
Quite frankly your presence the past year has kept me from reading the Flyers board and the Trade Rumors board as much as I used to.
Maybe it's for the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Octagon
You're a blind homer and a know-it-all...you overrate every Flyers player and prospect.
Sure I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Octagon
Some of the nonsense you spout on the Trade Rumors board is embarrassing to all us Flyers fans.
You're a Flyers' fan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Octagon
I get d0uche chills reading your posts...I feel bad for you. You can't possibly have any friends
You've been wrong on pretty much everything so far, and now you're touting your apparently "professional" opinion as fact. The truth is you what you "know" about the Flyers isn't real knowledge. It's only skin-deep observation and analysis that anyone who can read can create. Unfortunately for you, when that skin-deep analysis steers you in the wrong direction, it's easy for others to tell that you don't know what you're talking about.
No, your opinions aren't worth reading because they aren't backed by anything substantial.
How is it immature to say outright that you're basically making things up as you go along. You're more than welcome to your opinion. I have no problem with opinions. I have problem in the world, however, with people who cite their own opinions as obvious fact as if they are some expert only for their arguments to carry little to no actual value.
No, it doesn't make me right. The fact that I'm willing to do the research, take time to learn things before I make skin-deep appraisals, and back up my claims is what makes me right. I'm not 100%. No one can be, but if I'm going to say something, I'm going to make sure I have something to back up what I'm saying.
FanHabtic is my "BFF", but you can be my friend too.
We'll start an HF gang.
can we get bad ass leather jackets? Perhaps have a shake down with a rival gang like West Side Story and snap our fingers and do a lil jig. . . that'd be awesome.
He's already a 3rd line grinder. If he's lucky, he'll top out at a 2nd line versatile two-way winger. Unlikely, but possible. Honestly, I think you should keep your opinions to yourself if they're not worth reading.
Don't be a pompous jerk, dude, because there are plenty of times when your opinions (of the ridiculous homer variety, normally) aren't worth reading, either. I'm getting tired of you fancying yourself some kind of hockey expert -- and don't for a second try to tell me you don't think of yourself that way -- just because you happened to get a gig writing for this site. Guess what, once upon a time I wrote for this site, too -- it's not really a difficult position to attain.
Don't be a pompous jerk, dude, because there are plenty of times when your opinions (of the ridiculous homer variety, normally) aren't worth reading, either. I'm getting tired of you fancying yourself some kind of hockey expert -- and don't for a second try to tell me you don't think of yourself that way -- just because you happened to get a gig writing for this site. Guess what, once upon a time I wrote for this site, too -- it's not really a difficult position to attain.
I had a post typed about how I'm not really a jerk or arrogant; that I just don't take too kindly to getting attacked just because I'm a Staff Member and everyone wants to prove their opinions are better than mine.
But I decided my personality is not an appropriate discussion here. If you don't like me, then message me. I will address your concerns personally. I'm a nice guy and easy enough to get along with.
I can assure you though that my apparent arrogance has nothing to do with my position. Neither do my opinions. They are mine, and just because you do not see eye to eye with me does not make me a homer or arrogant. I'm allowed to defend myself, particularly against being called a homer.
I had a post typed about how I'm not really a jerk or arrogant; that I just don't take too kindly to getting attacked just because I'm a Staff Member and everyone wants to prove their opinions are better than mine.
But I decided my personality is not an appropriate discussion here. If you don't like me, then message me. I will address your concerns personally. I'm a nice guy and easy enough to get along with.
I can assure you though that my apparent arrogance has nothing to do with my position. Neither do my opinions. They are mine, and just because you do not see eye to eye with me does not make me a homer or arrogant. I'm allowed to defend myself, particularly against being called a homer.
Just put these morons on ignore, it's great, you never have to read their garbage at all unless someone quotes them.
havent thought much of Nodl in awhile. I had good expectations for him a couple years ago but that went away quickly. Cant see him ever becoming a consistant top 9 player. He just doesnt bring anything at all at the NHL level and I doubt he ever will.
He is what he is a 4th line grinder at best. borderline bust for where he was drafted
havent thought much of Nodl in awhile. I had good expectations for him a couple years ago but that went away quickly. Cant see him ever becoming a consistant top 9 player. He just doesnt bring anything at all at the NHL level and I doubt he ever will.
He is what he is a 4th line grinder at best. borderline bust for where he was drafted
Right now, I'd feel more comfortable with Nodl in our top nine than any other forward prospect plus Carcillo and plus Powe. I also prefer him to Asham moving forward.
I have a sneaky suspicion that the Flyers' might agree with me.
Right now, I'd feel more comfortable with Nodl in our top nine than any other forward prospect plus Carcillo and plus Powe. I also prefer him to Asham moving forward.
I have a sneaky suspicion that the Flyers' might agree with me.
Nonsense, Nodl is 23, players never improve after they turn 23.
I think top-9 is where he could peak, he's never going to be a real second liner based on talent alone. On a team like the Flyers where we shuffle the talent and bring some less skilled players up to top lines to try and balance scoring, it's possible, but not in the truer sense.
Nonsense, Nodl is 23, players never improve after they turn 23.
I think top-9 is where he could peak, he's never going to be a real second liner based on talent alone. On a team like the Flyers where we shuffle the talent and bring some less skilled players up to top lines to try and balance scoring, it's possible, but not in the truer sense.
Nodl's future as a 2nd liner will depend solely on his abilities in the offensive zone without the puck. I don't think he will ever reach the 2nd line position except on a team like ours that shuffles around wingers. He will never be a PP guy for a strong team of course, but he has 30-40 point potential; possibly up to 50 in his prime with the right center.
Right now he's a 3rd liner who can chip in marginal offensive (he's better offensively right now than Kalinski, Carcillo, Powe, and maybe Asham), play a heavy forechecking role (which is great for our team), and remain competent defensively.
Nodl's future as a 2nd liner will depend solely on his abilities in the offensive zone without the puck. I don't think he will ever reach the 2nd line position except on a team like ours that shuffles around wingers. He will never be a PP guy for a strong team of course, but he has 30-40 point potential; possibly up to 50 in his prime with the right center.
Right now he's a 3rd liner who can chip in marginal offensive (he's better offensively right now than Kalinski, Carcillo, Powe, and maybe Asham), play a heavy forechecking role (which is great for our team), and remain competent defensively.
I'm okay with that.
5 points in 58 games is chipping in marginal offense? I like the energy Nodl brought to the table in his more recent callups, but he hasn't shown an ounce of offensive ability since turning pro.
Wait, are we seriously saying Nodl is already a 3rd liner? Based on what? 10 PO games where he played 6 minutes per night?
Yes, because some bum off the street who I've never seen before and I had no prior knowledge about came in and played 10 playoff games at 6 minutes a night. Of course I know nothing about him, his play style, or his history. It was obviously just a fluke, because we can't use anything but the reality you see to come up with inferences.
This is more babble in the same vein as "the world revolves around how I see it."
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
I mean, he's supposedly better than Powe/Carcillo/Asham despite being brutal during his only extended run of games here?
I said he was better offensively than Powe and Carcillo right now. I'd even take him before Asham due to his youth and skating which helps him fit better than Asham in Laviolette's system. Even then, if you were to argue Asham is an awesome weapon next to Giroux, as so many people here seem to do, just because of his one sexy deke every 20 games, I'd have to question your sanity.
Before 2008-09, Nodl came right out of camp as a 21-year-old fresh out of college, and made the NHL roster before even Claude freaking Giroux. Did he have the offensive surge we wanted to see? Of course not, but he was never that talented. He's not the kind of kid who can just jump into that role fresh out of college. He played great early but had tailed off by Christmas, which is when Giroux basically took his spot. People then turned on Nodl saying that since he couldn't find his offensive touch, he'd never become an NHLer. The kid was 21.
Before 2009-10, vanRiemsdyk came right in and shocked everyone when he made the team out of camp. He played well and had the natural ability, unlike Nodl, to make a serious surge offensively. Then he started to slide, and he stopped scoring. People wondered if we should send him to the AHL, but nobody (with any sense anyway) suggested that he didn't have the ability to become a top line NHLer.
As I've noted countless times before, so many people here seem to have selective memory. They see what they want to see and they hear what they want to hear. You may think you're above that, but you're really no different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
The frantic overhyping of marginal role players has gotten absolutely sickening, show an ounce of objectivity.
When have I ever overhyped role-players?
I am one of the biggest denouncers of Asham's top nine ability. In fact, I wanted brick-hands Powe put in his place at a number of points this season. I'm still the same person who doesn't care if Carcillo is re-signed because I think we have more talented players whose talents are more diversified already on the team while even more are on the way.
Betts and Laperriere will obviously get glorified for their PK ability and rightfully so, but soon enough Powe could probably be as good as them defensively thanks to his speed. He won't block shots like them so he won't ever get credit.
Powe also isn't without his faults. I mentioned his brick-hands. He's good defensively, but his offensive talents are checking, falling down, battling along the boards, and a speed rush breakaway. That's every single move in his arsenal. If he wasn't such a puck-shark and a hard worker, he'd be completely expendable.
So where is the overhyping of marginal role-players?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantSeeColors
5 points in 58 games is chipping in marginal offense? I like the energy Nodl brought to the table in his more recent callups, but he hasn't shown an ounce of offensive ability since turning pro.
I'm well aware. I must sound like a broken record because I point it out every time I write an article involving him.
During that analysis, you somehow failed to mention that in 08-09, Nodl was on pace to be worse than -30, the next worst on the team was -7.
So a slight problem there.
Of course, this analysis is coming from the same luminary that insisted "goaltending doesn't matter" for months, so what do I know right? As far as I'm concerned, you have pretty much zero credibility on anything right now until you show differently.
Nodl's future as a 2nd liner will depend solely on his abilities in the offensive zone without the puck. I don't think he will ever reach the 2nd line position except on a team like ours that shuffles around wingers. He will never be a PP guy for a strong team of course, but he has 30-40 point potential; possibly up to 50 in his prime with the right center.
Right now he's a 3rd liner who can chip in marginal offensive (he's better offensively right now than Kalinski, Carcillo, Powe, and maybe Asham), play a heavy forechecking role (which is great for our team), and remain competent defensively.
I'm okay with that.
Good god, could your desire to see Nodl be a sucess cloud your judgement any more? The guy is a useless stiff who will barely make it as a 4th liner in the NHL if he is lucky. To even think that he is better offensivly then Carcillo, Powe or Asham is a joke. Each of those guys have pretty much either double or tripled their PPG production as compared to him.
Nodl GP G A P PPG
Regular Season
2008-2009 Flyers 38 1 3 4 0.11
2009-2010 Flyers 10 0 1 1 0.10
Playoffs
2009-2010 Flyers 10 0 0 0 0.00
Carcillo GP G A P PPG
Regular Season
2008-2009 Coyotes/Flyers 74 3 11 14 0.19
2009-2010 Flyers 76 12 10 22 0.29
Playoffs
2008-2009 Flyers 5 1 1 2 0.40
2009-2010 Flyers 17 2 4 6 0.35
Asham GP G A P PPG
Regular Season
2008-2009 Flyers 78 8 12 20 0.26
2009-2010 Flyers 72 10 14 24 0.33
Playoffs
2008-2009 Flyers 6 1 1 2 0.33
2009-2010 Flyers 23 4 3 7 0.30
Powe GP G A P PPG
Regular Season
2008-2009 Flyers 60 6 5 11 0.18
2009-2010 Flyers 63 9 6 15 0.24
Playoffs
2008-2009 Flyers 6 1 2 3 0.50
2009-2010 Flyers 23 0 1 1 0.04
During that analysis, you somehow failed to mention that in 08-09, Nodl was on pace to be worse than -30, the next worst on the team was -7.
Awesome? I never said he played spectacularly for a long time. He was good for a while, tapered off a bit, and then started to become a severe liability. That's when he was replaced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
So a slight problem there.
What is? His +/- back then? Because that shows exactly what kind of player he is now right?
Frankly I'm not surprised you don't know all that much about Nodl's development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
Of course, this analysis is coming from the same luminary that insisted "goaltending doesn't matter" for months, so what do I know right? As far as I'm concerned, you have pretty much zero credibility on anything right now until you show differently.
You're right, because I was so wrong when I said that the team matters more than the goaltending. I love how people put words in my mouth saying, "goaltending doesn't matter." Sure, you need a goalie. You can't play the game with six skaters at all times. The reality is though that a vast majority of the members here, yourself included, vehemently overrate the impact of the position, particularly the difference between elite, above-average, and average.
All that happened since people started calling into question my credibility, was that I was proven correct.
I find it funny that you're still questioning my credibility. Who are you to question that? I'm not saying this as a staff member, I'm saying this as a peer on this forum right now. Who are you to call into question my beliefs and my theories and my analysis when my track record so far is probably near spotless on everything various people called into question my credibility on?
