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Pick #119: Tye McGinn, LW, Gatineau (QMJHL)

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Old
06-30-2010, 09:54 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by flyfan795 View Post
Good god, could your desire to see Nodl be a sucess cloud your judgement any more? The guy is a useless stiff who will barely make it as a 4th liner in the NHL if he is lucky. To even think that he is better offensivly then Carcillo, Powe or Asham is a joke. Each of those guys have pretty much either double or tripled their PPG production as compared to him.
And compared to Nodl, how much of an opportunity have these sub-par offensive players gotten with superior linemates? How much of an opportunity has Nodl received since his first stint with the Flyers as a rookie fresh out of college?

You can cite numbers all you want, but unless you put them into perspective they're just meaningless numbers.

Nodl has more offensive talent than any of Powe, Carcillo, or Asham. That is a fact. Nodl is a better passer and has a better shot. He is better with the puck than Powe obviously though not Asham. He also isn't as fast as Powe, but he's making ground defensively. Nodl is also very skilled at boardwork; something he's worked on in particular over the last few years.

I don't know why all this hatred for him.

What everyone loved about Upshall was his forchecking/boardwork/effort. Nodl can do all of that for a third line, even though he doesn't have the same offensive potential as Upshall. Granted, it's not like Upshall was putting up any 20 goal seasons on our third line anyway (though he might if he were with Giroux now).

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06-30-2010, 09:54 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Nodl's future as a 2nd liner will depend solely on his abilities in the offensive zone without the puck. I don't think he will ever reach the 2nd line position except on a team like ours that shuffles around wingers. He will never be a PP guy for a strong team of course, but he has 30-40 point potential; possibly up to 50 in his prime with the right center.

Right now he's a 3rd liner who can chip in marginal offensive (he's better offensively right now than Kalinski, Carcillo, Powe, and maybe Asham), play a heavy forechecking role (which is great for our team), and remain competent defensively.

I'm okay with that.
I am not seeing it honestly. He doesnt have the hands to be a top 9 guy let alone a top 6 guy. I will give you hes on par talentwise with Kalinski. hes better defensively then Asham.
But Powe is a strong PKer on this team and could chip in with some goals every now and then. Carcillo when he has his head on straight has more talent then Nodl.( and I am far from the biggest Carcillo supporter on this board)
Hes a dime a dozen 4th line guy. 30-40 points? not on the Flyers.

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06-30-2010, 10:00 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
I am not seeing it honestly. He doesnt have the hands to be a top 9 guy let alone a top 6 guy. I will give you hes on par talentwise with Kalinski. hes better defensively then Asham.
But Powe is a strong PKer on this team and could chip in with some goals every now and then. Carcillo when he has his head on straight has more talent then Nodl.
Hes a dime a dozen 4th line guy. 30-40 points? maybe in the AHL.
His hands are far and above Powe's.

And I agree Powe is a better, faster PKer now with more energy. That's something Nodl will have to grow into. He may never be as tenacious as Powe, but he's got the ability to be a strong forechecker.

I disagree with Carcillo's talent as well. Even if you want to argue their talent level is similar, Carcillo's a dime-a-dozen 4th line guy.

You know who else is dime-a-dozen? Betts, Laperriere, Asham, Powe, Carcillo, etc.

Nobody wants to hear Laperriere is dime-a-dozen because everyone loves him so much. The truth is that even though Laperriere's drive/effort is certainly awesome, his talent is certainly replaceable.

I can easily say that about Laperriere, who is fairly easily my favorite bottom sixer on the team.

So calling a bottom 6 player dime-a-dozen shouldn't be an argument when by nature, bottom 6 players generally are dime-a-dozen.

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06-30-2010, 10:02 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Awesome? I never said he played spectacularly for a long time. He was good for a while, tapered off a bit, and then started to become a severe liability. That's when he was replaced.
No, he just wasn't ready which was pretty apparent. I mean, I've defended Nodl on here to Jester in particular, but he could not cut it in 08-09 and didn't do anything this year either.

Quote:
What is? His +/- back then? Because that shows exactly what kind of player he is now right?

Frankly I'm not surprised you don't know all that much about Nodl's development.
Out of curiosity, what are your sources for Flyers' prospects development? Do you go to AHL games? Do you sit in the pressbox? Do you go to NHL combines and interview prospects? Do you talk with agents?

I mean, all I see right now is a guy who couldn't hack it in 08-09 and then did well in very limited PO minutes. Have you seen 30-40 Phantoms games that show differently?

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You're right, because I was so wrong when I said that the team matters more than the goaltending. I love how people put words in my mouth saying, "goaltending doesn't matter." Sure, you need a goalie. You can't play the game with six skaters at all times. The reality is though that a vast majority of the members here, yourself included, vehemently overrate the impact of the position, particularly the difference between elite, above-average, and average.

All that happened since people started calling into question my credibility, was that I was proven correct.

I find it funny that you're still questioning my credibility. Who are you to question that? I'm not saying this as a staff member, I'm saying this as a peer on this forum right now. Who are you to call into question my beliefs and my theories and my analysis when my track record so far is probably near spotless on everything various people called into question my credibility on?

Really, what makes you so much better than me?
We just lost the Stanley Cup Finals because a goalie (who you supported) absolutely blew ass, sucked, and lost several games for us singlehandedly, and we "overrate the impact of the position."

So the impact of Leighton blowing the Finals for us is insignificant?

Wow.

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06-30-2010, 10:10 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
We just lost the Stanley Cup Finals because a goalie (who you supported) absolutely blew ass, sucked, and lost several games for us singlehandedly, and we "overrate the impact of the position."

So the impact of Leighton blowing the Finals for us is insignificant?

Wow.
I have been one of Leighton's BIGGEST denouncers since he was acquired off of waivers.

I REMAIN one of Leighton's BIGGEST denouncers to this day.

This is where you get confused. You have this reality of me that isn't correct at all. Just because I say goaltending is overrated does not mean I believe we should for-go talent all together. Yes, there is a tipping point, but you're so blinded by your endeavor to discredit everything I say, that you don't realize that you don't even know what I'm saying.

You assume you know what I'm saying, but you react to things that don't make sense.

Did I ever say you don't need goaltending? No.
Did I ever say it was bad to have talent at the goaltending position? No.
Did I ever say it would be better to seek an above-average starter for cheaper? Yes.

Did I ever say it Nodl would become a 2nd line TWO-way forward? No.
Did I say Nodl would definitely be more than a steady forechecking winger with moderate offensive ability? No.
Did I say Nodl is probably who the Flyers' organization thinks is the closest to ready? Yes.

So again. Tell me which of my statements above is so wrong that you just had to call out my credibility.

You're creating scenarios in your head. You see what you want to see, and you hear what you want to hear.

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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Out of curiosity, what are your sources for Flyers' prospects development? Like insiders? This makes no sense. Maybe you don't understand what it is I do. Are you asking whether I know one of Holmgren's night-time office janitors or some crap? Or maybe if I have a friend working under Holmgren? This question doesn't make sense, and it implies that my information is only relevant if it comes from some spy I have sitting waiting for the Flyers' next move. Honestly, I don't know what you expect journalists to have.
Do you go to AHL games? Rarely. I do watch most when they don't interfere with Flyers' games.
Do you sit in the pressbox? Haven't in Philly yet, but I have in Washington. I just moved home.
Do you go to NHL combines and interview prospects? I do interview prospects obviously. Combines are a bit out of my budget, but I do travel to prospect events if I can or I'm in the area.
Do you talk with agents? What connection should I have with agents? These are prospects. I'm concerned about their development, not their price tag.

I mean, all I see right now is a guy who couldn't hack it in 08-09 and then did well in very limited PO minutes. Have you seen 30-40 Phantoms games that show differently? Yes. While Nodl's offensive game doesn't seem to be taking root in HIS SECOND PROFESSIONAL SEASON, he has gotten much better in other areas. I should note that it's also possibly not all on Nodl. A lot of the Phantoms' offensive totals were down significantly this season due to a number of factors not unlike some of the various factors that resulted in the Flyers' offensive totals being down significantly.


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06-30-2010, 10:16 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I have been one of Leighton's BIGGEST denouncers since he was acquired off of waivers.

I REMAIN one of Leighton's BIGGEST denouncers to this day.


This is where you get confused. You have this reality of me that isn't correct at all. Just because I say goaltending is overrated does not mean I believe we should for-go talent all together. Yes, there is a tipping point, but you're so blinded by your endeavor to discredit everything I say, that you don't realize that you don't even know what I'm saying.

You assume you know what I'm saying, but you react to things that don't make sense.

Did I ever say you don't need goaltending? No.
Did I ever say it was bad to have talent at the goaltending position? No.
Did I ever say it would be better to seek an above-average starter for cheaper? Yes.

Did I ever say it Nodl would become a 2nd line TWO-way forward? No.
Did I say Nodl would definitely be more than a steady forechecking winger with moderate offensive ability? No.
Did I say Nodl is probably who the Flyers' organization thinks is the closest to ready? Yes.

So again. Tell me which of my statements above is so wrong that you just had to call out my credibility.

You're creating scenarios in your head. You see what you want to see, and you hear what you want to hear.
I don't feel like going back through your post history, but that's a patently false statement. I remember you saying many times that the Flyers defense would more than compensate for Leighton's shortcomings and that he would be just fine.

You really are the king of backtracking.

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06-30-2010, 10:17 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Really? Just how sure do you think you are?

You've been wrong on pretty much everything so far, and now you're touting your apparently "professional" opinion as fact. The truth is you what you "know" about the Flyers isn't real knowledge. It's only skin-deep observation and analysis that anyone who can read can create. Unfortunately for you, when that skin-deep analysis steers you in the wrong direction, it's easy for others to tell that you don't know what you're talking about.



No, your opinions aren't worth reading because they aren't backed by anything substantial.



How is it immature to say outright that you're basically making things up as you go along. You're more than welcome to your opinion. I have no problem with opinions. I have problem in the world, however, with people who cite their own opinions as obvious fact as if they are some expert only for their arguments to carry little to no actual value.



No, it doesn't make me right. The fact that I'm willing to do the research, take time to learn things before I make skin-deep appraisals, and back up my claims is what makes me right. I'm not 100%. No one can be, but if I'm going to say something, I'm going to make sure I have something to back up what I'm saying.



Congratulations?



Maybe it's for the best.



Sure I do.



You're a Flyers' fan?



Yep. Friendless.
First off, based on what you've written before I've seen more Flyers and NHL hockey than you. I've seen more drafts and more hyped busts than you. I'm a lifelong Flyers fan...sorry I'm not a ponies and unicorns and sunny day optimist like you seem to be. It's ok to notice flaws in your team.

And as far as making unsubstantiated claims goes...keep in mind that you said the Flyers are one of the best teams at drafting, I called you on it and provided 3 different atricles (full of facts!!) that proved that the Flyers have been mediocre at best at drafting. Then you, like the mindless homer you are, still tried to disprove the numbers with all kinds of nonsensical filibustering. You act like some smug hockey genius which you clearly are not. Just realize your limitations, that's all. You don't always have to be right.

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06-30-2010, 10:20 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I don't feel like going back through your post history, but that's a patently false statement. I remember you saying many times that the Flyers defense would more than compensate for Leighton's shortcomings and that he would be just fine.
And they did, did they not?

How was I proven wrong? Our defense carries a relatively talentless AHL-starter to game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals and suddenly I'm wrong because he let's in a fluke goal in OT of game six?

You're mistaking something for something entirely different. Just because I said our defense have the ability to make up for Leighton's shortcomings, which it did, does not mean Leighton is a viable long-term solution in net.

Is that clear enough for you?

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06-30-2010, 10:25 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You're creating scenarios in your head. You see what you want to see, and you hear what you want to hear.
Oh the irony...

I guess I'm not the only one who sees abolutely nothing in Nodl's game that translates to a top 9 player. It's ok...the AHL is full of guys who put up great numbers in college or the CHL. Some guys just don't have the talent to make an impact in the NHL. Some of us have the ability to recognize it and some are raging homers who think all prospects will make the NHL.

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06-30-2010, 10:25 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
And they did, did they not?

How was I proven wrong? Our defense carries a relatively talentless AHL-starter to game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals and suddenly I'm wrong because he let's in a fluke goal in OT of game six?

You're mistaking something for something entirely different. Just because I said our defense have the ability to make up for Leighton's shortcomings, which it did, does not mean Leighton is a viable long-term solution in net.

Is that clear enough for you?
Because as most of us were saying the entire time, we played a team we own, and then practically the 2 worst offensive teams in the league.

As soon as we played a team with a modicum of offensive talent, Leighton got burned and obviously the Flyers D couldn't come close to carrying him there.

The whole argument is pointless though.

We were right, you were wrong, you refuse to admit you were wrong. I'm sure the same scenario will play out when Nodl busts or Ericsson busts or etc.

End of story.

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06-30-2010, 10:30 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
His hands are far and above Powe's.

And I agree Powe is a better, faster PKer now with more energy. That's something Nodl will have to grow into. He may never be as tenacious as Powe, but he's got the ability to be a strong forechecker.

I disagree with Carcillo's talent as well. Even if you want to argue their talent level is similar, Carcillo's a dime-a-dozen 4th line guy.

You know who else is dime-a-dozen? Betts, Laperriere, Asham, Powe, Carcillo, etc.

Nobody wants to hear Laperriere is dime-a-dozen because everyone loves him so much. The truth is that even though Laperriere's drive/effort is certainly awesome, his talent is certainly replaceable.

I can easily say that about Laperriere, who is fairly easily my favorite bottom sixer on the team.

So calling a bottom 6 player dime-a-dozen shouldn't be an argument when by nature, bottom 6 players generally are dime-a-dozen.
If you think so highly of Nodl then this will be the offseason where the Flyers can look at Nodl to replace Asham on the bottom 6. Asham is gone and there will be a spot open. Lets see if he can take it.
There are things then Laperriere brings to the ice that I dont think Nodl can. Everyone knows his offensive shortcomings. But not everything a hockey player brings shows up on the scoresheet. The guy sacrifices his body every night. You saw this season why if you ask anyone who played with him who was the toughest SOB on your team. who would they say? Lappy. You cannot compare Lappy to any other bottom 6 guy on this team.
Not everyone on the bottom 6 is dime a dozen. Some are for different reasons. like bringing rookies along slowly(JVR), guys getting demoted because they cant play in the top 6(like Hartnell should of been during the regular season)
Back to Nodl, looking back at this past season we had a 4th line of Carcillo/Betts/Laperriere which i think most of us can agree was arguably one of the best and toughest 4th lines to play against in the league. So where does that leave a guy like Nodl if they put that line back together? It will be 3rd line or bust and I am going to go with the latter.

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06-30-2010, 10:34 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Out of curiosity, what are your sources for Flyers' prospects development? Do you go to AHL games? Do you sit in the pressbox? Do you go to NHL combines and interview prospects? Do you talk with agents?

I mean, all I see right now is a guy who couldn't hack it in 08-09 and then did well in very limited PO minutes. Have you seen 30-40 Phantoms games that show differently?
He was completely useless to the Phantoms this season. He was fed a ton of ice time in all situations on the top line and did nothing to help the team.

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06-30-2010, 11:15 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
If you think so highly of Nodl then this will be the offseason where the Flyers can look at Nodl to replace Asham on the bottom 6. Asham is gone and there will be a spot open. Lets see if he can take it.
I agree. I think right now it's a fight between Nodl and Maroon with Legein and Testwuide (depending on how the organization views him having not seen him in their own controlled situation) ready to give it a good run as well.

Having not seen enough of Testwuide, I can honestly say that I don't know what to expect. Legein is an oddity in and of himself. I know a lot of people like him as a possible finisher on the wing, but like most staff members here at HF, a lot of us want him to prove completely that he's committed before we make any lasting decisions on him. One full AHL season under his belt is a step in the right direction, but it's hardly enough just yet given his history. Holmstrom is another one the organization has talked about competing for a bottom six spot, but like Kalinski, I think that's more reserved for fourth line play. We're looking for a competent top NINE winger. That's vastly different from a bottom six forward.


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Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
There are things then Laperriere brings to the ice that I dont think Nodl can.
That's fairly obvious. I don't think Laperriere's experience, fortitude, tenacity, or work ethic can be quantified. I certainly wasn't suggesting that Nodl, or anyone on the team for that matter, is in any position to take Laperriere's spot. Out of the players without offensive talents, he is king. Betts and Powe are probably the closest thing to being able to replace Laperriere, and even they fall short.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
Everyone knows his offensive shortcomings. But not everything a hockey player brings shows up on the scoresheet. The guy sacrifices his body every night. You saw this season why if you ask anyone who played with him who was the toughest SOB on your team. who would they say? Lappy. You cannot compare Lappy to any other bottom 6 guy on this team.
I can compare Lappy to a bottom six player on this team fairly easily. That's what he is. Don't be fooled by what he can do with extremely limited minutes. I worship and respect Lappy as much as the next guy here, but let's not make it seem like the minutes he logs are irreplaceable (though honestly I'd move a ton of other players before I moved him).

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
Not everyone on the bottom 6 is dime a dozen.
The only reason I tend to agree with you is because of what a guy like Laperriere's locker room presence and willingness to do anything to help a team win bring to an organization. Even so, his skill-set is still dime-a-dozen. Lappy gets his own asterisk. He's replaceable, but you wouldn't want to replace him. Betts is fairly close to that level as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
Some are for different reasons. like bringing rookies along slowly(JVR), guys getting demoted because they cant play in the top 6(like Hartnell should of been during the regular season)
Well, I consider the Flyers having a non-traditional top 9, not necessarily a bottom 6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
Back to Nodl, looking back at this past season we had a 4th line of Carcillo/Betts/Laperriere which i think most of us can agree was arguably one of the best and toughest 4th lines to play against in the league.
I agree. I think the dynamic was lesser when Powe-Betts-Laperriere was a line. Carcillo on that line changed it from one of the best shut-down lines in the NHL to a dynamic, in-your-face line as well as a fairly defensively sound grouping.

I don't think Nodl brings what Carcillo does (then again I don't consider Carcillo's skill-set vastly important), and I don't think he can make up for Powe's speed, though his defensive capabilities should be around Powe's shortly, particularly with more experiences. I don't think the drop off would be that significant if Nodl switched places with either of them, but the dynamic of the line would change. I don't think we want to change the dynamic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
So where does that leave a guy like Nodl if they put that line back together? It will be 3rd line or bust and I am going to go with the latter.
I agree. It pretty much is third line or bust. Not because his play on the fourth line would create a terrible drop-off, but because you want to keep that same dynamic as I explained.

As of right now, Nodl's competition for that final top nine winger is Powe, Carcillo, Maroon, Testwuide, and Legein.

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06-15-2012, 12:07 AM
  #114
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anyone manage to get any kind of read on the phantoms anymore? how did he look?

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