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Bob Mckenzie says Ellis goes to UFA

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Old
07-01-2010, 08:48 AM
  #201
E = CH˛
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habspinner View Post
RealKyper

As of this morning Mtl doesn't want to go much more than 1M on a Price back up. That takes Ellis out and puts a Lalime/Hedberg in play


You have to wonder what the point was then in getting Ellis? But as we know things can happen quickly in this business. Maybe Cammy's feeding them information from Frolov - lol!
Someone posted a list of all goaltenders that were back ups last season, and most of them made between 0.5M and 1.3M. There's really no point in paying your back up more than that. It's quite frankly stupid. I hope he's right.


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Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
Dan Ellis for 2M dollars...????? just by looking at it, it sounds reasonable. However, if you look at how much a backup was making last year

numbers from nhlnumbers.com

Anaheim - McElhinney, 0,535M
Atlanta - Hedberg, 1.175M, Pavelec, 0.85M
Boston - Rask, 1M
Buffalo - Lalime, 1M
Carolina - Legace, 0.5M
Chicago - Niemi, 0.827M
Columbus - Garon 1.2M, Mason, 0.905M
Colorado - Budaj, 1.25M
Dallas - Turco, 5.4M
Detriot - 0.75M
Edmonton - Drouin-Deslauriers, 0.7M, Dubnyk, 0.7M
Florida - Clemmensen, 1M
Los Angeles - Ersberg, 0.75M
Minnesota - Harding, 1.1M
Montreal - Halak, 0.775M
Nashville - Ellis, 2M
New Jersey - Danis, 0.5M
New York Islander - Biron, 1.4M
NEw York Rangers - Auld, 1M, Valiquette,0.725M
Ottawa - Elliott, 0.8M
Philly - Boucher, 0.925M
Phoenix - Labarbera, 1M
Pittsburgh - Johnson - 0.6M
San Jose - Greiss, 0.55M
St Louis - Conklin, 1.2M
Tampa Bay - Niittymaki, 0.6M
Toronto - Gustavsson, 1.35M
Vancouver - Schneider, 0.9M
Washington - Varlamov, 0.85M

With exception to Turco and Ellis, who are signed to No.1 goalie contract and played as a backup, it is safe to say a backup goalie in NHL make around 1M per year.

So unless a team think Ellis is their number 1 goalie, he'll be offered around 1M as backup around the league.

What team(s) may sign Ellis as their number 1 goalie?

Anaheim - Hiller at 4.5M -> NO
Atlanta - Pavelec at 0.85M -> YES
Boston - Tim Thomas at 6M and Rask.. -> NO
Buffalo - Miller -> NO
Carolina - Ward at 6M -> NO
Calgary - Kiprusoff at 7M -> NO
Chicago - Huet, Niemi with cap issue -> NO
Columbus - Mason -> YES
Colorado - Anderson -> Maybe
Dallas - Lethonen -> NO
Detriot - Osgood and Howard locked up -> NO
Edmonton - Khabibulin -> NO
Florida - Vokoun -> NO
LA - Quick at 1.8M -> Maybe
Minnesota - Backstrom at 6M -> NO
Montreal - Price -> NO
Nashville - NO
New Jersey - Brodeur -> NO
NYI - DiPietro -> NO
NYR - Lundqvist -> NO
Ottawa - Leclaire, Elliott -> Maybe
Philly - with 3 goalies locked up -> a big Maybe
Phoenix - Bryzgalov -> NO
Pittsburg - Fluery -> NO
San Jose -> YES
St Louis - Halak -> NO
Tampa Bay -> Smith -> YES
Toronto - Giguere at 7M -> NO (Jesus.. I didn't know Burke picked up this 7M contract!)
Vancouver - Luongo -> NO
Washington - Varlamov -> YES

Therefore: Atlanta, Columbus, Colorado, LA, Ottawa, Philly, San Jose, Tampa and Washington may look for Ellis as No. 1

Among these teams, I can see only Atlanta, Columbus, Colorado and Tampa will budget 2M to sign Ellis as number 1.

I would say the chance for us signing Ellis at around 1M is pretty good.
And here's the post for those that missed it.

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Old
07-01-2010, 08:56 AM
  #202
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I doubt they would get Biron for $1M or less. More likely Hedberg, Lalime or Danis.

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07-01-2010, 08:58 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Max Levine View Post
I doubt they would get Biron for $1M or less. More likely Hedberg, Lalime or Danis.
If it comes to that, I REALLY hope it will be Hedberg. I don't want anything to do with Lalime or Danis...

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07-01-2010, 09:01 AM
  #204
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Ellis will be on the Team 990 in 5 minutes at 10:05

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07-01-2010, 09:12 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Max Levine View Post
I doubt they would get Biron for $1M or less. More likely Hedberg, Lalime or Danis.
Biron wont ask for more than 1.5 million.
SO I think anything is possible with him.

If 2 mill is what Ellis wanted to get... 1.5-2 mill is reasonable for Biron.

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07-01-2010, 09:12 AM
  #206
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When you think about that, it makes too much sense that Ellis will sign in either San Jose or Philly.

He would play for an elite team, has the chance to be the starter (at worst he would split games) and he would likely get some more money than Montreal.

What would you do?

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07-01-2010, 09:18 AM
  #207
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if i was ellis...after that talk with marinaro i'm not signing here just to avoid marinaro...what a ******...

it's like he was trying to convince him to sign here saying stupidities and making him uncomfortable

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07-01-2010, 09:21 AM
  #208
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I'd rather not have Ellis at 2 mil. A goalie who will only play 25-30 games eating up that kind of cap space is not smart IMO. I'd focus on signing Dustin Boyd and then go after a cheaper backup goalie like Biron or Hedberg.

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07-01-2010, 09:22 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by E = CH˛ View Post
Someone posted a list of all goaltenders that were back ups last season, and most of them made between 0.5M and 1.3M. There's really no point in paying your back up more than that. It's quite frankly stupid. I hope he's right.
A back up is not a back up Jersey style. Anybody who thinks Price will end up playing 60+ is wrong. Then it leaves at least 20 freakin games to your "backup". That's 40 points. Does your "backup" then needs to be somewhat good?

Are we a team that have also a great depth on goalie in Hamilton.

Price isn't Miller, Brodeur, Luongo, Lundqvist or whatever. We still have NO IDEA who this year will play out for him. No idea. Yet, we want to go with Hedberg? The key is to be under 1M$ instead of being sure we'd get a good goalie?

Makes no sense to me.

Can't wait for people that were excited by the trade to finally come with the "Well, it doesn't matter we didn't keep those guys....at least we got rid of Sergei".

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07-01-2010, 09:23 AM
  #210
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Marinaro says from what he's hearing, the offer just wasn't very good to Ellis.

Thank god, I was thinking PG would go ahead and overpay the crap out of his back up. Which would be dumb as hell. We've already got a bunch of bad contracts like Spacek, Hamrlik, Gomez, Laraque's buy out cost, AK. We really don't need to pile on that by adding a back up at 2M that can't be a starter. 1.3M is the most I would pay for a back up, and I'd prefer the least amount possible. I'd also prefer to see Price play 70 games this year with no goalie controversy. They picked Price so we have to assume they think he's ready to be a starter. One of the reason behind that choice was the fact Price was big and capable of playing a lot of games so...

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07-01-2010, 09:23 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by ScopeHockey View Post
I'd rather not have Ellis at 2 mil. A goalie who will only play 25-30 games eating up that kind of cap space is not smart IMO. I'd focus on signing Dustin Boyd and then go after a cheaper backup goalie like Biron or Hedberg.
Yeah...just 25-30 games, just 50-60 points....who needs those points really when you are actually making the playoffs often by 1 or 2 points....

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07-01-2010, 09:25 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
A back up is not a back up Jersey style. Anybody who thinks Price will end up playing 60+ is wrong. Then it leaves at least 20 freakin games to your "backup". That's 40 points. Does your "backup" then needs to be somewhat good?

Are we a team that have also a great depth on goalie in Hamilton.

Price isn't Miller, Brodeur, Luongo, Lundqvist or whatever. We still have NO IDEA who this year will play out for him. No idea. Yet, we want to go with Hedberg? The key is to be under 1M$ instead of being sure we'd get a good goalie?

Makes no sense to me.

Can't wait for people that were excited by the trade to finally come with the "Well, it doesn't matter we didn't keep those guys....at least we got rid of Sergei".
Well, it doesn't matter we didn't keep those guys....at least we got rid of Sergei!

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07-01-2010, 09:27 AM
  #213
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Well, it doesn't matter we didn't keep those guys....at least we got rid of Sergei!
Thanks. At least I didn't have to wait too much to read it....

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07-01-2010, 09:28 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
A back up is not a back up Jersey style. Anybody who thinks Price will end up playing 60+ is wrong. Then it leaves at least 20 freakin games to your "backup". That's 40 points. Does your "backup" then needs to be somewhat good?

Are we a team that have also a great depth on goalie in Hamilton.

Price isn't Miller, Brodeur, Luongo, Lundqvist or whatever. We still have NO IDEA who this year will play out for him. No idea. Yet, we want to go with Hedberg? The key is to be under 1M$ instead of being sure we'd get a good goalie?

Makes no sense to me.

Can't wait for people that were excited by the trade to finally come with the "Well, it doesn't matter we didn't keep those guys....at least we got rid of Sergei".
It's called "addition by subtraction"....if Nashville signs him...we get compensated....so I am happy with that....regardless of whether we sign Ellis or Boyd....we are so much better off without having that little pain in the a.. on our team....

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07-01-2010, 09:28 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yeah...just 25-30 games, just 50-60 points....who needs those points really when you are actually making the playoffs often by 1 or 2 points....
So now we are relying on our back-up goalie to make the playoffs?

Habs really are screwed it seems.

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07-01-2010, 09:31 AM
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So now we are relying on our back-up goalie to make the playoffs?

Habs really are screwed it seems.
Every team that doesn't have a superstar in net relies, also, on the quality of their 2nd goalie.

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07-01-2010, 09:32 AM
  #217
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Every team that doesn't have a superstar in net relies, also, on the quality of their 2nd goalie.
Ya those teams also suck.

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07-01-2010, 09:34 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
A back up is not a back up Jersey style. Anybody who thinks Price will end up playing 60+ is wrong. Then it leaves at least 20 freakin games to your "backup". That's 40 points. Does your "backup" then needs to be somewhat good?

Are we a team that have also a great depth on goalie in Hamilton.

Price isn't Miller, Brodeur, Luongo, Lundqvist or whatever. We still have NO IDEA who this year will play out for him. No idea. Yet, we want to go with Hedberg? The key is to be under 1M$ instead of being sure we'd get a good goalie?

Makes no sense to me.

Can't wait for people that were excited by the trade to finally come with the "Well, it doesn't matter we didn't keep those guys....at least we got rid of Sergei".
I can't believe that the habs management thinks that way. You can think that way, maybe I think that way, but it would make no sense at all for PG to trade Halak and go with Price if he didn't think Price could be #1 this season and play at least 60-65 games. It would make no sense to go with Price knowing he'd have to overpay a back up when we could have filed for arbitration with Halak.

And yes, 1M in the grand scheme of things is not a big deal. But add up all those little millions. The Laraque buy out, Hamrlik's contract, Spacek's contract, Gomez's contract and now a 2M back up instead of a 1M back up, and you end up with a pretty good upgrade somewhere. So all those little 1M overpayment, they do matter.

I just don't think the habs would have decided to trade Halak and go with Price if they saw Price as a giant unknown who wasn't ready to be #1 and who needed a 2M back up.

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07-01-2010, 09:34 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yeah...just 25-30 games, just 50-60 points....who needs those points really when you are actually making the playoffs often by 1 or 2 points....
Fair enough. I'd just think goalies are risky.....outside of the established #1 goalies, it's pretty unpredictable as to who will have a good season and who won't. I'd rather not risk that kind of money on a goalie who I think is a little overrated.

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07-01-2010, 09:35 AM
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It's called "addition by subtraction"....if Nashville signs him...we get compensated....so I am happy with that....regardless of whether we sign Ellis or Boyd....we are so much better off without having that little pain in the a.. on our team....
Don't worry. In Habs world, I know what addition by substraction means. Too many times we got rid of guys without getting anything significant in return and decided to use that phrase to reassure ourselves. In Kosty case, well yes it could not have gone back.

The funny part that I'm seeing right now is how "excited" people were in getting Ellis and Boyd, almost calling it the trade of the year and now as the hours pass by, you start to see how Ellis was not what we need.....that we don't need Boyd really and then suddenly this great transaction that saw us acquired 2 assets are suddenly.....addition by substraction.

I keep hearing how this habs board is never satisfied with any movement the Habs are making and that it's only in the Habs board and such....well another trait this habs board is, is that we're able to go from "great trade" to "who cares" in 24 hours. That's also what this board is all about. At least it's entertaining.

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07-01-2010, 09:37 AM
  #221
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Ya those teams also suck.
The SCC and the SCF say Hi!

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07-01-2010, 09:38 AM
  #222
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Ellis said he was looking for 4M$/2 years. His last contract wasn't even that good while he was the no.1 goalie there. Montreal needs to spend 1.5M$ on the no.2 goaltender. Biron got 1.4M$ last year after he figured out there were many goaltenders available on the market. The same will happen this season. I am happy that Gauthier didn't gavec him so much money. We need those $ to spend on either a quality 3rd line centerman like Bélanger or Moore or, on a winger like Torres if he is willing to be paid for what he is worth (2-2.5M$).

I would try to bring Torres and Biron personnaly... or Chris Mason.

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07-01-2010, 09:39 AM
  #223
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The SCC and the SCF say Hi!
They didn't rely on their goalies...

In fact they are the reason as to why teams don't want to overpay goalies... especially a back-up.

So um hi?

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07-01-2010, 09:43 AM
  #224
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Ya those teams also suck.
Depending of your meaning of suck. Don't look but Niemi played 39 games and Huet played 48 games in the regular season. Ottawa did finish 5th with Elliot playing 55 games. Philly finished ahead of us with those goalies.

Don't say it's the case for the Habs, but not sure what's the point of relying solely on 1 goalie....if that goalies ends up struggling.

Surley the idea is to get one day 1 great goalie. I'm just saying that right now, we don't know how this will turn out. We are talking about Montreal here. The place that loves to kill their goalies and once they're dead, ressuscitate them to kill them again. We are talking about a kid who almost began to be enemy #1, being booed when he was the 3rd star. Replacing the hometown hero, a guy that I've rarely see the kind of love we have for a player. A guy who just with his play, is still struggling, because he's young, with ups and downs etc.....And people don't see the need for a strong backup?

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07-01-2010, 09:44 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Don't worry. In Habs world, I know what addition by substraction means. Too many times we got rid of guys without getting anything significant in return and decided to use that phrase to reassure ourselves. In Kosty case, well yes it could not have gone back.

The funny part that I'm seeing right now is how "excited" people were in getting Ellis and Boyd, almost calling it the trade of the year and now as the hours pass by, you start to see how Ellis was not what we need.....that we don't need Boyd really and then suddenly this great transaction that saw us acquired 2 assets are suddenly.....addition by substraction.

I keep hearing how this habs board is never satisfied with any movement the Habs are making and that it's only in the Habs board and such....well another trait this habs board is, is that we're able to go from "great trade" to "who cares" in 24 hours. That's also what this board is all about. At least it's entertaining.
We gave SK away.

And I don't have a problem with it in a nutshell. Because that's what it had come down to.

But if you take a step back and look at the whole SK saga, you come up with two possible conclusions :

1. We didn't work with him to get the most out of him.

And/or

2. We didn't assess him properly and ended up with our hands tied forced to trade him when his value was at its lowest.

It's possible that SK is a real headcase and there was nothing to be done with him in Montreal, that there's no way it could have worked because of the baggage he carried and what not. But the real problem is that we didn't recognize this sooner and dealt him for equivalent value. If the player is a problem, deal him before it gets to the point where he has no value anymore, or work with him to make those problems go away.

Habs failed somewhere with SK. I can't tell you where, but every time you deal a player of SK's potential and caliber for nothing, it's a failure. A big giant fail boat.

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