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Hasek or Roy? (Part 2)

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Old
03-24-2005, 10:15 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRL
i love how when anyone makes a note of roy's trophies you say "big deal", funny thing is that is what most people say when you say 6 vezinas are more impressive than 3 conn smythes.

comparing backups is a cop out, u never seem to counter people points with rational responses, sad really.

roy was older than hasek when he won the jennings, stop using age an excuse for hasek drop in play when he is in fact older than roy by only a few months.

yes you bring up roy 2 blowouts to detriot over and over again, i am sure there have been games where hasek let in 6 or more goals, actually i'd be willing to bet that as well.

as for you being thankful for roy being traded that jus shows your bias and hatred towards the man, because you would rather not have a winning team as opposed to what roy brings to the table.

btw did u say hasek had better playoff numbers hahahahhah!!! i guess wins dont count do they lol.

as for the trophy count(and correct me if i make a mistake as i am not researching this jus doing it off the top off my head) lets do some math:

roy: 5 jennings, 3 smythes, 3 vezinas, 4 cups,

haske: 6 vezinas, 2 jennings, 2 harts, 1 gold medal, 1 cup,

looks like roy has more trophies to me hmmm....
Cups arent trophies so take them out. By my count its the same number of trophies eh? Thats incredible seeing as he played in half as many games and seasons as Roy yet he still has the same number of trophies. AND No I aint comparing backups I'm just saying that the Jennings trophy is a result of BOTH or all 3 goalies who played allowed the fewest goals, not just one goalie.

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Old
03-24-2005, 10:22 PM
  #127
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cups arent trophies, what? what are they than, i believe when a team wins the cup each player gets mini version jus like they do when they win the hart etc. another cop out, jus stop manipulating the stats for yours and haseks benefit.

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Old
03-24-2005, 10:23 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRL
cups arent trophies, what? what are they than, i believe when a team wins the cup each player gets mini version jus like they do when they win the hart etc. another cop out, jus stop manipulating the stats for yours and haseks benefit.
Look cups arent PERSONAL ACCOMPLISHMENTS they are a team effort. Do you understand english or what?

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03-24-2005, 10:25 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Cups arent trophies so take them out. By my count its the same number of trophies eh? Thats incredible seeing as he played in half as many games and seasons as Roy yet he still has the same number of trophies. AND No I aint comparing backups I'm just saying that the Jennings trophy is a result of BOTH or all 3 goalies who played allowed the fewest goals, not just one goalie.
actually if you take out the team won awards roy still has more awards so there goes one of your false statements.

so now i can say this:

roy has more wins, more cups, more shutouts, more trophies, what does hasek have again?

btw when hasek won one his jennings his co starter was fuhr, and steve shields aint no second rate backup, i believe he actually won a series for that so called crappy buffalo team right?!

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Old
03-24-2005, 10:27 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Look cups arent PERSONAL ACCOMPLISHMENTS they are a team effort. Do you understand english or what?
do i understand, do you? the stanley cup trophy is a friggin trophy,
D-O Y-O-U U-N-D-E-R-S-T-A-N-D E-N-G-L-I-S-H?

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Old
03-24-2005, 10:28 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRL
actually if you take out the team won awards roy still has more awards so there goes one of your false statements.

so now i can say this:

roy has more wins, more cups, more shutouts, more trophies, what does hasek have again?

btw when hasek won one his jennings his co starter was fuhr, and steve shields aint no second rate backup, i believe he actually won a series for that so called crappy buffalo team right?!
Wins, cups are a team efffoort. Wow he's got more Shutouts.. like how many more? 2? LOL In 500 more games!! What's his highest shutout number in one season? 6? What about Hasek? 13!!! 6 Vezinas to Roy's 3. Better GAA and save percentage. Not to mention he's been on worse teams then Roy.

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Old
03-24-2005, 10:30 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRL
do i understand, do you? the stanley cup trophy is a friggin trophy,
D-O Y-O-U U-N-D-E-R-S-T-A-N-D E-N-G-L-I-S-H?
Its not a personal accomplishment its a team effort. If cups meant everything then I guess Richard who has 11 cups to Gretzky's 4 was almost 3 times the player gretz was?

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03-24-2005, 10:32 PM
  #133
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hey if wins by your account are a team stat than so is gaa, unless the backup has a much worse gaa,

marc denis had the highest sv %that means he must ve been the best goalie right/

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Old
03-24-2005, 10:52 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Hasek's backups werent as good as Roy's which is why he didnt win as many jennings trophies which is like more of a goalie duo stat then a specific goalie stat.
When Roy won his backups were Brian Hayward, Andre "Red light" Racicot, Rollie Melanson, and David Aebischer. They arn't any better than Fuhr, Puppa, Shields, Biron, Roloson, Legace. In fact, Hasek has had much better backups.

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Old
03-24-2005, 10:59 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire11
When Roy won his backups were Brian Hayward, Andre "Red light" Racicot, Rollie Melanson, and David Aebischer. They arn't any better than Fuhr, Puppa, Shields, Biron, Roloson, Legace. In fact, Hasek has had much better backups.

Oh yeah well let's see...

Here are the backups of both goalies the years they won the jennings trophy.

86-87:
Roy: 46 games: 2.93
Hayward: 37 games: 2.81

87-88:
Hayward: 39 games 2.86
Roy: 45 games 2.90

88-89:
Roy: 48 games 2.41
Hayward: 26 games 2.90

91-92:
Roy: 67 games 2.36
Melanson: 9 games 2.68
Racicot: 9 games 3.17

2001-2002:
Aebisher: 21 games 1.88
Roy: 63 games 1.94

See on 4 of those 6 William M Jennings trophies, Roy's backup had better GAA!!!

Now let's see Hasek.



00-01:
Biron: 2.55
Hasek: 2.11


93-94:

Hasek: 58 games 1.95 GAA
Fuhr: 32 games 3.68 GAA

Surprise surprise FUHR actually SUCKED compared to Hasek! Biron was much worse then Hasek as well. So that means Hasek actually single handedly won all his Jennings while Roy only won 2 singlehandedly out of the 6. I guess we're even now? Oh and Hasek does have more trophies because he won 2 Lester B Pearson trophies as well.


Last edited by KOVALEV10: 03-24-2005 at 11:04 PM.
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Old
03-24-2005, 11:28 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Oh yeah well let's see...

Here are the backups of both goalies the years they won the jennings trophy.

86-87:
Roy: 46 games: 2.93
Hayward: 37 games: 2.81

87-88:
Hayward: 39 games 2.86
Roy: 45 games 2.90

88-89:
Roy: 48 games 2.41
Hayward: 26 games 2.90

91-92:
Roy: 67 games 2.36
Melanson: 9 games 2.68
Racicot: 9 games 3.17

2001-2002:
Aebisher: 21 games 1.88
Roy: 63 games 1.94

See on 4 of those 6 William M Jennings trophies, Roy's backup had better GAA!!!

Now let's see Hasek.

00-01:
Biron: 2.55
Hasek: 2.11


93-94:

Hasek: 58 games 1.95 GAA
Fuhr: 32 games 3.68 GAA

Surprise surprise FUHR actually SUCKED compared to Hasek! Biron was much worse then Hasek as well. So that means Hasek actually single handedly won all his Jennings while Roy only won 2 singlehandedly out of the 6. I guess we're even now? Oh and Hasek does have more trophies because he won 2 Lester B Pearson trophies as well.
have to give you that one

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Old
03-25-2005, 12:06 AM
  #137
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Another thing that makes Hasek better is the fact that on every single team he was clearly the better goalie then his backups. To prove my point check this out.

Patrick Roy
85-86
Roy: 47 games 3.35
Stoaert: 23 games 2.77
Penney:18 games 4.36

86-87:
Roy: 46 games: 2.93
Hayward: 37 games: 2.81

87-88:
Roy: 45 games 2.90
Hayward: 39 games 2.86

88-89:
Roy: 48 games 2.41
Hayward: 26 games 2.90

89-90:

Roy: 54 games 2.53
Hayward: 29 games 3.37

90-91:
Roy: 48 games 2.71
Racicot: 21 games 2.20

91-92:
Roy: 67 games 2.36
Melanson: 9 games 2.68
Racicot: 9 games 3.17

92-93:
Roy: 62 games 3.20
Racicot: 26 games 3.39

93-94:
Roy: 68 games 2.50
Kuntar: 6 games 3.18
Tugnutt:8 games 3.81
Racicot: 11 games, 4.44


94-95:
Roy: 43 games: 2.97
Tugnutt: 7 games 3.12

95-96:
Roy: 22 games 2.95
Thibault: 40 games 2.83
Jablonski: 23 games 2.94


95-96: (2)
Roy: 39 games, 2.68
Fiset: 37 games 2.93

96-97:
Roy: 62 games 2.32
Billington: 23 games 2.65


97-98:
Roy: 65 games 2.39
Billington: 23 games 2.32

98-99:
Roy: 61 games 2.29
Billington: 2.87


99-00:
Roy: 63 games 2.28
Denis: 23 games 2.54


00-01:
Roy: 62 games 2.21
Aebisher: 26 games 2.24

01-02:
Roy: 63 games, 1.94
Aebisher: 21 games, 1.88

02-03:
Roy: 63 games 2.18
Aebisher: 22 games 2.43

Looks like Roy's backup/backups had better stats then him in 7 out of his 18 career seasons!! And the differences are slim they're pretty huge.

Now let's see Hasek.

Dominik Hasek

91-92:
Hasek: 20 games 2.60
Belfour: 52 games 2.70
Waite: 17 games 3.69

92-93:
Hasek: 28 games, 3.15
Fuhr: 29 games, 3.47
Puppa: 24 games 3.58
Draper: 11 games, 3.70

93-94:
Hasek: 58 games 109 goals 1.95
Fuhr: 32 games, 106 goals 3.68 GAA

94-95:

Hasek: 41 games, 85 goals, 2.11
Stauber: 6 games, 20 goals, 3.79
Fuhr: 3 games, 12 goals, 4.00

95-96:
Hasek: 59 games 2.83
Trefilov: 22 games 3.51

96-97:
Hasek: 67 games, 153 goals, 2.27
Shields: 13 games, 39 goals, 2.97
Trefilov: 3 games, 10 goals, 3.77

97-98:
Hasek: 72 games, 147, 2.09
Shields: 16 games, 37 goals, 2.83

98-99:
Hasek: 64 games, 119 goals, 1.87
Biron: 6 games, 10 goals, 2.14
Roloson: 18 games, 42 goals, 2.77

99-00:
Hasek: 35 games, 2.21
Biron: 41 games, 2.42
Roloson: 14 games, 2.84

00-01:
Hasek: 67 games 2.11
Biron: 18 games 2.55

01-02:
Hasek: 65 games 2.17
Legace: 20 games 2.42


Hasek was clearly the best goalie on his team 11 out of 11 seasons!!! And the difference between him and his backup/backups numbers sometimes are huge which means that his success wasnt because of his defense, rather because of him. Roy wasnt the best goalie on 7 out of the 18 times! A little something I just happened to realise.

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Old
03-25-2005, 12:21 AM
  #138
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look if you are so desperate for hasek to win this thread then just change the title to who was the best goalie in any given year or over a 5 year period etc.

the bottom line is roy's career is much better(it's not his fault hasek only played 11 years) whether you want to admit or not.

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Old
03-25-2005, 12:36 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRL
look if you are so desperate for hasek to win this thread then just change the title to who was the best goalie in any given year or over a 5 year period etc.

the bottom line is roy's career is much better(it's not his fault hasek only played 11 years) whether you want to admit or not.
You know its not Hasek's fault he played 11 seasons.... God that stat alone shows that Hasek was the best goalie on his team by far every single year whereas Roy only was the best in 11 of his 18 seasons which is 61 percent of his career.

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03-25-2005, 05:41 AM
  #140
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Anyone who thinks Roy was clearly the better goaltender or Hasek was clearly better... is looking through tinted lenses.

And I'd say Fuhr's career more parallel's Roy's: long, successful and on stacked teams.
Parent's parallel's Hasek's: shorter but phenomenal

Ranking-wise: Hasek/Roy over Parent/Fuhr

Anything more definite is open to reasonable disagreement.

Guys who try to say Roy was definitely better than Hasek are as irksome as Lemieux fans who say Mario was definitely better than Gretzky.

There's something disrespectful and plain wrong about it.

IMHO.

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Old
03-25-2005, 10:23 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRL
look if you are so desperate for hasek to win this thread then just change the title to who was the best goalie in any given year or over a 5 year period etc.

the bottom line is roy's career is much better(it's not his fault hasek only played 11 years) whether you want to admit or not.
The fact remains though... when Hasek was in the NHL, he smoked Roy.
I guess your argument is that Gordie Howe and Mark Messier are the best forwards ever because they played the most games ever over decades.

KOVALEV10, the winning percentages between them and their backups is also strikingly different. Roy's teams could have survived without him, Buffalo couldn't have survived without Hasek.

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Old
03-25-2005, 11:10 PM
  #142
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Well, considering Sawchuk was better than EITHER of them.....

Don't forget, Patty Roy LOST more Game 7's than any goalie in history! So much for the theory of playing under pressure....

I would agree Roy had the SLIGHTLY better career, but that's only because he got to play a few more years than Hasek. Had Dom been allowed to play when he was 20, like Roy, instead of starting at 25 as Belfour's backup (?), he would hold all the records Roy does. As it is, he was the only reason Buffalo was even in the hunt for the playoffs for 7 years. Switch the 2 around and see what happens: Roy wins (maybe) one Cup...with Detroit. Hasek wins 4 Cups and 5 Conn Smythes with the Habs and Colorado. IMO, that is.

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Old
03-29-2005, 09:20 AM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach Boy
Because for a long time Hasek was on a bad team in Buffalo he had no chance of winning the cup, so he was forced to play extremely well during regular season and have amazing stats.
Well, they did make it to the Final in '99. Although the Sabres lost to a better team (without any mention of the possibilities if Brett Hull's toe-in-the-crease had been ruled "No Goal"), it should be noted that they had, at least, some chance of winning the Cup.

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