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Holmgren has sent this organization spiraling downward

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Old
07-01-2010, 11:03 PM
  #51
Amateur Hour
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http://www.csnphilly.com/07/01/10/Pa...589&feedID=704

Quote:
“Right now it’s not high on our priority list,” Holmgren said of upgrading his goaltending. “I said at the end of the year, I think Michael had a strong year for us regardless of what happened in the Final or even the last game …

“I think Brian Boucher played very well. He had a tough year with injuries and being behind Ray [Emery] and not getting the opportunity to [play]. He bounced back and won a big playoff series for us.

“We’re comfortable. Does that mean we won’t look around, keep our ear to the ground and see if there’s something there that makes us better? We’ll certainly continue to do that. If the season started tomorrow, I’d certainly feel comfortable with our goaltending setup right now.”

Homer actually believes what he's saying. ****. That entire article makes me want to cry. I especially love the part about Turco "genuinely" wanting to sign here, yet Homer seemingly refusing to offer him more than $2M per season. So, a proven NHL starting goalie isn't worth more than $2M per season, yet a flash-in-the-pan journeyman minor league goalie who gave up some of the worst goals in hockey history in the Stanley Cup Finals is worth $1.55M per season and, quite possibly, the starter's role? Why -- how -- does this make sense to Paul Holmgren? I don't even have the words to describe how upset I am by all this. It's only going to be worse once we unload one of our pricey forwards merely for cap relief -- cap relief that wouldn't have been needed had we not signed Michael Leighton for $1.55M, Jody Shelley for $1.1M, and Sean O'Donnell for $1M. That's $3.65M of cap space pissed away, and only one of those players (Leighton) serves a real purpose.

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Old
07-01-2010, 11:07 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
http://www.csnphilly.com/07/01/10/Pa...589&feedID=704




Homer actually believes what he's saying. ****. That entire article makes me want to cry. I especially love the part about Turco "genuinely" wanting to sign here, yet Homer seemingly refusing to offer him more than $2M per season. So, a proven NHL starting goalie isn't worth more than $2M per season, yet a flash-in-the-pan journeyman minor league goalie who gave up some of the worst goals in hockey history in the Stanley Cup Finals is worth $1.55M per season and, quite possibly, the starter's role? Why -- how -- does this make sense to Paul Holmgren? I don't even have the words to describe how upset I am by all this. It's only going to be worse once we unload one of our pricey forwards merely for cap relief -- cap relief that wouldn't have been needed had we not signed Michael Leighton for $1.55M, Jody Shelley for $1.1M, and Sean O'Donnell for $1M. That's $3.65M of cap space pissed away, and only one of those players (Leighton) serves a real purpose.
Like I said on the previous page, with that 3.65M, we could have signed Mason, Carcillo and Powe. It would have all come out to the same number, so either way we would have to unload one of our pricey forwards!

I dont like how we got here, but we would be here either way.

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07-01-2010, 11:11 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Flyersguru View Post
Again, another over-reacting thread.

We are 1 DAY into free agency.

We are NOT done.

This team is better today then yesterday, that is fact.

No, it isn't. Not when Michael Leighton is still our number 1. Until that changes, we haven't improved.

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Old
07-01-2010, 11:14 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
It's true...and why have talent when you can have Jody Shelley for $1.1M?
after all Jody Shelley is a 3rd line winger. Just ask Paul Holmgren our mighty savior who almost brought us to the promised land this season.
HOW DARE WE QUESTION HIS ALMIGHTY JUDGEMENTS!!!!!!

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07-01-2010, 11:16 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Like I said on the previous page, with that 3.65M, we could have signed Mason, Carcillo and Powe. It would have all come out to the same number, so either way we would have to unload one of our pricey forwards!

I dont like how we got here, but we would be here either way.
Mason,Carcillo,Powe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Leighton,Shelley, O'Donnell

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Old
07-01-2010, 11:17 PM
  #56
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Out Gm'd?

Meltzer's write up doesn't exactly praise Holmgren's moves today....I do agree the rivals got better. I would definitely have preferred A train over Mez..

Quote:
Paul Holmgren's efforts to get a jump on the Flyers' rival teams may have backfired. While Andrej Meszaros is just 24 years old and it is not tough to imagine him regaining the form he displayed in Ottawa, Anton Volchenkov's physical style and shot-blocking prowess were more in line with what the Flyers needed to strengthen the club's ability to protect leads. If the reported cap numbers are correct, Volchenkov's cap hit will be $4.25 million. Meszaros carries a $4 million price tag.

In addition, the Devils were able to sign Henrik Tallinder. While neither Volchenkov nor Tallinder will replace the offensive skills of the departed Paul Martin, the already defensively stingy Devils are likely to allow even fewer goals next season. Meanwhile, the addition of the ancient Sean O'Donnell to the Flyers' blueline adds some veteran leadership, toughness and physical play -- rounding out a formidable starting six -- but it's hard to argue that the Flyers helped themselves as much as the Devils or Pittsburgh Penguins.

Unable to re-sign Sergei Gonchar or convince Dan Hamhuis to sign, Pittsburgh general manager landed both Martin and up-and-coming defensive defenseman Zbynek Michalek, who brings many of the same elements as Volchenkov. Pittsburgh will still feel the loss of Gonchar, but have assembled a mighty good starting six in their own right.

****

Barring a subsequent move, Holmgren's preemptive decision to resign Michael Leighton at $1.55 million yesterday is also not looking very good right now. Not when Dan Ellis signed today with Tampa Bay at the same money and Chris Mason inked a two-year deal with Atlanta for yearly salaries of $1.6 and $2.1 million.


*****

Lastly, I am somewhat mystified by the Flyers decision to sign 34-year-old enforcer Jody Shelley to a 3-year contract worth $1.1 million per season. While he is a good heavyweight who is a better fighter (and bigger) than Riley Cote -- and a response to the Rangers' addition of Derek Boogaard -- that's an awful lot to spend on a player who figures to be a healthy scratch come playoff time.


Continue:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...etter/45/29151

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Old
07-01-2010, 11:22 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Like I said on the previous page, with that 3.65M, we could have signed Mason, Carcillo and Powe. It would have all come out to the same number, so either way we would have to unload one of our pricey forwards!

I dont like how we got here, but we would be here either way.
No, we wouldn't have to unload ****ing ANYONE. OUR HOLES WOULD BE FILLED. We wouldn't be hoping against hope that Leighton wouldn't be our starter, and we'd be looking forward to a week from now to see what cheap depth guys wanted to sign before teams started forgetting about them.

We'd be at the same number, but we wouldn't have any issues. That Jody ****ING Shelley is taking any sort of shift for this team is extremely upsetting, but if it becomes a regular thing it's even worse. That we got Andrej Meszaros because Holmgren insists it's really easy to be the Next Detroit is extremely upsetting, and only gets worse by him actually believing that ********.

Paul Holmgren is a ****ing dumbass. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it anymore. Anyone who has been defending him recently is either seriously impaired or one of those DNRs (dumb non-retards) who deserve to be skimmed from the gene pool so as to save the rest of us swimming in it from getting **** all over us with each additional lap.

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Old
07-01-2010, 11:23 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
Mason,Carcillo,Powe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Leighton,Shelley, O'Donnell
God! You dont think I realize that? I'm saying that no matter which trio we have, we still need to shed a pricey forward at the end.

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07-01-2010, 11:24 PM
  #59
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There is definitely some overracting going on here. where is a picture of Andy Bernard punching through a wall when you need one? It isn't Oct yet guys. Give the dude some time to keep tweaking. aside from Shelly nothing else that has happened is the end of the world.That article tells me he is still looking. Remember a few weeks ago when he said we didn't need an new D? Where are Krajeck and Parent? Stealing Pittsburgs 3rd rounder was amazing. Mezaros will be just fine here. Keep in mind he's only 24. O"Donnell is one of those Lappy type guys post season (remember his run with the Ducks?) There are several teams that got a lot better today but they also lost some guys. We really didn't lose anyone yet and added some pieces. Am I happy about every move today? No. Not at all. But I'm certainly not ready to kill the man. Give him some time. If this is the team we ice in Oct I'll have some issues, but lets give him a few weeks before crowning him a moron. We were the worst team in the league 3 years ago and we just came 2 wins from the cup. I think he knows what he is doing.

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07-01-2010, 11:31 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
God! You dont think I realize that? I'm saying that no matter which trio we have, we still need to shed a pricey forward at the end.
No, we really don't because the Meszaros trade is a 100% luxury (and that's if he actually ****ing rebounds, otherwise it's another ****ing mess), and you can keep OD and still get Mason or Ellis and come out ahead.

There's no way we should keep the five defenders we have if it means sacrificing a forward. It just doesn't make sense. **** Paul Holmgren.

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07-01-2010, 11:41 PM
  #61
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I went to work and out for a short bit after, and I came home, and I'm not cooled down at all. I'm even more upset. I ****ing hate you, Paul Holmgren. I hope a bird ***** in your eye and then you walk into oncoming traffic because you can't see.

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07-01-2010, 11:42 PM
  #62
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I think we all need to take a deep breath here. In a couple days the sting of Homer's idiocy will be fading and people will realize that even though we didn't address our biggest need, we still have a marginally better team than we did last year (it would be more than marginally better if not for that Shelley signing but... what can you do?).

Get all your venting and letters to Ed Snider and lamentations about the downfall of the franchise out tonight and tomorrow. Then go to your happy place until training camp.

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07-01-2010, 11:44 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
http://www.csnphilly.com/07/01/10/Pa...589&feedID=704




Homer actually believes what he's saying. ****. That entire article makes me want to cry. I especially love the part about Turco "genuinely" wanting to sign here, yet Homer seemingly refusing to offer him more than $2M per season. So, a proven NHL starting goalie isn't worth more than $2M per season, yet a flash-in-the-pan journeyman minor league goalie who gave up some of the worst goals in hockey history in the Stanley Cup Finals is worth $1.55M per season and, quite possibly, the starter's role? Why -- how -- does this make sense to Paul Holmgren? I don't even have the words to describe how upset I am by all this. It's only going to be worse once we unload one of our pricey forwards merely for cap relief -- cap relief that wouldn't have been needed had we not signed Michael Leighton for $1.55M, Jody Shelley for $1.1M, and Sean O'Donnell for $1M. That's $3.65M of cap space pissed away, and only one of those players (Leighton) serves a real purpose.
Maybe it's just the optimist in me but I read that article as posturing for the sake of making Turco cheaper. "Hey Turco, we are happy with what we have right now and the other teams already signed guys today. Wanna work? Better be ready to sign cheap."

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Old
07-01-2010, 11:48 PM
  #64
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I guess I'm in the minority but:

Meszaros is a very, very good defenseman and will make this team much better as well as provide more depth for when injuries occur.

O'Donnell is a huge improvement over Parent or Krajicek on the 3rd pairing.

Shelley is a better player and fighter than Cote and is somebody this team needs when playing teams like Toronto, the Rangers, etc. who like to take runs at our smaller players.

So right now I think the Flyers are a better team. We will see what they can do about upgrading in net and signing Carcillo and Powe - who in my opinion are easily replaced by Nodl and Shelley/Phantoms player x.

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Old
07-01-2010, 11:53 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by clockwise View Post
Sucking ass for a few years worked out kind of ok good for the Penguins and Blackhawks.

Not that I want to deprive you of that death spiral into the corn field, but there's a lot of other franchises that would love to trade teams with the Flyers right now.
And also, when we were in a worse position, right today worry about Jody Shelley's $1.1M crippling us or in 2007 coming off the worst season in my lifetime? Holmgren did an OK job pulling us out of the fire there.

I hate to see Gagne being dangled, too, but let's face facts this is probably his last season in a Flyers uniform no matter how we approach this offseason. Next year it would be very difficult to make him a competitive offer under any circumstances, he could get big money for long years on the open market and the Flyers, rightfully, will not want to give him either one. If he was all ready to give a hometown discount (nothing drastic, say 3/13.5M) and we kicked him out the door, WOW, I'd be pissed, but I doubt that is the case.

Further the way things are setting up it looks like a DMAN is going to be moved, not a forward, so everyone relax, breathe easy and quit assuming the worst.

Today we took on ONE bad contract worth ONE million bucks. It's not going to make or break us either way. Re-signing Leighton was also not the end of the world.

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07-01-2010, 11:54 PM
  #66
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Oh, and the victories of the day SHOULD NOT be that we didn't have the worst contract (Rangers and Boogaard), or that at least Olli Jokinen is back in Calgary.

We're the Philadelphia Flyers. We play to win. We don't play to not lose. That's the job of the Eagles. Today has been ********.

Edit: BTW, the Pens got a lot better today with a little thing called smart, sensible signings. That's a problem even if we come out as winners today. And we didn't do that.


Last edited by Terence Peterman: 07-02-2010 at 12:07 AM.
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Old
07-01-2010, 11:56 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
I guess I'm in the minority but:

Meszaros is a very, very good defenseman and will make this team much better as well as provide more depth for when injuries occur.

O'Donnell is a huge improvement over Parent or Krajicek on the 3rd pairing.

Shelley is a better player and fighter than Cote and is somebody this team needs when playing teams like Toronto, the Rangers, etc. who like to take runs at our smaller players.

So right now I think the Flyers are a better team. We will see what they can do about upgrading in net and signing Carcillo and Powe - who in my opinion are easily replaced by Nodl and Shelley/Phantoms player x.
Nodle can play Powe's role much better. Losing Carcillo would be insulting only because we would have nothing to show for Upshall and our 2nd rounder. That would just stink of outright failure thus I can't see Holmgren totally eating crow on that one and not signing Carcillo...

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Old
07-02-2010, 02:11 AM
  #68
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As we all saw last year, the team you start the season with is not the team you end the season with. Deals will be made during the season, why not have a little faith in the organization we all love. If you guys want to jump ship, you are no better than bandwagon Penguins fans. Get a grip, it is July 1. If you pansies want to leave, go ahead, don't tarnish the heart and desire the Flyers portrayed all year by battling through thick and thin. The Flyers have the best defense in the East, the deepest group of forwards in the league (now that Chicago has dismantled) and a confident goalie that is out to prove all his doubters wrong.

How soon we forget how the Flyers were 14th in the East before Leighton came and saved the season with his play. Imagine the hoopla from you fools had Boucher not saved the shoot-out goal or not stoned Parise, Kovalchuk and Zajac. When Emery went down, the sky was falling, yet the team ended up in the SCF and had opportunities to win the series with a little better execution. Nut up, you guys are a bunch of drama queens.

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07-02-2010, 02:30 AM
  #69
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I just want to pose this question to the masses and see what kind of response it gets. If given the choice, which of these players -- taking age and salary into consideration -- would you rather have for this current Flyers team?

Andrej Meszaros (24 y/o, $4M)
Paul Martin (29 y/o, $5M)
Zbynek Michalek (27 y/o, $4M)
Anton Volchenkov (28 y/o $4.25M)

For me, Meszaros is third or fourth on that list, and we wouldn't have had to give up an asset (in this case, a 2nd round pick) to get one of the other three.

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07-02-2010, 02:32 AM
  #70
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I'd take Volchenkov first then Meszaros.

Michalek then Martin.

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Old
07-02-2010, 03:34 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
No, it isn't. Not when Michael Leighton is still our number 1. Until that changes, we haven't improved.
technically we went from boosh starting to leighton starting...thats an improvement.
today we went from bartulis-marshall to meszaros-o'donnel

anyways i want to see
a mix of:
pronger-timonen
carle - meszaros
coburn-o'donnel

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Old
07-02-2010, 08:40 AM
  #72
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I've never seen such a bunch of whiners in my life. It's a constant too, if it's not our 5th and 6th defenseman not playing like Lidstrom it's our goalie who's had a bad game or two, if not them then it's our coach and if all else fails then it's our fourth liners not scoring 30 and then the GM.

The only possible way that Holmgren could have taken this club downward is if we won the cup the year before he took over. We definitely did not. We're in a legitimate position to make a cup run now and will be for a few years in a row.

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07-02-2010, 08:43 AM
  #73
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OP, get a grip.

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07-02-2010, 08:44 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
No, it isn't. Not when Michael Leighton is still our number 1. Until that changes, we haven't improved.
That's incredibly obtuse.
If you don't see improvement, you're just a hater.

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Old
07-02-2010, 09:06 AM
  #75
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Shelly for 1.1M a year or Asham for 600K? Why the hell do we need Shelly at that price?

and why the hell did we pay 1.5M to Leighton who was making 300K last season? Both Hedberg and Biron (arguable better goalies) make less while Mason (a much better goalie) makes 300K more.

Why the hell did we sign Leighton even before July 1st? Like there was a line to sign him. Whats was the rush?

I am ok with Meszaros trade but I just do not understand why did we trade 2nd round pick for him. There were similar UFAs out there that we could get for free and pay less or just a little more.

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