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Old
07-02-2010, 12:20 AM
  #1
HyeDray
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Ready for the LIRR 3rd Rail? Before you go...

Breathe in...breathe out....

I have been on several Islander message boards and blogs—and there are some pretty irate, zany, wacky and down-right pissed Islander fans throughout Long Island. Trouble is—I can't quite understand why.


Okay–I know today was July 1, and I know everybody figured the Isles would do something to address the holes in the line-up, but nothing—no low level signing, no free agent acquisition. Nada. Zip. Zilch. barely a rumor that the Snow was in his office. Funny thing about it is—he was—and in some ways he may have done the right thing today by not going hog wild and feeding at the free agent frenzy.

Lets be logical—and break down a few important details....

ON THE ICE
Any free agent is looking at the Islanders and saying that they are still many years away—even the most generous assessment would be a season or two—but they are moving in the right direction. I love what Snow has done at the draft, but they are still in rebuild mode. That is a fair assessment, and all true. Tavares, Bailey, Okposo Moulsen, Schremp, Neilsen are intriguing players, along with Striet, Hillen and MacDonald. They have very good prospect coming in perhaps this year, but most likely next year in De Haan, Hamonic, and Neiderreiter. Nelson, Petrov and Kamanov are very curious, but don't know when they get to Long Island.

OFF THE ICE
The free agents likely come to Long Island when their team is on the road, and they see a broken-down building that sits in the middle of 77 acres of asphalt nary a tree in sight. It is dank, cold and dreary. Hardly a welcome mat. When they talk to players who have played for the Islanders, and they hear about beaches, and gold, the Hamptons, and proximity to NYC, they are skeptical. Most people have to SEE IT. Humans are visual being. They need to be able to and touch and feel the vibrancy of a city.

I have been to games outside of Long Island. In Boston—the hole area is buzzing. After a game, we went to dinner at Fanuel Hall. It was a short walk. Big time fun. In other cities—there are arena districts which become destinations. Sound a little like the now dead Light House Wang wanted to build?


THE ARENA and FRANCHISE
Can anyone tell us with any certainty where this franchise will be playing in October 2015? If you can, then Nostradamous has nothing on you! We don't know who is going to own the team in 2015. If Wang does not get what he wants from Mafia Murray and Mondello—the Hooples of Heampstead—and he cant work a deal with Queens, where does he go, and what are his options? Perhaps the team plays in Queens maybe they work a deal for Long Island. Maybe they move to Connecticut, or another city in Canada. Maybe Vegas. The point is there is vast uncertainty about this franchise's future, and that is not a recipe for attracting any free agent.


MONEY
The Islander have the cap space, and the Islander have displayed a willing owner. Lots of fans don't believe that—but I don't know too many people willing to hand someone the kind of money Yashin is collect to just not show up. He has spent money, and when it is right will continue to spend money. But clearly with so much uncertainty with the franchise, the idea of dumping more cash into the hole is not the best idea. It kills any options for flexibility if a move or sale need to happen. Wang wants to keep the team as fluid as possible—and I dont blame him. If the right deal, and right player comes along, I believe he will pay the terms.


JULY 1
We were all hoping for one of Volchenkov, Martin, Hamhuis or Michalek. It did not happen. We all wanted to see some activity, and rather then admit the possibility that our home town—our beloved Long Island was kicked under the bus by NHL players we "admire" or "desire" we blame the GM, the Owner or just about anyone else.

it takes two to tango. It was widely reported online that Snow offer Hamhuis more money to play here then in Vancouver. He offer Martin a solid deal that was comparable to what he got in Pitt. But what people need to do is look at the first paragraphs I wrote if they want to be hinest with themselves.

Martin, Volchenkov Hamhuis, and Michalek want to play with a good team. In Pitt your owner is Lemieux, your franchise has a new arena, and players named Staal, Crosby, Malkin and Fluery. In Vancover—as a defenseman, your goalie is Luongo and you play with the Sedins in a gorgeous city, new arena, and hockey crazy atmosphere.

When you are drafted, there is an understanding—if you are Tavares, Hall, or Hedman you are expecting to go to a franchise that just finished at or near the bottom of the league. You know—for the most part—your team will suck for a few years after you get there. But these are young guys who want ice-time and a chance to prove they belong. Helping to restore a franchise is okay at that point in your career. But it takes a special person to come into a situation like the one the Isles are in and say—I dont care all that much about the office I work in, or the state of the city I live in. How many of us want to work in a crappy office? How many of us want to commute to a place where it is barren and dank?

Kate Murray and the GOP are as much to blame for today lack of signing just as much as Mike Milbury is for destroying our once proud franchise. It can also be put on the gang of 4, and Spano and everyone inbetween. It falls on Snow and Wang to a point as well. But overall—Wang is allowing Snow to do his job.

ONE FINE DAY
It is only one day into free agency. There are COUNTLESS Players I can name that would be excellent additions to the Islanders, and some of them are going to sign. They will sign because they believe in the direction of the team, or because they know something about Long Island they like. They will sign because the money is right. Will it be Kovulchuk? No. But those expecting that need to rethink their expectations, and the state of the Islanders.


Garth Snow has done a remarkable job. I applaud his work. Today did not go the way anyone wanted—and I believe that includes Snow. But they know—and deep down so do we—if we are honest, that certain things need to happen to get July 1 right.

Scenario: If the Isles make the playoffs this year and win a round, that is the signal that the rebuild is working, and the team is ready to compete.

Scenario: If Wang gets a deal done for an arena, and the project actually begins, that will be a sign of further stability.

Of course the last scenario is the Islanders get their deal for a new facility in Queens leaving the Hoople of Hempstead to enjoy their new 16,000 seat crack den, AND we get into the playoff in April, and win a round.


I have faith in Snow. He will get the job done. He has earned my trust at this time, and until he does something to have me pull that faith—im sticking with my boys!

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Old
07-02-2010, 12:25 AM
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HyeDray, you make a lot of good points.

Until the isles get back into the playoffs and show they are on the right track,we can't be surprised that the top ufas prefer to sign with playoff teams.I know I would if I were a pro athlete.

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Old
07-02-2010, 12:26 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
Breathe in...breathe out....

I have been on several Islander message boards and blogs—and there are some pretty irate, zany, wacky and down-right pissed Islander fans throughout Long Island. Trouble is—I can't quite understand why.


Okay–I know today was July 1, and I know everybody figured the Isles would do something to address the holes in the line-up, but nothing—no low level signing, no free agent acquisition. Nada. Zip. Zilch. barely a rumor that the Snow was in his office. Funny thing about it is—he was—and in some ways he may have done the right thing today by not going hog wild and feeding at the free agent frenzy.

Lets be logical—and break down a few important details....

ON THE ICE
Any free agent is looking at the Islanders and saying that they are still many years away—even the most generous assessment would be a season or two—but they are moving in the right direction. I love what Snow has done at the draft, but they are still in rebuild mode. That is a fair assessment, and all true. Tavares, Bailey, Okposo Moulsen, Schremp, Neilsen are intriguing players, along with Striet, Hillen and MacDonald. They have very good prospect coming in perhaps this year, but most likely next year in De Haan, Hamonic, and Neiderreiter. Nelson, Petrov and Kamanov are very curious, but don't know when they get to Long Island.

OFF THE ICE
The free agents likely come to Long Island when their team is on the road, and they see a broken-down building that sits in the middle of 77 acres of asphalt nary a tree in sight. It is dank, cold and dreary. Hardly a welcome mat. When they talk to players who have played for the Islanders, and they hear about beaches, and gold, the Hamptons, and proximity to NYC, they are skeptical. Most people have to SEE IT. Humans are visual being. They need to be able to and touch and feel the vibrancy of a city.

I have been to games outside of Long Island. In Boston—the hole area is buzzing. After a game, we went to dinner at Fanuel Hall. It was a short walk. Big time fun. In other cities—there are arena districts which become destinations. Sound a little like the now dead Light House Wang wanted to build?


THE ARENA and FRANCHISE
Can anyone tell us with any certainty where this franchise will be playing in October 2015? If you can, then Nostradamous has nothing on you! We don't know who is going to own the team in 2015. If Wang does not get what he wants from Mafia Murray and Mondello—the Hooples of Heampstead—and he cant work a deal with Queens, where does he go, and what are his options? Perhaps the team plays in Queens maybe they work a deal for Long Island. Maybe they move to Connecticut, or another city in Canada. Maybe Vegas. The point is there is vast uncertainty about this franchise's future, and that is not a recipe for attracting any free agent.


MONEY
The Islander have the cap space, and the Islander have displayed a willing owner. Lots of fans don't believe that—but I don't know too many people willing to hand someone the kind of money Yashin is collect to just not show up. He has spent money, and when it is right will continue to spend money. But clearly with so much uncertainty with the franchise, the idea of dumping more cash into the hole is not the best idea. It kills any options for flexibility if a move or sale need to happen. Wang wants to keep the team as fluid as possible—and I dont blame him. If the right deal, and right player comes along, I believe he will pay the terms.


JULY 1
We were all hoping for one of Volchenkov, Martin, Hamhuis or Michalek. It did not happen. We all wanted to see some activity, and rather then admit the possibility that our home town—our beloved Long Island was kicked under the bus by NHL players we "admire" or "desire" we blame the GM, the Owner or just about anyone else.

it takes two to tango. It was widely reported online that Snow offer Hamhuis more money to play here then in Vancouver. He offer Martin a solid deal that was comparable to what he got in Pitt. But what people need to do is look at the first paragraphs I wrote if they want to be hinest with themselves.

Martin, Volchenkov Hamhuis, and Michalek want to play with a good team. In Pitt your owner is Lemieux, your franchise has a new arena, and players named Staal, Crosby, Malkin and Fluery. In Vancover—as a defenseman, your goalie is Luongo and you play with the Sedins in a gorgeous city, new arena, and hockey crazy atmosphere.

When you are drafted, there is an understanding—if you are Tavares, Hall, or Hedman you are expecting to go to a franchise that just finished at or near the bottom of the league. You know—for the most part—your team will suck for a few years after you get there. But these are young guys who want ice-time and a chance to prove they belong. Helping to restore a franchise is okay at that point in your career. But it takes a special person to come into a situation like the one the Isles are in and say—I dont care all that much about the office I work in, or the state of the city I live in. How many of us want to work in a crappy office? How many of us want to commute to a place where it is barren and dank?

Kate Murray and the GOP are as much to blame for today lack of signing just as much as Mike Milbury is for destroying our once proud franchise. It can also be put on the gang of 4, and Spano and everyone inbetween. It falls on Snow and Wang to a point as well. But overall—Wang is allowing Snow to do his job.

ONE FINE DAY
It is only one day into free agency. There are COUNTLESS Players I can name that would be excellent additions to the Islanders, and some of them are going to sign. They will sign because they believe in the direction of the team, or because they know something about Long Island they like. They will sign because the money is right. Will it be Kovulchuk? No. But those expecting that need to rethink their expectations, and the state of the Islanders.


Garth Snow has done a remarkable job. I applaud his work. Today did not go the way anyone wanted—and I believe that includes Snow. But they know—and deep down so do we—if we are honest, that certain things need to happen to get July 1 right.

Scenario: If the Isles make the playoffs this year and win a round, that is the signal that the rebuild is working, and the team is ready to compete.

Scenario: If Wang gets a deal done for an arena, and the project actually begins, that will be a sign of further stability.

Of course the last scenario is the Islanders get their deal for a new facility in Queens leaving the Hoople of Hempstead to enjoy their new 16,000 seat crack den, AND we get into the playoff in April, and win a round.


I have faith in Snow. He will get the job done. He has earned my trust at this time, and until he does something to have me pull that faith—im sticking with my boys!
Good post, makes a lot of sense, well thought out. I think as fans of other New York teams, we expect to get what we want, not realizing that the Islanders are not the Mets, Yanks, Jets or Giants in their sport.

Being in my mid 40's, hockey on Long Island is not 1/10th the sport it was during the 1970's and 1980's. It is hard to describe to the people on this board who are under 30, but if you were in High School from 1979-1987 on Long Island, you would see more NHL jerseys than NBA jerseys. There would be many a discussion of the previous night's action, and there were a lot more fans. Somewhere in the late 1980's, Long Island became more of a basketball town (we do not technically have a team). This has a lot to do with the nature of the sport. Basketball at that time was nearly 100% American. The players that are in the NBA, all came from American Colleges, and were on TV for a few years before entering the pro's. Unlike these NHL prospects, the talent was visible for a few years before they became professionals.

If you randomly walked into gyms, eateries, bars, etc on 7/1/10, and sampled 100 random sports fans on Long Island, there would be 20 times the anticipation for the NBA free agency. Bottom line: Hockey is a faded fan sport on Long Island. The long time Islander fans grew up here and moved away. It is very apparent by the number of transplants on this board.

If you are Dan Hamhuis you are going to be recognized in most bars and restaurants in Vancouver and 20 miles surrounding on a daily basis, on Long Island he would fade into the woodwork. On one summer day in 2009 at my gym in Central Nassau, Nate Thompson and AJ Price were both there at the same time, in different areas of the gym. AJ Price who had yet to fire a shot in the NBA was heavily recognized, while Thompson could go back and forth to the water cooler a few times and be as popular as random Hofstra student.

The thesis to my rambling is simple, you have to build something to attract players. It won't get easier if all these NBA free agents end up on the Knicks and Nets.

Two teams that come to mind that did not attract players while they were losing in big markets are the Black Hawks and Kings. Their teams were pedestrian and their basketball teams were the talk of the town. Now in Chicago, they have a Stanley Cup and the Bulls are praying to land a big FA, I mean you probably will see more Bulls jerseys than Hawks jerseys but at least there is a buzz about that team, that probably started in 08/09. I think the Islanders are not going to attract the top UFA's for another 2-3 years, mainly because there is a lack of winning and lack of hockey culture.


Last edited by majormet: 07-02-2010 at 12:38 AM.
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Old
07-02-2010, 12:34 AM
  #4
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Originally Posted by majormet View Post
Good post, makes a lot of sense, well thought out.
not a good post....a great post, and not one to be taken lightly because its reality,

If the chicken littles of the world cant see that then the onus is on them

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07-02-2010, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
HyeDray, you make a lot of good points.
He does; I agree 100%.

Labeling Garth Snow's job "remarkable" is not one of them, however.

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07-02-2010, 12:56 AM
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Very well thought out, smart, collected post! I can't disagree with a single thing you said here.

We've been patient for this long guys, and now that there's finally some shreds of hope on the Island, some clear positive direction the rebuild is taking, people want to go ******* crazy and and denounce everything GMG has done because we weren't able to sign all the shiny new UFAs we wanted?

Like the OP said, UFAs don't wanna come here for a multitude of reasons. Put yourself in their shoes for a hot second...can you really blame them for not wanting to come here? I know I don't. The way I see it, this gives the fruits of our crappy years more chances to better themselves, prove themselves, and get hungrier for that ice time, and our good young players are going to benefit from that. Call me crazy, but I have a really good feeling about the young dudes in our system, and in due time, I really think the likes of JT, Bailey, KO and the gang will be a force to be reckoned with, and something we can all be proud to represent as fans. Could you imagine if Garth shot his wad too soon on all these UFAs, and by doing so, put us at risk of not being able to retain OUR guys in the future? THAT, my friends, would be something to really complain about.

Our cabinet is stocked pretty well, and there's no Mad Mike around to flush it all down the toilet. I know this is early and maybe shooting for the stars (what can I say, I'm an optimist), but don't be too surprised if teams like NYI and Florida start to look like the next Pittsburgh and Chicago.

I can't remember the last time I felt this good about the future of the players we've been bringing up. I really think that if we stick with GMGs plan, we'll be A-OK. Toss in a new arena and some noise in the playoffs, and that's more of a sweetener for potential UFAs than Jeremy Colliton was .

I think this is by far my longest post ever. Yay!

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Old
07-02-2010, 01:05 AM
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I wonder what Garth's record on the job for 363 days of the year has as far as an impact on players choices to come here?

We got Guerin. Weight came afterwards. Guerin got shafted. Weight is sticking around, but....would anyone have him? Maybe? Hope he likes Long Island.

Players have said they like how Wang has treated them while they are here.

But players have also ran out the UFA door faster than any other team. Remember the Blake year....they left like bullets out of an AK47.

So pardon me if I'm cynical, but the regular antics of this organization are well known, the Smith firing/committee/I'm an independant back-up/it's the building (or GOP) antics are even in the thread opener's post.


If we acted more professional and hired the best GM/coach, think it'd matter?

If the standard set were set HIGH, would it matter?


Defend away this abysmal failure franchise. Our roster of kids is promising. Finishing as abysmally as we have we should congratulate ourselves on picking those early picks so well (and not doing a series of 39's). We just should look at the other 363 days as just as important. Where are the trades? Signings? What about the Isles does us justice as far as our image and ability to be an attractive team to sign with?


Pardon me if I expect better year round, not just any given draft round.


For the record, I'm happy with our prospect depth and that we have Tavares. I'd just prefer a first round exit every year over a first overall fight every year. The players have my support. The management on up have to earn it one of these decades. Snow is a director of scouting.


Last edited by OlTimeHockey: 07-02-2010 at 01:16 AM.
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Old
07-02-2010, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
But players have also ran out the UFA door faster than any other team. Remember the Blake year....they left like bullets out of an AK47.

So pardon me if I'm cynical, but the regular antics of this organization are well known, the Smith firing/committee/I'm an independant back-up/it's the building (or GOP) antics are even in the thread opener's post.


If we acted more professional and hired the best GM/coach, think it'd matter?

If the standard set were set HIGH, would it matter?


Pardon me if I expect better year round, not just any given draft round.

Did Trent Hunter run out the door? He did not have to sign a 5 year deal extension.

Mike Comrie—he signed an extension for a year.

Brendan Witt also signed an extension.

Radak Martinek and Richard Park both signed extensions.

Doug Weight signed an extension.

None of these guys are Kovulchuk/Crosby/Ovechkin. But we never had a player of that caliber to begin with. A player of that caliber comes from the draft.

Jason Blake—I am happy we did not resign him. He became the poster child for how to kill your franchise. Just ask any fan in Toronto. He is a good guy, and a solid 2nd tier player. I was sad to see the player go, but not at his age, and not at his salary demand. Garth Snow absolutely did the right thing. Poti and Kozlov—well—those two would have been nice to keep. Perhaps we did not go long enough on the number of years. Maybe when they saw that Yashin and Smyth were going, then they figured they should go as well. Bottom line—neither are Tier 1 players.

The so-called antics you are referencing are something that over the past 2 seasons have been gone. You think the Yankees don't have "antics?" Ever here of the Bronx Zoo? How about the Leafs? They have a GM Im sure you would argue is the best possible. How did they finish this year? Oh my, I can't quite recall. Because Boston held all of their draft picks.

Garth Snow has done a solid job. I called it "remarkable" because for this organization, it is. He has been able to construct a viable future. His job is not about the arena. But through excellent trades in 2008—trades most of thought were stupid and insane—have shown some real promise. Trades we thought were bad in 2009—when he moved up and gave up a lot of picks for Calvin De Haan—and we all said "who?".......today, De Haan is a blue chip NHL prospect.

The only thing unprofessional about the organization is PR. I will grant you that. But I would rather have Garth Snow as my GM then Glen Sather. I would rather have my GM over Sutter who I think has lost his mind at this point. I would rather have Snowy over Burke as well—who mortgage his future for Phil Kessel.

The suggestion that the team make trades is interesting. But please tell us who you are trading and what the return is going to be. Out young players and prospects are the only valuable commodity. Shall we trade John Tavares, Kyle Okposo and Josh Bailey for a so-called established player in his 30s?

That is the Mike Milbury method of management.

Shall we sign Kovulchuk to a 10 year deal for $12 mill per season? Okay—and how about we give Hamhuis $7 mill per season for 5 years. And then we can sign Paul Martin for $8 mil for 5 seasons. That would be $25 mil on three players for the next 5 seasons at least. Tell me—assuming you dont want to trade Tavares, how will you keep him and his contract under the cap? How about Okposo next year? Bailey? How will you sign Neiderreiter. What about July 1 2011 and 2012? How will we have cap space to add to our team?

The standard is set very high. The method to attain the standard is where we have a major difference in opinion. But I would like to know the name of a team that has won the Stanley Cup on July 1—or through free agent acquistions, and how many teams have won by building a core of talented players. Of the teams that have won through free agency—how many of them remained viable over a 10-12 year period?

Here is my list....

Teams that won the cup with free agency: 0
Teams that won the cup on drafting: ALL OF THEM!

Lets take a moment to look at this years winner:
Besides Cambell and Hossa—all of the impact players came as draft picks or trades for prospects during the lean years.

Lets look at the Penguins:
Crosby, Malkin, Flurey, Staal, Letang—correct me if I am wrong—all drafted

Why are the Capitals so strong? because of their free agents?

It starts with drafting. From there, it get supplements with good trades. The last piece of the puzzle—the last—is to add 2-3 free agent pieces to put you over the top.

We have a difference in how you build a team. My method is tried and true. It is the Bill Torrey method. Your method seems to be the Mike Milbury method.

Lets agree to disagree....

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Old
07-02-2010, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyeDray View Post
Did Trent Hunter run out the door? He did not have to sign a 5 year deal extension.

Mike Comrie—he signed an extension for a year.

Brendan Witt also signed an extension.

Radak Martinek and Richard Park both signed extensions.

Doug Weight signed an extension.

None of these guys are Kovulchuk/Crosby/Ovechkin. But we never had a player of that caliber to begin with. A player of that caliber comes from the draft.

Jason Blake—I am happy we did not resign him. He became the poster child for how to kill your franchise. Just ask any fan in Toronto. He is a good guy, and a solid 2nd tier player. I was sad to see the player go, but not at his age, and not at his salary demand. Garth Snow absolutely did the right thing. Poti and Kozlov—well—those two would have been nice to keep. Perhaps we did not go long enough on the number of years. Maybe when they saw that Yashin and Smyth were going, then they figured they should go as well. Bottom line—neither are Tier 1 players.

The so-called antics you are referencing are something that over the past 2 seasons have been gone. You think the Yankees don't have "antics?" Ever here of the Bronx Zoo? How about the Leafs? They have a GM Im sure you would argue is the best possible. How did they finish this year? Oh my, I can't quite recall. Because Boston held all of their draft picks.

Garth Snow has done a solid job. I called it "remarkable" because for this organization, it is. He has been able to construct a viable future. His job is not about the arena. But through excellent trades in 2008—trades most of thought were stupid and insane—have shown some real promise. Trades we thought were bad in 2009—when he moved up and gave up a lot of picks for Calvin De Haan—and we all said "who?".......today, De Haan is a blue chip NHL prospect.

The only thing unprofessional about the organization is PR. I will grant you that. But I would rather have Garth Snow as my GM then Glen Sather. I would rather have my GM over Sutter who I think has lost his mind at this point. I would rather have Snowy over Burke as well—who mortgage his future for Phil Kessel.

The suggestion that the team make trades is interesting. But please tell us who you are trading and what the return is going to be. Out young players and prospects are the only valuable commodity. Shall we trade John Tavares, Kyle Okposo and Josh Bailey for a so-called established player in his 30s?

That is the Mike Milbury method of management.

Shall we sign Kovulchuk to a 10 year deal for $12 mill per season? Okay—and how about we give Hamhuis $7 mill per season for 5 years. And then we can sign Paul Martin for $8 mil for 5 seasons. That would be $25 mil on three players for the next 5 seasons at least. Tell me—assuming you dont want to trade Tavares, how will you keep him and his contract under the cap? How about Okposo next year? Bailey? How will you sign Neiderreiter. What about July 1 2011 and 2012? How will we have cap space to add to our team?

The standard is set very high. The method to attain the standard is where we have a major difference in opinion. But I would like to know the name of a team that has won the Stanley Cup on July 1—or through free agent acquistions, and how many teams have won by building a core of talented players. Of the teams that have won through free agency—how many of them remained viable over a 10-12 year period?

Here is my list....

Teams that won the cup with free agency: 0
Teams that won the cup on drafting: ALL OF THEM!

Lets take a moment to look at this years winner:
Besides Cambell and Hossa—all of the impact players came as draft picks or trades for prospects during the lean years.

Lets look at the Penguins:
Crosby, Malkin, Flurey, Staal, Letang—correct me if I am wrong—all drafted

Why are the Capitals so strong? because of their free agents?

It starts with drafting. From there, it get supplements with good trades. The last piece of the puzzle—the last—is to add 2-3 free agent pieces to put you over the top.

We have a difference in how you build a team. My method is tried and true. It is the Bill Torrey method. Your method seems to be the Mike Milbury method.

Lets agree to disagree....
Bravo, good sir. You took the words right out of my mouth, and then some.

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07-02-2010, 10:47 AM
  #10
Twine Seeking Missle
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HyeDray, you make a lot of good points.

Until the isles get back into the playoffs and show they are on the right track,we can't be surprised that the top ufas prefer to sign with playoff teams.I know I would if I were a pro athlete.
Yes, you are correct. In fact, a lot of people on the boards have been saying that and they are indeed correct.

However... I think everyone is either missing or just refusing to acknowledge one big point...

In order for the team to make the playoffs and make some noise in the playoffs... OUTSIDE HELP is needed! The team as is will not make it. We need outside help. If we can't get outside help until we show something, does anyone else see a problem there? It's a cycle that's virtually impossible to escape from.

Sure, 3 years down the road and a few more top draft picks added along the way, in theory we could be ready to contend without any outside help. But at that point, some of our young guns will be free agents and will jet to vancouver, NYR, Philly, etc. Guess what happens then? That's right... another 5-7 year re-build that will only be followed by yet another re-build.

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07-02-2010, 10:53 AM
  #11
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Garth is gonna have to do something has hasn't done in 3 years - make a real NHL trade.

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07-02-2010, 10:57 AM
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HyeDray
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Originally Posted by Twine Seeking Missle View Post
Yes, you are correct. In fact, a lot of people on the boards have been saying that and they are indeed correct.

However... I think everyone is either missing or just refusing to acknowledge one big point...

In order for the team to make the playoffs and make some noise in the playoffs... OUTSIDE HELP is needed! The team as is will not make it. We need outside help. If we can't get outside help until we show something, does anyone else see a problem there? It's a cycle that's virtually impossible to escape from.

Sure, 3 years down the road and a few more top draft picks added along the way, in theory we could be ready to contend without any outside help. But at that point, some of our young guns will be free agents and will jet to vancouver, NYR, Philly, etc. Guess what happens then? That's right... another 5-7 year re-build that will only be followed by yet another re-build.
I AGREE...outside help is indeed needed.

But I think part of convincing that help to sign on the dotted will mean a strong and viable core.

I guess in the simplest way I can say it—our inside core group is going to have to get it done on its own before a "big name" considers the Island.

I would like to add—there are plenty of free agents still available whom I would have no problem adding....Joe Corvo on the blue line, Lombardi, Stempniak, Frolov...Andy Strickland mention Brian Mcgrattan—not sure I would be overjoyed, but adding him makes at least some sense to take on Boogaard and his dumb contract...leave it to the Rangers.

Plenty of time....plenty of good supporting roll players out there.

Bottom line—our "stars" are going to need to come from within, not free agency.

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07-02-2010, 11:03 AM
  #13
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over analysis and self made therapy sessions do not change a thing about this ownership and it's penny pinching ways.
The reality is, this franchise of ours has finished 26th, 30th and 26th. They continue to do unconventional things and get laughed at by the rest of the league. Fans, die hard fans like myself have every right to be ticked since we've supported this team since 1972.
Here is the reality.


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07-02-2010, 11:07 AM
  #14
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I wonder what Garth's record on the job for 363 days of the year has as far as an impact on players choices to come here?

We got Guerin. Weight came afterwards. Guerin got shafted. Weight is sticking around, but....would anyone have him? Maybe? Hope he likes Long Island.

Players have said they like how Wang has treated them while they are here.

But players have also ran out the UFA door faster than any other team. Remember the Blake year....they left like bullets out of an AK47.

So pardon me if I'm cynical, but the regular antics of this organization are well known, the Smith firing/committee/I'm an independant back-up/it's the building (or GOP) antics are even in the thread opener's post.


If we acted more professional and hired the best GM/coach, think it'd matter?

If the standard set were set HIGH, would it matter?


Defend away this abysmal failure franchise. Our roster of kids is promising. Finishing as abysmally as we have we should congratulate ourselves on picking those early picks so well (and not doing a series of 39's). We just should look at the other 363 days as just as important. Where are the trades? Signings? What about the Isles does us justice as far as our image and ability to be an attractive team to sign with?


Pardon me if I expect better year round, not just any given draft round.


For the record, I'm happy with our prospect depth and that we have Tavares. I'd just prefer a first round exit every year over a first overall fight every year. The players have my support. The management on up have to earn it one of these decades. Snow is a director of scouting.
I definitely agree that bizarre antics by the Islanders' front office can definitely drive free agents away from Long Island. Look at the Yankees in the '80s. Steinbrenner, as much as I appreciate his business dealings, for lack of better word, went mad. Why the heck would any free agent sign here if he played for an over-reactionary owner who spied on one of his players (Winfield)? The Yankees then would miss the playoffs every year from 1982 to 1993.

However, when Steinbrenner was suspended, the door was opened for Genen Michael and he subsequently rebuilt the team. Then players such as Bernie Williams (almost traded by Steinbrenner), Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera (almost traded for Felix Fermin or David Wells) eventually became part of the Yankee roster. However, it was not just the youth that led the Yankees to their first playoff berth in over a decade. It was trading for veterans such as Paul O'Neill (gave up top prospect) and signing guys like Jimmy Key that drove the Yankees over the top. Then New York suddenly becomes the place for FAs to go and you sign the Tino Martinez's and the David Cone's of the world.

This is what the Islanders have to do to become competitive. They need to draft well and support the youth with veterans! Even giving up a prospect or two may be necessary. Bad habits and embarrassing tendencies by the organization must disappear and then the free agents will want to sign here.

Even the Yankees needed to be well-run in order for the late-90s dynasty to happen.

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07-02-2010, 11:13 AM
  #15
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Every team loses players to free agency. The Isles aren't losing players any faster than any other team. Devils, Red Wings, Penguins, etc. all lose good players on a regular basis. The Isles lost Mike Comrie and Tim Jackman.

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07-02-2010, 11:27 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by stevedepot View Post
over analysis and self made therapy sessions do not change a thing about this ownership and it's penny pinching ways.
The reality is, this franchise of ours has finished 26th, 30th and 26th. They continue to do unconventional things and get laughed at by the rest of the league. Fans, die hard fans like myself have every right to be ticked since we've supported this team since 1972.
Here is the reality.


Help me please…What has been unconventional in 2008, 2009 and 2010?

No one is saying you dont have a right to be ticked. Im ticked too. But to suggest that Snow is not doing his job, or making every attempt to sign players via free agency is wishful thinking.

The part that hurts, but no one wants to really admit—it is not just a rejection of the team. because they are free agents, it feels like it is a rejection of Long Island. A rejection of us and our home—that somehow our home is not good enough.

I think that is largely untrue.

I think having a pity party is not the right play. The teams that are active offer more cache at this time then we do. If we had a new arena and vibrant arena district, and the stability that goes with it and the on-ice product was the same—we may not fare all that much better, but I believe a bit better. But if we get those things, and we get into the playoffs this coming season—you are going to see a much different result.

Hamhuis: Signed with a playoff team and a chance to play with stars.
Martin: Signed to play with Crosby & Co and a great shot at more cups.

That is why they went elsewhere.

The assumption that Snow is sitting on his hands, or that Wang is unwilling to spend money has not been paying attention to the dollars—and is drunk on their own Kool-Aid.

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07-02-2010, 11:34 AM
  #17
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Lets face it they are going to sign players this offseason because they have holes on the roster and need to get to cap floor. That being said did anyone want Dererk Boogard and his 4 year 1.65 per contract, guy hasn't scored a goal in 4 years. I was upset we didn't sign Volchenkov, he would have been a good fit for our blueline but Devils are much better option for him. The contracts doled out yesterday, i bet half of them become buyout fodder in a season or two. I'm also not trying to blindly follow this organization but Garth has had a plan and has stuck to it, it is a slow plan but it is the right way to do this.

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07-02-2010, 11:37 AM
  #18
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enjoy your koolaid. this isn't a "pity party" it's reality. This owner cares about real estate and this GM is holding the company line until he has an actual green light.

if you really need someone to point out all that was "unconventional" the last few years...wow.

ok. let's agree to disagree and move on.

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07-02-2010, 11:38 AM
  #19
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I blame this over-reaction from the fans on video games and the mentality that it brings. In NHL 2010 you can sign anyone you want, reality is that this is not video games. You can offer a (significantly?) better contract and still get rejected. Unlike in video games you cant trade your crap for their gold.

Snow made an effort to sign good players (Martin, Hamuis) it didn't work out but its not the end of the world. I just hope he doesn't panic (like most of us here) and ends up signing garbage and/or FAs at insane contracts. Or panicking through trades. I mean we had the same exact situation with Peca and Yashin in 01. Sure we were awesome for that year but then we got a bit unlucky and had pretty much nothing to fall back on. Had Milbury been patient we probably would not be in this situation today and maybe Milbury still has a job.

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07-02-2010, 11:50 AM
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Snow waiting out the clock is fine...no need to over pay as the remaining UFA's will start to panic and will settle to prove their worth.

Also as Clubs load up on UFA's and push their caps to the max there are still great rfa's without contracts making it very interesting for The Isles who have plenty of cap space.


Snow will land some fish sooner or later.....I am sure it will be worth the wait.

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07-02-2010, 11:51 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by stevedepot View Post
enjoy your koolaid. this isn't a "pity party" it's reality. This owner cares about real estate and this GM is holding the company line until he has an actual green light.

if you really need someone to point out all that was "unconventional" the last few years...wow.

ok. let's agree to disagree and move on.
Yes, I think we should.....because as I see it—since 2008, this team has done EXACTLY what a team rebuilding from ground zero does.

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07-02-2010, 11:52 AM
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I blame this over-reaction from the fans on video games and the mentality that it brings. In NHL 2010 you can sign anyone you want, reality is that this is not video games. You can offer a (significantly?) better contract and still get rejected. Unlike in video games you cant trade your crap for their gold.

Snow made an effort to sign good players (Martin, Hamuis) it didn't work out but its not the end of the world. I just hope he doesn't panic (like most of us here) and ends up signing garbage and/or FAs at insane contracts. Or panicking through trades. I mean we had the same exact situation with Peca and Yashin in 01. Sure we were awesome for that year but then we got a bit unlucky and had pretty much nothing to fall back on. Had Milbury been patient we probably would not be in this situation today and maybe Milbury still has a job.

I get what you're saying but forget the video games. my 10 year old doesn't even bring them up when discussing the Isles.
I've followed and supported this Isles team since day 1 in 1972. I have never seen a more blatant display of of insulting fans intelligence than what we've seen from this regime. If poeple want to believe the propaganda and subsequent damage control via Katie Strang's articles, be my guest. I disagree. This org will once again scrape form the bottom of the barrel just to meet the cap floor. Just as many of us old timers have said for months. Did you watch Hockey night live last nigt at 11pm? They couldn't even fight back laughter. WE got our original 1972 jerseys back for home and away now. Wahoo!!!

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07-02-2010, 12:05 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by ps527 View Post
I blame this over-reaction from the fans on video games and the mentality that it brings. In NHL 2010 you can sign anyone you want, reality is that this is not video games. You can offer a (significantly?) better contract and still get rejected. Unlike in video games you cant trade your crap for their gold.
While I understand your point, it's actually pretty difficult to make trades in that game. Great game, just sayin'.

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07-02-2010, 04:05 PM
  #24
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Guys, even Botta is commenting on it.

The Coliseum's fault.
No one likes us.
Waah.

The team is looked at like a joke for several reasons. It just seems unstable. Trades are not made to improve it. The GM only shows up on draft day and occasionally to get us the Oleg twins in free agency day.

We're not God awful (Weight, Streit, Guerin and now Eaton signed with us) but no dynamic names will.

Katie tweets right after yesterday that the building and Murray are to blame.

Botta writes today (as I wrote all yesterday) :
http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2...day-1-shutout/ (12:05am)
Quote:
When the Islanders have a season like the Phoenix Frickin Coyotes did this season, players will listen to their offers. When the Islanders have a season like Colorado did, maybe agents won’t have to manufacture cover for the Islanders’ failure to sign a Type A free agent. If the Islanders’ rebuild is on target, there’s no reason why that can’t happen next summer or the one after that. When the Islanders have a 100-point season, I guarantee no one’s going to ask how extravagant the Coli’s family room is.

In the mean time, lining up the excuses does not look good. How does the Nobody-Wants-the-Islanders chorus reflect on the players that do sign here over the next few days or weeks? Cripes, what does it say about Doug Weight? Stop it. It’s insulting.

A slow news day in August, if you want to recap the offseason shopping and mention the Coliseum hurdle…that’s one thing. At least wait until Kate Murray potentially makes herself the villainess. To spread this crap soon after dinnertime on the first day of free agency, while the Coyotes are signing people, is shameful.
Stop being a widduh victim and we might get some respect, in other words. Totally unprofessional and reflects poorly on players we want - and players we have.

And three years of hockey with no stupidity from Wang. The Guerin trade/fiasco? Witt, a respected vet not allowed to play in the NHL again (for one more year)? Ticket holders treatment at the draft (leave now!)?

There's bee a lot more good lately. Yes. Snow is learning and we got lucky in Moulson, may get lucky in Schremp and if the other goalies don't refuse to sign like Ridderwall, might get lucky in net down the road.....but will Rick be doing 6 game cameos to stall the season for long?

We are not swimming nicely right now.

The Isles have a major problem of image. We're not run professionally. We're the sad kid pouting every summer. I wanna take Snow's lunch money right now.

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Old
07-03-2010, 11:58 AM
  #25
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i don't buy the self-loathing. Wang is not responsible for before his time, and Isles fans need to get over the past. People acting like he's closing the wallet for players when Garth's chased a bunch of top dmen is just plain silly. They also tried last year to no avail.

I'll blame wang for DPs awful deal and mucking up a situation further with Magano and TOH (not that ToH didn't screw it up also)...but i cannot hang Isles issues and problems before his time no matter how much like battered housewives we act as a fanbase.

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