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Old
07-01-2010, 11:29 PM
  #1
glenngineer
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Blown Away

I am blown away at our fan base. One day of free agency and everyone is throwing Poile under the bus yet again. We didn't make a move. We didn't trade for anyone. All we did was sign Andersson. Blah blah blah blah blah. We lost Arnott, Hamhuis, Ellis and Grebeshkov and all we got was Andersson in return. We can't go into the season without replacing Arnott up front.

Reality check people. Here's some point and counterpoint for you.

Arnott gone. We lose a guy who had size but rarely used it. We lose a guy on the downside of his career with concussion history and a salary of $4.5 million for his last season. We got rid of a captain who played when he wanted to. When he wanted to he could dominate, when he didn't, we were not a very good team. His attitude and lack of hustle will not be missed. Replacing him is Wilson. There is a reason he went at number 7 the year he was picked. There is a reason Poile moved up to get him at number 7. He's an unproven commodity at this point but so is any young kid except for the rare exceptions of guys like Ovechkin and Crosby and a handful of others. He's had a taste of the NHL, will be healed up from his groin issues of last year and should be able to put it together getting big minutes in his first full season in the NHL. Poile and Trotz feel he's ready to go. At this point, I trust their judgement on Wilson and he should be able to replace what Arnott brought to the table. He will also get the benefit of playing alongside professionals that bring it night in and night out as opposed to watching a captain like Arnott who brought it when it was convenient for him.

Losing Ellis is not a great loss. It just means Rinne gets more of the starts. If anyone has noticed, Rinne plays better when given more time and gets into a groove. When he's rotated and in and out the net, he struggles. This is not a huge loss in my book and while our back up won't be as solid as Ellis was, I'll take my chances with Rinne taking the reigns and having a back up that might win 50% of his games, whoever that might be at this point. If we sign a vet for league minimum, I still think we're a better team with the amount of games Rinne will get.

Hamhuis was a risk. Should we have dealt him before last season or at the deadline. That's debatable. Without him, I'm not sure we make the playoffs. With him, we got knocked out in the first round but gave Chicago a good run for their money. We end up with Parent out of the deal. That in and of itself is a risk with his injury history but if our docs cleared him as healthy then time will tell if this was a good move. I wasn't happy that we lost Hamhuis but monetarily we had to. We have enough of a stockpile of players in Milwaukee and coming up through the juniors that will be able to fill his role in a few years just fine. Bouillon and Klein can hold down the second pairing just fine. If you look at the amount of time Klein and Hamhuis played last year, Klein was not that far behind in minutes, shifts, etc of Hamhuis. Our best run of the season when we ran off something like 11 of 12 games, Klein and Bouillon were the second pairing. If Trotz feels we need to be a little more spread out talent wise, he can always split up Suter and Weber and pair Klein with Suter and Weber with Bouillon and still have two pretty solid pairings with Franson and either Parent or Blum mopping up the rest of the minutes.

Grebeshkov was gone regardless and he was there to help the PP and give us some more depth on the blue line. He got hurt, it was a shame but he wasn't in our plans with what we have in our system.

Picking up SK for Ellis and Boyd, who we were losing in 2 days, was a low risk, high payoff move for this franchise. He has top 6 talent but had maturity issues in Montreal. Playing in Montreal is like playing for the Yankees in NY. It's pressure 24/7. Other guys have had issues there, Roy and Price being two guys I can think of right off the bat. Bouillon has stated he will take SK under his wing if he decides to come here. If Bouillon is willing to do that, he must know something that the rest of us don't. The reward with SK is high and if he's a detriment to the team, we've lost nothing if we dump him. His salary is not going to break the bank either.

I looked at a post SLake had up of our potential opening day roster and I have to say, I like it a whole lot more than most people are giving Poile credit for. Is Poile done? I doubt it, he always has something up his sleeve and I have a funny feeling we still might add a piece or two to the puzzle. We don't have the big stars in our lineup but we have a pretty solid team if you look closely enough at what we have. I am encouraged at what I've seen this offseason so far and am cautiously optimistic at what the future holds for us. To be upset about what we did or didn't do today is premature in my book. So we didn't make a splash, big whoop. Who got signed today that would've fit on this team and at a salary that was doable by us? Other than Tanguay who signed for $1.7 million, there isn't one guy I would've liked to have seen us sign. All the big name defensemen went and for about the price we knew they'd go for. The goalies that went were overpaid in my opinion, as far as backups go. The forwards that went other than Tanguay were of no interest to me to be quite honest. There are still a lot of guys out there to be had. Poile has a way of landing pieces that fit on the team and at a salary that fits here.

While it's frustrating being handcuffed by salary limitations, we still have a pretty good team to root for. If SK signs with us and we re-sign Hornqvist, Franson and Parent, I'd be ok going into the season with what we have. It may not be glamourous but it will get the job done night in and night out.

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07-02-2010, 12:17 AM
  #2
MrJoshua
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This happens every year at this time, with the possible exception of the summer after the Kariya signing (that was before I started following any Preds boards, so I don't know for sure).

Are there question marks? Yes. But we'll see how it turns out.

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07-02-2010, 02:51 AM
  #3
Que Sera Sera
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Most fanbases are like this. Let it blow over, and when we have another excellent season, fans will be singing Poile's praises.

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07-02-2010, 03:04 AM
  #4
sparkle twin
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It's a combination of UFA day frenzy and instant gratification.

Mostly I think everyone just gets caught up in the frenzy of the day. We see all these teams adding guys, most for big money, and it seems like every team in the league is improving....except for us. It sucks that we all know that the team can't go throw money at players when we watch teams sign guys for $20-27 mil.

Even though we traded soon to be UFAs for something, it wasn't on July 1, they aren't totally proven players we got back, and we traded away players that were popular or proven or coveted in the league. Of course we didn't get total value for the players we traded but they were UFAs and really no one had to make a deal with us at all and we could have lost them for nothing. We don't know what we are going to get out of SK or Parent, but other teams know (or think they know) just what they will get with Hamhuis, Ellis, Gonchar, Volchenkov, etc.

Other teams' fans are excited for who they signed, they've gotten their hopes up at what seems to be instant improvements to their team. Meanwhile, we're sitting here with mostly the same offense-starved lineup from last season.

It's just that, "Oh no everyone is being signed, the best players are gone, we can't afford anyone, we don't have anyone, we're never going to get anyone" panic. But a few days later people will calm down and realize that most of our best moves tend to come a few days later or sometimes a few days before or even into training camp.

And hopefully most people will realize that about half the big money players signed were dmen....which we all know we don't need.

There is still a lot of offense out there.





Don't worry Pred fans, unless I missed a late one, not one Central division team signed a UFA Thursday (except for re-signing their own players).

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07-02-2010, 05:40 AM
  #5
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Agree with all of the above posts.

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Old
07-02-2010, 05:49 AM
  #6
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Okay the world is about to come to an end. Logic and common sense in the above posts. WOW!!



I definitely agree that it is still early and there is NO reason to panic.

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07-02-2010, 06:10 AM
  #7
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spank303 View Post
Don't worry Pred fans, unless I missed a late one, not one Central division team signed a UFA Thursday (except for re-signing their own players).
6'8" defenseman John Scott, the goon formerly of the Wild, signed a 2 year deal in Chicago for $512k annually. That was the only new piece added to any of the Central Division teams via free agency yesterday.

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07-02-2010, 06:45 AM
  #8
triggrman
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Because we're not jumping up and down screaming yes, we're in the wrong?

If this is what we are then it is what it is.

Every year we will struggle in the playoffs, every year we will exit early, every summer we'll lose our better players as they become UFA or just expensive every year we'll hear about next year.

this is what it's like being a Vandy fan....

Weeks ago, I posted on the "Huge Move" thread we would not do anything in the FA market so I'm not shocked, we never make big moves Poile never has, it's not his nature. He didn't with Washington either.

Some of you can't see the forrest through all the trees. If you really think not losing Ellis, Hamhuis and Arnott won't hurt some, I have a bridge for you.


Last edited by triggrman: 07-02-2010 at 07:20 AM.
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Old
07-02-2010, 08:38 AM
  #9
BigFatCat999
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When I post the train of thought is on what the Preds CAN do, not one what they MUST do. The only thing the Predators MUST do is stay the hell in Nashville. Note, alot of the big money teams spent some seriously stupid money for a lot of meh. Capgeek nailed it in their tweet where this year GM's spent just as much money for 1/4th the contract length for FAs as they did last year.

Let me say that again. GMs spent just as much money this year as last but got 1/4th the years for talent that was meh.

Seriously, I'm not even close to worried about signing a big FA. Why? the scale of spending for top talent is why out of whack for the spending for the next tier down. It's also a risk the Preds can't afford. Once you make the commitment to said player you most likely have to commit to a NMC. You have to commit seriously stupid money into a guy who might just say, "Yeah, I wanna be traded to NY." And when you make the trade you aren't even gonna come close to getting what his value is.

Right now, the gambles the Preds are taking are gamble they can afford. Do you know when I will panic? When the Preds start spending stupid money to make the roster better. Stupid money tells me they are out the door. The signings and trades show a preservation of capital, which means the team is staying. That means a hell of a lot more to me than winning.

Deal with it, this team is the Florida Marlins of the NHL. If you don't have the stomach to deal with a lack of spending the Rangers are always looking for fans but they usually suck worse than the Preds. Poile and co. do it right, that's why teams are consistently poaching managerial talent from them.

The nature of this group is very cyclical and the definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior and expecting a different result.

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07-02-2010, 08:42 AM
  #10
darth5
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I think there are still some teams that will have to work thru their rosters and resolve cap issues and shed some valuable players that won't fit their team anymore after their feeding frenzy. Perhaps their scraps are where a team like Nashville can find the missing piece for their roster, and this is why those teams 'stand pat' at first.

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07-02-2010, 09:07 AM
  #11
barrytrotzsneck
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I, again, agree with Trig. It's getting a little frustrating that a few posters around here blow up and repeat the same condescending facts over and over if you so much as mention that maybe, just maybe, Colin Wilson isn't ready to be a number 1 center, or that it's not a given that Jonas Andersson\Sergei Kostitsyn will pan out.

We're all fans of the Preds. We wouldn't spend as much time clicking refresh on a hockey messageboard if we weren't. I do think a lot of the anger\resentment directed at Poile is misplaced. He's operating within the confines of a very restrictive budget. There could be some frustration with the ownership not realizing that the old adage sometimes ring true, "you have to spend money to make money," but again...who am I to spit in the face of a group that ultimately kept hockey in Nashville?

My concern, and I know this often gets dusted off when I bring it up, is that the fanbase is at probably the most tenuous point that it's ever been. Just gauging the watercooler talk of casual fans, there's an unsettling amount of frustration growing. If anyone questions the model the Predators work with, someone here will always point out that we make the playoffs every year, and lots of teams would be glad to have that. I don't think that's cutting it for a lot of borderlines in Nashville, anymore. Being the Brooklyn Brawler of the NHL is an empty satisfaction. When you add the appearance of repeatedly dumping salary every offseason, it doesn't make people want to buy tickets--definitely not in the corporate venue. We as fans know that Arnott, Hamhuis, Ellis, Grebs, etc won't pose a huge loss. But to someone who only glances at the Tennessean for their hockey information(a sad reality we're faced with), it's not exactly an impetus to want to take your family and get behind it. Yes, hockey is "saved" in Nashville...but we've got one foot in the woods. My ticket rep, whom I've known now for going on 5 seasons, was pretty open when I asked him how season ticket renewals\new sales were, as compared to preveious seasons: "there's definitely concern at the number of non-renewals and the pace of new packages." You're fooling yourself if you think the repeated playoff failures and perceived annual firesale has nothing to do with that.

At some point, you have to take a risk. Yes, a proven "name" scorer is going to be an investment, but isn't the return worth it? Look at the buzz, the tickets sold, that trading for Peter Forsberg created. That move made a statement, and the city and its fickle fans took notice. How much longer will they be content to see a group of average or "yet unrealized potential" forwards hopefully hit 12-15 goals. Every time this is brought up, Poile(or Trotz) will point to someone like Joel Ward, or even Dan Ellis. When you have a bargain here and there that you thought you were picking up for depth turn into a legitimate contributor...that's great, an added bonus. But when, year after year, you count on having at least two such players...you're skating on thin ice.

My motivations here are noble. I know that some of you get tired of my perceived gloom and frustration. I sometimes grow weary of the unchecked optimism...but we have to get along . The point is that I'm as big of a fan as any of you. I'm as passionate, invested, and supportive as any of you. I don't root for this model to fail. I just feel that it's a shaky approach to ever achieve anything outside of a "really gave those guys a run for their money" every year. And I think most of all, the disappointment we as diehard fans feel can be far worse on those that don't want to spend the time or money to get into a team that doesn't have the tools to be a true contender. And ultimately, I fear that dissatisfaction could be the ticket out of town for the Preds.

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Old
07-02-2010, 09:19 AM
  #12
BigFatCat999
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This year, I'm not worried about locking up casual fan. I'm worried about locking up corporate fan. The flooding will hurt the casual fan and solidifying the corporate base will be the most important thing for this year to prepare for next year. The year that both the NFL and NBA are looking to lock-out strike. Tell me, what is casual fan going to do with zero NFL and Zero NBA games on the tv? What are they going to do when the only game in town is the NHL? (Pro. wise) Casual fan will come back in 2 years.

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07-02-2010, 09:19 AM
  #13
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BTN, I'm not saying Wilson will be a fix, I'm saying he probably should be able to handle the job. While the people that have support of the moves that Poile makes and the hopes that Wilson, SK and Andersson pan out, I too get sick of the people that make comments that we haven't done anything to replace Arnott, Hamhuis and Ellis and when I presented what I did earlier, the truth probably lies somewhere in between what I've written and what you and Trig feel as well. I'm fine with that.

Thing is, people mention we should make a move for this or that, yet I rarely here proposals that make any sort of sense. We should trade spare parts and get a goal scorer. That's all fine and good but no players or their salaries are mentioned.

Honestly, I agree that at some point we must take a chance. There is one big fish out there right now with our name on him. His name is Kovalchuk. Most people will laugh at me for this suggestion but here are a few reasons he's a good fit.

1) He's the marquee player we've all coveted since the franchise has been here. He is an elite sniper

2) He wants to win. He didn't turn down the money in Atlanta because it wasn't enough, he turned it down because that franchise hasn't a clue of how to run itself. It's let players like himself, Heatley, Savard, Coburn and a few others walk away without much of a return.

3) He has stated he wants to play in a smaller market to be able to raise his family without the distractions of the media and fan base. What better place to do so than here in Nashville.

4) If it's true that he wants to win, he can set a precedent by coming here and taking a salary that would allow the Predators to build a team around him. We have some great pieces already in place, Rinne, Weber, Suter for starters but we need that one piece that might be able to take us over the top.

People will then question, how do we get the money to do so. My thought is trade Dumont. Trading him and the money freed up from the Arnott trade is an $8.5 million reduction in salary. I'm not saying give him all that money. Hornqvist needs to be re-signed as well as Franson, Parent, SK and a back up goalie.

Now, plug Kovie into our lineup with the loss of Dumont. What would you think of our lineup then?

I'm not sure what the salary he would need to sign here for to make it work for us and him, but if we used the Detroit model of salary structure and say, no one will make more than Lidstrom, whoever our Lidstrom would be, we might be on to something.

As far as players you'd like to see us go after, I'm curious as to your thoughts on this. I've given you my big pipe dream but at the same time, it has some credibility to it if all things were to fall into place.

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Old
07-02-2010, 09:23 AM
  #14
Roman Yoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
This year, I'm not worried about locking up casual fan. I'm worried about locking up corporate fan. The flooding will hurt the casual fan and solidifying the corporate base will be the most important thing for this year to prepare for next year. The year that both the NFL and NBA are looking to lock-out strike. Tell me, what is casual fan going to do with zero NFL and Zero NBA games on the tv? What are they going to do when the only game in town is the NHL? (Pro. wise) Casual fan will come back in 2 years.
I'm sorry but how do you get corporate support? You have to get some new flashy toys.

Why do I feel like every year we have this chicken and egg talk?

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07-02-2010, 09:25 AM
  #15
deanwormer
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imagine if some of these folks were Hawks fans..... all that talent they had to dump and the grinders and unproven talent they got back .... these guys would be suicidal.... I think maybe some folks need to relax; we don't play with the $6mil men, we play with the next 2 tiers, where the talent isn't that great a dropoff but the money sure is. Our top six looks just as good as it has, if not better, then the post Liarpold years; with a break or two, we're gonna' be able to roll a top 9 and an energy line that is a true positive, not just "pesty". and it's only the 2nd day of FA signings - maybe we'll even sign someone....

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07-02-2010, 09:29 AM
  #16
Roman Yoshi
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imagine if some of these folks were Hawks fans..... all that talent they had to dump and the grinders and unproven talent they got back .... these guys would be suicidal.... I think maybe some folks need to relax; we don't play with the $6mil men, we play with the next 2 tiers, where the talent isn't that great a dropoff but the money sure is. Our top six looks just as good as it has, if not better, then the post Liarpold years; with a break or two, we're gonna' be able to roll a top 9 and an energy line that is a true positive, not just "pesty". and it's only the 2nd day of FA signings - maybe we'll even sign someone....
I hope that is a joke.

In the Liarpold years our third line had Radulov and for a short time Foppa on it...

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07-02-2010, 09:33 AM
  #17
BigFatCat999
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I hope that is a joke.

In the Liarpold years our third line had Radulov and for a short time Foppa on it...
And was financing a take over from Balls.

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07-02-2010, 09:40 AM
  #18
Roman Yoshi
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And was financing a take over from Balls.
That wasn't the original posters point.

That isn't my point either. I love the Arnott move, I love the Hamhuis move. I just wish we could do what every GM does, move the extra pieces that we have (goaltenders, defensemen) for what we need (scoring).

While I understand that we got KS for next to nothing, there is a reason we got him for next to nothing...

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07-02-2010, 09:49 AM
  #19
triggrman
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so when you're sitting there in October on a Tuesday night with 9k fans at Bridgestone Arena, remember that we saved a bunch of money by getting rid of Arnott and Hamhuis.

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07-02-2010, 09:53 AM
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so when you're sitting there in October on a Tuesday night with 9k fans at Bridgestone Arena, remember that we saved a bunch of money by getting rid of Arnott and Hamhuis.
The dire attendance predictions have happened every season .... yet paid levels keep increasing.

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07-02-2010, 09:58 AM
  #21
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Glenn, I'm not advocating we go out and toss money at one of the weak remaining FA forwards. While I agree that acquiring Kovalchuk would be a boon for the franchise, I understand that there's a good deal of risk involved, even with moving Dumont. Too much risk for Poile\ownership to commit to. That's fine...baby steps.

However, I do think there are realistic deals that we could make to bring in a proven scorer, deals that would entice most any franchise without being comprised of spare parts, or worse yet, pieces that we'd be devastated to lose.

The company line each year, after drafting at least 2 similarly-molded defensemen, has been that we're 'building assets.' That sounds great, if you think that those assets will be used to address other needs. If it means that Jon Blum, Ryan Ellis, Cody Franson...whomever...are used in a package to address the obvious proven scoring deficiency...I agree that the assets were used and managed properly. On the other hand, when we see these defensemen rushed into the NHL because yet another homegrown guy is now too expensive for us...that becomes disheartening.

Going back to trades...we have the material to land someone in the 27-30 range, making 3-4.5 million, and capable of contributing 25-30 goals. Might it involve parting ways with a Jon Blum or Ryan Ellis, in conjunct with a high pick and someone like Zach Budish? Yeah, it might...but we can afford that cost. We CAN afford it, but are we willing to afford it? That's the question.

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07-02-2010, 10:03 AM
  #22
triggrman
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The dire attendance predictions have happened every season .... yet paid levels keep increasing.
we'll see.

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07-02-2010, 10:08 AM
  #23
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we'll see.

I guess if you make the same prediction enough times, eventually it has to be right.

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07-02-2010, 10:10 AM
  #24
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Some people don't think everything Polie does is perfect-- sorry their opinion is different than yours. Que "the budget" and "Atleast we're better off than Columbus" responses...

Poile has a 25 year history of non-playoff success. Yes, part of that is with a new expansion team. And yes, he does have a limited budget to work with. But at this point, I'm looking for evidence that he can get us over this hump.

So here we are on the brink of having playoff success again... Our weaknesses? We had one of the worst PP an PK, and one of the lowest forward scoring corps. We dumped our most consistent scorer, so we are down even more offense. Currently, our solution to the problem is to add a much of unproven guys like Kositynen, Anderson, Parent on one-ways, combined with other prospects one-way contracts like O'Reilly and Sulzer.

The offseason isn't over. No one is freaking out. It's just come to be expected. There doesn't seem to be any evidence of improving the team, outside of hoping SEVERAL prospects have huge breakout years and play like vets.

Poile hasn't made a good trade since 2003 (Sullivan). Meanwhile, Chicago makes a few great trades like Sharp and Versteeg. The Coyotes make good trades for guys like Wolski, Upshall, among others. The Canucks pick up Erhoff for not much, Samulesson for relatively cheap, and Burrows for nothing. All were non-big money moves. All finished ahead of us too.

Maybe Kosistynen turns into a bonfide scoringline player. I think that's a HUGE maybe at this point.

But like I said, let's see what happens the rest of the offseason. But, I'm not expecting much...


Last edited by dulzhok: 07-02-2010 at 10:20 AM.
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07-02-2010, 10:12 AM
  #25
triggrman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
I guess if you make the same prediction enough times, eventually it has to be right.
yeah pull it up where I said before. Oh yeah, you can't.. BTW, tell me what you hear about ticket sales right now, all I've heard is we are not where we were last season.

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